Is Partition a Viable Option?

UPDATE: I thank you all for an interesting range of comments; there’s plenty of good discussion to read. However, I think most of you may have missed my primary question, which is NOT about what is likely to happen, but whether partition is a viable option in Western Europe.

I don’t have any idea what is likely to happen. I just don’t think partition à la India or Gaza is a viable option. It’s not just that I don’t think it will happen, but that it can’t possibly work in the event that some misguided government (or supra-national power) attempts to implement it.

On last night’s post about the BBC, RonaldB left a comment concerning the possible eventual partition of Britain into separate Muslim and non-Muslim states. That got me thinking about the issue of partition, which has been discussed here in the past from time to time.

The most Islamized country in Western Europe is France, so the first of any partitions is likely to occur there. Marseille in particular comes to mind. But Britain, Sweden, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Germany are close behind.

This was my comment in response:

One thing to bear in mind about partition: the new “stans” will consist primarily of urban residential areas, with no significant manufacturing plant or other productive assets. There will be no agricultural land, and the commercial base will be negligible. Unless the other side of the partition agrees to continue the delivery of jizya, the new emirates will be unable to support themselves. The kuffar would basically have to do what Israel does with Gaza: supply electricity and other necessities for free, or for a nominal charge.

I suppose a partition agreement could include the mandatory eviction of landowners from portions of prime arable land, which would then belong to the new entity. But even then, the new owners would hardly be likely to use it effectively — Muslims have a history of destroying agricultural land through bad husbandry; it seems to flow naturally from Islamic practices.

I don’t see any way in which partition could work for them. I think they will require full submission, with dhimmitude and/or enslavement for the former owners in perpetuity.

I can’t think of an outcome for all this that isn’t very, very ugly.

In recent times, we really only have three models for partition to draw on:

1.   India and Pakistan, 1947. Muslims were evacuated from India, and Hindus were evacuated from Pakistan. The process was violent, and more than a million people were killed.
2.   The Israeli Evacuation of Gaza, 2005. The Israelis simply removed themselves from the Gaza Strip, leaving all their infrastructure behind (which the “Palestinians” promptly destroyed). Since then the Israelis have been supplying electricity and arranging for the shipment of other necessities to Gaza, while Hamas has shot Qassam rockets into southern Israel.
3.   The remains of Yugoslavia, 1992-?. Ethnic cleansing — the driving out or slaughter of other groups by whatever group has numerical superiority in the local area. If the UN and NATO had not intervened, eventually three or four contiguous states (Croatian, Serbian, Bosniak, and possibly Kosovar) would have precipitated out of the chaos, although the final death toll might well have been much higher.

Even if Western Europe were willing to endure proportional casualties, the India/Pakistan option is not really viable. The Indians and Pakistanis (and Bangladeshis) included a substantial numbers of people with experience in agriculture, and ample arable land available for farms or pasturage. No Muslim population in Europe will have either of these resources. Even if the natives abjectly hand over their best farmland, the new territories will be unable to utilize it properly, and will not be able to support themselves. They will be dependent on continuous, massive handouts for their survival (just as they are now).

The Israelis are more high-minded than other Western countries in their treatment of their deadly enemies. Can you imagine, say, France carving out a sovereign enclave in Marseille or Clichy-Sous-Bois, and then supplying it with everything it needed, all while enduring terrorism and daily rocket attacks? No, it won’t happen.

Furthermore, Israeli policy towards Gaza is crafted under intense political pressure from the United States and other Western nations. Israel has repeatedly been unable to act according to its own interests thanks to that pressure. Absent such arm-twisting, I’m not certain that the Israelis would be so kind to the Palestinians.

So who would put pressure on Western Europe to play nicey-nice with their new neighbors after all the “two-state solutions” were implemented? The UN? The USA?

We’re left with Bosnia and Kosovo to look at as models, with a similar UN wild card thrown in to gum up the works. That outcome will be very ugly indeed.

There is, of course, a fourth option: total surrender. Acceptance of dhimmi status by the formerly sovereign nations of Western Europe. They may accept the rule of their Islamic overlords, feel themselves subdued, and offer up their jizya with willing submission.

Which outcome do you think is most likely?

157 thoughts on “Is Partition a Viable Option?

  1. My bet, with history as a precedent, would be more along the lines of a Balkans, only on steroids. As for the UN or anyone else interfering with that process? They will be toothless to do a bloody thing. The US will side with the Europeans and so will the Russians. Once the Europeans rip off that thin veneer of western civilization and get back to their ancestral roots, they will make the Balkans pale in comparison and no one from the 3rd world or leftist enablers will survive. Any takers on this bet?

    • >>The US will side with the Europeans and so will the Russians.

      No. the US will side with the emirs. And the Russians will be chortling with glee as they make great mischief, and I wouldn’t blame them.

      I think at first the leadership of the West European nations may try to appease the emirs and compel the native population to accept dhimmi status, this will finally be too much for a hardcore minority of natives and the West European political leaders will be assassinated, democracy will be overthrown and all hell will break loose. Nobody with a left/liberal opinion will dare raise his/her voice for generations.

      • Daniel, I respectfully disagree and I’ll tell you why, It won’t matter the politics of trying to make nice with those emirs, for the regular people will not stand for it and will side with our own European cousins. The European politicians one way or another will be swept to the side for trying to make nice with those same emirs as well, for the military and intelligence folks will see that writing on the wall and side with their own over the 3rd worlders, nature in action if you will, for nature is tribal. As too how that will come about? Well a couple of different scenarios come to mind, a 3rd worlder rapes/murders the wrong natives family member and said family member is trained in the arts of war and takes action and eliminates those who had anything to do with said rape/murder, thus setting off a whole series of events that leads to massive bloodshed that cannot be contained. 2) What I call the 2 per centers who as like minded individuals see what is happening around them and take extra judicial action, again, setting off a series of events that also too spiral completely out of anyone’s control leading to army interventions and groups arming themselves to the teeth and taking back their city block by bloc until all is secure and 3rd world free. As for the left, it will be very Darwinian where they are concerned.
        Now as for those pesky Russians, they too have a muslim problem and will see this as an opportunity to rid themselves of their muslim problem while overtly or sub rosa helping various nationalist groups, and the Russians will do this in complete Russian fashion by completely doing scorched earth tactics. So I do hope this does help in understanding what may come to pass in a very short period of time if events continue as they are.

        • yeah, the Russians will go scorched earth on their own Islamic minorities, and give significant aid to fellow Slavic nations to do the same. Plus give the Kurds a big boost to keep the Turks and Iranians busy. IF the Russians are smart, they’ll simply leave the Baltic states alone, using them as conduits to the West. Whether basic Russian paranoia and imperial ambitions would allow such restraint is questionable.

          And there’s the whole question of what the Chinese would be doing in the East while this goes on…

      • It depends on who is helming the ship of state. If it is a nationalist like Trump, we will side with the nationalists if Europe. If it is someone from the globalist camp, we will side with the EU project backstabbers.
        Until the proles of Europe deal with their elites and take their continent back.

        • I don’t know if I would bet my future on that.

          When Mr Trump does questionable things like setting up the Saudis with 350 billion in weapons deals to modernize their military, and talks endlessly about Shia Iran and was tricked into attacking Shia Syria, and has taken this long to kick out Islamist Brennan, I start wondering if he’s in over his head. He might be a nationalist but that doesn’t guarantee competence. I’m still waiting for him to clean house at home before getting us into any more international wars.

          • Random, What is completely amusing about the Saudis and the weapons deal is, the Saudis can’t fix or maintain those weapons systems and have to have western techs to do that work, so it is a plus for the US. As for Trump? He is far from being over his head, he is keeping us out of more wars if he can help it, his philosophy is let them kill each other and keep us out of it.

          • This is to the below since I cant respond any deeper apparently. I wanted to clarify a point.

            If we should be at war with anyone it should probably be the Saudis and Pakistan. According to Stephen Coughlin Pakistani generals circulated a memo asking whether carrying out a NUCLEAR FIRST STRIKE UPON THE USA was Shariah compliant and the answer came back yes. The orthodox, fundamentalist, Sunni types are far more of a threat than the Shia, and i’m pretty sure the Saudi’s could have their own nukes within months if they really wanted to.

            I’m not concerned about the long term logistical problems of the Saudis’ not maintaining their gear – that’s no different than the F14’s left to rot in Iran when the rapidly decaying computer boards (designed as such) went to pot. I’m concerned about us falling ever before we get that far.

            Things this country needs doing in order:

            First, purging MB infiltration of the govt including other alphabet soup agencies since that undermines everything else, also stopping collaboration of the media.[Redacted for brevity]

            Second. stopping ALL benefits, ALL middle east (and other communist) “immigration”. [Redacted for brevity]

            Third, actually taking a military posture with hostile political forces and that means orthodox Islam.
            We are making alliances that don’t make sense, especially when there is still MB infiltration within the US govt. I’m not against war, it just needs to be the right war that will actually solve the problems.

      • No. the US will side with the emirs.

        Uh, no. In fact, to put it more precisely, No. Way. In. Hell. If US leaders attempted to side with the emirs, they would very quickly find themselves out of office or worse. The closest to “siding with the emirs” they could get would be US aid in evacuating adherents of Islam from Europe back to their ancestral homelands. More likely would be simple neutrality.

        • How do you explain the US-led NATO intervention in Bosnia and Kosovo during the Yugoslavian civil wars on the side of the Muslims against the Serbs. The Serbs, by the way, showed great bravery in fighting with the US and the Allies during World War II. But, it seems, past friendship with the US counts for very little when you get venal or leftist government leaders in the US.

          • RonaldB, To explain the Balkans fiasco is simple, That was under that bloody Clinton and Madeline not so Bright with Weasly Clark, a General promoted beyond his capability. We should have left the Serbs and Croats sort out those bloody muslims while they had a chance.

        • Have you not forgotten the comment by General Wesley Clark?
          “There is no place in modern Europe for ethnically pure states. That’s a 19th century idea, and we are trying to transition into the 21st century, and we are going to do it with multiethnic states.”

          The US started this.

          • Correction: the globalists started this, and Clark just like Brennan was, and a number of others all over the alphabet soup agencies have been infiltrated, turned, coopted, coerced, armtwisted, corrupted, or tricked into being a part of things that have nothing to do with US nationalism.

            If the US cleaned house internally, and the states of Europe threw off the EU and NATO and UN nonsense, everything could probably still be reversed even this late in the game… but not at all much later, we really are down to the last couple years for anything to possibly turn around, maybe even in the last year. I can still see a way back from here but not any further.

            The real battle is over political will when half a population wont even vote anymore (whether the US or elsewhere) and half of those who do are corrupted by nonsense and lies. Most people are just told it’s inevitable, “lay down GI, lay down GI, stop fighting, stop resisting”, whether the enemy is the communists or the Islamists or the globalists or anything else, but if people do that then they are as good as dead. I wont abandon my post if others dont but I wont fight for corpses who already gave up either, and I really do think we are going to see a microcosm of the entire future of the next few decades just over the next year or three. ie – whether people will put up with the vote fraud already planned to swing the US back democratic by this November. Trump got in because they didn’t swing the fraud hard enough, they wont make the same mistake twice – and the next time will be the cincher starting us back towards freedom, or locking us in to the downward spiral.

            Thats all I have to say it’s in your court.

