Majid Oukacha is an apostate from Islam who was born in France of North African ancestry. He has written a book in which he performs a critical analysis of Islam, and particularly of its core texts, the Koran and the Sunna.
The following video is an interview with Mr. Oukacha by Gilbert Collard on TV Libertés. It was recorded last spring, the day after the terrorist attacks in Brussels.
Many thanks to Ava Lon for the translation, and to Vlad Tepes for the subtitling:
Transcript:
| 00:16 | Good evening. Welcome, Majid Oukacha. | |
| 00:20 | I’m careful not to butcher your name, because like me, you don’t like your name being mispronounced. | |
| 00:24 | And you’re right, — Yeah, —So I invited you tonight | |
| 00:28 | because I discovered you in a video | |
| 00:32 | and I told myself: this guy is crazy! He is taking a position on Islam, which, coming from | |
| 00:40 | a Muslim, even if now you’re an agnostic, | |
| 00:44 | is completely surprising. So, before getting into | |
| 00:48 | the subject, I have to tell you that I respect | |
| 00:52 | all religions, even religions of those who have none. | |
| 00:56 | So your book has to be read, | |
| 01:00 | a little a law study; because you | |
| 01:04 | are conducting a study, a criticism in good standing: | |
| 01:08 | systematic, judicial, literal of Quran. | |
| 01:12 | I would like to ask you first of all | |
| 01:16 | why a young man who used to be Muslim, | |
| 01:20 | who was, perhaps, a practising Muslim, | |
| 01:24 | why did he feel the need to undertake this criticism? | |
| 01:28 | About which I also have some objections, but we’ll talk about that later. | |
| 01:32 | So why did you feel that you had to write this book | |
| 01:36 | that lets us enter the Quran, but which at the same time | |
| 01:41 | constitutes a radical criticism, if I can use this term, | |
| 01:45 | of the Quran? —Good evening, first of all, thank you for your | |
| 01:49 | invitation. In fact I am a… I consider myself | |
| 01:53 | a French patriot, who cares about France. I get up every morning | |
| 01:57 | asking myself what I can do for France before asking what France could do for me. | |
| 02:01 | I was born and I grew up in a France, in fact, that I can recognize less and less | |
| 02:05 | with the passing years. And I rather consider myself lucky, | |
| 02:09 | because I was born in the late eighties. Anyway, when you are | |
| 02:13 | a young Frenchman whose parents or grandparents are originally from | |
| 02:17 | Morocco, Algeria or Tunisia with | |
| 02:21 | say, the ideological weight of | |
| 02:25 | the left that is trying to divide people in order to better rule, | |
| 02:29 | and which, in general, is trying to make people like me | |
| 02:33 | see the world in a binary and belligerent way, and to think | |
| 02:37 | that they have some sort of tribal revenge to take | |
| 02:41 | on France or they are mixed race and that the whites | |
| 02:45 | consider themselves superior; in any case I was lucky, because I was taught to love France; | |
| 02:49 | it wasn’t incompatible with the Islam with which I was educated. | |
| 02:53 | I was sent to the mosque at 8-9 years old, but my parents always taught me to love | |
| 02:57 | and respect France and to consider myself French. Most young French people | |
| 03:01 | like me, originally from Maghreb and who have dual nationality | |
| 03:05 | later or just French in any case, | |
| 03:09 | it’s true that, voilà, they have | |
| 03:13 | a point of view of double identity, sometimes contradictory, | |
| 03:17 | because Islam, for me who studied the Quran | |
| 03:21 | at 18 years old, I dived inside, I understood that | |
| 03:25 | Islam is a culture, | |
| 03:29 | that contradicts Western culture, that contradicts the culture of | |
| 03:34 | Western countries, meaning: Europe, North America, Israel or Australia. | |
| 03:38 | I don’t understand one thing. I know you can talk easily without pausing. | |
| 03:42 | If I understand correctly, the criticism | |
| 03:46 | that you expressed towards your religion, —Yes — | |
| 03:50 | The rest of us should be expressing as well. —Yes, yes. | |
| 03:54 | It started with the fact that you were brought up in the love of your country | |
| 03:58 | Voilà — of the country, and that at some point | |
| 04:02 | you realized that there’s an incompatibility | |
