Ex-Muslim: “For me Islam is Islamist in Its Essence”

Majid Oukacha is an apostate from Islam who was born in France of North African ancestry. He has written a book in which he performs a critical analysis of Islam, and particularly of its core texts, the Koran and the Sunna.

The following video is an interview with Mr. Oukacha by Gilbert Collard on TV Libertés. It was recorded last spring, the day after the terrorist attacks in Brussels.

Many thanks to Ava Lon for the translation, and to Vlad Tepes for the subtitling:


00:16   Good evening. Welcome, Majid Oukacha.
00:20   I’m careful not to butcher your name, because like me, you don’t like your name being mispronounced.
00:24   And you’re right, — Yeah, —So I invited you tonight
00:28   because I discovered you in a video
00:32   and I told myself: this guy is crazy! He is taking a position on Islam, which, coming from
00:40   a Muslim, even if now you’re an agnostic,
00:44   is completely surprising. So, before getting into
00:48   the subject, I have to tell you that I respect
00:52   all religions, even religions of those who have none.
00:56   So your book has to be read,
01:00   a little a law study; because you
01:04   are conducting a study, a criticism in good standing:
01:08   systematic, judicial, literal of Quran.
01:12   I would like to ask you first of all
01:16   why a young man who used to be Muslim,
01:20   who was, perhaps, a practising Muslim,
01:24   why did he feel the need to undertake this criticism?
01:28   About which I also have some objections, but we’ll talk about that later.
01:32   So why did you feel that you had to write this book
01:36   that lets us enter the Quran, but which at the same time
01:41   constitutes a radical criticism, if I can use this term,
01:45   of the Quran? —Good evening, first of all, thank you for your
01:49   invitation. In fact I am a… I consider myself
01:53   a French patriot, who cares about France. I get up every morning
01:57   asking myself what I can do for France before asking what France could do for me.
02:01   I was born and I grew up in a France, in fact, that I can recognize less and less
02:05   with the passing years. And I rather consider myself lucky,
02:09   because I was born in the late eighties. Anyway, when you are
02:13   a young Frenchman whose parents or grandparents are originally from
02:17   Morocco, Algeria or Tunisia with
02:21   say, the ideological weight of
02:25   the left that is trying to divide people in order to better rule,
02:29   and which, in general, is trying to make people like me
02:33   see the world in a binary and belligerent way, and to think
02:37   that they have some sort of tribal revenge to take
02:41   on France or they are mixed race and that the whites
02:45   consider themselves superior; in any case I was lucky, because I was taught to love France;
02:49   it wasn’t incompatible with the Islam with which I was educated.
02:53   I was sent to the mosque at 8-9 years old, but my parents always taught me to love
02:57   and respect France and to consider myself French. Most young French people
03:01   like me, originally from Maghreb and who have dual nationality
03:05   later or just French in any case,
03:09   it’s true that, voilà, they have
03:13   a point of view of double identity, sometimes contradictory,
03:17   because Islam, for me who studied the Quran
03:21   at 18 years old, I dived inside, I understood that
03:25   Islam is a culture,
03:29   that contradicts Western culture, that contradicts the culture of
03:34   Western countries, meaning: Europe, North America, Israel or Australia.
03:38   I don’t understand one thing. I know you can talk easily without pausing.
03:42   If I understand correctly, the criticism
03:46   that you expressed towards your religion, —Yes —
03:50   The rest of us should be expressing as well. —Yes, yes.
03:54   It started with the fact that you were brought up in the love of your country
03:58   Voilà — of the country, and that at some point
04:02   you realized that there’s an incompatibility
04:06   between a certain type Islam and
04:10   a patriotic life? I cannot understand here.
04:14   In fact, you need to know that the original Islam
04:18   the true Islam, the paradigm so often mentioned on the TV,
04:22   the real Islam is defined by the god Allah in the Quran.
04:26   The Quran that was officially transmitted by the prophet Muhammad.
