On Islam, “Islamism”, and Academic Straitjackets

My post from earlier today on the “Moderate Muslim” provoked more discussion than I expected. A commenter named Jeff wrote at length about Islamism, conspiracy theories about funding from Gulf States, and the damage that Gates of Vienna is doing.

He said: “But someone has to challenge these kinds of spurious claims, which can only have harmful effects.”

My response is below.

When I started out in this line of work, my position was much like yours. Whenever commenters said, “There are no ‘moderate’ Muslims,” I replied, “The jury’s still out — we don’t know that yet.”

That was at least twelve years ago. For the next few years I studied Islam intensively. And above all, I studied the statistical evidence — as Christ said, “By their fruits ye shall know them.” The statistical evidence says that “moderate” Muslims are few indeed. Repeated surveys demonstrate that a large minority of Muslims — and in some cases a majority — tell pollsters that they support what you call “Islamism”. That is, they believe violence and terrorism against the kuffar are justified.

I would never assert that there are no “moderate” Muslims. Zuhdi Jasser, for example, seems totally sincere, a decent fellow who wants his religion to be as peaceful and fulfilling as Christianity or Buddhism. But he is a very isolated case. The number of his followers — his co-religionists, that is; not the earnest non-Muslims who fervently hope that he represents the future of Islam — could sit comfortably in a Lincoln Town Car with plenty of room left over for luggage.

There is no evidence of any significant population of “moderate” Muslims anywhere in the world. Take, for example, the recent “Dozen-Muslim March Against Terror” in Germany, where only a couple of hundred people showed up — and the vast majority of those were native German Gutmenschen, and not Muslims.

There has never been an instance when thousands of Muslims took to the streets to protest against “Islamism”. Not a single one. The only time thousands of Muslims take to the streets is to protest some perceived slight committed by the kuffar. Or to denounce Israel’s treatment of the “Palestinians”. Or when someone draws a cartoon of Mohammed — then hundreds of thousands of Muslims take to the streets. Not only carrying banners and chanting slogans, but also burning cars and buildings, looting businesses, and assaulting people, sometimes with fatal consequences. And what do the “moderates” say about such events? Not a peep, at least not from more than a handful.

There may be a fair number of Muslims who hold “moderate” opinions, who think that Islam should not be spread by the sword, contrary to its core scriptures. Who object to the killing of apostates — also required by its core scriptures. Who think that a woman’s legal testimony should carry more than half the weight of a man’s — despite the fact that all major schools of Islamic law, Sunni and Shi’ite, state that requirement plainly.

There may be Muslims who think like that, but they wisely keep quiet, because they know they can be killed if they ever state their views publicly. That’s how Islam prevents a “moderate” version of itself from every coming into existence — it kills anyone who pops up and proclaims it.

One final point: There is no such thing as “Islamism”. It doesn’t exist among Muslims. It is entirely a creation of Western analysts who hope that an “extremist” version of Islam can be identified, isolated, and eliminated. But that’s wishful thinking — Muslims themselves don’t recognize such distinctions. As Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said: “There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that’s it.” He’s a devout Muslim himself, so he should know.

So those who seek to elevate the “moderates” and isolate the “Islamists” are pursuing a chimera. They have constructed an imaginary ideology out of fluff and gossamer. The thing simply doesn’t exist.

This is an awful, horrible conclusion to have reached. When the truth of it first sank in about ten years ago, for weeks I was filled with dread and depression at the thought of what must lie ahead: Yes, we are at war with a billion and a half people who want to kill us, enslave us, and abolish our culture. The 21st century may well outdo the 20th in fire and blood and slaughter.

But this is the sad truth of our times. There’s no point in entertaining pretty lies.

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One more point: in your academic work, you presumably receive funding from endowed non-profit organizations, or universities, or something similar. If you ever came to the same conclusions that I have reached, you would lose your funding, because there are almost no academic institutions that will permit a point of view like mine.

I’m fortunate not to live under such constraints. We have no funding here except for the numerous small donations made by readers. I don’t have to gain the approval of a board of regents, or satisfy the directors of a think tank.

So when I write things like this, it is simply the conclusion that I have reached after years of diligent study and research.

You, on the other hand, could not write such things, even if you happened to stumble across the ideas and accept the logic behind them. Not if you wanted to retain your position. Not if you wanted to avoid instant penury.

It’s unfortunate that you are thus restricted in your exploration of ideas. I count myself fortunate to have total academic and literary freedom.

Jeff’s comment may be read in its entirety here.

54 thoughts on “On Islam, “Islamism”, and Academic Straitjackets

  1. I believe you are correct in your view of what Islam is Baron. If not for the twisted distortions of the lying media who set out decades ago to paint a supremacist ideology (Islam) as a religion of peace, we would not be having these discussions concerning the possibility of ‘moderate’ as opposed to ‘fanatical’ or should that be ‘immoderate’? Muslims.

    There is only one Islam and ALL the Islamic Scholars will say that, but there are Muslims who are not fundamentally bound by the tenets of Islam, and it is those in whom we should be extending the opportunity to leave Islam under a program designed to negate the repercussions from those Muslims who are fundamentally bound by the tenets of Islam.

    If such a program was put in place I have no doubt that a quick trickle of those accepting such a program would turn into a later flood.

    • And you would be wrong.
      Israel is a prime example of why you are wrong.
      Israel has been under s sentence of Jihadic death well before its formal founding, right from its Zionist inception. Despite losing successive rounds of wars, despite being relegated to the bottom rungs of human achievement and academic non-existence the vast majority of Muslim scholars are absolutely certain of Islamic victory, and almost none have divested themselves of Islam. In fact the most stable alliance Islam keeps is the alliance with rabid antisemitism. especially Leftism and Anarchism.

      • I stand by my comment. There are many Muslims who wish to rid themselves of Islam, as the Baron has articulated – they simply want no part of such a retrograde force.

        Any Muslim can become a ‘Cleric’ and any Muslim can become an Islamic ‘Scholar’, but to aspire to those lofty ideals one also needs to be an Islamic fundamentalist – there are of course exceptions to that rule, but their numbers are so low as to not worth mentioning.

        And apart from that ‘program’ for the Muslim to leave Islam it will also be recognized that it is the Mosques and the schools where the fundamentalism is preached and enforced within the Ummah, and when they are all finally closed, that will become the catalyst of Islam’s destruction throughout the West.