| 04:06 | between a certain type Islam and | |
| 04:10 | a patriotic life? I cannot understand here. | |
| 04:14 | In fact, you need to know that the original Islam | |
| 04:18 | the true Islam, the paradigm so often mentioned on the TV, | |
| 04:22 | the real Islam is defined by the god Allah in the Quran. | |
| 04:26 | The Quran that was officially transmitted by the prophet Muhammad. | |
| 04:30 | Islam is an Islamic supporter of slavery, is an Islamic misogynist, | |
| 04:34 | is an Islamic enemy of free speech, of free thought, and that criminalizes | |
| 04:38 | freedom of thought. And this is an antithesis of our values | |
| 04:42 | and our customs, which are inspired by the dominant cultural force | |
| 04:46 | in our country: Christian and secular. And to me, in fact, | |
| 04:50 | it’s important . I could have written a critical book | |
| 04:54 | about Judaism, for example or of one of the principal books | |
| 04:58 | of Jewish and Christian religions; and there’s one problem, that the Quran is, in fact, 100% | |
| 05:02 | a narrative coming straight from the god Allah. | |
| 05:06 | That is why Islam cannot evolve. If you were to make a clinical study, | |
| 05:10 | no need to be interested in me, there are 57 Muslim countries in the world, | |
| 05:14 | they are systemically the countries where, if I had to be a woman, | |
| 05:19 | the worst country for me to live in would be a Muslim country. | |
| 05:23 | But there exist countries that live | |
| 05:27 | under the religion of the Quran, and that knew | |
| 05:31 | at some point in their history, how to escape that authority. | |
| 05:35 | I’m thinking about Nasser’s Egypt, I’m thinking about Ataturk’s Turkey; | |
| 05:39 | so there are moments when | |
| 05:43 | the public powers can make Islam coexist | |
| 05:47 | with a system — certainly autocratic — but that has nothing to do with | |
| 05:51 | religion, and a normal practice | |
| 05:55 | of the Muslim religion —Well, already from the relative point of view, | |
| 05:59 | even small conjectural advances | |
| 06:03 | that might have happened in the countries that were ruled by dictators, | |
| 06:07 | who freed themselves, who were getting away from Islam like Ataturk or Nasser, or whoever, | |
| 06:11 | They still are, compared to the Western way of life, horrible countries, | |
| 06:15 | where a woman isn’t free. I’ll give an example that might seem a little controversial, | |
| 06:19 | because my point isn’t to defend colonization, but there are plenty of people | |
| 06:23 | today who deplore the fact that in Muslim countries women | |
| 06:27 | are mistreated, and that free thinkers, the ancient Muslims | |
| 06:31 | over there they get sentenced to stoning or decapitation, and prison, | |
| 06:35 | and often they bring up colonization. Well I’m sorry; | |
| 06:39 | when you look at French who arrived in 1830 in Algeria, to conquer it, | |
| 06:43 | or at the end of the 18th century, starting in 1798 in Egypt, they stumbled upon Muslim countries | |
| 06:47 | that had been Muslim for centuries. They had had plenty of time | |
| 06:51 | to express the true potential of the “original Islam”. Well we stumbled upon… | |
| 06:55 | the French who were colonizing, well, they stumbled upon countries where | |
| 06:59 | women did not go to school, who were less then nothing; they were treated like slaves. | |
| 07:03 | There were slave markets; there was no democracy. Historically Islam has never | |
| 07:07 | managed to create anything of good, that would be able | |
| 07:11 | to defend my personal individual liberties: making love outside of marriage | |
| 07:15 | and believing in what I want and wanting to live in a country where women and | |
| 07:19 | men have the same rights! —Well, there’s still moderate Islam! | |
| 07:24 | In France we have an Islam | |
| 07:28 | that is trying to adhere to — you are giggling — | |
| 07:32 | to republican values! — In fact, in my book I criticize a type of | |
| 07:36 | a main character who is a human-rights Muslim, meaning… —Yes, I’ve seen it. | |
| 07:40 | meaning the Muslim who at the same time doesn’t abandon the conclusion — like 100% of Muslims — | |
| 07:44 | the conclusion that the Quran is a divine, just and salutary book. | |
