66 thoughts on “Overpopulation in Numbers”

1. There is good evidence of earlier civilisations going back well over 10,000 to 12,000 years. A lot of mainstream archaeologists now believe “Prehistory” needs to be re-examined.

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe

   • Gobekli Tepe was built by foragers. It was just a ceremonial center. So was Chatal Huyuk, and Chatal Huyuk was a real town, maybe 8000 – 12,000 at its peak. Somebody ought to write the history of H. sapiens. Our 200,000 years, and focus only on that. Isn’t it strange nobody has?

2. And everybody has an idea which of these useless billions to cull first, whether they dare to say so or not. Nature has its ways of dealing with unsustainable developments. Human nature is part of nature.

   About exponential growth in limited space, this is excellent:
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZCm2QQZVYk

3. As for giving the third world more money we have thrown trillions of pounds at them since the second world war, arguably only to encourage population growth. They must solve their own problems; we must defend our boarders.

   • The book “Dead Aid” covers the uselessness of foreign aid in some detail.

4. Without detracting anything from what this author has written, a question nevertheless must be asked, and that is; just how accurate are the United Nations figures in numbers of Humanity per racial index?

   A simple question, but does anyone really have the exact figure or are those numbers highly inflated in order to achieve certain goals within certain agendas?

   There is much to add about how the Globalists like to use scare tactics, such as Global Warming, with which to manipulate Mr and Mrs Average white person’s gullibility.

5. Population biologists warned us a half-century ago about immigration by high birth-rate cultures, but we allowed entry to Muslims anyway.

   Sigh.

6. I said it before and I’ll say it again: Europe, Japan, parts of America, etc. have evolved far enough to understand that our population cannot grow forever and have adopted lower birth rates and changes in the system that will keep high life standards (that some try to forcefully destroy it aside for now).
   In Africa and similar countries it used to be “have twelve children, three will make it to adulthood at best”. After the help of medicine created by the white man, all twelve children make it. However, there’s a severe lack of ub
   nderstanding that “if all make it, I shouldn’t have more than three to begin with”. Especially if I’m not able to feed them all on my own.
   The solution is ridiculously simple: stop humanitarian help for those countries! Most of it doesn’t make it to those that really need it anyway. Or better yet, bring them farm tools instead of ready-made food. That way they can learn how to sustain themselves. And nature will take care of the rest. (Of course, stop the Frontex free cruise to Europe as well.)

   • “That way they can learn how to sustain themselves.”
     They already know how to sustain themselves. They’ve known for hundreds of thousands of years or else they wouldn’t exist today.

     • Exactly, but the do-gooders had to throw food, money and medicine at them, worsening the situation many fold.
       Two years ago after a mini-disaster somewhere in Africa, Canadian TV channels showed a distraught African howling into the camera: “Eight of my kids are dead!” And the news anchors said: “Oh the poor man”, instead of:
       “How many kids did he have, for goodness sake!”

   • Well, the left says the First World consumers are the real problem, and that it is racist to encourage Africans to use birth control or engage in thoughtful family planning.

     Oddly enough, Macron of France called out Africa the other day, and said their women need to stop having 7 or 8 babies. Of course, the SJW crowd flew into a rage at this statement.

     I was shocked the guy has at least one, correct, reality-based opinion rattling around in that empty head.

     • Even a broken clock is twice a day. I am sure his handlers took him aside and made sure he was reeducated on the topic. He will not make the same mistake again.

     • Back in the eighties, one could say ‘birth control’ and ‘fewer children’. European people took it very seriously, partly because we had the fear of global overpopulation drummed into us.

       It was also often an aim of aid organisations.

       I don’t know when this crazed attitude started that helping people decide on and space their children in a healthy, sustainable way was somehow ‘racist’.

       • Fools will always breed indiscriminately. The problem is that the usual means of dealing with such surplus of useless progeny are no longer working. Starvation and pandemic disease have largely been banished by Western advances in agriculture and medicine, so more 3rd worlders survive to multiply uncontrollably. Wars have also been more limited, and like the forest that is never allowed to experience wildfire that clears out the choking underbrush thus preventing massive conflagrations that destroy the trees as well, surplus humanity has grown to the point where when a real war finally takes hold, entire political systems and peoples will disappear forever.

         War, when it finally arrives, will be on a scale of destructiveness incomprehensible to us, and dwarfing previous global conflicts in deaths and destructiveness. This is the consequence of meddling with the natural order of things.