        Declaring Islam a non-religion and without Mosques and schools, Islamic doctrine will be very difficult to preach.

        • Not ISIS but Al Nusra, a Syrian Muslim rebel outfit trying to topple Assad whose own troops along with Hezbollah, Iran’s proxy army, are intermittently lobbing artillery and mortar shells onto the Golan Heights.

          The Israeli’s are using Al Nusra as a buffer between Israel and Syria.

  2. There are no moderate Muslims, just like there are no moderate Nazis. I believe there are a fairly large number of people, who seemingly go along with the others and being Muslims, but in reality they just want to live their lives and afraid of confrontation with the more devoted ones. Let’s remember, only 13% war Nazis in Germany the rest just went along for the ride. However there are no protection for those who would leave this obnoxious political ideology. In the past they could come to western countries and shed their Muslim existence. But not anymore, as the elite is hell bent on loading every country with the wildest bunch! So if the more active ones can escalate a conflict against the House of War, they will just go along and help the rest of their cult.

    • True muslims themselves – including ones who are not actively trying to kill or convert non-believers – will tell you that if you do not follow the qur’an precisely, you are not a muslim. If you claim to be muslim, but don’t follow the dictates of the qur’an, you are an apostate, and the punishment for that, for “turning away from islam” is death.

      So, your neighbors who behave as if they are friends, or at least willing to politely “co-exist” (which isn’t permitted by the qur’an), are either lying (taqiyya, kitman, etc.) or are in the same position as non-believers (actually worse): when enough muslims are present in your area, they will force you to convert and accept sharia or enslave and/or kill you. The apostates may be killed out of hand, because they “knew” islam and turned away.

      Watch ISIS closely, as they are the perfect expression of islam, and how it deals with non-believers.

  3. You are certainly completely correct, Baron. After 7 years of study, two of which were full time, of islam, through history, and in all its miserable continuous satanic criminal manifestations, leaving absolutely no redeeming value to the cult-gang.

    mo wrote out any chance of changing from pure torturing destructive hatred, including for women and others even within, let alone all outside of islam. Deception and lying is expected always to advance the gang.

    The public will learn one way or another. We have now better than the Gutenberg press, we have the web, and it is all laid out to learn the full appalling truth of butchery and murder and hatred and abuse that is islam, santa claus (al Azhar imams) hats or not. You have only yourselves, naïve disbelieving readers, to blame for those who don’t understand that it is the most serious threat to civilization, as demonstrated for 1380 approximate years, so far.

    The brightest, learned, studied, and informed leaders in all of that history have publicly proclaimed, by the hundreds, repeatedly, exactly the deep worthlessness and danger of this pure criminal evil gang. Reading the violent koran verse 9.123 and over a hundred more, reading the hadiths of terror, all confirm the satanic evil of islam. Mo said in medina, that that koran version of terror, the final version of the koran of two, supersedes any earlier meccan verses at odds, forever, and that it was final and perfect, as the greatest criminal of all time mohammad was, and he was identical to his creation, allah.

    According to the koran and hadiths, moderation is allowed only as deception, when the percentage of muslims is still small, (hijra and fertilizing herds of women, as “wives”, rapes (subjugation), and sex slaves), are used to speed up increasing the jihad-war by increasing to overwhelming percentages of muslims, and thus allowed WHEN MODERATION IS DECEPTION TO ADVANCE THE GANG.

    As said, either you must learn before it is too late, and know, or you will certainly learn too late through pain and the deepest regret, too late. Slaves always learn too late, including those millions harvested from the Baltics, the majority of lower Europe, closer to the Levant, which holds the hive of islam arabs, all these states learned with millions of white, black and browns enslaved and killed, all learned too late. That is why now Hungary, Poland and many others nearer to the Levant, refuse “refugees”, today, not like the northern gullible northerly European states. Further, that is why the then, (around 1780s) newly minted America launched battle by Jefferson and others against the imam of Tripoli, and created the Navy and Marines, in the 1780s Barbary wars, just like todays fights with the descendants of the same islam muslims.

    The wise know from history, that the eternal war of islam, begins with the hijra migration, enforced by terror, and ends with war, if necessary, one way or another.

    No excuse can exist, no argument made, absolutely none, for the continued existence of pure criminal hating destroying evil, that is islam!

    • By the end of the century, everyone in the world will be a Muslim.

      In the alternative, no one in the world will be a Muslim.

      • Like I’ve said, Islam has made the entire decision-making process into a binary equation.

        If there is a surviving Muslim population, they will curse the name of bin Laden and every other “celebrity” jihadi for all time.

    • No excuse can exist, no argument made, absolutely none, for the continued existence of pure criminal hating destroying evil, that is islam!

      Which, curiously, is pretty much exactly how Islam feels about the West. The only slight difference is that the West (almost single-handedly) has delivered to the world benisons ranging from microprocessors and MRI scanners, to interplanetary probes and the very Internet these words are being published on.

      Can Islam say anything of the sort? In the past several hundred years, what has this brutal ideology brought to the world, aside from massive human suffering and slaughter on a scale that dwarfs all of modern humanity’s other collective evils (i.e., Nazism, Stalinism, Maoism)?

      Over and over, we are told that “Islam is Islam” and that the mere notion of “moderate” Islam is offensive to its most respected leaders. Isn’t it time that we in the West began listening to them seriously?

      Neither Islam itself, nor its appeasers, fellow travelers, and camp followers in the West can make any excuses for the viciousness and savagery that trails behind Muslims like used toilet paper stuck to the heel of their collective shoe.

      A decision gate looms in the near future. Only one culture will emerge from this calamitous bottleneck. The choice is binary. As in; a culture of peace and prosperity or one that glories in death and destruction. Which shall it be?

      Finally, kudos to Gates of Vienna for shedding its own once-cherished desire to find the nonexistent “moderate Muslim”. We’ve a better chance of stumbling across Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and Jack Frost sharing a beer at the local pub.

      PS: Applause to tjfj for such a unambiguous post.

      • So, what do you suggest we should do?

        Having all Western countries halt exports of food to the Muslim Middle East would be a great start. We will survive just fine without their oil for months. Most of the Arab nations would last, perhaps, one month before mass starvation set in. Iran is the only regional power that has made any attempt to address food security (in the form of domestically grown wheat).