| 07:48 | It is a conclusion that he has in his head, and it won’t move, but next to that there’s an idea | |
| 07:52 | that he saw in a Western country, and it’s often a narrative that you just presented, | |
| 07:56 | it’s often a Westernized Islamic scholar’s narrative, you must be a realist, not the bearded ones, | |
| 08:00 | of the country Sharia-Crêpe [=Islam Lite], but anyway at the same time there’s a sensible minimum | |
| 08:04 | to the libertarian and egalitarian ideas and values of our country. And they’re trying to transit | |
| 08:08 | in a hypocritical way, trying to run with the hare and hunt with the hounds, | |
| 08:12 | but in the Quran it says that the Muslim husband has an obedient wife; | |
| 08:16 | men give orders to women; if a Muslim woman is disobedient to her husband, | |
| 08:20 | he has to hit her. I’m sorry, It is shocking. —I don’t want to — | |
| 08:24 | I don’t want to become the advocate of —Devil — I don’t want to speak of the Devil. | |
| 08:28 | It’s not what I want to say; it’s me the Devil, it’s common knowledge, | |
| 08:32 | but St. Paul, who wasn’t a Muslim, | |
| 08:36 | he was Jewish, a persecutor, Christian | |
| 08:40 | and persecuted. He does say that a man | |
| 08:44 | has to obey the woman [he meant the opposite?], oh, yes! — Well, therein lies all the difference. | |
| 08:48 | And women have to listen to their husbands! — all the difference, the text that I… | |
| 08:52 | just quoted, comes from the God of Muslims, because 100% | |
| 08:56 | of the Quran is a God’s narrative. This is why Muslim don’t manage to evolve | |
| 09:00 | with their Quran towards philogyny and egalitarian modernity, like we have. | |
| 09:04 | And this text, this is why in no Muslim countries, in no country that follows | |
| 09:08 | the Quran, beating your wife is a crime; while at home, in France, | |
| 09:12 | it’s a crime. The saint you are citing is human. This is why Christians managed | |
| 09:16 | to modernize themselves, this is why Christians, like the Jews, | |
| 09:21 | as well, since Israel is also a Western country, are countries where | |
| 09:25 | women can live under a set of relatively egalitarian laws, | |
| 09:29 | more that any other country in the world! | |
| 09:33 | The Western world is truly the place where women | |
| 09:37 | have the most liberties, and their rights are closest to the rights of men. | |
| 09:41 | And this isn’t possible, in my opinion, in the Muslim world; it will never be possible. | |
| 09:45 | Because, and this is what I am trying to demonstrate in this book, because Islam | |
| 09:49 | unfortunately cannot reform itself, I know that… —Yes, your… | |
| 09:53 | you principal argument, if I understood the book correctly, | |
| 09:57 | is that the Quran comes directly | |
| 10:01 | from God; it is an intangible word | |
| 10:05 | which humans cannot touch without attacking God’s word. | |
| 10:09 | Voilà, correct. The god Allah says it in the Quran; | |
| 10:13 | he says he hates the attitude where you take just a part of the sacred book | |
| 10:17 | and not the rest. He wants Muslims to obey the totality | |
| 10:21 | of the legal code that the Quran is, which is in addition a universalist code, | |
| 10:25 | since this book has a vocation to send us laws | |
| 10:29 | that are to be applied at any time in any place, over the entire Earth, by everybody, until | |
| 10:33 | the day of the Last Judgment. Therefore, for example when I take the law that says that says | |
| 10:37 | that the Muslim husband has the right to hit his wife if she disobeys him. | |
| 10:41 | No Muslim can contest this text that comes from God, without | |
| 10:45 | his omnipotence, omniscience and superior intelligence. There’s no reason to question that. | |
| 10:49 | And me, for example, there’s something that I deplore concerning the human-rightist Muslims, | |
| 10:53 | they like to talk about interpretation; you know? We are told that some texts must be interpreted. | |
| 10:57 | With the human-rightist Muslims, who most of the time are ashamed of their Quran | |
| 11:01 | or who lie and pretend that it’s a book of peace and tolerance, there’s interpretation | |
| 11:05 | only when there are controversial texts. For example when the Quran says that you shouldn’t eat pork, | |
| 11:09 | no Muslim ever told me, “Wait, Majid, this is your interpretation!” When it says | |