04:30   Islam is an Islamic supporter of slavery, is an Islamic misogynist,
04:34   is an Islamic enemy of free speech, of free thought, and that criminalizes
04:38   freedom of thought. And this is an antithesis of our values
04:42   and our customs, which are inspired by the dominant cultural force
04:46   in our country: Christian and secular. And to me, in fact,
04:50   it’s important . I could have written a critical book
04:54   about Judaism, for example or of one of the principal books
04:58   of Jewish and Christian religions; and there’s one problem, that the Quran is, in fact, 100%
05:02   a narrative coming straight from the god Allah.
05:06   That is why Islam cannot evolve. If you were to make a clinical study,
05:10   no need to be interested in me, there are 57 Muslim countries in the world,
05:14   they are systemically the countries where, if I had to be a woman,
05:19   the worst country for me to live in would be a Muslim country.
05:23   But there exist countries that live
05:27   under the religion of the Quran, and that knew
05:31   at some point in their history, how to escape that authority.
05:35   I’m thinking about Nasser’s Egypt, I’m thinking about Ataturk’s Turkey;
05:39   so there are moments when
05:43   the public powers can make Islam coexist
05:47   with a system — certainly autocratic — but that has nothing to do with
05:51   religion, and a normal practice
05:55   of the Muslim religion —Well, already from the relative point of view,
05:59   even small conjectural advances
06:03   that might have happened in the countries that were ruled by dictators,
06:07   who freed themselves, who were getting away from Islam like Ataturk or Nasser, or whoever,
06:11   They still are, compared to the Western way of life, horrible countries,
06:15   where a woman isn’t free. I’ll give an example that might seem a little controversial,
06:19   because my point isn’t to defend colonization, but there are plenty of people
06:23   today who deplore the fact that in Muslim countries women
06:27   are mistreated, and that free thinkers, the ancient Muslims
06:31   over there they get sentenced to stoning or decapitation, and prison,
06:35   and often they bring up colonization. Well I’m sorry;
06:39   when you look at French who arrived in 1830 in Algeria, to conquer it,
06:43   or at the end of the 18th century, starting in 1798 in Egypt, they stumbled upon Muslim countries
06:47   that had been Muslim for centuries. They had had plenty of time
06:51   to express the true potential of the “original Islam”. Well we stumbled upon…
06:55   the French who were colonizing, well, they stumbled upon countries where
06:59   women did not go to school, who were less then nothing; they were treated like slaves.
07:03   There were slave markets; there was no democracy. Historically Islam has never
07:07   managed to create anything of good, that would be able
07:11   to defend my personal individual liberties: making love outside of marriage
07:15   and believing in what I want and wanting to live in a country where women and
07:19   men have the same rights! —Well, there’s still moderate Islam!
07:24   In France we have an Islam
07:28   that is trying to adhere to — you are giggling —
07:32   to republican values! — In fact, in my book I criticize a type of
07:36   a main character who is a human-rights Muslim, meaning… —Yes, I’ve seen it.
07:40   meaning the Muslim who at the same time doesn’t abandon the conclusion — like 100% of Muslims —
07:44   the conclusion that the Quran is a divine, just and salutary book.
07:48   It is a conclusion that he has in his head, and it won’t move, but next to that there’s an idea
07:52   that he saw in a Western country, and it’s often a narrative that you just presented,
07:56   it’s often a Westernized Islamic scholar’s narrative, you must be a realist, not the bearded ones,
08:00   of the country Sharia-Crêpe [=Islam Lite], but anyway at the same time there’s a sensible minimum
08:04   to the libertarian and egalitarian ideas and values of our country. And they’re trying to transit
08:08   in a hypocritical way, trying to run with the hare and hunt with the hounds,
08:12   but in the Quran it says that the Muslim husband has an obedient wife;
08:16   men give orders to women; if a Muslim woman is disobedient to her husband,
08:20   he has to hit her. I’m sorry, It is shocking. —I don’t want to —
08:24   I don’t want to become the advocate of —Devil — I don’t want to speak of the Devil.
08:28   It’s not what I want to say; it’s me the Devil, it’s common knowledge,
08:32   but St. Paul, who wasn’t a Muslim,
08:36   he was Jewish, a persecutor, Christian
08:40   and persecuted. He does say that a man
08:44   has to obey the woman [he meant the opposite?], oh, yes! — Well, therein lies all the difference.