7. Here’s what the inimitable Roy Beck has to say about unfettered immigration into the United States:

   Immigration by the Numbers — Off the Charts

   Immigration by the Numbers 2

   It is rather doubtful that demographers like Beck, as with his European counterparts, adequately examine how Muslim fertility and polygamy will expand the negative repercussions of these already untenable numbers.

   In the case of Europe, epidemic food insecurity, along with water scarcity throughout the Middle East and (North) Africa, will only serve to exacerbate the already horrendous diaspora of economic tourists that continue to arrive by the thousands, every single day.

   Essentially, Europe has two very bleak choices. Either have this massive (and unsustainable) human influx drag down the entire Continent into Third World socioeconomic conditions, or prepare for a civil war that may well include one of the largest rounds of ethnic cleansing in almost a century. The only variable residing within this second path is whether it is the population of indigenous Europeans or its current horde of invaders who will be subjected to that cleansing.

   Again, the options are binary. There will be no diplomatically nuanced middle ground that somehow manages to exclude or avoid both of the aforementioned alternatives. One or the other is all that awaits and any avoidance with respect to delaying—instead of immediately confronting—these grim prospects will only help increase the eventual butcher’s bill.

   Those who precipitated this disaster, like Angela Merkel—along with those who turn a blind eye to this ongoing catastrophe—are guilty of crimes against humanity. There can be no fallback upon “good intentions” (or even the most youthful idealism) that will ever absolve these EU social engineers from the tremendous burden of guilt that they ultimately deserve to bear for this otherwise avoidable calamity.

   The carnage will be of sufficient dimensions such that there will be no shortage of blood for them to have on all of their individual hands.

   • Better the bloodshed begin sooner rather than later, while the numbers of invaders is lower.

   • “Economic tourists”? From what I have read and seen photographs of, they look more like invaders.

8. According to mid-range UN estimates, the population of Africa will octuple between 1990 and 2100; see
   http://www.unz.com/isteve/the-worlds-most-important-graph/

9. That which CANNOT continue, WILL NOT continue.

   We seem to have a problem wrapping our minds around this axiom.
   I dunno.
   Maybe it’s that “copybook headings” problem of which Kipling knew and wrote so well.

10. Malthusian theory revisited. The author makes many valid observations and a logical conclusion based on these observations. A GLARING OMISSION IN THIS ARTICLE IS THE FACT THAT THE AUTHOR IS IGNORING THE IMPLEMENTATION OF POPULATION REDUCTION MEASURES WHICH ARE CURRENTLY BEING IMPLEMENTED such as WAR …ABORTION…..HOMOSEXUALITY….VACCINES….GMO FOODS…..AND THE REAL ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM CALLED ‘ GEO ENGINEERING ‘ WHICH IS POISONING ALL LIFE ON EARTH VIA AIRBORNE SPRAYING OF TOXINS AND SEVERE WEATHER MODIFICATION This so called cure….may be worse than the so called affliction. It is actually making the earth into an uninhabitable wasteland for ALL LIFE.

    • francis–

      Please refrain from using ALL CAPS TO MAKE YOUR POINT. It is the same aa screaming in someone’s face, which I’m sure you wouldn’t do.

      I will continue telling population alarmists the same thing: At mid-century, a huge, global demographic implosion will occur. Geo-strategic analysts, China, and the UN get this. Thus, China’s lifting of its one-child policy.

      We continue to ignore the civilized world’s refusal to have children and we also ignore the current high death rate of children in the 3rd world. Those are merely harbingers of a precipitous drop in population world-wide.

      Demographic implosion is an inescapable thing, much like other natural forces affecting mankind. I won’t be here in 30 years, but my descendants will. I wish them well in the short-term chaos that unprecedented change causes. Perhaps the lesson of humility will finally be learned.

      • Thanks Dymphna, can you give us some links to studies on this? It’s certainly a theory I haven’t heard before.

      • One interesting case of demographic implosion was Europe following the Black Plague.

        For the survivors, there were widespread, quantifiable increases in the quality of life, especially amongst the plebes.

        • As a result of that epidemic, labor costs suddenly increased a lot and it became a seller’s market. A you say, the working class became far better off.

        • Did you ever read “A Distant Mirror” by the late Barbara Tuchman?