| 11:13 | there’s only one God, not several, no Muslim ever told me: “Wait, Majid, this is your interpretation!” | |
| 11:17 | Because not eating pork is to deprive yourself arbitrarily of the meat of an animal, | |
| 11:22 | or believing in one God, where there could be two or three it’s not contradictory to our laws. | |
| 11:26 | On the other hand, when it says that the infidel, the one who thinks differently, | |
| 11:30 | has to be fought and he’ll go to Hell, that he is punished for thinking differently, | |
| 11:34 | he’s punished for his crime of bad faith in the proper sense of the term, or | |
| 11:38 | when it says that a Muslim can hit his wife, all of the sudden there’s interpretation! | |
| 11:42 | But, listen, there must be Muslims | |
| 11:46 | who believe and aren’t applying those rules to the letter. | |
| 11:50 | And who are capable of a more modern practice, more modern form of the religion. | |
| 11:54 | And what do they generally have in common? Knowing the Quran less well | |
| 11:58 | than the devout Muslims. —Oh, you are saying that | |
| 12:02 | the particular thing about a radical Muslim is | |
| 12:06 | that he has legal knowledge of the Quran… —And of the Sunna, yes, | |
| 12:10 | and that he rigorously applies it! —Voilà, contrary to what you could hear. | |
| 12:14 | But you’ll find it everywhere! You have Jews, who do the same, Christians who do the same! | |
| 12:18 | Yes but there’s one thing that you shouldn’t forget. | |
| 12:21 | First, France isn’t in danger of Talmudisation or New-Testamentisation | |
| 12:25 | No, that’s clear, and you could even say that concerning the Jews it’s the opposite! | |
| 12:28 | So, whatever you say about those Jews who might seem “extremist”, I’m just using the word | |
| 12:31 | that the system is using, “extremist”, because extreme, it depends: | |
| 12:38 | for the one who applies the Sharia, it’s me who’s the extremist, you know, but anyway, | |
| 12:42 | they don’t plow into the soldiers while yelling Yahweh Akhbar! Jesus Akhbar! or Buddha Akhbar! | |
| 12:46 | Voilà, all Muslims aren’t terrorists, but we have to note, | |
| 12:50 | that all the jihadists, terrorists, today all the terrorists, what they have in common is | |
| 12:54 | to want to kill someone, who thinks differently from them, and thinking that it’s | |
| 12:58 | a religious duty rewarded by their God, or thinking that this is in a ideological and behavioral | |
| 13:02 | conformity with their prophet. They have in common being Muslim. I am sorry if it’s shocking. | |
| 13:06 | Neither Jews nor Christians are doing this today. I am sorry if it’s shocking, but it’s the truth. | |
| 13:10 | I know, I can admit it, but what is disturbing to me in your reasoning | |
| 13:14 | is the fact that you don’t accord | |
| 13:18 | a space of critical freedom | |
| 13:23 | to any Muslim. I’m under the impression that | |
| 13:27 | for you all the Muslims — of whom you used to be one — | |
| 13:31 | are going to apply the religious text with the same rigour. | |
| 13:35 | But the other day I met, I was in Geneva, with a journalist | |
| 13:39 | originally from Algeria, and I told her about you, | |
| 13:43 | and I explained to her your thesis, | |
| 13:47 | and she said, well she’s very liberal, and she said: | |
| 13:51 | my mother is a practising Muslima, but at the same time she feels | |
| 13:55 | very free concerning the Quran. —Listen, for me, | |
| 13:59 | the sense of my thesis is not to generalize. | |
| 14:03 | I took all the necessary rhetorical precautions : I never say; “Muslims think like that.” | |
| 14:07 | I say I’m talking about Muslims, and I bring up a precise behavior. | |
| 14:11 | As far as I know my book is the first critical and systematic study | |
| 14:15 | which is neither Manichean nor moralist. —It’s true, it’s true! —… meaning | |
| 14:19 | I took the time to give Quran a chance, I tried to see | |
| 14:23 | and underline all its limitations and all its dangers without making a value judgment. | |
| 14:27 | I would like to say that in the absolute, a real Muslim | |
| 14:31 | is an Islamist who applies the Sharia, I consider that | |
| 14:35 | he is closer to the sense of the Quran, which is a misogynist book that promotes slavery | |
| 14:39 | and is the enemy of free thought, | |