08:48   And women have to listen to their husbands! — all the difference, the text that I…
08:52   just quoted, comes from the God of Muslims, because 100%
08:56   of the Quran is a God’s narrative. This is why Muslim don’t manage to evolve
09:00   with their Quran towards philogyny and egalitarian modernity, like we have.
09:04   And this text, this is why in no Muslim countries, in no country that follows
09:08   the Quran, beating your wife is a crime; while at home, in France,
09:12   it’s a crime. The saint you are citing is human. This is why Christians managed
09:16   to modernize themselves, this is why Christians, like the Jews,
09:21   as well, since Israel is also a Western country, are countries where
09:25   women can live under a set of relatively egalitarian laws,
09:29   more that any other country in the world!
09:33   The Western world is truly the place where women
09:37   have the most liberties, and their rights are closest to the rights of men.
09:41   And this isn’t possible, in my opinion, in the Muslim world; it will never be possible.
09:45   Because, and this is what I am trying to demonstrate in this book, because Islam
09:49   unfortunately cannot reform itself, I know that… —Yes, your…
09:53   you principal argument, if I understood the book correctly,
09:57   is that the Quran comes directly
10:01   from God; it is an intangible word
10:05   which humans cannot touch without attacking God’s word.
10:09   Voilà, correct. The god Allah says it in the Quran;
10:13   he says he hates the attitude where you take just a part of the sacred book
10:17   and not the rest. He wants Muslims to obey the totality
10:21   of the legal code that the Quran is, which is in addition a universalist code,
10:25   since this book has a vocation to send us laws
10:29   that are to be applied at any time in any place, over the entire Earth, by everybody, until
10:33   the day of the Last Judgment. Therefore, for example when I take the law that says that says
10:37   that the Muslim husband has the right to hit his wife if she disobeys him.
10:41   No Muslim can contest this text that comes from God, without
10:45   his omnipotence, omniscience and superior intelligence. There’s no reason to question that.
10:49   And me, for example, there’s something that I deplore concerning the human-rightist Muslims,
10:53   they like to talk about interpretation; you know? We are told that some texts must be interpreted.
10:57   With the human-rightist Muslims, who most of the time are ashamed of their Quran
11:01   or who lie and pretend that it’s a book of peace and tolerance, there’s interpretation
11:05   only when there are controversial texts. For example when the Quran says that you shouldn’t eat pork,
11:09   no Muslim ever told me, “Wait, Majid, this is your interpretation!” When it says
11:13   there’s only one God, not several, no Muslim ever told me: “Wait, Majid, this is your interpretation!”
11:17   Because not eating pork is to deprive yourself arbitrarily of the meat of an animal,
11:22   or believing in one God, where there could be two or three it’s not contradictory to our laws.
11:26   On the other hand, when it says that the infidel, the one who thinks differently,
11:30   has to be fought and he’ll go to Hell, that he is punished for thinking differently,
11:34   he’s punished for his crime of bad faith in the proper sense of the term, or
11:38   when it says that a Muslim can hit his wife, all of the sudden there’s interpretation!
11:42   But, listen, there must be Muslims
11:46   who believe and aren’t applying those rules to the letter.
11:50   And who are capable of a more modern practice, more modern form of the religion.
11:54   And what do they generally have in common? Knowing the Quran less well
11:58   than the devout Muslims. —Oh, you are saying that
12:02   the particular thing about a radical Muslim is
12:06   that he has legal knowledge of the Quran… —And of the Sunna, yes,
12:10   and that he rigorously applies it! —Voilà, contrary to what you could hear.
12:14   But you’ll find it everywhere! You have Jews, who do the same, Christians who do the same!
12:18   Yes but there’s one thing that you shouldn’t forget.
12:21   First, France isn’t in danger of Talmudisation or New-Testamentisation
12:25   No, that’s clear, and you could even say that concerning the Jews it’s the opposite!
12:28   So, whatever you say about those Jews who might seem “extremist”, I’m just using the word
12:31   that the system is using, “extremist”, because extreme, it depends:
12:38   for the one who applies the Sharia, it’s me who’s the extremist, you know, but anyway,
12:42   they don’t plow into the soldiers while yelling Yahweh Akhbar! Jesus Akhbar! or Buddha Akhbar!