  2. Option 3 is the most likely in my opinion. I am confident in this outcome because of several factors; the continued explosive muslim population growth in Europe through births and invasion, the unwillingness and or inability of European political systems to deal with this issue, and lastly, continued and increasingly violent muslim provocations of violence and rape leading to vigilantism and reprisals from native Europeans which escalates into ethnic cleansing and all-out warfare while European governments and NATO are unable to reassert control or authority.

    Human nature is human nature, and at some point, there will be vigilantism and reprisals precisely because the existing law enforcement and judicial system are unwilling and incapable of maintaining order, and catching, prosecuting, and punishing those who flout it. And the same governments who are so indecisive in dealing with muslim violence will also be indecisive and ineffective in dealing with native European violence against muslims when they finally do fight back. By that time, while the political will might be there to punish native Europeans who harm muslims, the rank and file of the military and law enforcement are not likely to follow orders, or if they do, to follow them with much enthusiasm and impartiality.

    While population growth ensures muslims will eventually outnumber native Europeans, their provocations will push Europe into ethnic cleansing long before they ever achieve numerical superiority. In simpler words, they tried to boil the frog too rapidly. And when European natives do begin to fight back, the muslim inability to back down will lead to escalation and more ghastly atrocities against native Europeans that will compel the undecided or previously invader-welcoming natives to side with their brethren or risk being targeted as enemy sympathizers and collaborators.

    The tragedy is that governments, having created this mess and through inability or unwillingness to stop the invasion and return the invaders back to their own lands, are signing the death warrants of not only millions of Europeans, but also of the millions of invaders and anyone else who does not look like a native European or otherwise immigrated legally and integrated into European life since the end of WW2.

    • while the political will might be there to punish native Europeans who harm muslims, the rank and file of the military and law enforcement are not likely to follow orders.

      I wish you were right; I would will it if I could. But the rank-and-file will be protecting their paychecks, pensions, and families so they won’t stray from the reservation. They’ll have no problem mowing down their countrymen if called on to do so…

      …but we’re a long way from there. And if it ever comes to the point that the rank-and-file have nothing left to lose (pay, pension, etc.), then the game changes irrevocably. However, the welfare state has put paid to any such insurrection.

      • When the time comes the rank-and-file will realize that all has been lost including their pay cheques and pensions, and their families are freezing in the dark, the stores are empty as are the ATMs.
        Believe me they will choose, and they will choose wisely.
        As you said earlier;

        “People may lie out loud, but fewer of them lie to themselves. In that deep, dark place in the mind where it is always three o’clock in the morning, people tell themselves the truth.”

    • I look at what is happening in South Africa. My bet is non-Muslims would flee to the Visagrad countries and Russia. Partition is about geography but geography means absolutely nothing if slavery is the primary outcome. And if people are forced to flee, then there will be a world war to follow as no one could contain the anger.

      I would not want to be a Muslim in a debased London when the missiles hit. There would be total war with no surrender. Much like it was in WW1, fight too exhaustion of the entire populations of Western European nations.

      • Before they flee the situation will be bad and only those with enough money will flee . The rest will be too poor or have responsibilities at home as well as the hardcore true patriots .
        Alternatively, it is a gradual process and people are already looking elsewhere and moving . If 4 million SAn whites cant return to Europe then how the heck can 70 million western Europeans move east , assuming that a large part are too poor or wish to fight and stay on home turf? Those politicians at home who cause this must be [intemperate imperative redacted] as an example to others not to mess with the publics lives and money while the invaders must be encouraged to leave using the same method …………slowly. ( psychological )
        Remember , infrastructure is sorely lacking in any host country for such a vast migration in such a short time and most people wont go unless they are sure there is a place for them elsewhere in the east of Europe . Otherwise winter is a devil to those sleeping outside.

        • My belief is that the welfare state will collapse and rather quickly if partition is proposed. Economics are meaningless in that event – look at Venezuela and its hyperinflation or South Africa with its racist genocidal land grab. There is a crisis inflection point in which fear leads to panic, and panic leads to anarchy.

          The barbarians are at the gate and they really don’t care whether Rome survives.

    • … starts to look like a peaceful outcome, compared to the other options.

      But with the ever-increasing demographics, it would only work for a short time, 50-100 years at MOST.

      • I’ll have more to say on the matter at the bottom of the comments, but consider that one of the benefits of apartheid is that it did not give equal political representation to South African blacks, and achieved a sort of internal partition. By denying an equal vote to the South African blacks, apartheid allowed the white population to maintain the country according to European, rather than black African, values. The result was a vast creation of material wealth that benefited blacks as well as the whites. The black population expanded 800% under the apartheid regime, with black hospitals, schools and universities supported by the white regime.

        To emphasize, the important aspect of apartheid was, it did not allow a black-controlled government or political process, even though blacks were the numerical majority. Also, the separation of living areas allowed the more productive whites to live relatively safely.

        I should mention in passing that apartheid under the Boers was more informal and flexible than it was under British rule. The British ruled South Africa after they won the Boer War by committing genocide on the Boer civilians and then stealing the gold mines, which was the motivation for the British attack on South Africa in the first place.

  3. I think this would be a good idea for Britain. They could draw the partion line down the centre of the English Channel – all to the north would be for the British and all to the south for the Muslims. You would not need the UN to patrol it, just the RN.

  4. If you’re going to go back to 1947, perhaps you should also include the illicit partition of Mandatory Palestine in 1921 into cis-Jordanian and trans-Jordanian Palestine, which was followed in 1946 by the less than legitimate establishment of the nation of Jordan on the trans-Jordanian part, and then in 1948 followed by the partition of cis-Jordanian Palestine into a Jewish state and an Arab state. That was accepted by Israel and rejected by all her neighbors and their allies.

  5. “I can’t think of an outcome for all this that isn’t very, very ugly.

    “In recent times, we really only have three models for partition to draw on”

    As wimpy and [feminized] as W.European men seem to be, I don’t think a 4th option is off the table. Going Full Medieval. When it comes to Them v. Us, I’m reminded of a line from the Patton screenplay, “When you put your hand into a bunch of goo that a moment before was your best friend’s face, you’ll know what to do.”

    Muslims do not respect borders. Never have. Israel’s walls are a response to the utter disregard Muslims have for the non-Muslims. There is no way of creating Muslim-only zones in the highly urbanized areas Europe that will keep them in place. Going Medieval sounds pretty ugly today; it won’t if things in Europe continue their present course.

    • Full Medieval or Full Roman– see Third Punic War and what happened to Carthage in 146 B.C., and the Third Servile War (the one that Rome waged against Spartacus and his army of escaped slaves), which ended with 6000 of the rebels crucified along the Via Appia in 71 B.C. And the Romans were certainly Western Europeans.

      As for partition as a strategy, Hadrian’s Wall and the Antonine Wall further north were not very successful in preventing the tribes of what is now Scotland from migrating southward after the second century A.D.

      • Actually, The walls were successful as long as they were manned and supplied. Government failure at home, (ie: Rome), caused the Walls to become undermanned and under-supplied, (money, troops, etc), which allowed the “Barbarians” to get through more and more. Finally, when the Legions were withdrawn completely, the damage was down.
        Wars are not generally lost by the troops, but by lack of will by those at home to finish it.

  6. “Is Partition a Viable Option?”
    When you think to partition as option….you lost everything. You are dead already.

    “So who would put pressure on Western Europe to play nicey-nice with their new neighbors after all the “two-state solutions” were implemented?”

    when they get there, to partition….West Europe will put that pressure on own. Just as today. It is west Europe inventing new rules against own interests.

    As I see the facts from today looking back in time, East Europe had the bad luck and the good luck of communism. It was a bad time, but also in that time, East Europe understood that nice words don’t necessarily mean good intentions. Many times, the opposite. So…while west Europe was put to moral/intellectual/cultural sleep, East Europe had to fight for everyday food and the right to think. During communism east Europe learned to survive, to fight.

    After 70 years of brainwashing in the west, where the basic instinct of self-defense has been forbidden, bringing the idea of partition as a possibility…from my point of view…means accepting your own death without making the slightest effort to defend yourself.

    I think is dangerous to talk about this subject. It is like a person already condemned to death and given time to get used to the idea. Instead of thinking how to avoid losing the future, how to eliminate the danger, people will lie to themselves that this can be a solution.

    • I think is dangerous to talk about this subject.

      People may lie out loud, but fewer of them lie to themselves. In that deep, dark place in the mind where it is always three o’clock in the morning, people tell themselves the truth.

      At any rate, this is simply a thought experiment. If we cannot dare to think about something, we might as well be dead. There are worse things than dying and putting blinders on the mind is one of them. That’s what the left wants to do.

    • I agree. Exercising one’s brain about possible partition solutions is only for those who have given up. Yes, I know—one must be pro-active, plan ahead, have a back-up plan, but this is not the way to be thinking. Yes, the situation in the UK is approaching dire, but there are still many who “get it” —and, it seems that many more are “getting it” every day.

      But, forcing us to think of a solution is a good way to wake up a sleeping population. Perhaps that’s what needed in the UK: a realistic look at the future given present population trends and the nature of Islam to seek dominance.

      • Thinking about partition may be a tactical, and even strategic (of indirect approach… see lifell hart). Allow your enemies to be the nay-sayers and attack the peace-loving compromiser. Then beat the […] out of them. The Israelis did that out of no choice on 1948-1949 and continued the task in 1967. There is a reason why the lefties hate them.

    • The virtue of partition is that it allows a relatively homogeneous political region. This actually enhances the value of democracy, as you can have a representative government that is not perpetually paralyzed by the conflict of parties with completely different values.

      As Baron and others pointed out, the only alternative to partition is expulsion or surrender.

      I’ll preview my future comments by saying there are strong moral and practical reasons for preferring partition. And partitioning is not simply giving up. Victory is having an independent state under the political control of people who share your values and which gives people intellectual and financial freedom to look after their own interests.

      • I can’t argue against the virtues of partition, if only it could be accomplished. My assertion here is that partition in Western Europe is simply not doable — the Muslim population is urban, and incapable of sustaining itself independently. Of necessity it must remain parasitic upon the kuffar.

        • There are no virtues of partition with islam because the Earth is finite. The balkanization of Europe (and Canada, Australia, USA, Russia etc.) would be no more than a band aid on a gaping wound, because the situation would repeat in the near future, but the native Europeans (or Canadians et. al.) would be in an even weaker position position to fight islam than they have ever been before. Islam will continue to expand and attack. Surrendering your land and resources to islam might buy you a short break from their attacks, but it will leave you weaker to fight next time. The best we can hope for is an attempt at a Reconquista (with an unpredictable ending, but at least there’s a chance at victory), because I just don’t see defeating islam possible. (European) Christians have had many (better) chances to defeat islam for good, but division and infighting have stood in the way of that. Not much has changed.

          • It seems once Islam becomes established in a country, it’s very, very hard to push it back. It can be done, as the Reconquista shows, but that is a rare case. Another case is the country of Israel, which actually got its start in cooperation with the Ottoman officials, who liked the payments they got from the Zionists.

            But, it seems the best strategy for taking back territory from the Muslims is not an extensive battlefront, but a slow process of renationalization. In other words, the reconquerers have got to view the land they take as their land, rather than a foreign conquest.