| 14:43 | than a Westernized Muslim. I’m trying to tell Muslims | |
| 14:47 | voilà, I’m giving you the base, | |
| 14:51 | the total substance of what are the worst legal texts of your Islam. | |
| 14:55 | Do whatever you like with it, but if you’re hypocritical enough to only take from your sacred book | |
| 14:59 | what is convenient for you and voluntarily discard the rest, | |
| 15:03 | voilà, I consider that you don’t have a coherent attitude. For me, an authentic Muslim | |
| 15:07 | takes all or he takes nothing. That’s what I deplore, concerning the majority | |
| 15:11 | of Islamic scholars who are invited onto TV, and I will never be invited because | |
| 15:16 | an uncle Tom like myself, talking — quotation marks — “like half Eric Zemmours | |
| 15:20 | or like you” — sorry | |
| 15:24 | for using you as the demonizing argument— it’s evident that | |
| 15:28 | I have nothing to do on TV, because on TV the Islamic scholars, the politicians and the media | |
| 15:32 | all have the unshakable conclusion, that is: | |
| 15:36 | whatever happened, the problems of jihad, of terrorism like we had them even yesterday [March 22, 2016] in Brussels — | |
| 15:40 | How do you explain, voilà, we are getting to… | |
| 15:44 | I’m assuming that you still live in a Muslim environment. | |
| 15:48 | Today, not any more, really, since I left Islam, now it’s more complicated. | |
| 15:52 | All the ex-Muslims, almost all the ex-Muslims I’m talking about | |
| 15:56 | a lot of ex-Muslim authors from other countries, | |
| 16:00 | since we are a small close-knit community, we are forced to be careful; at least | |
| 16:04 | we cannot take risks. Me, if I were to have a debate like that | |
| 16:08 | and meet some Muslim, I have no guarantee that I wouldn’t end up dead, | |
| 16:12 | because 80% of Muslims in the world are Sunni, and I exposed the worst laws | |
| 16:16 | of the Sunna; the prophet Muhammad did have say that the one who | |
| 16:20 | leaves Islam has to be killed. And it is serious. It is dangerous. — So explain | |
| 16:24 | in 30 seconds the difference between Shia and Sunni, because very few people know | |
| 16:28 | what it means. Many talk about it, but in my opinion very few know. | |
| 16:32 | So I’m going to give you a personal definition that is politically incorrect. | |
| 16:36 | Their difference, it’s the difference between | |
| 16:40 | the partisans of Ali and of Abu Bakr; but in reality | |
| 16:44 | the direct and indirect family… — the Shia and the Sunni. | |
| 16:48 | When the Prophet died, the ones who followed | |
| 16:52 | Ali, his, son-in-law, | |
| 16:56 | and the others followed his disciple Abu Bakr. But I make no distinction | |
| 17:01 | between the two of them, because there could be forty arbitrary subdivisions | |
| 17:05 | that you could create between them; but I do see one common point that unites them, | |
| 17:09 | which is that all consider the Quran a divine, salutary | |
| 17:13 | and useful book, and that’s already enough. | |
| 17:17 | I don’t necessarily get into the paradigmatic considerations | |
| 17:21 | used by many people. My study isn’t a historical study, it is really a legal study, | |
| 17:25 | and I would like to say that in Iran, which is a Shia country, they still hang | |
| 17:29 | apostates, homosexuals, voilà. it’s still a country | |
| 17:33 | as unwelcoming for women as Saudi Arabia, which is a Sunni country. | |
| 17:37 | Aren’t you taking the risk of | |
| 17:41 | being accused of “amalgamating”? [mixing up good people or things with bad people or things] | |
| 17:45 | I invented the word, since the word “amalgam” is being employed so much | |
| 17:49 | that one has to find a way of generalizing it. Until now | |
| 17:53 | you lumped them together. —Well no, because again, in my book | |
| 17:57 | I target… in fact, my book, it’s funny, many people tell me, “You are criticizing Islam,” | |
| 18:01 | and I answer them, “In fact, in my book I spend more time pointing out | |
| 18:05 | what is in the Quran rather than criticizing it.” When I say for example: “ the Quran says | |
| 18:09 | thieves should have their hands cut off” and someone tells me, | |
| 18:13 | while pointing at this legal part: “you are criticizing Islam.” For me | |
| 18:17 | the person who tells me that, it’s already telling me about her subconscious personal opinion. | |