12:46   Voilà, all Muslims aren’t terrorists, but we have to note,
12:50   that all the jihadists, terrorists, today all the terrorists, what they have in common is
12:54   to want to kill someone, who thinks differently from them, and thinking that it’s
12:58   a religious duty rewarded by their God, or thinking that this is in a ideological and behavioral
13:02   conformity with their prophet. They have in common being Muslim. I am sorry if it’s shocking.
13:06   Neither Jews nor Christians are doing this today. I am sorry if it’s shocking, but it’s the truth.
13:10   I know, I can admit it, but what is disturbing to me in your reasoning
13:14   is the fact that you don’t accord
13:18   a space of critical freedom
13:23   to any Muslim. I’m under the impression that
13:27   for you all the Muslims — of whom you used to be one —
13:31   are going to apply the religious text with the same rigour.
13:35   But the other day I met, I was in Geneva, with a journalist
13:39   originally from Algeria, and I told her about you,
13:43   and I explained to her your thesis,
13:47   and she said, well she’s very liberal, and she said:
13:51   my mother is a practising Muslima, but at the same time she feels
13:55   very free concerning the Quran. —Listen, for me,
13:59   the sense of my thesis is not to generalize.
14:03   I took all the necessary rhetorical precautions : I never say; “Muslims think like that.”
14:07   I say I’m talking about Muslims, and I bring up a precise behavior.
14:11   As far as I know my book is the first critical and systematic study
14:15   which is neither Manichean nor moralist. —It’s true, it’s true! —… meaning
14:19   I took the time to give Quran a chance, I tried to see
14:23   and underline all its limitations and all its dangers without making a value judgment.
14:27   I would like to say that in the absolute, a real Muslim
14:31   is an Islamist who applies the Sharia, I consider that
14:35   he is closer to the sense of the Quran, which is a misogynist book that promotes slavery
14:39   and is the enemy of free thought,
14:43   than a Westernized Muslim. I’m trying to tell Muslims
14:47   voilà, I’m giving you the base,
14:51   the total substance of what are the worst legal texts of your Islam.
14:55   Do whatever you like with it, but if you’re hypocritical enough to only take from your sacred book
14:59   what is convenient for you and voluntarily discard the rest,
15:03   voilà, I consider that you don’t have a coherent attitude. For me, an authentic Muslim
15:07   takes all or he takes nothing. That’s what I deplore, concerning the majority
15:11   of Islamic scholars who are invited onto TV, and I will never be invited because
15:16   an uncle Tom like myself, talking — quotation marks — “like half Eric Zemmours
15:20   or like you” — sorry
15:24   for using you as the demonizing argument— it’s evident that
15:28   I have nothing to do on TV, because on TV the Islamic scholars, the politicians and the media
15:32   all have the unshakable conclusion, that is:
15:36   whatever happened, the problems of jihad, of terrorism like we had them even yesterday [March 22, 2016] in Brussels —
15:40   How do you explain, voilà, we are getting to…
15:44   I’m assuming that you still live in a Muslim environment.
15:48   Today, not any more, really, since I left Islam, now it’s more complicated.
15:52   All the ex-Muslims, almost all the ex-Muslims I’m talking about
15:56   a lot of ex-Muslim authors from other countries,
16:00   since we are a small close-knit community, we are forced to be careful; at least
16:04   we cannot take risks. Me, if I were to have a debate like that
16:08   and meet some Muslim, I have no guarantee that I wouldn’t end up dead,
16:12   because 80% of Muslims in the world are Sunni, and I exposed the worst laws
16:16   of the Sunna; the prophet Muhammad did have say that the one who
16:20   leaves Islam has to be killed. And it is serious. It is dangerous. — So explain
16:24   in 30 seconds the difference between Shia and Sunni, because very few people know
16:28   what it means. Many talk about it, but in my opinion very few know.
16:32   So I’m going to give you a personal definition that is politically incorrect.
16:36   Their difference, it’s the difference between
16:40   the partisans of Ali and of Abu Bakr; but in reality
16:44   the direct and indirect family… — the Shia and the Sunni.