        Also, declaring Islam a political ideology so that it no longer qualifies for Constitutional protections and tax-free status would be another.

        Absent relatively benign measures like those above, the matter will likely be settled by using unconventional weapons. It’s only a matter of time until the jihadis perpetrate an atrocity of sufficient horror to where the West finally loses patience and pulls the plug.

      • The West needs to declare Islam a proscribed cult, and ban outright its practice, preaching and teaching in schools. Every Imam should be deported or imprisoned, and every mosque razed to the ground. Nothing more is required – no civil war, no mass internment, no mass deportations.

        Although I agree with the Baron in principle, I think that removing the threat of apostasy killing, and stopping the brain-washing in mosques will make the majority of Muslims – those who refuse to stand against Islam through fear rather than fervour – simply keep their heads down until they die off. Their children, now under the influence of only school and peers, will become Westerners, and the problem, along with the Islamic foothold that draws Muslim migrants, will be gone.

        The crux of the problem is not Muslims, it is Islam. Islam is a collective, like an insect colony, and its adherents are zombies programmed to serve only the collective; not their country, culture, fellows or even family. That is why they are so dangerous. But destroy the organising heart of the collective and the constant flow of programming commands will stop. The zombies, deprived of instructions, will mill around like harmless, headless chickens.

        But who, of the frothing, sanctimonious, socialist cowards – seemingly stricken with Stockholm Syndrome – currently in positions of authority in Europe, will have the courage to do this? The sad irony is that only that most hated of European personae – a ruthless, determined hardman – is ever likely to. So bring him on.

      • As an answer y Brandstetter MD, and as a hope to complement other comments, is this screed. I expect some will hate what I say after reading this piece of truth, in America. But many will love what I say, too. Some will sit down and try to verify, or learn more of what I say here, some will know what I say.

        It is nice to see so many informed and thoughtful comments here.

        Many thoughtful observers know, there are only two possibles to correct the very real problem of the invasive species that is the evil, criminal, actual hatred based, (“if you don’t agree with mo as a muslim” you must be killed, preferably tortured first), true fundamental and unchangeable islam. Just two possibilities, known, or imagined.

        First, in all 1380 years of recorded, proven historical results, and demonstrable history, the only sure way to defeat this mentally destroyed species that are fundamentalist muslims, and shown to work, repeatedly, is to fight brutality with higher quantity or the worst style of brutality, plus pigs, maybe.

        Vlad Tepes (Dracula) during his span as the king of his Romanian kingdom is said to have successfully kept out the invading muslim hordes, by putting the heads of early invading muslims on pike poles, maybe whole bodies skewered, 10-20,000 of them at all the entrance points to his kingdom. So there is one way.

        Rolling heads through much history, was always a deterrence, even to the muslims, shown with their fascination for scimitars that, employed by mounted solders, such as the Ottoman hordes, riding through opposing armies, could sever heads, or leave them dangling, with one swipe, to effect a serious mental reservation, or anger in others, to the soldiers who witnessed such horror.

        Repeatedly, massive military victories of decimation of this long lived enemy, possessed of the purest of concepts of evil, most often in the most brutal ways with edged instruments, (instead of modern warfare atomizing, halving, quartering, piecing out, or amputating modern bodies) (yes, I’ve seen some such gore), as particularly Pope Urban at Lapanto accomplished, aided some would say, the winds of war, by God, and Martel, and Sobieski brilliantly accomplished. Each was the decisive cause of a century or more laying down the absolute ‘imperial ideology’ that is totalitarian islam, at its core, but not permanently burying it, yet. Remember, the several hundred years of predominately defensive war of the Crusades, too often poorly and halfheartedly pin prick (police action) fought, resulted only in a holding-delaying action, which though largely useful, was just very minor, compared to the massive invasion by the muslim hordes, then taking place all over Europe, outside of the localized, limited Crusade (police action style) area of endeavor. And then came along the petrodollar oil boom, as a fertilizer and waterer of the arab evil islamic sands. This might go away, as cycles of life do, just as with the long lived buggy whip. But when? And at what price?

        Some ‘weak sisters’ might ask or propose ‘how can you possibly talk of such deaths, brutality’ as a solution, when on the TV reporting on the democrats speaking of a “duty to die” for the weak or elderly, relating to health care? The famous democrat governor, Dick Lamb, years ago, spoke of the ‘duty of the old to die (truly stupidly) to make room for the younger’!

        And every year, here in America, we have the evil of would be mothers, murdering their young, by tens of thousands per year of little innocents, inside, in what some think of as the most sacred protective, nurturing, environment, her womb, a mother’s uterus!!! What kind of evil is this nightmare, sometimes done by amputating little arms, legs, heads, or just slurping up the whole little body? And too, we have the example of the evil minded hillary, now proposing a scheme to sell her would be ‘victory confetti’, in little confetti globes, to raise money SUPPOSEDLY to be donated to the nefarious planned parenthood, which was set up originally to essentially attempt to control, “undesirables”-“wink, wink”, so lectured by Sanger, publicly, years ago. (Of course, no one has mentioned that wound up being a solution to LBJ’s “new society” requirement to have no father-husband-boyfriend evident, so that a woman, could get more “income” ADC money with each baby produced, and remain dependent on democrats “for two hundred years” more. Such is the modern plantation, and “master of the house”!

        Slick and sick of LBJ and typical of his co-travelers, and even now, African Americans in the vast majority, still believe democrats are their “friends”. Even though democrats set up “Jim Crow”, “RESISTED” equality amendments, and formed, and reformed, the KKK and defended it. And remember, the islamics always believed in slavery, still do, and were the primary provider of African slaves, to the world, for funds. But not alone were the only the Africans enslaved, also millions of whites of Europe were so captured, likewise, even our own merchant marine about the time of our founding as America, along the Barbary coast of Africa, don’t forget. Islamic gangs are dabbling in drugs these days, too, remember the “poppy trades”, and more, now? Anything criminal, unethical, dishonorable, or immoral (Sweden as Europe rape capital, Cologne rapes, etc., ‘sex grooming muslim gangs’, in America and Europe, at least!), is fair game, errr fair business. That’s what one can do with no God, but satan!