            Countries and regions defending their territories from Islamic invasion were far more successful, though not always. The Serbian Kosovans and Bosnians in the Yugoslavian civil wars were about to successfully carve out their own territories as part of an ethnic Serbia, when NATO intervened with an extensive bombing campaign. The point is that even with the ethnic cleansing, the territory the Serbs were about to gain was actually mainly Serb.

            So, I’m arguing that the first step is to establish a beachhead in territory mainly European national and gradually expand outward. The Crusades ran afoul partly because they tried to take back extensive territories in a region that was at the time overwhelmingly Muslim, and so had vastly overextended lines of communication, supply and support.

            The exact opposite occurred during the centuries-long attack on the Byzantine Empire. The Ottomans had failure after failure in capturing the capital city, but constantly took over more territory until there was very little for the Byzantines to defend.

    • Stefan cel Mare, I see your points. By all means talk away, but talk of partition is talk of battle lines drawn in a country already lost. The biggest partition omitted here is the Iron Curtain which inadvertently immunized those east of it from the neoMarxism disease growing west of it. Now, the Iron Curtain is a Postmodern Curtain hung by the Redgreens in the vaccum post-Soviet. From the V4 vantage, it is embroidered with a burka, a hammer, and a sickle.

      • The big partition is when people will have to gather young virgin girls from their own families and send them to the muslims in order to buy temporary peace, in the new partitioned Europe.

  7. 5-th option..Occupation Western Caliphates in making by CEE Countrys and Nations as a “preventive measures” ,to protect own existence ?..For example ,Poland occupying Germany along Limes Sorabicus Sorabicus
    As it sounds, this may happen..There is nothing impossible for the New History

    • Historically, the occupation of foreign countries has served as a massive mechanism for foreign nationals of the occupied countries to migrate into the mother country.

      In other words, you occupy Afghanistan, then look to having hundreds of thousands of Afghans immigrate into the US on some pretext or another of being “allied” with US forces.

      • Precisely.
        Those fortune Germans ,”occupied ” by Poles would soon after enjoying and appreciate “red pill” served them by Poles,Hungarians,Romanian will be Very beneficial for them…
        After all ,to be under Islamic yoke is much worse…
        They were in the past in this point and it was ok..
        Limes Sarabicus and Limes Saxoniae is acknowledged Historic,Ethnic and cultural division of Europe…

  8. The world must learn fast to defend against own death and eventually extend the self defense instinct to attack the aggressor. Just like the immune system. First, defense…then identify the aggressor and last step…eliminate the aggressor. Any other option is just a slow death. With deadly pain every second until death.

  9. Yugoslavia was the first test at a large scale inside Europe. Reaction of europeans was carefully observed. After this test ended, the experiment got the green light to continue at a continental scale. Europeans are incapable to feel the pain of their brothers. They can be manipulated against their brothers. And those feeling that pain, trying to help, were put to the corner as “bad”. All that “illegal” help from Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary to Serbia was presented as criminal activity.

    • Archaeological excavations of the mass graves from the Yugo civil wars of 1992 on reveal the number of bodies was smaller than claimed in the neocon publications such as the Wall Street Journal, and that most were males of military age. In other words, the mass slaughters attributed to the Serbs were either results of actual military engagements, or a preventive tact which, while immoral against prisoners, was not a wholesale ethnic slaughter.

      The interventions in the civil war was by a UN whose biggest bloc is comprised of Islamic States actively pursuing universal sharia law, and by a NATO led by a Clinton administration whose depth of financial corruption was not even envisioned at the time. The war was supported by neocon outlets like the Wall Street Journal, whose editorials constantly focused on the siege of Sarajevo, admittedly pretty horrific, and the Western orientation of the Muslim in Bosnia.

      NATO and the US pretty much destroyed Serbia and Serbian Bosnia through massive bombing campaigns. For what? The alternative would likely have been that populations would have been moved (not slaughtered) and Serbia would be Serbian, with additions to its territory of the Serbian parts of the neighboring Bosnia and Kosovo, and the rest of those countries more-or-less completely Muslim.

      I see the intervention in the Yugoslavian Wars as a huge, unjustified crime, which resulted in the dramatic weakening and destruction of Serbia, which would otherwise have been in the leadership of the East European countries resisting Muslim and African migration and the tyranny of the EU>

      • The Clintons would sell anything not nailed down, and even then they would use a nail puller. Hillary sold American secrets in a grand pay for play scheme. The emirs of oil know this. Significantly, President Trump is undercutting the power of the emirs by expanding the USA as an oil supplier.

  10. “Which outcome do you think is most likely?”

    Where is it written that the extraordinarily technically sophisticated, prosperous Western World, will go on being that, functioning at that level forever? The Romans of the Eastern Roman Empire, as late as 500 AD, could not imagine that for all practical purposes the Roman Empire would cease to exist in a hundred years. Does this mean that Europe and perhaps North America will go the way of Rome? My guess is no. I do believe that the Centers: Paris, Berlin, London: the places where our decrepit ruling class prevails, may very well submit to Islam. Which will only precipitate the shattering of the nation states of Europe and the birth of innumerable redoubts of resistance to accursed Islam. Europe will return to being fractured; as it was in the Dark Ages after Rome fell. Prosperity will be over, kaput. Suffering immense. Bloodletting immense. But there WILL BE A FIGHT.

    The above, for what it’s worth, is my purely speculative answer to a purely speculative question.

  11. Door number four seems inevitable Baron. At least the Israelis fight back, but they don’t have the demographic clout to send the muslims back to the Hell Hole they came from. Last week I had lunch with a longtime friend(who I gave my copy of the Koran twenty years ago to),but it had no lasting effect on her. And she had never heard of Huma Abedin, or the Muslim Brotherhood, or the assasination of Anwar Sadat by their hand, which they did because he signed a peace treaty with Israel. I have one friend who knows a lot about Islam, but who has given up. I thought America woke up after 9/11, but they rolled over and went back to sleep. (Maybe we can encourage the Muslims to attack Pearl Harbor.)

    • Americans did wake up after 9/11 but they were put back to sleep due to the MB’s infiltration of everything from about 2005 onwards, based on what Stephen Coughlin and John Guandolo talked about. The merging of the left and Islam has tricked the youth, confused the parents, and frustrated the elders and because things have been protected from up on high for more than a decade nobody can believe whats happening right in front of their face. If the truth were not only told on the news but on all levels of government internal training the way it used to be we wouldn’t be dealing with this crap.

  12. re:Stefan cel Mare..
    Excellent analyzes ! But unfortunately They are not able to understand it..I do..i/m Pole..
    ps. What’s killing “West” is Moral Cowardliness…
    Lack of Moral Courage in theirs society and Life is observed and exploited by Savages..
    You and I live long enough among them to know that..
    So…Another fall of “Roman Empire” from the same reason…Pathetic…Regards..
    ps. Yalta ,Potsdam and Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact set the outcome for what happening nowadays in Europe..We will be fine..

  13. I predict that it will end in refugees and genocide-like “happenings”.
    I just don’t know whom the perpetrators, and whom the victims will be.

    I think that it’s a very likely outcome that by the time that the chips are down, those Muslims living in the USA (and Israel) will thank their lucky star to live where they do, instead of Europe or the Arab world. I think that Europeans are capable of another genocide. I actually agree with the Muslims who are afraid of this. It *is* a very legitimate worry.

    It can just as easily happen the other way, however: that Western Europe will be Islamised in what could amount to a genocide of native Europeans. Ask the Copts in Egypt how they’ve been liking it, for example. This option will be much slower than the first.

    So for outright rapid and all-encompassing brutality potential, I’d put my money on native Europeans rather that Muslims. If only because they’re capable of being more organised and “efficient” about it, as the Holocaust has proven. But anything is possible… including mass conversions of native Europeans, looking to join the “victor” and leading to an “efficiency” previously unheard of by Islamic regimes.

    I worry about French and English nukes.

    • Thanks for mentioning what happened to Egypt.

      The sliver of a remnant of Europeans Afterwards will have some strange name as do the Copts now. And they will tend to be more educated, to prosper within their enclaves, and to have their daughters stolen and their people beaten up, with houses set afire, after Friday services at the mosque.

      • I believe that if the path doesn’t change, Egypt shows what the end result will be and the parallel would be nearly identical.

        The Islamisation of Turkey (not the current one, but the historical one), culminating in the “removal” of various minorities, might be even more accurate, however.

        Either isn’t good.

    • In 1492, the stupid monarchs of spain expeled the Jews. The turkish Sultan was smart enough to take them. They provided organization. Do not under-estimate the muslims. What they don’t have they may acquire

      • My reading of history is that the Spanish monarchy was not particularly enthusiastic about expelling the Jews but felt they had little choice, as the Jews were viewed by many Spaniards as having collaborated with the Muslim occupiers.

        Both Jews and Muslims were expelled, unless they converted to Christianity. Both Muslims and “Converso” Jews maintained their own religion secretly, with the difference being that the Muslims actively worked to subvert Spanish society, wile the Jewish Conversos only wished to maintain their traditions.

        In the seventeenth century, the Spanish government had enough of the subversion and disruption by the Muslim “converts” and expelled the lot of them.

        The Inquisition, attracted at the prospect of confiscating the wealth of secret Jews, continued to persecute the secret Jews, even establishing branches in the “New World”.

        Parenthetically, I had the privilege of personally hearing the story of a “Converso” from Mexico who discovered that the rituals her family practiced in secret were actually traditional Jewish rituals. She immigrated to the US and converted formally to Judaism.

  14. The problem is the rapidly shifting demographic of Europe to the disadvantage of the natives. Even if PC politicians and reporters and academics try to deceive us with statistics that “we” are still the overall majority, they deliberately fail to mention six important facts:
    – The native Europeans are on average much older that the “culture-enrichers”, hence less able to fight in case if civil war and more vulnerable. In addition, being older on average also provides fewer chances of putting offspring in the world.
    – Even the younger Europeans have fewer children on average than the “culture-enrichers”
    – The native Europeans are more civilized in dealing with conflict, less often armed, and more politically divided, with large groups still paying tribute to the self-destructive PC multi-culti ideology.
    – In many countries, the naturalized “culture-enrichers” with a passport of a European country are wrongly counted in as “European”, even though acquiring a new passport does not change one’s mindset, beliefs or mentality.
    – The”culture-enrichers” who reside in Europe illegally don’t show up in any statistic, but they surely dominate large areas of the big cities, and increasinly even smaller towns.
    – The large masses of “culture-enrichers”which are expected to invade Europe from Africa and the Middle-East in the next years ahead, cannot be counted into contemporary statistics either, but they are a factor that we should reckon with if we want a chance to survive.
    So the situation is more urgent than most people (dare to) realize.
    e.If Europeans wake up in time, unite -including the Central- and Eastern Europeans, who still pose a real majority in their own countries, before becoming the minority on the entire continent, and drop their pusillanimous PC attitude, we may have two better options.
    – The Reconquista option: Drive them back to where they came from.
    That would be the best, but of that wouldn’t work, there is still
    – The Russian or Chinese option: Make then obey OUR laws by showing strength and determination, the only language they understand.
    But for one those two better options to succeed, a lot of work will need to be done.

    • I agree with your last option, and I think this can be implemented quite simply by banning Islam. Deport all the Imams, destroy all the mosques, and tell the Muslims to obey the Law or leave with a boot up the backside.