          In the 1980s book, she made the case for parallels between the post-Black Plague culture and the then-current (1975ff) concern/hysteria re a coming “nuclear winter”…which has since been replaced by a Salafist end-times similar fear.

          As our culture continues to become unglued, her ideas are more spot-on than ever…

          http://amzn.to/2vwFD1M

          The same is likely to happen after the demographic implosion come mid 21st century. See Lightbringer’s comment re the working class.

      • ALL CAPS IS NECESSARY. Please read all of the other responses to the article about Demographics. Not one other person even wrapped his or her mind around the idea that steps have already been taken { started in the mid nineteen forties } to reduce the population on earth. My idea about this issue is valid and prophetic. Wake up people

        • I disagree. Bolded words are more effective. YOUR ALL CAPS wILL SIMPLY BE SCROLLED PAST.

          Communication is the act of the recipient, francis. So scream if you want, but it drives reasonable people out of the room. In fact, in some comment sections, ALL CAPS COMMENTS ARE DELETED BY THE MODERATORS. And with good reason.

11. Their is not an over population problem; their’s and under compassion problem!

    That may sound like the beginning of screed by virtue signaling progressive regressive posturer. Much of the essay I agree with, however the underlining message I pick up on is that we will abort and abortifacient our way out of this problem.

    Many have argued the greatest medical and moral advent of the 20th century was the development penicillin and the myriad antibiotics. That successful medical phenomena is still in affect despite the naysayers. Simply stepping on a nail does not cull the herd of barefooted farm boys anymore and Spanish Flu epidemics are not faced with hapless and indifferent governments or an ill prepared and non-informed public.

    Population increases are inevitable. Bemoaning this fact should not charge the leaders of our societies to fall into Margaret Sanger like weeping and moaning that the sky is falling. Sounds much like the “global warming” mash-up, which is a new excuse for global terrorism. Seems like we’ll find any and all reasons to cull the herd!

12. More food, more people (ceteris paribus). Next time you hear your own scientists and pundits and everybody and their brother yelling how we must increase agricultural yield, always increase yield, think about it.

    And it’s not only human numbers. It’s human biomass. All those obese people, they really amount to two or three or normal-sized people. That too adds up.

13. I want to add to what Fjordman said.

    He mentioned that more aid to Africa will add to the ability of Africans to pay for transportation to Europe. It is also the case that cultural, and probably genetic, impetus of African culture is to have more children. While Europeans invest resources in preparing and educating their children, Africans invest resources into having more children. So, this is another way that investment and aid to Africa will exacerbate rather than alleviate the population problem.

    With the cultural and genetic norms of Africans, I don’t see a good end to this.

    The most benign action, involving the least actual suffering, would be for African leaders/dictators to impose immediate, permanent sterilization on a very high proportion of African women…and men as well, now that I think of it. This just might make it possible to prevent people from dying of disease and starvation.

    A less benign action would be to make any government or non-government aid contingent on permanent, immediate sterilization. This would entail the starvation of Africans too stupid or too inflexible to adapt to the actual requirements of survival. This trades some freedom for some suffering.

    Yet more drastic would be to simply cut Africa and other centers of population explosions off from any government aid and of course, defend borders with lethal force. George Soros, as a private citizen, would be welcome to invest his entire fortune in fertility clinics for African women who do not have all the children they want. As long as only private money is involved, it wouldn’t make any difference. This action ( I do not refer to it as a solution) would require the deaths of many millions of starvation and disease.

    The very worst situation would be to continue the present situation. Africa would continue to produce people at an exponential rate, many millions of Africans will overrun Europe, and the resulting collapse of European governments and social safety systems will result in the starvation and death by disease of not only most Africans, but of native Europeans. The European deaths resulting from the collapse of social services can be previewed by the declining social services available to native German pensioners, whose pension and medical insurance funds are drained by the demands of masses of unemployable migrants.

14. Hehe, K beat me to it… I knew Al Bartlett in the 60’s in Boulder, in the Rescue Group and physics classes. The students in the above video show varying degrees of disinterest, I was one of them. Well, not THAT video, but same idea. His second most important statement, after the topic subject, was that ‘most people have no idea”; and most today still don’t. But, I fear, his premise will be our demise….
    Anyway, on that dour note, I’ll wish all a happier day.
    -West out

15. The inflow of barbarians will eventually lead to the outflow of Europeans. The small and growing civil wars around the many no-go zones is a precursor to such flight – the history of Europe is that potential warfare is an accelerant of outflow.