| 18:21 | That person’s subconscious is telling me that she hates this law. | |
| 18:25 | Because if she didn’t hate it, she should say: “It’s a report”. —But there’s… | |
| 18:29 | I spend more time reporting, and I don’t think I am amalgamating. The reality | |
| 18:33 | of the facts is that it’s an amalgam. In France in 1965 there were 5 mosques, now there are | |
| 18:37 | 2400, officially, and I estimate that this is the Islamisation of France. It’s not an amalgam. | |
| 18:41 | And in the same way, there are 57 Muslim countries in the world. It’s not an amalgam; it’s a fact. | |
| 18:46 | Why were Muslims never able to come up with democracy, equality between | |
| 18:50 | men and women, and abolish slavery by themselves at some point? | |
| 18:54 | Some truths based on clinical reports need to be re-established. | |
| 18:58 | It’s not an amalgam. The reality is making the amalgam. | |
| 19:02 | When things always go in the same direction, like the attack we saw yesterday, again I’m sorry: | |
| 19:06 | I wasn’t surprised that it wasn’t a Shlomo, or a Sven nor a Chang. I didn’t jump | |
| 19:10 | from my chair, saying: oh, la la! An Islamist attack! — OK, OK, Wait. | |
| 19:14 | Let’s not be totalitarian! Well. Because… | |
| 19:22 | those attacks were perpetrated by Muslims, we still cannot say | |
| 19:26 | that all the Muslims are in solidarity with those attacks. | |
| 19:30 | I’ve never said that — Oh, well. —I agree. | |
| 19:34 | On the other hand, in my opinion, we need to ask the question, I would like | |
| 19:38 | that in the public debate, from our politicians or the journalists | |
| 19:42 | not the Islamic scholars who are on TV are all Muslim, it’s completely idiotic! | |
| 19:46 | They all know that the book of Quran is the truth, | |
| 19:50 | and it is the basis for the judgment of what is good and evil, right and wrong, | |
| 19:54 | true and false. I don’t hope to get from them a possible, how to say it? | |
| 19:58 | intellectual enterprise, which would try to suppose, not even to conclude, just to suppose | |
| 20:02 | that the jihadists are possibly acting | |
| 20:06 | from ideology, they’re really trying to implement Islam. —Do you think that… that we do harm, | |
| 20:14 | when hoping for the democratisation — | |
| 20:18 | I’m entering your narrative — of this religion | |
| 20:22 | when giving in, concerning the communitarian question? | |
| 20:26 | Well, it’s more complicated than that. | |
| 20:30 | In fact you have probably noticed | |
| 20:34 | as well that France is Islamising itself more and more. | |
| 20:38 | Demographically. And we are in a democracy. | |
| 20:43 | In a democracy, it’s usually the majority that decides. And the more | |
| 20:47 | the number of Muslims grows in this country, the more their existential problems will have | |
| 20:51 | to be taken into account by politicians. Which is totally normal and I can totally accept it, | |
| 20:55 | just as I can accept that in places where, after one or two generations | |
| 20:59 | Muslims become majority, effectively the mosques grow | |
| 21:03 | and they are re-impregnated by Islam. I do understand it. I’m only saying that | |
| 21:07 | it doesn’t exist — I want someone to find me a clinical report — it doesn’t in the history | |
| 21:11 | a country, a geographical area, where Muslims are a majority and where “coexistence” | |
| 21:15 | with the infidel minority occurs — IT DOESN’T EXIST! I wish | |
| 21:19 | it existed, but it has never existed. Right away… —In Morocco, perhaps… | |
| 21:23 | No! Those are neighborhoods next to each other, those are people who never mix; voilà. | |
| 21:27 | But a Muslim country, above all Morocco, isn’t necessarily the best example, considering the laws | |
| 21:31 | that they have. I just saw it last Summer: they put people in prison because they | |
| 21:35 | were drinking orange juice during the Ramadan. — Yes, it’s true. | |
| 21:39 | And considering that they are notorious [in Morocco] — Was it in Morocco or in Tunisia, | |
| 21:43 | that story about the mini-skirt? I think there were young girls who were charged. | |
| 21:47 | I don’t know what the court decided, because they were wearing mini-skirts. | |
| 21:51 | We, in any case, what I’m trying to say | |
| 21:55 | is that … — Finally. | |