        Everyone, not just the African Americans, including very much, whites and browns too, had better get on the train to real and true wisdom and knowledge, before it pulls out one last time, too many. I’m here to tell you, also, DJT is being heroic in the face of unimaginable hatred and evil around us, whether one appreciates his specific style or not, which I do. He is accomplishing very much, making beachheads, against unimaginable headwinds, not seen perhaps since the 1840s, and the 1770s. Republicans are all in the same boat with headwinds, some making it even worse, needlessly. He is in reality, a real American, an actually massively proven, and accomplished one, who deserves everyone’s deepest support, and actually respect, if not outright love, (as even LINDAY LOHAN OF HOLLYWOOD HAD THE BRAVE COURAGE TO SAY A FEW DAYS AGO, much to her credit, losing friends in hollywood for speaking TRUTH! Lindsay is learning….) for his sacrifice for America and Freedom. America is deeply in a dangerous edge zone, thanks to anti-American predecessors, yes more than just the exemplary primary one, which said primary one is still daily continuously demonstrating his absolute disqualification to have ever been a potus, other than in his own imagination, let alone a laughable nobel laureate, so discredited is the social nobel now, resulting from his cowardly example.

        Continued next post…..

        • Continued to get around the blocking software……
          Remember, just like with modern democrats and the media, muslims are COMMANDED to scheme, deceive, lie, to promote the gang-cult. The democrats and others, (as many muslims well know from being raised that way), have repeated that ‘if you lie big enough, and often enough, the masses (haplessly not typically bright and scholarly in learning, nor realizing how easy it is to actually learn the truths, nowadays, as never before) will eventually come to believe that the most outrageous is actually truth! Far too many lacking virtues, ethics, honor, integrity, and of course lacking God, and Christ’s principles, practice this simple concept of deception.

          So after, and other than, the tried and true demonstrations through history, of massive decimation, by massive brutality and death, we have to explore the possible second alternative.

          Second possible is that during the major war years, and the cold war years, communications by broadcast and pamphleteering was realized was a possible way to weaken the enemy of nazi and shinto evils by explaining usually the truth, and sometimes of course some things might have been slipped in as not quite truth, via radio broadcasts, and VOA and such other mighty powerful broadcasts.

          So such forms of mental improvement, in this case “truth warfare”, more than just “information warfare” and such uplifting truths are a possible alternate. My judgement is these are necessary, as an adjunct to pure war, of more than a police action. Ultimately, the fact of this evil, not much different than adolf’s nazi principles, must be obliterated, by truth, and ultimately, by some form of goodness belief, most preferably God and Christ principles, which are provably long demonstrated to have incredible benefits for all, when applied! But even such as Hinduism, and such other as is at least possessed of reasonable beliefs in individual responsibility and goodness are worthy alternatives. Most muslims are lied to from the beginning, infancy or adult conversations, thus massively brainwashed. Some from infancy, some as converts. Many have no idea that lying is kosher, and that it doesn’t matter, as if you buy the lies you are still subject to being killed if you leave, even though you were so naïve and stupid, (like the hollywood female suckers who converted) you had believed the original lies. Tough luck, sucker. Laisses Fare. Simple principle of islam! shahada, right or wrong, and it’s kinked to be always wrong!

          In consequence to these realities, a massive campaign, of generations in duration, to get out to the public, the actual quotes from the texts, hadiths, koran, and sura, must be run, globally in reach, to destroy the eternal constant lies of the fundamental truths of the real torture, hatred, thievery, destruction, murder, utter lack of any good of any kind to mankind, all expressed in these evil texts, which to a near total degree are mirrored in adolf’s nazi ideology.

          It MUST be run honestly, with ethics, integrity, and honor, exemplarily by intelligent, educated conservatives, who are dedicated to reality, knowing their lives will be targeted as truth tellers, which leaves out most current democrats, and a fair portion of current republicans. High reputation must be earned and maintained for truth, above all, absolutely, or no point in doing it as it would be a waste, just as CNN has become, along with most of the rest of MSM. Also, the campaign must be aimed at both muslims, and non-muslims to provide the truth of satanic evil to both, so that both may be able to know the total valuelessness that is islam, always. And the collusion of nazism and islam must be included.

          Small group and individual one on one campaigns are ongoing around the world, of spreading the truths of God and Christ. But such one on ones are high danger, and relatively slow, often effective though. And some muslims do come to realize the truth, on their own, to their credit, and good fortune. So be of hope, many do leave islam, globally, often in disgust, usually quietly, so as to keep their heads. But not nearly enough. As I understand, a relative trickle, which needs building to a torrent of a river.

          The chance of a massive information campaign working in sufficient quantity alone is virtually impossible, in a short enough time, or in percentages. It will take a long time for most people to awaken from long term darkness, into a gray area first, and then some dawning into the light! It will take strength and determination, also. Perhaps over time such campaigns may be massively effective, but very soon, physical means must be maintained and perhaps increased for a time. Such evils as are now rampant, especially laid out as examples globally, by such as islamics-muslims, must be shown to not be effective for imperialism over the world, as these brutal methodologies, and other criminal or sick methods (including socialism-marxism totalitarianism) are applied by the maduros, the cartels, the fat kims, the iranics, the husseins (MB loving obama), even the hillary types (soros, hillary, podesta, etc.)

          What to do, sums up as decisive physical violence as war, where appropriate, physical exclusion where practicable, informational truth campaigns, and deportation of those unwilling or unable to assimilate, at the least.

          Ultimately, the only real answer will be found to be, in the embracing of God, Christ and the lessons of real life, shown in text, like Proverbs, beyond the 600 plus, and the 10 Commandments.

          Sorry, Baron for being so long a post.

        • First, in all 1380 years of recorded, proven historical results, and demonstrable history, the only sure way to defeat this mentally destroyed species that are fundamentalist muslims, and shown to work, repeatedly, is to fight brutality with higher quantity or the worst style of brutality, plus pigs, maybe.

          Thank you for stating an obvious but sorely underappreciated fact. Entire societies and cultures have been vanquished because they flinched at the notion of escalating beyond Islam’s routine barbarity.

          At the very least, large Islamic cities deserve to disappear after each new terrorist atrocity. It might be useful to make the hometowns of jihadist perpetrators vanish as well, if only to chlorinate the gene pools that spawn these vicious brutes.