16. “In July 2017 the American business magnate Bill Gates, founder of the software giant Microsoft, warned in an interview that Germany and other European countries cannot possibly take in the huge number of people who want to make their way to Europe. The policies many European governments have followed will motivate more people to migrate to Europe. Gates stated that Europe must make it more difficult for Africans to reach the continent via the current transit routes. At the same time, he also encouraged more aid to Africa.[12]”

    How forward thinking of Mr. Gates. I wonder if he forgets that no small part of the population explosions in Africa and sub-Asian countries are directly attributable to the immunization and vaccine programs of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation? Perhaps he’s finally recognizing that the unintended consequences of his humanitarian efforts may one day (sooner than later?) directly affect, negatively, his own family.

    • Come on, the pain and suffering of children dying when they could have been vaccinated was rightly prevented by the Gates Foundation. Clearly, having healthier, surviving children needs to be matched by sensible adults deciding on have fewer of them and giving them a better education.

      • Yes, and someday those surviving children will visit pain and suffering upon the citizens of the western nations who foolishly vaccinated them.

        Imagine instead the pain and suffering of raped women, beheaded men, molested boys, elderly with their throats slit, young girls with faces disfigured by acid.

        We must harden our hearts to African suffering. Every one of them who dies from disease or starvation or war in their own countries spares the lives of Europeans who would have become victims of them in Europe someday.

      • [Redacted name-calling]. With maybe less than a handful of exceptions, those countries are all cesspools. The pain and suffering continues whether the people are sick or healthy. Obviously, you’re oblivious to the fact that the billions of $$ of aid sent to them always ends up in the hands of the privileged few. The West doesn’t need to be the world’s policeman. It doesn’t need to be the world’s physician either when the end result is just more of them to spread their religion of “peace.”

        The West needs to keep them contained. Left to their own devices, they and their system will eventually implode.

        • My last comment was directed to “guest” not The Moon.

17. “At the same time, he (Bill Gates) also encouraged more aid to Africa.[12]”

    Yes. This approach has always worked out so well in the past that we should not only continue but expand it. …../sarcasm

    • Read Kim du Toit on letting Africa sink:

      http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/924795/posts?page=3

      West out

      • The best article I’ve ever seen on the perpetual, all encompassing disaster we know as Africa–should be required reading in all schools, and all western governments, and completely backs up the words of two uncles of mine who lived and died in Zimbabwe (Rhodesia at that time) and South Africa.

      • Yeah.

        Very excellent article, to the extent that reason and facts will change the course of government policy.

        The one big mistake I saw was the assumption that the West acts out of altruistic motives towards Africa, or at the worst, out of a desire to strategically outflank and opponent, like his example of Russian influence in Angola. Russian aid had the usual result: waste of resources, resulting in the same impoverished, economic and human basket case.

        But, in fact, self-interest is involved in the Western interference in Africa. It simply takes a different form. The West is a bit too sophisticated for officials to simply take government funds for themselves. They can do it, but the risk is significant, even for the Clintons. So, the standard approach for government and NGO officials is to gin up a crisis, stimulate the flow of funds through their group, and take out a percentage in the form of promotions, bonuses, higher salaries, and prestigious underlings.

        Both military and humanitarian aid fall into these categories. But, Africa is a convenient sink-hole, where endless aid can be buried without showing the least effect.

        My point is that to leave Africa, and other continents alone, you have to address not only blind altruism, but the naked self-interest of the bureaucrats in power. And although Africans do not mix with Europeans, and should be left in Africa, morally, is a chief who starves his tribe all that different from the bureaucrat who knowingly depletes the pension funds his constituents depend on? The bureaucrat is using his own naked self-interest to damage the people he is responsible for. The effects simply don’t become apparent until the bureaucrat himself is long gone.

18. There is a simple way to control mass invasion (not immigration) into Europe. Patrol boats throughout the Mediterranean sea armed to the teeth ready to bomb out to the clear skies every marine vessel carrying black and muslim invaders sailing from the shores of Africa. Why don’t they do that is beyond comprehension.