      But, as you say, this must be done with “strength and determination, the only language they understand”. Preaching or practising Islam must incur instant deportation or life imprisonment in a remote, Muslim-only jail. No exceptions.

      I believe this could work because I believe most Muslims, while not peaceful, are passive, and will very likely just keep their heads down and collect their welfare. We may even be surprised at how many will welcome being released from the vicious serfdom of Islam. There is a senior Imam on record as justifying death for apostasy on the grounds that without it all the Muslims would leave and there would be no Islam!

      Islam is the enemy of all of us, perhaps particularly the Muslims, so it is Islam that should be banned, not the poor souls who have already been brainwashed by it, and who show us what sub-human misery awaits us if we also submit.

      But where is the man man enough to make and implement such a bold decision? Who can stand up to not only the violent Muslims but also the Common Purpose Fifth Columnists that have infiltrated virtually all the apparatus of State in certainly Britain and probably all through the EU? Not to mention the screeching Liberal-Fascists; although I suspect they will squash quite easily in the face of the ferocity that will be needed for the others.

      If “cometh the hour, cometh the man”, then we will have to accept that such a man – man enough to deal ruthlessly with all that – will not be a fragile pussycat; with all that that could potentially entail.

      • ” I believe most Muslims, while not peaceful, are passive, and will very likely just keep their heads down and collect their welfare. We may even be surprised at how many will welcome being released from the vicious serfdom of Islam. ”

        You’re making a lot of assumptions here.

        You’re assuming you can speak for the majority, or sizable minority of Muslims.

        Here’s a video of Russia showing the Muslims who’s boss:

        There is a huge problem in any representative society. Muslims vote as a bloc, giving them an extraordinary power in the political process. Muslims leverage this power for public funding of Muslim institutions, such as Muslim “charter” schools and for the suppression of anti-Islamicc views.

        • I don’t presume to speak for Muslims. I simply look at the situation, consider it in relation to what I have researched, then decide what I think is the most likely outcome given a particular action.

          It seems to me that given the 24/7, cradle-to-grave brainwashing that Muslims suffer, the crucial part that the mosques play in this, and the fact that the vast majority of them clearly know nothing about Islam other than what they are fed by their Imams, that demolishing the mosques and deporting the Imams will leave them in a serious Islamic limbo.

          They do not bloc vote of their own accord, they do so on the direct orders of their Imams. The farce over the arrest of Geert Wilders for ‘hate crime’, when it was discovered that every letter of complaint had been printed in the same mosque and signed by every member of that mosque, most of whom could neither read nor write, illustrates that perfectly. There weren’t hundreds of complaints against Wilders, there was one – from the Imam.

          Without a mosque and its attendant raving, threatening Imam, Muslims will be as headless chickens: they will not know what to do next. There will be no intimidating street prayers; no organised bloc vote, no enforced burkas or FGM; nothing for Muslims to fear and no-one for them to obey. There will, de facto, be no Islam. And all without need for pogroms, mass deportations or civil war. Any Muslim that steps out of line will be instantly arrested and removed from society.

          I have yet to encounter a proposed solution that comes anywhere near likely to achieve what this extraordinarily simple action could, in my opinion do, with an absolute minimum of bloodshed. It is like fighting a fire – take away the heat and it will go out, however much fuel there may be still lying about. Muslims are just the fuel; the heat comes from the Imams in the mosques. Take them away.

          • Interestingly, the force conversion and monitoring of Muslim converts was carried out almost to the letter of your description in Spain, after the final expulsion of the Muslim rulers by the Christian monarchy in 1492.

            The Muslims, like the Jews, were forced to either convert to Christianity or leave. And like many Jews, they maintained their Islamic religion in secret. These secret Muslims were called Moriscos.

            The central question concerning your thesis is whether the “former” Muslims, defangged and not able to engage in any organized or public prayer or organization, represented a danger to Spain. I read an article a while back (cannot recall where now) that claimed the converted Muslims engaged in subverting Spanish society to the extent they were finally completely expelled in the 17th century. But the articles I was able to pull up now with Google and DuckDuckGo slant towards the view that the Moriscos were sincere and productive and their expulsion was unjustified.

            I’m not going to research the topic further, but I would suggest that you could do the research and either find evidence supporting your proposal, or evidence that it wouldn’t work.

            As a note, I found that DuckDuckGo was a better search engine for this question than Google. Google is so loaded with PC filters, you can miss a lot of non-PC references.

          • @RonaldB
            I think it is tempting to over-examine this situation, to the point where no-one actually does anything because there is too much information to analyse; and usually endless minor objections to the clearly necessary plan.

            I know nothing about the history of Spain to which you refer, other than the fact that it was nearly 600 years ago in another time and place.

            I do know a bit about honeybees, and they have a simple method of dealing with visitors: those that pose a threat to their colony are repelled without mercy; those that arrive laden with nectar or pollen are let in.

            I think there is a simple lesson here for us. Immigrants who contribute to a nation’s culture should be welcomed; those that threaten the culture should be thrown out. Otherwise Western liberal civilisation will be destroyed, ironically, through its very liberalism.

            There are times when the horse must be chosen for the course, and this current course will certainly defeat the soft, liberal nag. I do not think I need years of detailed research to figure that out. I see what I see; as do my bees. They put guards on the door, not housekeepers.

    • Sometimes people don’t see their original comment and think it hasn’t gone through. In other cases, some comments disappear and we don’t know why…

      • Yes. I tried twice in an earlier post, then a third time here and all vanished. So, try with different username & email to see if I am blocked. Nothing fishy. Everything seems to have now appeared. Sorry for the confusion.

        • Perhaps you didn’t know that comments are “moderated”? That means they don’t go in until the B or I have read and approved them. If we’re eating supper, or in the garden, or simply sleeping (don’t forget the time differences), then it might be hours before your comment sees the light of day. It’s our first task on arising, but there’s no way for you to know that.

          • I haven’t commented for a while but I seem to recollect a comment would sit with an “Awaiting moderation” message, not just vanish completely. I will, however, wait more patiently in future.

          • Previously when I commented my comment would appear immediately with the byline “your comment is awaiting moderation” I assume I would be the only one seeing my own comment and it would tell me my comment has been entered into the system.
            Lately this is not happening anymore.
            Also previously my name and email would be automatically filled out on the comment screen.
            Not anymore. I now have to enter them manually.

          • Yes, a lot of people are saying similar things. I don’t know what’s wrong — the comment system on WordPress is a mystery to me.

  15. Partition is surrender. Plain and simple. And it is lethal.

    2024 – We Brits will you Muzzies 24% of our land
    2041 – We Brits will give you Muzzies 37% of our land
    2065 – We Brits will give you 98% of our land

    see how this works.

  16. Partition is surrender – the Israeli’s have figured this out

    Land for Peace is surrender.

    • Funny thing.

      The Israelis have embraced partition quite effectively. They kept the Palestinians out, and let them rule themselves in their own enclaves. They kept Israel, while Jordan, the PLA and Hamas brought in the anti-Israel elements. It causes constant friction, but it works so far.

      • No they didn’t – they turned over Gaza and left – that was surrender by Sharon.

  17. Partition is not a viable option. There’s no way at all that it would work. There would be no peace, only continual strife and aggression. It’s known from history that Islam cannot co-exist with any other civilization. The problems would mount until the whole arrangement would topple. The border would be continually breached, disputes would arise at the slightest provocation, nothing could be shared—not resources, nor infrastructure, nor institutions. Such a scenario would only be a prelude to major conflict.

    Think of Turkey and how it “co-exists” with its neighbours. Every day brings some new dispute or aggression. That’s how it would be if Britain were to be partitioned into a Muslim and a non-Muslim state. But at least Turkey has an economy that actually produces useful commodities and has an agricultural sector that could feed the whole country if necessary. Any newly-partitioned Muslim state carved out from the existing UK would be totally without the means to generate a productive economy or look after its people. It would immediately be looking for handouts, and would follow the example of the Palestinian Authority in making this a permanent condition.

    Partition is not an option.

    • Consider this fact:
      Gaza and the West Bank Palestine are indeed economic basket cases, dependent on Western and Israel aid.

      But, the partition allowed the Jews and Westernized Christians to control the economic and political process in Israel, giving them the freedom and incentive to more than make up for the economic drag of having to prop up Muslim states.

      Sometimes, you have to be satisfied with an imperfect solution whose only virtue is that it works.

      • Ronald B, There is nothing moral about allowing your enemies the means of which to attack you, and bleed you dry. There cannot be peace without total Victory. The Israeli’s know that at some point they will have to destroy the savages.

        • G – absolutely! Muslims do three things effectively: whine, breed, and attack! Gaza grows more complicated and populated with each passing day because of overbreeding! Same thing is happening in Northern India and the Horn of Africa. I’m old enough to know that “Feed the hungry children” charities only bandaids the breeding problems. Israel is roughly the size of New Jersey. The OIC now has 58 Muslim countries. Yet liberals, UN and other leftist groups cry fowl and protest Israel’s “inhumane treatment” of Palestinians. These fake inhabitants were suppose to join other Arabs in Jordan seventy years ago! Partition is another bandaid because as previously stated, Muslims do not honor peace agreements nor respect boundaries or borders. They continue to breed, expand, and conquer by the womb! It’s like being invaded by a swarm of locusts who only eat, destroy and move on to greener pastures!

          • CL North. Well said. I am very aware of them breeding like rats in these places and they will come here like the locusts they are. The amusing thing about those muslims moving to Jordan is, they tried to overthrow ole King Hussein, who then promptly had over 30,000 Purged in a month, hence the name Black September.

          • So the “rats” will tranmogrify into locusts before they get here??

            I’m happy to meet another metaphor mixer. It’s my favorite sin.

  18. Have we all forgotten several THOUSAND years of human history???


    Conflict is the NORM, boys and girls. This brief post-’45 pause ain’t a-gonna last–not with the present onslaught — regardless of our present but declining ‘gutmenchen’ support.

    “Numbers” mean very little on the modern battlefield. Huge numbers of invading non-productive consuming mouths gape like fledgeling birds wanting more, MORE, EVER-MORE! How d’ya think that plays for even the NEAR future?

    From whence commeth all the goodies? Who (willingly) pays?

    BTW–these (hostile) mouths are conveniently jam-packed in easily-cauterized chunks of Europe’s largest cities. Just say’in…….

    This situation is what was once referred to as a TARGET-RICH ENVIRONMENT.

    When push comes to shove (AS IT ALWAYS DOES), the invaders’ shield of the national gendarme will eventually crumble; and that “thin veneer” of civilization with it.

    Call it “gen–OH—side” for lack of a better term. Nothing new to us homo-sapeen types on the third ball of mud from the Sun.

    • “Easily cauterised chunks”, Flintlock? I feel Ralph McTell coming on:

      “Let me take you by the hand, and lead you through the streets of London;
      I’ll show you something to make you change your mind.”

      I’m in the north of the Borough of Southwark- I can see the flag on the Houses of Paliament from outside; there are many Muslims here, but by no means a majority. Are the rest of us to be collateral damage?

      • As an old artilleryman–I can assure you that ‘collateral damage’ is the term we used.
        The blast radius of our 155 shells was about fifty meters–each. Of course the battery (6 guns) fires as a unit and often many more times than just that once. Hence the “battery three” or “battery six”–but in your case it will most likely be what’s called “sustained fire”. Trust me, you do NOT want to be around then.
        Do you think the Firing Battery–or it’s commander (ME) give one hoot in hell if there are some ‘good guys’ residing in that TARGET RICH environment???
        Lemmie clue you in–WE KNOW that some are there. WE no longer care. It is just not a factor anymore. It is not our job.
        That’s called “WAR”–and one of the reasons why it’s referred to as ‘hell’.