          Eventually, Muslims might learn that preaching and carrying out jihad is an exceptionally dangerous proposition (for all of them). A very desirable outcome would be having enraged and terrified Muslims dashing down to the nearest mosque and slitting the throat of its jihad-preaching imam.

          This, in some part, would be a start to having Islam clean its own house, a task that Western nations have ZERO responsibility for. It can only be imagined how hilarious most Muslims find it that the West is expending so much blood and treasure to (futilely) attempt a task that only Islam’s own adherents have even the slightest chance of properly effecting.

          When all Muslims lay awake at night wondering if their city will be the next to vanish, that will be a crucial “mission accomplished”.

    • Sorry, tjfj – if I had read down to your comment, I wouldn’t have felt the need to write mine, since they look like peas in a pod. Although you are a bit more eloquent than I.

  4. My answer to Jeff is simply this: You have erroneously compared Mohammedanism to other religions, most notably Christianity. The bedrock of Mohammedanism is nothing like Christian belief.

    The Bible is understood to be the delivered wisdom and moral code of God. Take Koran is the literal word of Allah. Mohammed did not “deliver” it, he did not quote Allah, he did not bring a tablet down from the mountain, the original of which has been lost, Mohammed open his mouth and Allah spoke and it was written down verbatim. It says what it says without any qualification possible.

    Mohammed is, was and for ever shall be the perfect man, to be venerated and emulated by all of the faithful. The immutable word of Allah (the Koran) so states.

    Mohammed is the last, and only uncorrupted, prophet until the End Time. The immutable word of Allah so states.

    These three things are universally held as true by all Mohammedans. To even question them brands one as an apostate, the punishment for which is death. If you have studied Mohammedanism like you claim then you know this to be true. These three things together make an iron bound logic box from which there is no escape. It is not possible for anyone to have the standing to change, modify, or explain away any passage in the Koran. A Mohammedans who attempted to do so would probably not live to see the sun set. The is a reason why none of these so called reformers have ever stood up and said, “the Koran is wrong about killing infidels.” There is a reason why none loudly proclaim that, “Mohammed was wrong about deceiving infidels.” It can’t be done because the exclusion of change was baked in 1400 years ago. It was not a mistake. It is clearly an intentional feature.

    • “It is not possible for anyone to ..explain away any passage in the Koran.”

      A psychotherapist in Iran held Koran studies at his home. He put forward his suggestion that the story of Jonah and the whale be taken figuratively.
      He was hanged.

    • Tom, there is a further difference between islam and Christianity: mohammed created islam out of whole cloth, much like L.Ron Hubbard did with Scientology. They are both the complete creation of their own fevered minds.

      mohammed made up his “religion (cult) for two reasons: first, to justify his perverted, filthy appetites – child rape, sex slaves, killing followers (or non-believers) so he could own and rape their wives, and to hide his physical inadequacies as a man. Second, he did so in order to draw thousands (millions over the 1400 years since) of desert scum and brigands to his banner. He knew from his own proclivities that they would flock to his banner when they learned that anything he did was permitted to them as well – child rape, child brides (and rape, again), sex slaves (“war brides”), slaves, murdering any whom they wished to kill (including other muslims of slight doctrinal differences), sex with animals, even sex between men (as long as love was not involved – then it became homosexuality, punishable by death).

      And don’t any of you folks kid yourselves – probably more than 99% of muslims would still follow the qur’an even if there was no penalty for not doing everything it commands. Even the ones who you believe might be the elusive “moderates” we hear about, want to be able to abuse their wives, force them to have sex (anal and oral as well) when they aren’t interested or feeling well, “honor kill” (what an oxymoron) their daughters who disobey, behave “Western”, become interested in an infidel, or simply attract the eye of the father, an uncle, or the local imam. They may not be burning to rush out and kill infidels (too much work involved), but they certainly do not want to give up all the other perversions allowed by the qur’an and hadiths.

      So, even if they were told it was allowed to leave islam, most wouldn’t. Why do you think there are a billion muslims in the world? Because islam brings peace and contentment? Because it is a loving and uplifting religion and way of life? No, it is for the same reason we see so many Western young men join ISIS – because most of them couldn’t get laid if the brothels of the world were free of charge, so joining ISIS and capturing sex slaves – whom they can torture or beat (to make up for how badly they feel Western women have treated them at home), having sex with little girls (and boys) without having to fear being put in prison, and getting “respect” from other degenerates much like themselves makes them feel good.
      (BTW, I don’t capitalize anything to do with islam save for the name of ISIS, simply to reduce possible confusion)

      Finally, learn what the Ayatollah Khomeini said in his book of two volumes about rules of conduct in islam, to all muslim males. Here are some excerpts from “Tahrirolvasyleh” which Muslims probably don’t want you to know about Islam:
      A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby.  However, he should not penetrate vaginally, but sodomising the child is acceptable.  If a man does penetrate and damage the child then, he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life.  This girl will not count as one of his four permanent wives and the man will not be eligible to marry the girl’s sister.
      A man can have sex with animals such as sheep, cows, camels and so on.  However, he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm.  He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, but selling the meat to a neighbouring village is reasonable.
      If a man sodomises the son, brother, or father of his wife after their marriage, the marriage remains valid.

      What kind of animals would you expect to belong to such a cult?

  5. I view so called “moderate Muslims” the same way I would view “moderate Nazis”…both fully supportive of their militant and violent elements…and both held together by the same poisonous glue of their ideology

      • Hajj Amin al-Husseini, then the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, spent the Second World War in exile in Berlin as an honored guest of the Nazi Party. Upon arriving in Germany early in the war, Husseini lost no time in ingratiating himself to Hitler and the top-ranking members of his inner circle.

        Seeing in him possibilities for expanding National Socialism in the Arab and Muslim worlds, the party provided Husseini with a generous financial stipend, a stylish house in the Berlin suburbs, a chauffeured car, and a radio show by which to broadcast pro-Nazi propaganda to his coreligionists back home in the Middle East.

        The Mufti, for his part, won admirers such as Adolf Eichmann and Heinrich Himmler, and over time, became an enthusiastic supporter of the “Final Solution” against European Jews and others the Nazi state considered undesirables.