| 21:59 | Look, until the arrival of Giscard d’Estaing | |
| 22:03 | in France, I witnessed the trial of that guy | |
| 22:07 | before the change of the law: a woman caught | |
| 22:11 | in flagrante delicto of adultery like we used to say — was sent | |
| 22:15 | to court! Yes, and the husband who caught her | |
| 22:19 | being cuckolded — to use a language that isn’t judicial — | |
| 22:23 | had extenuating circumstances if he killed her! —This is why | |
| 22:27 | It evolved, and this is why I am concentrating on the present. — It’s true that it evolved. | |
| 22:31 | I’m concentrating on the present. When I criticize the sacred foundations | |
| 22:36 | of my old religion. it isn’t just an intellectual game. | |
| 22:40 | If Muslims lived on their own continent called “Islamia”, and there were no globalisation | |
| 22:44 | and mixing of people, in fact Islam is really a religion that seems | |
| 22:48 | uninteresting to me, useless in its practice. But I have to be interested in it because my goal is | |
| 22:52 | to mobilize and alert my fellow Frenchmen on the danger that Islam constitutes, | |
| 22:56 | that Islamisation of my country would constitute. And in fact … | |
| 23:00 | If I understand you correctly: you are not against Islam | |
| 23:04 | in an Islamic country… —No, I’m not against Islam as a concept; for me, a Muslim who wants to follow | |
| 23:08 | Islam, who wants to deprive himself of eating pork, he wants to deprive himself of wine-drinking, | |
| 23:12 | and who wants to deprive himself of food and drink one month in a year, it’s called Ramadan. | |
| 23:16 | He does what he wants — as long as the sun is shining — he does what he wants, but what annoys me | |
| 23:20 | is as soon as this Islam becomes a majority in entire parts | |
| 23:24 | of our country, and it becomes the dominant cultural power in towns, neighborhoods, | |
| 23:28 | in the boroughs, and that at that point we witness communitarianist demands, | |
| 23:32 | which have an impact on the everyday life and the laws, | |
| 23:36 | and at that point we are witnessing what? We are witnessing | |
| 23:40 | a dominant cultural power that shapes the places that all the French | |
| 23:44 | non-Muslims start to escape. I can be told whatever, but you cannot ignore | |
| 23:48 | people’s natural predisposition to prefer certain type of neighbors rather than others. | |
| 23:52 | You have friends who resemble you at least a little and who have at least some similar interests, | |
| 23:56 | that you follow. You can tell me whatever, but tomorrow if France were to become | |
| 24:00 | majority Muslim, for me the “coexist” wouldn’t be possible with this Muslim majority, | |
| 24:04 | because the sense of the history has always been like that in all the other Muslim countries | |
| 24:08 | I think they’ll have to live next to each other. I don’t wish them to kill each other, | |
| 24:12 | but the “coexist” for me isn’t historically possible with Islam, | |
| 24:16 | because of the fact that Quran is a book that is 100% God’s word, | |
| 24:20 | contrary to Christian or Jewish books, voilà, because out of that those people could evolve and | |
| 24:25 | could initiate an egalitarian and philogynist modernity. | |
| 24:29 | The Ten Commandments were dictated by God. | |
| 24:33 | So. — It says: thou shall not do to thy neighbor… — Whatever we would say. | |
| 24:37 | No Christian or Jew has ever told me: “I have a book that represents | |
| 24:41 | the word, 100% verbatim and legally, of my God, and I have to apply it” | |
| 24:45 | And it’s not a universalist and non-temporary religion either, like the Muslims think, | |
| 24:49 | and for that reason Islam unfortunately cannot evolve. There are many Islamic scholars like | |
| 24:53 | [unintelligible] Bousar. In general, if I understand correctly what she’s saying, it’s: | |
| 24:57 | “You have to dissuade the jihadis from applying the Quran | |
| 25:01 | in its true substance, that gives them the desire to be | |
| 25:05 | bloody killers, and they have to go back to the true, peaceful Islam.” | |
| 25:09 | I think — again, it’s a biased conclusion — I tell Muslims: | |
| 25:13 | “Be real, Muslims; either you apply your legal code totally, | |
| 25:17 | which is absolutely horrible, or you look at the reality and you see | |