        My free advice–and worth every penny, too–get out of Dodge while you still can.

        • I’m tempted to make a reply which wouldn’t get past the moderators. More practically, I believe the military of most civilised countries has moved on since you served, the Israelis being a good example.

          • Mark H. Your high moral ground is only going to serve you well by being buried in it. Get used to the idea that war is coming and when it does, you are either sheep or a wolf. A stiff upper lip and a cup of tea isn’t going to cut it any longer. As for the Israelis, they are just waiting for the day they can finally destroy those bloody savages once and for all time, that is why Carthage works.

          • G (below?)- There’s a reason the Israelis show such restraint: it’s the high standard of morality you criticise me for, and which is so lacking in their enemies.

          • Israel–most likely due to malign EUropean influence–PRESERVES the state of islam’s assault on its existence by its own ‘onward movement’. Still, I detect movement towards sanity.
            Nations fighting ‘your way’ we call by the name:
            L O O O O S E R S.
            See: Vietnam, Cambodia, Libya, Syria, Serbia, Iran, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Cuba, Iraq…………and the ever-present, ever-favorite…..AFGHANISTAN.
            Our grandfathers understood a truth we avoid/forget–wars can actually be WON.

          • Mark H, And where precisely has restraint worked for us/ Or made our enemies love/like us for our benevolence? The only reason Israel has to show restraint in dealing with these bloody savages is, the muslim world goes crying to the UN on how evil and mean the Israeli’s are for shooting back. Since I have served, All I have seen is our young men being chewed up and spit out because everybody is afraid of so called collateral damage thus making our casualties very high and emboldens our enemies. We get away from the old tried and true methods in dealing with our enemies at our own peril Mark. I must warn you my friend that when the fun and reindeer games begin in our own countries, there will be no quarter, no mercy and no prisoners as a matter of policy and collateral damage be bloody damned.

          • G- I wanted to give up on this thread, but your comment from the 22nd merits a response.

            The bombing of German and Japanese cities in WW2 killed many civilians, but very few were British or American. If military action against Muslims in a city like London were planned, and mixed areas such as my own randomly attacked, the revulsion (not just over the loss of my own humble self!) would probably bring down the government; assuming it were the present one, Jeremy Corbyn might end up as PM! The financial loss from damage to property would also be ruinous.

            Precision attacks by special forces seem more likely (and would be more effective). But we’re not there yet, and if the increasing success of “right wing” parties, here and elsewhere, scares our politicians into taking decisive action short of armed conflict, it may not be necessary.

          • Mark H, With all due respect, conflict at this point is unavoidable, it will be us against them and those who support or defend them(commie leftists). Waiting for government to fix the problems they created is a fools errand. Like I said, you either are sheep or a wolf, there no middle ground any longer and you just can’t be the bystander gawking at what is happening in front of you. It will be block by block, street by street and city by city and it will be brutal, bloody and very savage. Urban fighting is always messy. As for ole Red Corbyn, his days at PM would be very short and probably [redacted]. Democracy as we know it is dead, Long live the Queen.

    • When push comes to shove (AS IT ALWAYS DOES), the invaders’ shield of the national gendarme will eventually crumble;

      It won’t crumble, it will simply step aside. And that, from the perspective of the about-to-be-crushed-invaders, is the best case scenario. The worst case, and much more likely, scenario is the national gendarme participate with enthusiasm.

  19. The Koran does not recognize “partition”. This is, at best, Hudna. Anyone that thinks this is a solution is merely whistling past the graveyard.

    Remember three facts: 1) Socialism views religion, any religion, as a tool to manipulate the masses. 2) Mohammedanism has no imperative for individual choice between good and evil in salvation, only obedience. 3) All that is required to keep power is to recite the Shahada.

    Why, at the critical moment, would any EU pol not simply transition and continue as usual, but with a new allegiance to the Ummah?

  20. Either Islam is fiercely subjugated, humiliated and refuted worldwide or it is the end of civilization. China and Burma have seemed to caught on that is a question of SURVIVAL – whatever you think of the government of China or Burma – they have got that right.

    • I wonder what is *really* going on in Burma. actually went over there.
      I get the feeling that it’s another case where the MSM is sanitising what is *really* going on.

      As for China with the Uighurs, it does sound quite unpleasant. Funny how “the world” hardly talks about *that* one. I guess that they keep the media away…

  21. Surely any partitioned land would just become a base for terrorists a la Gaza?

    Meanwhile, think the leftists on the “infidel” side will stop crowing on about the need for multiculturalism? Then think again…

  22. I’m happy to see the idea of partition debated.

    I’d like to make a few observations.

    I never thought that partition would make both sides happy, or would be agreed to by both sides, or would result in economically-viable Muslim states. In fact, I think any Muslim region would be chronically dependent on handouts and chronically dissatisfied.

    Why did I propose partition?

    Suppose we had the power to expel all Muslims, which we don’t. Would that be a moral action for us to take? And to me, the first law of morality is to survive.

    I’ll make an analogy. Imagine yourself as a do-gooder who takes a bum from the homeless camp and brings him into your house. After a few years, you still see the problems with drinking, drugs, filthy clothes and unwillingness to work. You conclude it’s not working out.

    Here’s the problem.

    If you had left him alone, he’d be living life as he knows it in his space. But, you took him out of it for years, making him lose his space and his ability to survive in that world. You would return him to his old lifestyle after having intervened and destroyed all his old instinct for surviving in the homeless environment.

    So, having made your disastrous action based on your altruistic ideas, do you have the moral right just to dump him back on the streets, far worse off than before.

    So, the prime motivation for partition is to exist in a homogeneous region comprised of Western culture and political assumptions (survival). Second motivation is to recognize your own compliance in the migrants leaving their home countries and cultures, especially for those born in Europe who are eminently unsuitable for returning to African culture.

    Your responsibility is not to ensure the Muslim enclave is financially viable, which is probably impossible, but to act morally according to your own lights, and provide the opportunity, even if it is not taken advantage of.

    Run decently, urban areas can be centers of growth and industry, even if not supported by its own farmlands. Just look at Singapore.

    Now, let’s look at the practical side. Some commenters talk about the expulsion or “medieval” option, where a whole population is simply expelled. Making this your objective vastly increases the resistance to your objective of a homogeneous culture and polity. Sometimes you have to manage a problem rather than solve it.

    • Ronald B, Your use of the term moral in dealing with the 3rd world savages of islam gives me great pause, for there is nothing moral about appeasing our enemies and letting them do whatever at our expense. So I will leave you with this, For those who take the high moral ground in dealing with our enemies, they always end up getting buried in it. We are under ZERO responsibility in dealing with our enemies in our own lands.

    • High educated muslims participate happy in rapes and crimes. How many muslims can you estimate to say “no” to raping an infidel virgin girl ?
      You are comparing “you” with 99% of the muslim population who want few wives, many virgins and a happy life doing nothing.
      Morality must be reciprocal.

    • Suppose we had the power to expel all Muslims, which we don’t.

      Who is this “we” of whom you speak? Because that makes a huge difference.

      If it is the secular/Christian Caucasian European majorities of every Western European country, then the answer is that very clearly they DO have the power. If it is the current gov’ts of those countries, in the current socio-political environments, then you are correct. Nobody in this thread though expects the “current socio-political environment” to persist indefinitely. Will the terrible power of Europeans be unleashed once again? Can the “post-War order” keep that power quiescent, or will the barbaric, savage acolytes of a 7th century murderer and brigand break the shackles?

      The question isn’t whether or not Europeans (i.e. “we”) have the power, it is whether or not we have the will and the stomach to do it. And whether the invaders can strike with enough coordination and ferocity to bring the Europeans into submission. Because once the rumble starts, it will escalate VERY quickly. As it escalates the invaders will have a small window of opportunity to neutralize the formal opposition and perhaps terrorize the Europeans into dhimmitude.

      If any members of the various European militaries, especially ground and air forces, are reading this, know that after the mass communications facilities, YOU will be the first targets of the invaders. And they won’t wait for you to muster. They will strike you in your homes, on the street as you go about your day, etc. They will attempt to seize and deny you access to your bases. They will leave American forces alone until they know which way America will jump, if at all.

      One salient question is this: how many of the “refugees” are jihadists, waiting for a possible “Go, go, go!! Allahu Akbar!!” I sure as heck wouldn’t be willing to count on the number being “zero.”

  23. Having read the post, the historical details presented, it seems clear to all who are participants, that the least lethal, and best solution is the latter ones of Sobieski and the Sailor, namely the Russian and Chinese ones, strictly enforced and employed, in spades. But who could lead, educate, bring together adequate support, and implement. That would be first question.

    Doing nothing is surrender, with prolonged forever unimaginable pain until rebellion of the non muslims. Partition is much the same, doing nothing and not successful. Genocide, well, imagine, considering lengthy, moderate, and near term history. Nah huh.

    But the Sailor explains a workable solution, a fine one, requiring work, discipline, and strong wise leadership, absolute determination, and much support from the European populace of each nation affected. From whence the leaders? They, the muslims, only respect force, overwhelming force and determination. Only. They, the muslims, are taught through the koran to be fundamentally evil, and that this is superiority, why they are “the best of people”, so that would have to be the guide.

  24. The “disappearance” appears to be a change in settings of WordPress, or a glitch of WordPress to not post an immediate memorandum confirming right away of receipt if comment, awaiting moderation. It used to do that until recent times, I’ve noticed the change as well.

  25. No, partition is not a viable option. It would never be stable.

    Firstly because Muslim city states would not be able to support themselves independent of the surrounding infidels since there has never been a successful economy consisting of (predominantly) taxi drivers and welfare recipients.

    Secondly the teachings of Islam, and its history, clearly show that Islam must always be top dog. The city states would only ever be considered as beach heads. Relations between Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb have always been a one-way ratchet.

    The rapid rise of nationalist parties across Europe give some hope that this can all be sorted out democratically (sort of) but if that fails then we can always take inspiration from two of our historic events, the Peasants’ Revolt and the little known St Brice’s Day Massacre:

  26. Also, it could have something to do with the settings or design of Microsoft Windows 10, to which I recently switched, (MS 7 was more stable, frankly) so consider that. MS 10 functions slightly differently. Also the latest iteration of Norton AV software used in conjunction may affect the immediacy of receipt confirmation. I’ve seen subtle changes in functioning, as good, but different, less automatic, for example on filling in IDs, etc. I’m nearly 80 and sharp as a well honed tool, for the most part. So far. Body worn out some, though. And vegetarian, finally, 5 years now, with expertise in IT, writing, much more.

    Not pleased with current turns of events, anywhere. Much degradation since my youth and young days. Even with their negatives for all, of the period, I’d trade.

    As the very dark clouds of storms, appear clearly on the horizon. When will they sweep over again on global society, that is, the generally historically good peoples thereof, mostly the historic “prey animals” of Europe, plunging into the dark ages, again, redux. Tours, GoV, Leponto, etc. It could happen again, people don’t learn from history, thus repeats needed of immense pain, to learn. When they don’t learn from the Bible or history, well, fill in the blanks. Our (the west’s) greatest enemy, scourge, is the evil islam, and dictatorships in general, of course including islam, socialism, and marxism-communism, total failures in any imaginary or practiced form, always.