16:48   When the Prophet died, the ones who followed
16:52   Ali, his, son-in-law,
16:56   and the others followed his disciple Abu Bakr. But I make no distinction
17:01   between the two of them, because there could be forty arbitrary subdivisions
17:05   that you could create between them; but I do see one common point that unites them,
17:09   which is that all consider the Quran a divine, salutary
17:13   and useful book, and that’s already enough.
17:17   I don’t necessarily get into the paradigmatic considerations
17:21   used by many people. My study isn’t a historical study, it is really a legal study,
17:25   and I would like to say that in Iran, which is a Shia country, they still hang
17:29   apostates, homosexuals, voilà. it’s still a country
17:33   as unwelcoming for women as Saudi Arabia, which is a Sunni country.
17:37   Aren’t you taking the risk of
17:41   being accused of “amalgamating”? [mixing up good people or things with bad people or things]
17:45   I invented the word, since the word “amalgam” is being employed so much
17:49   that one has to find a way of generalizing it. Until now
17:53   you lumped them together. —Well no, because again, in my book
17:57   I target… in fact, my book, it’s funny, many people tell me, “You are criticizing Islam,”
18:01   and I answer them, “In fact, in my book I spend more time pointing out
18:05   what is in the Quran rather than criticizing it.” When I say for example: “ the Quran says
18:09   thieves should have their hands cut off” and someone tells me,
18:13   while pointing at this legal part: “you are criticizing Islam.” For me
18:17   the person who tells me that, it’s already telling me about her subconscious personal opinion.
18:21   That person’s subconscious is telling me that she hates this law.
18:25   Because if she didn’t hate it, she should say: “It’s a report”. —But there’s…
18:29   I spend more time reporting, and I don’t think I am amalgamating. The reality
18:33   of the facts is that it’s an amalgam. In France in 1965 there were 5 mosques, now there are
18:37   2400, officially, and I estimate that this is the Islamisation of France. It’s not an amalgam.
18:41   And in the same way, there are 57 Muslim countries in the world. It’s not an amalgam; it’s a fact.
18:46   Why were Muslims never able to come up with democracy, equality between
18:50   men and women, and abolish slavery by themselves at some point?
18:54   Some truths based on clinical reports need to be re-established.
18:58   It’s not an amalgam. The reality is making the amalgam.
19:02   When things always go in the same direction, like the attack we saw yesterday, again I’m sorry:
19:06   I wasn’t surprised that it wasn’t a Shlomo, or a Sven nor a Chang. I didn’t jump
19:10   from my chair, saying: oh, la la! An Islamist attack! — OK, OK, Wait.
19:14   Let’s not be totalitarian! Well. Because…
19:22   those attacks were perpetrated by Muslims, we still cannot say
19:26   that all the Muslims are in solidarity with those attacks.
19:30   I’ve never said that — Oh, well. —I agree.
19:34   On the other hand, in my opinion, we need to ask the question, I would like
19:38   that in the public debate, from our politicians or the journalists
19:42   not the Islamic scholars who are on TV are all Muslim, it’s completely idiotic!
19:46   They all know that the book of Quran is the truth,
19:50   and it is the basis for the judgment of what is good and evil, right and wrong,
19:54   true and false. I don’t hope to get from them a possible, how to say it?
19:58   intellectual enterprise, which would try to suppose, not even to conclude, just to suppose
20:02   that the jihadists are possibly acting
20:06   from ideology, they’re really trying to implement Islam. —Do you think that… that we do harm,
20:14   when hoping for the democratisation —
20:18   I’m entering your narrative — of this religion
20:22   when giving in, concerning the communitarian question?
20:26   Well, it’s more complicated than that.
20:30   In fact you have probably noticed
20:34   as well that France is Islamising itself more and more.
20:38   Demographically. And we are in a democracy.
20:43   In a democracy, it’s usually the majority that decides. And the more
20:47   the number of Muslims grows in this country, the more their existential problems will have
20:51   to be taken into account by politicians. Which is totally normal and I can totally accept it,
20:55   just as I can accept that in places where, after one or two generations
20:59   Muslims become majority, effectively the mosques grow
21:03   and they are re-impregnated by Islam. I do understand it. I’m only saying that
21:07   it doesn’t exist — I want someone to find me a clinical report — it doesn’t in the history
21:11   a country, a geographical area, where Muslims are a majority and where “coexistence”
21:15   with the infidel minority occurs — IT DOESN’T EXIST! I wish
21:19   it existed, but it has never existed. Right away… —In Morocco, perhaps…
21:23   No! Those are neighborhoods next to each other, those are people who never mix; voilà.