        Based on part upon the enthusiastic support of Himmler, Husseini took an active role in the recruitment of Bosnian Muslims to the 13th Mountain “Handschar” Division of the Waffen-SS, which later attained infamy for its particularly brutal anti-partisan operations in the Balkans. Each member of the division wore a blood-red fez upon which was pinned the Totenkopf – or “death’s head” badge of the S.S. – as well as the eagle insignia or “Reichsadler.”

        At war’s end, Amin al-Husseini was spirited out of Europe and back to the Middle East – thereby escaping the hangman’s noose at Nuremburg. He survived into the 1970s as a spiritual figurehead and mentor to such modern figures as Yasser Arafat. Husseini’s daughter married Hassam Ali Salameh, the founder of the terrorist group “Black September,” responsible for the massacre at the 1972 Munich Olympic Games – an act Husseini lived long-enough to witness before dying in 1974. Arafat wept openly at his funeral.

  6. T hem or us, and they’re not real men in any honorable or realistic way.The God of the Bible may exist,

    as may the insanely hateful allah, but I doubt it. Islam is the best con ever, it’s offensive to logic, reason and
    only inbred idiots can suspend their sanity to be duped into becoming a muslim. I was raised to respect others
    beliefs, but I believe my parents were very mistaken, why respect perverted wife beating idiots that hate
    everything good that life has to offer, ridicule, mock and ostracize them then see if

    they’re intelligent enough to look inward.

    Since they harshly reject logic, rationality and any form of compassion,they deserve no sympathy

    due humanbeings since they’ve embraced rabid psychopathy and aren’t really part of

    humanity anymore. [intemperance redacted]. Muslims are toxic and a threat to all our lives. Sadly the Europeans don’t

    value their societies, or care much for their children, having surrendered their way of life, their standard of

    living, their safety, their identity, their culture and gave away their children’s future, to rabid psychotic

    parasites who hate them..

    I doubt we the US, or Russia will allow that, but I fear we lack the resolve to help

    ourselves because we haven’t yet, and allow our government to tax us in order to import tens of thousands
    ofmuslims that rape, assault and prey our children without consequence and eventually exterminate us. Perverting
    our role as a beacon of hope for the weak poor huddled masses is to blame, misplaced compassion combined with

    liberal lunacy produced a synergy that may yet destroy humanity. The Chinese and Japanese, thankfully, still use
    reason and and logic for decision making and loathe islam and won’t contaminate their society with muslims
    Obviously Asians love their children more than us Western people because they don’t risk the future on pity for
    people that want to destroy it. They’ll save the world and [intemperance redacted]. Europe is doomed, men are in the process of surrendering their daughters to savages without a fight.
    That’s the canary in the coal mine for humanity, them or us and I fear for us.

    • The Chinese and the Japanese …………. and don’t forget the Koreans.

  7. The reason why this is an awful, horrible conclusion to have reached, is that we must re-evaluate all our laws which protect religious liberty. Islam cannot be considered to be a “religion” for the purposes of any law which might be invoked to protect either itself, or Muslims by reason of Islam.

    In particular, the term “religious group” in the legal definition of the crime of genocide does not include the Muslims.

    In the American legal system there is a concept of “moral turpitude”. To profess that Muhammad is a Messenger of God is moral turpitude, to be filed under Crimes Committed Against Person, Family Relationship, and Sexual Morality.

  8. Baron: I’m sure that you are 100% right in your findings. I haven’t done the research that you have, but from working with them and listening to them when they first arrived in our country, I can tell you that there is definitely no such thing as a moderate muslim. Love the photo above.

  9. The phrase “moderate muslim” in itself tells you everything you need to know about the entire situation.

    The world has no need to seek out moderate buddhists or moderate methodists.

    Yes, no matter how sick and toxic your culture might be, it is nearly impossible to stamp out human virtue completely. So sure, there are lots of virtuous mohammedans wandering about. It means precisely nothing.

    What the phrase “moderate muslim” tells us, is that they are virtuous DESPITE their “culture” not because of it.

    Islam must be stamped out. Pure and simple. Islam has been a force for destruction, loss, misery and death for more than 1000 years. Time to get rid of it.

    Whether or not that entails killing mohammedans and if so which, and how many, is an entirely separate question. That’s for the military folks to figure out.

    But one way or another, islam has to go.

    • What the phrase “moderate muslim” tells us, is that they are virtuous DESPITE their “culture” not because of it.


  10. Question for the Baron and Dymphna,

    How do you view Sufism? Is it distinct from Islam? Or is it just a kind of gloss over the real Islam?

      • Ahmadiyah people will betray you too, and will still praise Muhammad and spread Islam.

    • I don’t speak for Baron and Dymphna (Baron once ‘mocked’ me by saying there are various sects within Islam when I criticized Bill’s writing about mentioning Islam rather than Moslem) Yet I tell you, Sufism is Islam. Consequently, Sufism is just as deadly.

      • Yes, the Pakistani Sheikh Gilani is a Sufi. He is the founder of Jamaat ul-Fuqra, a.k.a. The Muslims of America, a.k.a. Muslims of the Americas, which is a terrorist organization with armed training camps all over the USA. It’s been in the news again recently, after another one of its leaders got busted for possessing illegal weapons.

        See the Jamaat ul-Fuqra archives.

        • Re: “Yes, the Pakistani Sheikh Gilani is a Sufi. He is the founder of Jamaat ul-Fuqra, a.k.a. The Muslims of America, a.k.a. Muslims of the Americas, which is a terrorist organization with armed training camps all over the USA.”

          Which begs the question, Baron, why are these camps still open and still permitted to operate?

          For many years, Steve Emerson, David Gaubatz and others within the counter-jihad movement, have – often at great risk to themselves – have managed to develop hard evidence and a substantial knowledge base about these training camps, compounds and the people who run them.
          Dutifully, Emerson et. al. have forwarded this information to state and local authorities as well as the F.B.I. – yet nothing is done to shut down these places and/or imprison/deport those within them. Why?

          Given the obvious pro-Islamic sympathies of the Obama regime, why nothing was done during those eight years is easily-explained. The same applies to the eight years of Bill Clinton. But that doesn’t explain the inaction of George H. Bush, or his son, George W. Bush. Twelve years in which nothing was done about these camps and training compounds.