    Economically, and marketwise, I have strong suspicion the next ten years or so likely will be like the ten or twenty year recent times record of immense financial successes, of a few decades ago, the 80’s I think. Likely. Courtesy of the deplorables, and PDJT, against all odds of our evil “resistance” wealthy democrats.

    • Well, you use Microsoft to compose your comments? I don’t see the need for anything more sophisticated than Notepad for this type of forum. Unless Microsoft gives you automatic html formatting, which I can employ by simply remembering the tags.

      The eminent, latest authority on the relentless expansion of Islam through jihad is, of course, Robert Spencer’s
      History of Jihad

      Incidentally, a Google search of “jihad” does not return a reference to Spencer’s book, number one seller on several NYT categories.

      The decline of civilizations is a well-known phenomenon, described in not only Spengler’s Decline of the West: Volumes 1 and 2 but, to me, a more enlightening book

      Law of Civilization and Decay

      I think modern scientific evidence shows that civilization is actually its own worst enemy, relaxing the conditions of natural selection such that harmful genetic mutations are able to pass themselves on, eventually degrading not only the intelligence of populations, but their instincts to reproduce themselves.
      The Genius Famine

      So, any viable attempt to maintain Western civilization will have to focus not only on the philosophical nihilism accompanying the surrender to Islam, but on maintaining the genetic quality of the population.

  27. I see a de facto partition occurring in the future. The cities will become majority muslim, (London, Birmingham, Luton already more than 50% non English population). There will be “white flight” to the rural areas where property prices to date have kept out muslim migrants.
    If disorder and violence increases expect walled towns and villages where the indigenous population lives. But this raises an interesting point, the rural areas produce the food and supply it to the urban areas where the immigrants live in. They themselves, even if they occupied land could not efficiently produce food like professional farmers. Zimbabwe is a great example of land seizures leading to poverty. So it may be that some truce is agreed to in exchange for trade in food products that the muslim cities need. I think the Gaza situation is possibly quite likely the future for Europe. Hostile territories side by side, that cooperate for essentials, and with outbreaks of conflict periodically.
    I can see a return to walled towns and villages of medieval type and partition of sectors of cities into ethno/religion zones like is seen in Lebanon. Or like the “Dark Ages” after the fall of the Roman Empire, and local communities had to defend their turf from invaders. Partition is a strategy used throughout history to hold off an powerful invading culture.

    • You forgot that in God’s year 2018 we have RPG, AK, grenades and other devices capable of jumping over the walls…or destroying them.
      The partition will be something like that:
      The caliph is speaking-
      you and your people go to farm in the village…the products and result of your work must be delivered at our main train station in the city…and few new young girls of yours…if not…we will come to your village and that will be not so nice.

  28. European Socialists will enable the Muslim community to dominate and thrive, just as they are now acting as Trojan horses for the infiltration of Islamism in mainstream politics and daily life. Just as our productivity and taxes currently support an unproductive, useless, de-cultured society, this will gradually extend to the Muslim community, all in the name of social peace, love, solidarity, liberalism blah blah blah. The Left is the Problem, not Islam.

  29. The vice hold the mainstream media have on the narrative is what needs to be broken so that the classical Western values of freedom of speech, freedom of conscience ie the antithesis of identity and group politics and equality before the law for currently protected minorities on the same basis as everyone else. The willful ignorance of the smug left covering for their plantation needs to be exposed and ridiculed to clear public debate of dogwhistles like Islamophobia and racism. Only when the war of ideas is won on the basis of fact, free debate and demonstrable superiority can the removal of Islam be practicable. Restore the history of the 1400 year old war and honour the heroes who preserved us.

    Western societies should not be hospitable to those that cannot embrace them. Why allow the slaughter and distribution of cruelly slain animals? Why allow the distribution of literature and delivery of sermons directly inciting violence? Why allow prayer in public places? Why accommodate Ramadan? Why give any Islamic charity, mosque or institution subsidy or tax breaks? Why provide translators? Penalize pilgrimage. Prosecute polygamy. Insist immigrants support themselves and family without recourse to public funds. Only the truly integrated should receive citizenship.

    If the West becomes an uncomfortable place to be an adherent Muslim, the current hostile colonists will have to chose to integrate or leave.

    • I see a slight contradiction.

      You include freedom of speech as a Western value we have to maintain, but criticize allowing Muslim literature to be distributed. You can have one, but not both.

      As far as creating barriers to any immigration but those willing to support themselves and philosophically supportive of Western values: it’s all been tried. One thing that happens is that the courts use their powers of kritarachy to dilute any exclusions. For example, the McCarren Act excluded Communists from immigration. The Supreme Court found that provision to be unconstitutional. Of course, constitutionally, any legislation may take review jurisdiction away from the Supreme Court. I don’t know why Congress didn’t employ that provision more. Now, with the Congress almost evenly divided between the Democratic coalition of the fringes and the Republicans, including the neocons and the never-Trumpers, it’s impossible to pass any legislation significantly affecting the present logjam. The President effectively rules by decree, with the federal courts acting as a joker.

      • Ronald…you can be fair with those fair with you. You can’t treat as equal and subject to fairness a person, as long he is planing to kill you and you know his plan because he is screaming his plan every day in the streets.
        Jesus told us to be kind, not stupid. Be kind with those who are kind.
        For those who are your enemies, turn the cross and use it as sword.

        • Well stated Stefan cel Mare. As a Christian I see RonaldB wanting to respect the sanctity of every human being. As a woman, I fear and loathe third world savagery! Western women, children and elderly now have an extra burden of watching their backsides and being hyper vigilant when encountering third world migrants. We are the easy prey, low hanging fruit. Now I fully comprehend why God told the Israelites to smite their enemies, and wipe them off the map! Islam is evil and so is the Satanic inspired, unholy Quran. Islam is more dangerous than The Anarchist’s Cookbook and Mein Kampf! As such this evil, totalitarian ideology (hiding behind freedom of religion) must be outlawed from Western practice. It can be studied for historical purposes but not allowed to organize, assemble, and recruit!

          RonaldB…Sin has become so casual in the West! We allowed pornography to become a billion dollar, 24-7 industry! Now young women like Mollie Tibbetts are abducted in broad daylight in places like rural Iowa. Raped, beaten, killed and discarded! Usually the perpetrator(s) are socially awkward males addicted to pornography. Only a few MSM & Christian organizations tell these truths!

          Question: Why are military age, young Muslim men arriving in the West without wives, or children? One answer seldom mentioned: They could not afford to buy a bride in their home countries. Middle age and older males with money get their pick of the litter. Four wives per Muslim male creates mass shortages of potential brides. Poor Muslim males arrive in the West sexually frustrated and expecting to get a willing female or sex slave of their choosing. It’s what Islam has promised in the unholy Quran! Young boys are also fair game for them.

  30. TS. Sadly my feelings too.

    “This is, at best, Hudna”
    taqiyya, muruna, tawriya, kitman
    This ideology has helped islam cover its tracks and intentions.
    Partition will not work!
    Hudna is another piece of advice, promise peace, and when stronger, break the agreement and attack.Practiced by the 1st war-lord of islam, that fits in with the teaching from the koran, hadith and sira.

    Islam is playing to a point, like eating an elephant, one mouthful at a time, believing that they will be the winner and take all.
    It knows how to appeal, fight and deceive on many fronts.

    We need to know ourselves, and then know islam. Then every battle and point will be won.
    Free Speech must be safe guarded and or regained.
    It took Spain 600 years to accomplish the reconquista, and they knew for a long time how about the truth of Mohammad, and their culture in Catholicism, remained strong. Some that Spanish “ruthlessness” came from that long ongoing battle with islam. Likewise for Sicily.

    In this day, we can shout the truth, campaign on the truth, make special days bringing truth of islam, like “draw Mohammad day”, a day of everyone (man woman and child) wearing a burka to a bank, government building, mosque.
    Others may bring up better ideas, and to work it as a protest, and spreading knowledge and information.
    To bring the point of 1 law for all, and that is not sharia.

    Safety is in numbers, and more so when on guard, and caring of each other.
    EDL, Pegida, posters, billboards, songs, ditties, and supporting the ones like Tommy Robinson, Baron & Dymphna, Jihad Watch, and many others.

  31. ………………
    In just twenty years, the lost territories of the Republic have become territories abandoned to Islamism. True little caliphates have established themselves in a nation ravaged by denial and allowing Sharia law to settle on its soil with impunity.
    At the pace of reasonable accommodation, inspired by the worst options of the Anglo-Saxon countries and implemented by cowardly policies, terrorized at the idea of ​​being qualified as Islamophobic and relayed by elites sheltered from fatwas, a part of France has seceded.
    Will France wake up? Or will she let herself go to the worst?
    Chronicle of Islamist Secession in France (French Edition)
    by Alexandre MENDEL (Author)

    I used google translate.

    I am not sure but in googling it appears that one might be able to download this book for free on other sites,
    The catch for me is that it is in French.
    He has done interviews with Russia Today and some blog spots, in English

  32. Don’t wars happen all the time? …much more than partitions?

    When no one can predict the future, shouldn’t we assume the more likely will happen?

  33. I think partition is feasible as a temporary solution. Temporary may mean decades, centuries even though. It certainly beats full on surrender. It gives Europeans the mentioned amount of time to take in the cold shower of such a radical upset of the status quo, and think of their future survival. Maybye they will fail to take in the lesson, and in the end surrender anyway.

    Or maybye they won’t, and then the facts that the muslims are confined in cities and dependent on Europeans for food and electricity will be their problem, not the Europeans’, who would then be willing to pragmatically play these facts for own advantage with no silly sentiments about their enemies well being.

    • Centuries is a long time, and Islam could self-destruct as a serious force within that time. On the other hand, it has lasted quite a long time, so I wouldn’t count on that happening.

  34. What no one has mentioned is the – unlikely but not impossible – chance of Islam being undermined and discredited from within. Already via twitter I’ve seen videos of people in Iran burning pages from the Koran, in addition to their public denouncements of the mullahs.

    As Koenraad Elst writes ( in a great book, Islam cannot compete with progress and modernity, and will eventually eat itself. So, for as long as more prosperous societies exist, people within Islamic communities will remain unhappy and there will be violent discontent. The only problem is the extent of damage Islam can do in the meanwhile before it does eventually collapse.

    If partition does happen in Europe, maybe a more humane approach of finding a way out is to try and educate muslims and tempt them away, a la Soviet Union/East Berlin.

    But to tempt muslims away to a European culture means a having a strong European culture that means something and is attractive, unlike the current wet liberal defeatism. If partition is something that will bring this about, maybe it’s even worthwhile.

    • I think it’s wistful thinking to believe that Islam will be undermined from inside. The number of Muslims is increasing, not decreasing. It’s also wistful thinking to believe that a Muslim will renounce his faith due to familiarity with Western science or culture. There are plenty of fervent jihadists who are doctors, engineers, physicists and university scholars. The Muslim Brotherhood understands the system of representative government very well and uses it against us. The head of Al Qaeda is a former surgeon.