21:27   But a Muslim country, above all Morocco, isn’t necessarily the best example, considering the laws
21:31   that they have. I just saw it last Summer: they put people in prison because they
21:35   were drinking orange juice during the Ramadan. — Yes, it’s true.
21:39   And considering that they are notorious [in Morocco] — Was it in Morocco or in Tunisia,
21:43   that story about the mini-skirt? I think there were young girls who were charged.
21:47   I don’t know what the court decided, because they were wearing mini-skirts.
21:51   We, in any case, what I’m trying to say
21:55   is that … — Finally.
21:59   Look, until the arrival of Giscard d’Estaing
22:03   in France, I witnessed the trial of that guy
22:07   before the change of the law: a woman caught
22:11   in flagrante delicto of adultery like we used to say — was sent
22:15   to court! Yes, and the husband who caught her
22:19   being cuckolded — to use a language that isn’t judicial —
22:23   had extenuating circumstances if he killed her! —This is why
22:27   It evolved, and this is why I am concentrating on the present. — It’s true that it evolved.
22:31   I’m concentrating on the present. When I criticize the sacred foundations
22:36   of my old religion. it isn’t just an intellectual game.
22:40   If Muslims lived on their own continent called “Islamia”, and there were no globalisation
22:44   and mixing of people, in fact Islam is really a religion that seems
22:48   uninteresting to me, useless in its practice. But I have to be interested in it because my goal is
22:52   to mobilize and alert my fellow Frenchmen on the danger that Islam constitutes,
22:56   that Islamisation of my country would constitute. And in fact …
23:00   If I understand you correctly: you are not against Islam
23:04   in an Islamic country… —No, I’m not against Islam as a concept; for me, a Muslim who wants to follow
23:08   Islam, who wants to deprive himself of eating pork, he wants to deprive himself of wine-drinking,
23:12   and who wants to deprive himself of food and drink one month in a year, it’s called Ramadan.
23:16   He does what he wants — as long as the sun is shining — he does what he wants, but what annoys me
23:20   is as soon as this Islam becomes a majority in entire parts
23:24   of our country, and it becomes the dominant cultural power in towns, neighborhoods,
23:28   in the boroughs, and that at that point we witness communitarianist demands,
23:32   which have an impact on the everyday life and the laws,
23:36   and at that point we are witnessing what? We are witnessing
23:40   a dominant cultural power that shapes the places that all the French
23:44   non-Muslims start to escape. I can be told whatever, but you cannot ignore
23:48   people’s natural predisposition to prefer certain type of neighbors rather than others.
23:52   You have friends who resemble you at least a little and who have at least some similar interests,
23:56   that you follow. You can tell me whatever, but tomorrow if France were to become
24:00   majority Muslim, for me the “coexist” wouldn’t be possible with this Muslim majority,
24:04   because the sense of the history has always been like that in all the other Muslim countries
24:08   I think they’ll have to live next to each other. I don’t wish them to kill each other,
24:12   but the “coexist” for me isn’t historically possible with Islam,
24:16   because of the fact that Quran is a book that is 100% God’s word,
24:20   contrary to Christian or Jewish books, voilà, because out of that those people could evolve and
24:25   could initiate an egalitarian and philogynist modernity.
24:29   The Ten Commandments were dictated by God.
24:33   So. — It says: thou shall not do to thy neighbor… — Whatever we would say.
24:37   No Christian or Jew has ever told me: “I have a book that represents
24:41   the word, 100% verbatim and legally, of my God, and I have to apply it”
24:45   And it’s not a universalist and non-temporary religion either, like the Muslims think,
24:49   and for that reason Islam unfortunately cannot evolve. There are many Islamic scholars like
24:53   [unintelligible] Bousar. In general, if I understand correctly what she’s saying, it’s:
24:57   “You have to dissuade the jihadis from applying the Quran
25:01   in its true substance, that gives them the desire to be
25:05   bloody killers, and they have to go back to the true, peaceful Islam.”