          One possible explanation holds that the FBI cannot take action until/unless the individuals running these camps are designated as terrorist organizations or sympathizers, a designation which can only be made by the Department of State – a bureaucracy rife with Muslim sympathizers and fellow travelers.

          The so-called explanatory memo of the Muslim Brotherhood was obtained in 1991 by the FBI (apparently not everyone there was asleep on the job – kudos to them). Emerson and Gaubatz have been warning about these compounds – as well as “radical” madrasas and mosques, etc. – for about the same amount of time.

          It is an outrage that these dangerous groups and the individuals in them have been allowed to operate, apparently unmolested, on U.S. soil for so long of a time. It is time to turn up the heat on the authorities until such time as they fulfill their respective duties to the American people in this matter.

          If vast and well-funded agencies such as the FBI and State Dept., not to mention all of their local, regional and state counterparts, are unwilling or unable to handle this problem, what on earth are the taxpayers doing supporting them?

  11. I think – and I use these words to qualify my statement because it is my thought exclusively.
    The qualifier word “moderate” when combined with people who proclaim to be muslim is no more, or less applicable than it is when combined with those who proclaim to be associated with any other religion.
    All of us are born into some form of religious influence, we are instilled with it by our parents, or the state from infancy.
    Maturity in many of us helps us select a specific religion eventually, or not. This selection doesn’t always involve spiritual awakening.
    I know many Christians who are not Christian at all. They make the claim anyway.
    I know quite a few muslims who are not in any way muslim. They also hold to the claim.
    The mistake most people make in describing “their religion” is that they “think” religion is some intellectual understanding, it is not. Religion is a spiritual awakening and a view of all things that cannot be seen, touched, tasted, smelled, or heard, in any physical sense.
    Most people regard religion as a book, a building, a ritual, or some ghostly apparition.
    I am a Christian not because I read the book, went to the church, and my parents told me I was, I am a Christian because the spirit of Christ is in my Soul. I see “Christians” every day who are nothing but liars. I know this because the spirit of Christ in me recognizes the absence of the spirit in them, even though they may be “good, moral” people.
    I also see Muslims every day that the spirit of Christ in me recognizes as the enemy within them.
    Most people are just empty – spiritually void – secular.

  12. There are no moderate slaves of allah. How could there be? Is there a muslim on the planet who doubts that they are a muslim? Is there a muslim on the planet who does not know that the penalty for apostasy is death?

  13. I agree with everything you said, Baron, up until your “final point” and your addendum.

    The fact is that genuine Muslim moderates and reformers nowadays constitute a tiny minority without a significant base of popular support. It’s also true that far too many Muslims agree with the Islamists on certain matters, and that ca. 20% of them think that waging violent jihad can be justified. Those are very depressing and sobering realities. So if you are arguing that it is chimerical to think that moderates will soon triumph over Islamists in the struggle for the “soul of Islam,” that is sadly true. But it is one thing to argue that moderates are currently losing this struggle badly, and another thing altogether to dismiss such moderates and argue that they do not deserve to be supported.

    With respect to your “final point,” there is in fact such a thing as Islamism, which is essentially an overtly politicized variant of Islamic fundamentalism. In the Arabic language, the term “islamiyyun” (“Islamic ones”), which can be viewed as either positive (by Islamists and other fundamentalists) or negative (by most other Muslims) is used to differentiate such religious puritans from normal Muslims (who are referred to simply as “mu’minin” [“believers”] or “muslimun” [“Muslims”]). Scholars, both Western and Muslim, also clearly recognize that the term Islamism (or some substitute) refers to a particular interpretation of Islam that arose in the early 20th century (even if it is a modern variant of earlier puritanical Muslim revivalist movements), and other than Islamist apologists (who are unfortunately very numerous in academia) they tend to view it, quite accurately, as a particularly strict, puritanical, literalist, and regressive interpretation of Islam. (Similarly, experts on Christianity rightly differentiate between different forms of Christian fundamentalism and less puritanical, regressive interpretations of Christianity, rather than foolishly conflating all of the different interpretations of Christianity.)

    I myself have defined Islamism as a right-wing, theocratic, totalitarian, and Islamic supremacist interpretation of core Islamic doctrines. Fortunately, the majority of Muslims are not in fact Islamists, even if they sympathize with some Islamist positions on social issues. Like other religious believers, individual Muslims pick and choose which aspects of their sacred scriptures to emphasize, follow, and apply in their own lives, and in practice most ignore key theological or legal aspects of Islam. Which is a good thing, since the main form of religious extremism in the world consists of fundamentalist interpretations of various kinds. Not so the Islamists, who wish, in most respects, to apply Qur’anic injunctions and follow Muhammad’s “exemplary” behavior literally and strictly.

    And the jihadists among them, as the name implies, wish to impose Islam on the entire world by force, i.e., by waging warfare against “infidels” (and also “apostate” Muslims who do not share their interpretation of Islam). When one argues, falsely, that this is the only legitimate intepretation of Islam or that it is tantamount to Islam itself, all one is doing is agreeing with the Islamists themselves, which is hardly helpful.

    Turning to your last point, i.e., your assumption that my scholarship on Islamism and jihadist terrorism (not to mention many other types of violent extremism) has been dependent upon getting funding from “progressive” foundations that insist upon the whitewashing of Islam is simply false. I have never whitewashed Islam or Islamism. So here you are again making allegations that you cannot support with any evidence, like the suggestion that other groups who recognize the value of supporting moderate Muslims must have been corrupted by funds from sinister Gulf States. If you have any evidence that, say, Daniel Pipes or Steve Emerson has received funding from such sources, and that this has caused them to adopt rosy views of reality, you should present it. Instead, you are just leveling dark hints, which is what GoV’s enemies do to you.

    Lastly, the only reason I responded to your post in the first place was because I find many of materials posted on GoV to be very interesting and useful, especially translations from the foreign media and harsh criticisms of the immigration and asylum policies of globalist elites. So my criticism, in this case, was meant to be constructive.

    To make the main point one last time, to argue that the interpretation of Islam adopted by jihadist groups like the Islamic State, orthodox though it may be in many respects, is the only authentic interpretation of Islamic doctrines (as you and Robert Spencer seem to be doing) is simply incorrect. It should be enough to point out that this interpretation illustrates some of most regressive, dangerous features of Islam, without going further and arguing that it constitutes Islam pure and simple.