      I met a Christian convert from Islam who bravely, personally confronted Muslim proselytizers. She was very familiar with the atrocities of Islam. Yet, she did not oppose Muslim immigration. The way she saw it, the more Muslims around, the more potential converts. She was very cool (politely so, of course) to my suggestion that Muslims be excluded from immigration altogether.

    • Islam had an attempted reformation 1000 years ago, they were called the Mutazila. ( They aren’t even really well known because they were murdered wholesale and their names practically erased from the history books. Those who did the killing would become the modern Sunni (I don’t think they were called that at the time, this is from memory) and decreed irrevocably that anyone trying to ‘change or reinterpret’ the Koran should be killed on sight as a blasphemer. This is why the rate of Muslims killing other Muslims is TWICE per capita as any other group (ie Muslims killing Jews, Christians, etc). This is why the Sunni derived Wahabi Saudi Arabia is willing to partner with Israel because they hate the Shia in Iran even more than they hate Israel.

      It doesn’t matter that more prosperous countries exist, if those countries are so stupid as to let barbarians inside their gates, give them unlimited free everything along with citizenship (ie the right to not be expelled) and unlimited everything for however many kids they can crap out from their four wives.

      Progress and modernity has gone on for hundreds of years, and it hasn’t phased Islam so far. On the contrary, it was only in the last century that it went a further “refinement” or if you will, a return to fundamentalism – books like Reliance of the Traveler arent even a hundred years old. Harder versions of Islam like the Wahabi are actually orthodox and fundamental, because it mirrors Mohammed’s original behavior. Yet even in Saudi Arabia they execute those “too hardcore for the them”(!) – i’ve seen videos of interviews.

      Islam is effectively and iteratively self purifying, it can only get more and more extreme, and anyone saying it shouldn’t is a blasphemer that official Sunni doctrine says should be murdered on site – and they are 85-90% of all Islam/the Shia are the minority. You explain to me where there can be any hope when 1000 years ago the only viable reformation was buried under the dunes to effectively never be allowed to raise its head again.

      Islam is not about being educated, it’s about submitting, according to Sunni philosophy – and alternatives like reform or watering it down are considered blasphemy deserving of murder and required to be enforced by ‘any true Muslim’ of the billion plus Sunni, anywhere on the planet. I’ve never heard about a more perfect or totalitarian political system as this in terms of pushing for extreme behavior.

      Furthermore any attempt to “tempt away Muslims” makes you an enemy of all Islam the moment it is consciously perceived, indeed we are targets simply for existing, because our existance is considered a tempt and threat.

      The best thing for the survival of the West to do with Muslims is to push them back to their own countries since theyre so damned vocal and loud about demanding to live under Shariah, put a wall around all of it, and treat the whole damn place like Gaza so they can’t become a threat to the rest of us. Wait for them to rot in poverty to the point that people give up internally since they are emboldened right now by their accurate perception that they are winning and making progress. Either wall them away so they can’t drag us down or change them by force which will require more killing and war and trillions for policing than I care to vote for.

      The only way Islam will collapse is if walled off and allowed to fail like North Korea. Regardless of how much suffering that entails for those on the other side for us not indulging them with endless welfare for them and tolerance for their intolerance, all that falls at the feet of Islam, not us.

      • I agree with everything you say, except that the Reliance of the Traveler was written in the 14th century, considerably more than 100 years ago.

        But, I agree with you completely. In an ideal world, the Muslims would be kept in their own countries. I did propose a partition, partly as atonement for allowing Muslims to leave their country as “refugees” and partly because at this point, European nationalists can most easily develop their own enclaves. I’m not sure they have the power to push the Muslims out of their countries completely. But, as pointed out, the Muslims tend to cluster in the larger cities where welfare is plentiful and they can establish their own sharia zones. So, it’s far easier for the white population to set up its own domains in the rural areas where Muslims are sparse. Eventually, the Muslims can be pushed out, but it might take a long time.

        The largest danger, as I’ve claimed in other posts, is that the globalists and international financiers and industrialists and neocons will militarily intervene on the side of the Muslims in any civil war where the Europeans are winning. It happened in Bosnia and Kosovo, and cannot be discounted by any who are serious about winning. Without going into details, any planning for taking Europe back from the Muslims has got to take intervention by NATO and the EU military into account.

        • Argh, I guess I meant Milestones. That’s what happens when I type exclusively from memory. My point was that Milestones by Qutb (checked this time) is considered one of the galvanizing texts and it’s barely over 50 years old yet it’s on the shelf in every mosque ever. It represented a return to ‘orthodox’ fundamentalist Islam, just like Wahabism basically is. It’s why I get frustrated when some people say “oh well the British set up the Saudis and so that doesn’t represent TRUE Islam”; actually, yes, it does represent true Islam. The fact that Islam sort of got along better prior to the rise of the Saudis is somewhat irrelevant if the moment they return to the original meaning of the next they rediscover their fire again. It’s also why stupid comments like the Palestinians used to get along better with the Christians in the area before Israel are also sort of irrelevant, they are now 90% Sunni and returned to their roots and wouldn’t peacefully coexist with anybody.

          If the Europeans don’t have the power to push the Muslims out of their countries completely then the Europeans will be pushed out by the Muslims, as has happened in dozens of other countries with simple math. It might not happen instantly but with high birthrates and scarcity it’s guaranteed. They’ll simply run their enclave into the ground, and then either re-invade what is now next door (instead of across the Mediterranean) or demand endless welfare from us.

          I still insist pushing anyone out is about who is represented in government, and if that’s globalist-run instead of nationalist-run, everyone is going to keep getting the same line of [nonsense]. Many European identities are already at a tipping point, not necessarily a 50/50 population competition, but rather a battle between the “really motivated” ones. Just as America had its 3% who fought in the Revolutionary War, there are some very motivated Islamists on one side who have nothing to lose going up against people like Tommy Robinson. It’s going to come down to spine on some level, and what percentage of people still have it and those who won’t back down. I forget the mathematical term but there is a tipping point population in groups, you don’t have to win the minds of 50% of them to change things, you just have to have a certain level (I think 5-10%) absolutely tirelessly committed, and the majority eventually goes their way.

          The problem right now there is a certain level of leftists organized from the outside which has been allowed to get away with cultural suicide.

          I agree with your assessment that if NATO/EU simply intervene on the side of the Muslims I don’t see any way for things to change, which is why I returned to the comment that if people cannot retake their governments and sign out of that nonsense they don’t stand a chance. However, so far they put up with vote fraud and everything else. If 60% support a nationalist and the media tells them they got 33% people just bow their heads and accept it. As long as that […] continues, a minority that wasn’t even elected will continue to rule by fraud and fiat in every one of those countries.

        • Random Commemter…great synopsis on the impossibility of reforming Islam! Not one word or comma is alllowed to be changed or removed from the unholy Koran!

          Islam will not die off because Survival of the Fitness (Darwinism) is no longer permitted for human beings in the wealthy, Western nations of Europe, Northern America, Australia and New Zealand. Tiny nation of Israel also feels politically pressured to feed, supply and employ their radical Muslim neighbors. President Trump enacted “Zero Tolerance” for illegal migrants. Half of them with children in tow were not biologically related! The Border Patrol separated adults and children exactly like it was done during Obama’s eight year Administration. And the leftist lovies and liberals went berserk over a fake TIME magazine photograph of a supposedly separated migrant child. Trump then walked back his policy after federal judges deemed separation inhumane for children with parents. At least our Border Patrol
          is conducting DNA testing to separate the smugglers and human traffickers from legitimate relatives.

          Bring in a migrant child and our governments (at all levels) open up the economic,
          medical, educational benefits and housing- rewarding them with their own apartments and subsidized housing for larger families. Meanwhile, here in Communist run California, our homeless populations in major cities are exploding! Tent cities are filled with homeless Veterans, mentally ill, and childless American citizens. It makes me sick to my stomach that migrant children are now the political pawns moving around the chessboards (limited resources) in Western civilizations! The Do gooders, NGOs, UN, and current government agencies will not allow them (migrants, Muslims)
          to starve or die out from overbreeding.

          • You could argue that Islam could ‘reform’ only in the sense that it would no longer be Islam, and anyone following that would be considered an apostate and deserving of death. There’s no point calling it Islam when it’s no longer Islam, the Sunni already blame the Shia for doing exactly that and kill them for it – all other reformers want to take it far further away than the Shia do and should expect even worse treatment. You’re killed for trying to reform it or for leaving it, it’s the same outcome.


            Redacted for brevity. A 700+ word comment is not a comment, it’s an essay.

  35. Why did Muslims migrate to Britain in the first place? Why did blacks in Africa migrate to South Africa? Life sucks in Muslim countries. Muslims would want to migrate to any newly partitioned non-Muslim area for the better standard of living. They would have to be kept out.

    This topic brings to mind a Vox Day post and related video, with provocative titles.

  36. Different versions of symbiotic relationships will be tried, across Europe, including partition (on a zonal basis) and new versions of apartheid. This is because Marxists and other multi-culti traitors still stand at the helm. All these social experiments will fail because they ignore the imperial core of Islamic ideology which demands total submission. The answer to all the searching lies in the time-line. Action taken within the next 5 to 10 years will involve some blood letting but can succeed. Action taken too late, maybe 20 to25 years down the road, will be a nightmare and nobody can predict the outcome. And nothing will be done to save Europe until and unless the people come to understand that Liberals, Socialists and Marxists are the real enemy. Given the rather decent supply of bread and circuses at present, I don’t see Europeans doing anything to save themselves. Depressing.

  37. In order to understand the long-term development of Europe after the collapse of the dominant culture, one must look to the Levant or Northern Africa, which were entirely Christian before and have become entirely Muslim by now. This is the future of Europe.

    The fall of Rome is only instructive of the moment of collapse of the Empire. That was only a brief snapshot in history.

    The mechanisms of this sometimes creeping other times galloping encroachment of Islam are called the mechanisms of dhimmitude. This can be summed up by the idea of feeding the crocodile in the hope he eats you last. It does not work of course. In the long term thus, a partition will not work.

    Now let us look at the case of Europe specifically. Europe’s birthrate is 1.2 – 1.4. This is way below the required replacement rate at 2.1 per woman.

    Fertility rates are deep social trends that do not change, and will not correct quickly. Especially if you have dumped religious values, and think blowing $ 50’000 on a luxury trip to the South Pole outweighs the burden of raising a second child. Then fertility rates shall not rise. So, every generation loses one third of its people.

    You start out with 25 million grandparents, 25 million parents and 25 million children. That roughly reflects the number of Germans today.

    After 25 years, you will have 25 million grandparents, 25 million parents and 17 million children. In 50 years, 25 grandparents, 17 parents and 11 children. After 75 years, 17 grandparents, 11 parents and 6 million children, i.e. you are less than the half, you were 75 years ago.

    The propaganda press, academia, politicians and government funded NGOs are telling us that 1 million migrants into Germany was no big deal on a population of 80 million. Consider however, that Germany already has 8 million Muslims and that largely the new migrants were males aged 18 – 25, and that they are allowed to bring in wives for reunification. Then it follows that the cohort of 18 – 25 in Germany is close to 40% Muslim.

    We already know that 35% of the children in Germany of below 6 years of age have a migration background. The same can be said of France, Sweden, The Netherlands etc. Incidentally, Russia also has low fertility rates and a growing Muslim factor.

    We will not have to wait 75 years to reach a majority of Muslims. It is too late to unscramble the eggs. And the idea of a partition will not work.