| 25:21 | all the limitations of your sacred text, and eventually you take the path that | |
| 25:25 | I and many ex-Muslims before me took, to leave Islam; but at some point the peace | |
| 25:29 | won’t be with Islam, because Islam cannot evolve. It’s a very strong postulate.” | |
| 25:33 | So you have to read this book which is shocking. | |
| 25:37 | You can criticise it, because | |
| 25:41 | It deserves to be exposed to some criticism. Your words aren’t divine. | |
| 25:45 | You’ll agree with me? But it presents a true interest. | |
| 25:49 | Before concluding, because we have used up all our time, | |
| 25:53 | please, try and tell me, if you can manage it in this brief time, how do you explain the Islamic State? | |
| 26:01 | How do I explain the Islamic State? Well, what I think, | |
| 26:05 | in fact, is what I already told you. The French, who arrived | |
| 26:09 | in what wasn’t yet Algeria, or in Egypt, have noticed a conquering Islam | |
| 26:13 | that dominated North Africa and the Middle East, and an Islam | |
| 26:18 | that has always been the same since the death of the prophet Muhammad, which never evolved. | |
| 26:22 | Because the sense of the Quran is immutable. I think that colonization | |
| 26:26 | was a historical parenthesis that smothered with the venality | |
| 26:30 | of the politicians what we call “Islamism”. For me Islam is Islamist in its essence. | |
| 26:34 | Islamism and Quranism, I prefer to say. And I think that in fact | |
| 26:38 | today’s Islamic State, the destabilization of a part of the Muslim world | |
| 26:42 | is finally only an almost logical consequence, | |
| 26:46 | unfortunately, for the potent end of local dictators, | |
| 26:50 | like Saddam Hussein, or like others through the Arab-Muslim word. | |
| 26:54 | It’s a horrible thing to say, but I’m under impression that Muslims | |
| 26:58 | can only choose between a dictator or “Islamism”. | |
| 27:02 | I wish there were a third possible solution; I don’t know if it’s possible, but in any case | |
| 27:06 | the Islamic State — to finish with a shocking statement— for me it’s just | |
| 27:10 | in fact Saudi Arabia, the Islamic State, but at an industrial level. That’s all. | |
| 27:14 | Saudi Arabia, they are potentially our allies, as François Hollande keeps saying, | |
| 27:18 | all because of economic interests. But in reality, | |
| 27:22 | the Islamic State is only applying the true Quran, the true Islam | |
| 27:26 | from the sacred texts, as desired by the prophet Muhammad and by the god Allah; | |
| 27:30 | and voilà, and I would like a public debate in France. It’s not normal that France, | |
| 27:34 | which is a secular country — it’s not normal that you cannot criticize Islam there, it’s not normal | |
| 27:38 | that it’s dangerous to one’s life, like it’s dangerous to my life that I wrote this book. —True. | |
| 27:42 | To be able to criticize Islam. —Majid, one must read this book. | |
| 27:46 | Allow me to conclude by quoting a poet: | |
| 27:50 | an ancient delinquent | |
| 27:54 | a thug, a liar | |
| 27:58 | a cheater: François Villon: [a medieval French poet] | |
| 28:03 | “Brothers, men who live after us, Let not your hearts be hardened against us | |
| 28:07 | Because if you have pity on us poor men | |
| 28:11 | God will have more mercy toward you.” | |
| 28:15 | [“The Ballad of the Hanged Men”, translated by Craig E. Bertolet] |
I don’t know if the interviewer was just playing devil’s advocate, but the equalization brought out a lot of groans in me. Why must they do that? What is the point of it?
Firstly: Thanks for the work of Ava Lon, Vlad Tepes and last but not least the Baron. It’s a big piece and lots of work behind the coulisses.
People have criticised the “Interviewer” (Gilbert Collard) and perhaps he was playing the devil’s advoctae too well, but, interviewing on TV Libertés is not his day job.
He is a MP for Marine LePen’s “Front National”, and a great personal supporter of MARION LePen who (according to my own fearless, if not always accurate predictions ) one day will be Président and who is quite significantly to the “Right” of Marine’s Vice “Phillipot” and even of her aunt. See him in full flight here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j-i1XquVyo
PS: I like him a lot !
Oh, and PPS:
His starsign is “Gemini”, just like Donald Trump’s ! So there ! ;)