25:09   I think — again, it’s a biased conclusion — I tell Muslims:
25:13   “Be real, Muslims; either you apply your legal code totally,
25:17   which is absolutely horrible, or you look at the reality and you see
25:21   all the limitations of your sacred text, and eventually you take the path that
25:25   I and many ex-Muslims before me took, to leave Islam; but at some point the peace
25:29   won’t be with Islam, because Islam cannot evolve. It’s a very strong postulate.”
25:33   So you have to read this book which is shocking.
25:37   You can criticise it, because
25:41   It deserves to be exposed to some criticism. Your words aren’t divine.
25:45   You’ll agree with me? But it presents a true interest.
25:49   Before concluding, because we have used up all our time,
25:53   please, try and tell me, if you can manage it in this brief time, how do you explain the Islamic State?
26:01   How do I explain the Islamic State? Well, what I think,
26:05   in fact, is what I already told you. The French, who arrived
26:09   in what wasn’t yet Algeria, or in Egypt, have noticed a conquering Islam
26:13   that dominated North Africa and the Middle East, and an Islam
26:18   that has always been the same since the death of the prophet Muhammad, which never evolved.
26:22   Because the sense of the Quran is immutable. I think that colonization
26:26   was a historical parenthesis that smothered with the venality
26:30   of the politicians what we call “Islamism”. For me Islam is Islamist in its essence.
26:34   Islamism and Quranism, I prefer to say. And I think that in fact
26:38   today’s Islamic State, the destabilization of a part of the Muslim world
26:42   is finally only an almost logical consequence,
26:46   unfortunately, for the potent end of local dictators,
26:50   like Saddam Hussein, or like others through the Arab-Muslim word.
26:54   It’s a horrible thing to say, but I’m under impression that Muslims
26:58   can only choose between a dictator or “Islamism”.
27:02   I wish there were a third possible solution; I don’t know if it’s possible, but in any case
27:06   the Islamic State — to finish with a shocking statement— for me it’s just
27:10   in fact Saudi Arabia, the Islamic State, but at an industrial level. That’s all.
27:14   Saudi Arabia, they are potentially our allies, as François Hollande keeps saying,
27:18   all because of economic interests. But in reality,
27:22   the Islamic State is only applying the true Quran, the true Islam
27:26   from the sacred texts, as desired by the prophet Muhammad and by the god Allah;
27:30   and voilà, and I would like a public debate in France. It’s not normal that France,
27:34   which is a secular country — it’s not normal that you cannot criticize Islam there, it’s not normal
27:38   that it’s dangerous to one’s life, like it’s dangerous to my life that I wrote this book. —True.
27:42   To be able to criticize Islam. —Majid, one must read this book.
27:46   Allow me to conclude by quoting a poet:
27:50   an ancient delinquent
27:54   a thug, a liar
27:58   a cheater: François Villon: [a medieval French poet]
28:03   “Brothers, men who live after us, Let not your hearts be hardened against us
28:07   Because if you have pity on us poor men
28:11   God will have more mercy toward you.”
28:15   [“The Ballad of the Hanged Men”, translated by Craig E. Bertolet]

3 thoughts on “Ex-Muslim: “For me Islam is Islamist in Its Essence”

  1. I don’t know if the interviewer was just playing devil’s advocate, but the equalization brought out a lot of groans in me. Why must they do that? What is the point of it?

  2. Firstly: Thanks for the work of Ava Lon, Vlad Tepes and last but not least the Baron. It’s a big piece and lots of work behind the coulisses.

    People have criticised the “Interviewer” (Gilbert Collard) and perhaps he was playing the devil’s advoctae too well, but, interviewing on TV Libertés is not his day job.

    He is a MP for Marine LePen’s “Front National”, and a great personal supporter of MARION LePen who (according to my own fearless, if not always accurate predictions ) one day will be Président and who is quite significantly to the “Right” of Marine’s Vice “Phillipot” and even of her aunt. See him in full flight here:


    PS: I like him a lot !

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