    That only leaves the Visigrad-4, i.e. Slovak, Czech, Hungary and Poland with a total population of 63 million. To keep their Christian culture they must exit the EU, otherwise they will have to accept Muslims with EU passports. Even so, it is unlikely for them to survive; wedged between two Muslims blocs, Western Europe and Russia. They may try and duplicate the role model of Israel. Barring divine intervention, that usually will fail.

    • I like your arguments: logical, objective and fact-based. Except I don’t agree with your conclusion.

      To maintain itself, the European population needs at least two factors: the freedom to develop its own culture in its own political milieu; and the ability to raise its birth rates dramatically.

      Partition gives the native Europeans the ability to develop their society, technology, and political values without the interference of bloc-voting Muslim identity groups.

      As far as raising birth rates, that’s a Darwinian genetic, not a values problem. The rise of technology, welfare, and modern medicine allows dysfunctional genes to be procreated. Dysfunctional genes affect every characteristic, especially intelligence and the drive to reproduce. So, to avoid the usual decline and fall of civilizations, the Europeans will have to institute some sort of eugenics. Eugenics does not have to be brutal, by the way, especially with modern knowledge, economies and technology. But it does definitely have to be implemented. People unable to function or to support themselves need to be offered the choice of voluntary sterilization and a lifetime support in comfort, or else no living assistance and exist on their own.

      This is the only way to bring up birth rates.

    • Why all must be scared by fertility rate ? During history, Europe had up’s and down’s…With today technology, fertility rate is not an important issue. Quality is important. All economical prognoses tell about high unemployment in the future because of the new technologies replacing the working force. We don’t need billions of children. If we must have more children in the future, there are many ways to do it. If there were 2 bill. europeans, all like Merkel or Macron, we were saved ?
      If we march on fertility, at a moment in time we are going to eat each other.
      Fertility rate is important only when you are invaded and you do nothing to stop and reverse the invasion. And not even then. More europeans means more converts to islam if we look how the europeans are today.

    • The Levant & N Africa were not entirely Christian pre-Islam; there were Jews in many places- hundreds of thousands of them fled to Palestine/Israel in the 1940s.

    • You are failing to consider one factor: absent external technology and advances, Muslim-dominated societies will probably have high child mortality as in the past, causing their numbers to collapse.

      This is “traditionally” what kept these societies in demographic check.

  38. A scenario involving partition is probably the only chance left for the cultural survival of western Europe…and so it cannot be judged according to the high moral standards of the present, but rather you must ask yourself if not ANYTHING will be better than a muslim-dominated western Europe. Any form of partition will be better than none because of the chance for a clear border and the necessity of thinking again in terms of “Us and them”…and if you don’t think it worked well in Israel to fence off Gaza, then think again: a new generation is growing up here in Israel with constant rocket alarms and burnt fields, and they are much less patient and tolerant towards the Arabs than their parents.
    … one day when Israel has become strong enough they will deal with Gaza the same way Putin crushed Grosny i Tchetchenia…and so the only problem with Partition in western Europe is HOW to get it started… but that’s another story.

  39. Option 4. A European country able to support the whole of Europe’s 50 million Muslim population is identified and the Muslim population would be forced to move to it. That country is unquestionably Britain with it natural moat. Existing non-Muslims in Britain would then be reallocated across Europe along with their football clubs and culture. This approach avoids Balkinisation and yes, is tough on Britain, but its the best outcome for Europe as whole and avoids bloodshed.

    • I really hate to break this to you, but, make no mistake, massive bloodshed is inevitable whether you like it or not. What I find amusing, in a dark sense of humor way is, you Brits seem to truly believe in the rainbows and unicorns scenario when history is bloody staring you dead in the eye saying otherwise and you choose to blissfully ignore it. Balkanization is already here, it is just a matter of when the shooting starts. So take my American advice, read the writing on the wall and take the necessary actions to preserve you and yours, it is coming and soon.

    • Thanks for giving my country away. I think I’ll decline your offer. If you think forcible quarantining of 50 million Muslims is the answer then why not Morocco or one or several of the OIC countries? Or your own country, whatever that is. You may not have a natural moat but I’m sure we would be willing to help you build a secure perimeter fence.

    • My friend…in Europe are more than 100 mill. muslims. My own estimation, according to different sources and indirect calculation, there are about 110 – 120 mill muslims.
      and then…
      there are so many countries with a muslim majority…why finding a place in Europe ? If they really miss islam, then we must send them where islam is…we dont need to invent new islamic countries…

      • Stefan cel Mare. What was it the muslims Algerians said to the French in Algeria? Oh yes, of course, it was the suitcase or the coffin to all Frenchmen and women living in Algeria. So one must give the muslims in France the same ultimatum and carry it out.

  40. This battle will be determined in the boudoir.

    The German and European zeitgeist is minimum sized brood, the Islamic is to maximize it the African is to supersize it. Slowly, which is yesterdays expression? More and more German and European women will invite into their boudoirs all the eager jihadists and non-jihadists. They will have DNA wise a 50% inheritance in European terra firma and try to separate through a partition or apartheid a man from what is “rightfully” his birthright.

    Welcome to post-civil war America’s answer to this, “JIM CROW”. Partitions are indefensible and invisible to the boudoir. The European will not end up with a 38th Parallel. North and South Koreans are so much more uncomplicated DNA wise. Europeans have constructed a Tower of Babel of DNA that only God could possibly deconstruct it.

  41. Partition is already a fact. There are the actual “no-go zones”.
    And yet, they want more.
    As long there are people capable of thinking that there can exist a deal with muslims, our chances are almost non-existent.

    • I think your last paragraph sums up the whole business very elegantly. Partition is like chickens coming to an ‘arrangement’ with the foxes to partition off the hen-house. Instead of squawking to the farmer to come and shoot them.

  42. I hate to say this but not only are the White race, European cultures, and Western Civilization in danger. The survival of life on Earth is at stake. What kind of husbandry will Muslims and Africans offer wildlife, forests, farmlands, etc? What will they do when our nuclear power fall into their ignorant and fanatical hands?

    Europeans, and probably East Asians as well (in fact, they will probably lead the way…), will resort to the old fashioned tried and true methodology of “smite them all.” Genocide is the oldest trick in the book.

  43. Wow, what a topic. I know the author asked a question and the comments have gone onto other things, but it’s so hard to not cover those things.

    “Taking over an inch if you wont give us a foot” was the plan all along. “They” knew on some level that we would compromise away because historically, we are weak and already did the same thing. Places like Syria and Egypt used to be CHRISTIAN, I mean literally the birthplace of Christianity, there is very little that Islam did not take over by force and coercion (or simply joining with like minded barbaric types) that i’m aware of although i’m not as well read as some here. What I don’t understand is why is this not trumpeted from the rooftops??

    There’s like, what is it, at least 47 countries where Muslims can be Muslim (and are even the majority), yet Israelis are supposed to give up their one and only tiny holding, Americans are supposed to give up the one and only place they can be Americans, and all other western nations whether Europe or Canada or Australia are likewise supposed to make room, compromise, and hand over something ‘fair and square'(??) to the invaders who bring nothing, contribute nothing, give back nothing, and will simply use it as a beachhead to demand more later, etc. Just like the communists. (or this crap i’m hearing about ‘just give California over to the Mexicans… why the hell should we have to do that?? Did we fight for this country just to hand over to the looters or on the say so of the moochers when even if we give them wealth they’ll just run it into the ground destroying even their own futures and losing our ocean of protection since hostiles from the Pacific could then land in NuevoNuevoMexico as a beachhead??) Can somebody explain to me why the leaders that allowed this crap to happen on their watch have not been strung up in a tree by their toes already??

    Giving into anything demanded by totalitarians simply gives you that much less. The fight and conflict seems inevitable and wont be avoided anyways (i’m talking about between cultures, this is not some personal expression of violent intent or anything at all – more just justification to demand to close the borders, cut off all the benefits, and expel them all), if Islam hasn’t changed in 1400 years why should we believe it would be different this time? Has history EVER shown a different outcome for any population which has let them in to any percentage except eventually being totally overtaken at some point? Does anyone believe even if they got ‘their partitions’ that ANYTHING would stop for them? Giving them 47 countries on the planet wasn’t enough… the only country to ever get back anything was Spain under King Ferdinand – perhaps we need to hear more awareness of that topic too since it seems relevant to the present.

  44. These comments are interesting and varied but are totally academic because they do not explain who it is that will undertake the implementation of the options. If you are all waiting for changes at the ballot boxes, you can say your farewells from now because, barring any cataclysmic other factor (such as a military coup in a major European country) it will not happen in time. After all the evidence of the deliberate islamization of Europe the voters are just now beginning to feel a little uncomfortable, so how many more murders, gang rapes, and other acts of violence are needed to motivate real change? Given modern surveillance technology I doubt that local militias will succeed because at this level of counterinsurgency the armed forces and the police are still protecting the elite. The few Europeans who have started banding together and making plans are not referred to as Freedom Fighters but terrorists, so who will lead the resistance?

    • Yet this is essentially what I said in my comments above. There is no civil war solution, there is only the solution enabled by Westerners regaining representative government and nationalism and then demanding their government use its laws, military, and police, and enforce its borders. To think that they couldn’t even get rid of certain people within their own borders is, I think, [to be] unaware of just how competent modern militaries are – all those governments have already sized themselves to force nonrepresentative government on unwilling populations, that’s how we ended up in this mess.

      You might say “easier said than done” and you’d be correct, especially in places increasingly at a tipping point where there are almost as many non-Europeans as Europeans, for instance. Yet it literally is that or nothing. Retake things peacefully with awareness while you still have an ever slipping majority of the population, or kick the can down the road another few decades after which you will be the ones removed from your own country. Show the will now or it will never even matter later when only worse options are even possible.

      If peaceful but difficult solutions continue to get postponed, the only alternatives will become violent ones or total capitulation.

  45. In all this time, the extreme big majority of western population is running after pokemons on the streets. Between 2 pokemons caught, they will say shahada. They will not know what that means, anyway. The future is bright.

    • The future is bright for Western indigenous people like me over the age of 50 who will most likely be raptured or deceased in 20 years!

      Our younger, indigenous people will need to rise up and reconquer their native lands! People like Canadian Lauren Southern, UK Ann Marie Walters, American Brittany Petttibone, and Austrian Martin Sellner who have been influenced by the Russian philosopher Aleksandr Dugin, Canadian philosopher Mark Stein, American Radio Host Michael Savage and other political leaders (Geert Wilders, Paul Weston, Viktor Orbán, etc). This is where our future hope lies in pushing back and financially defeating Islam! As a retired military member, I am willing to pick up arms and fight for our democracy, Republic, and freedom. Military history shows the fierce, prolonged fighting is done by young men and now young women also. Most Americans do not realize that female enlistment has kept the United
      States from invoking a national draft in the past 40 years. Our military is currently comprised of 3% of the U.S. population. However, many of us Baby Boomers are still alive and retired now. I moved and retired in a rural, predominantly Caucasian enclave. I feel safer inside a walled community of 24 hour manned security. And pay monthly dues for it. I call this a “modern day” partition! RonaldB…many of us have already voted with our feet and are moving to safer areas. Those who can afford to move away are doing so. In Europe, many are moving to Poland and Hungary in 2018. Especially those from Deutschland who see the writing in the wall.

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