    • Jeff,

      You ascribe to me a number of assertions that I haven’t in fact made. So you are at least as presumptuous as I was in speculating on the effect that your funding sources might have on your publicly expressed opinions.

      I don’t have time to go into all of the mis-ascriptions. The significant one is that I never assert that some form of “Moderate Islam” can’t ever exist, just that it never has existed, and that it shows no sign whatsoever of coming into being. In other words, all the evidence is against it.

      It’s like “true communism” in that respect, so what I said a little while ago in another comment is appropriate here, and I’ll plagiarize myself to restate it: Die-hard Marxists, when confronted with the sanguinary realities of 20th-century communism, say: “True communism has never been tried.” Yes, that’s true, and there’s a reason for it: true communism is a phantasm, a chimera, an illusion, a hallucination. It cannot exist because in order for its theory to become praxis, human nature would have to be abolished. Even Stalin couldn’t manage that.

      In a similar vein, for “Moderate Islam” to exist, Islam itself would have to be abolished — about 80% of the Koran, and possibly even a larger percentage of the hadith, would have to be wiped out. What would be left of Islamic scripture after that could be printed on the back of a cereal box without even using a small font.

      I stand by my assertion that “Islamism” is a construct of Western analysts and scholars. No word like it is used among Muslims. They don’t conceptualize their faith that way. It’s an imposition of a Western template onto Islamic thought. In general, Muslims look at their religion in terms of who is practicing it more faithfully, and who is not. And those who practice it more faithfully —— who hew most closely to its scriptural sources —— end up following an ideology that closely resembles what you call “Islamism”.

      You gave the game away when you referred to “a particularly strict, puritanical, literalist, and regressive interpretation of Islam”, and compared it to similar processes in Christianity. But there’s a point where that analogy becomes inapt: A Christian who decides to follow his scriptures literally and strictly (“regressively”, if you will) becomes less violent and destructive, because he is now sticking closely to the example of The Christ. With a Muslim it’s the opposite, of course —— when he returns to the fundamentals of his religion and imitates his prophet, he starts slitting the throats of apostates and the kuffar.

      In other words, Islam is currently in the process of returning to its roots, and is undergoing a reformation —— and that reformation takes the form of the Islamic State, among others.

  14. Just thought I’d remark, I’m impressed with the level of knowledge, logic, and even wisdom of the commenters I see in this GoV posting. A lot of informed and learned reasonable people.

    There would be little problem if all in America knew what those of us here know, right, Baron? Imagine northerly Europe knowing this level of the evil of islam and history.

    By the way, in my earlier comment, I spoke of VOA and broadcasting over radio waves, and I should have included the web as in you tube type of broadcasting and text too, but in some areas, radio is more easily available yet, for a long time, I assume, so all means of “broadcasting” truth and information of course should be utilized. For example, most smaller and already islam infected island nations and villages, have no real, or no, internet at all. And most areas on the fringe, or off the grid, also have nothing but radio phones. Most rural and background areas, and many older people have not even the knowledge of how to use internet, ditto the other many people of little education or means, and think of the massive language barriers, all over. It will be as difficult and complicated, as conducting effective war.

    That’s why wisdom, and determination is needed.

  15. This is a comment from a Frenchman who has lived more than fourty years in and out of Arab countries, for professional reasons.
    I have also lived inside a muslim family. I have studied the history of Islam and of Europe for many years… I have to agree entirely with Baron Bodissey… As a young man raised in liberal Europe, I thought naively that Islam was a ” religion” like , say, Christianity, Judaism or Hinduism.I had no ill feelings toward Islam.
    Over the course of many years, I discovered with dread than Islam is not at all a religion. It is a malevolent enterprise to conquer and subjugate the world. It has disguised itself as a religion to fool the rest of the planet.
    Since the beginning it has tried to invade and plunder Europe. So far the muslim hordes have been repulsed. ( Battles of Tours/ Poitiers in 732, Lepanto in 1572, Vienna in 1683). We had a short respite afterward. But the recent oil money in Arab hands has been catastrophic. The Saudis have given zillions of petro dollars to leadersof the West. They now control almost all European universities, and most political leaders, government institutions and media. They are formatting young brains everywhere.
    The conquest of Europe is well on its way. Fortunately the Internet now exist. People can inform themselves via the Web. I see from the comments here that people are beginning to see the mortal danger of Islam. Maybe there is hope. I myself am doing my part in my corner of the world: I keep saying around me : read the Koran, read the Hadiths: there is no moderate Islam… Islam is the greatest danger for human civilisation.

  16. This verse allows the sharks to swim and merge with the other fish.
    An abrogating verse that enlivens the koran.

    By degrees shall We teach thee to declare (the Message), so thou shalt not forget, Except as Allah wills: For He knoweth what is manifest and what is hidden.
    Qur’an 87:6-7

    Koran 87:6-7 is the most insidious to me.
    By degrees, sort of different stages, to different people, so it is for certain purposes, to remain hidden, and then for others to be activated, if it is considered that they will ‘get’ the “real”, “perfect man” in that “excellent example”, either in the koran or a supporting hadith.

    One can see the difference in how western society will try to protect woman and children.
    Other societies seem to be happy to shelter behind them, and so allow them to become victims. The “victims” are quite happy to accept that as their lot, and that sacrifice is give further aid to their religion.

    That may be a reason why, when a muslim suddenly can change from “moderate” on seeing further revelation.
    Often neighbours like in the Balkans, Syria can suddenly turn on others that are not muslim or considered a flawed muslim.

    When it is revealed, then muslim loyalty to the word is put to the test. It becomes a reformation of the muslim, to the words, sayings, advice and actions of Mohammad.

    Many thanks to B&D for your dedication, and other contributors, in seeking truth.
    The truth will become our guide in how we seek to overcome the problems that are arising.
    Free speech, debate, discussion, of the truth, to be spread far and wide is a great weapon.


    What am I missing here?

  18. This is not about religion.

    It is straight-forward TAQIYYA.

    Geopolitical world domination.

    Duped again!

  19. They love that we’re TALKING
    While they strategically position themselves.

    They are barbarians.
    They know they will be attacking a country that takes Christianity for GRANTED.

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