    The muslim invasion of Europe is the story of the Trojan Horse 2.0 with a twist. In this 21-st century modern version of the Trojan war, citizens and royalty of Troy pay the Greek to build the horse, they provide to them the raw materials and the labor to build it and they pay room and board to the Greek soldiers hidden inside the horse’s hollow interior. Can you guess how this new mis-en-scene of the Trojan war ends? Hint: The first one ended in Troy being completely destroyed and its citizens killed or taken captive.

19. I don’t worry about overpopulation – but about the great tribulation which should be so bad – that if the time won’t be cut short, no flesh would remain alive. And all it would take is to unleash modern weapons – and that is quite a plausible scenario – so brace yourselves 😉

    • At mid-century a global demographic implosion is coming. So far, only geo-strategic analysts, plus the UN and China are taking it seriously. I recommend the book on our sidebar, UnCivilization. He describes but doesn’t prescribe any solutions – it would be akin to prescribing solutions for a hurricane or an earthquake.

      Could be that it’s even a sum benefit in the long run. The short term will be chaos, as the end to all epochs always are.

      • “A mid-century global demographic implosion is coming”. But only geo-strategic analysts (who have a spotless record), the UN (another highly respected source) and China (!) are taking it seriously.

        With respect, Lady D., why would you posit such an unlikely scenario against all the present indications; did Wal-Mart have a sale of crystal balls?

        We all have our solutions, some more drastic than others, but I’m wondering if scientists could come up with something to put in drinking water to render vast numbers of people sterile. At least temporarily.

        Certainly, there had better be an implosion of sorts, while we still have some wild animals and lonely places left.

        • No need to insult me, Peter. I have been doing research on the subject and have left up permanently a book on the sidebar that explains the situation and suggests that cities get to know their contiguous rural areas. His book is one of several on the subject.

          China is corrupt but it is not stupid. The fact is that it ended its draconian one-child-per-family rule because it wants to prepare for what’s coming and to be ahead of the Western curve, whose population branches are well-nigh stripped bare.

          History isn’t linear: what is occurring in the present is not what is likely to keep happening. At the very least your argument suffers from presentism, a turn of mind that has left many unprepared for the future. China bumbles and stumbles (the one-child presentism rule) but it is always attempting to look ahead. It would be much more clear-sighted were it not so corrupt. In that area, we’re catching up.

          • FGS, there was no insult, and I wish you wouldn’t take offence so easily, just because someone doesn’t agree with you. (usually I do, as you should know by now)

            Re China, I agree they’re not usually stupid, but they were under Mao. Deng Zhao Ping was different, a very smart man.

          • There was no insult intended, but the gratuitous remark about getting crystal balls from Walmart showed you hadn’t even checked out my sources. Read.The.Book. Sir Gregory Copley is a geo-strategic analyst and a respected expert on the subject.

            UnCivilization: Urban Geopolitics in a Time of Chaos
            http://amzn.to/2t3ABsD

            Mr. Copley has other books, online in pdf form, that are worth your while. Just because you don’t know about the subject doesn’t mean snark furthers the conversation.

            BTW, insulting me by questioning my sources the way you did, doesn’t make my respone “defensive”. I called you on an unwarranted slam.

            I’m done with this conversation. Glad to talk with you again when you’ve done some research and moved beyond a linear look at the future.

          • I know you live in the sticks, so I’m going to conclude Schloss Bodissey ran out of morning coffee, or your PTSD is playing up.

          • Read.The.Book.

        • “scientists put something in the drinking water to render vast numbers of people sterile“???

          That’s the Margaret Sanger solution and violates every rule of Western freedoms…but you know that, despite your means-justifies-the-ends-thinking.

          Thank God we have a well.

          • Hey, I’m offended, insulted!
            You know I’m not, but seriously, a hell of a lot of Western freedoms are being violated right now, as you well know, and surely you will agree a lot more are going to be violated if we are ever to escape the mess we’re in.
            Nor, in my estimation, are we making any headway….
            Nor will we, as long as we observe Geneva rules, while the enemy observes no such gentlemanly boundaries. Just my humble opinion.

          • I like Jesus’ philosophy better: “be as innocent as a dove and as wise as a serpent”. Maybe he was channeling Confucious??

            Putting drugs into a water system is simply evil. Many municipal systems already have chlorine, fluoride, and by accident, lots of anti-depressants in them already.

      • I know I read the Bible differently than you do, and I also had been one of the believers in the overpopulated Earth. Nevertheless – given my profession as a telecomunication engineer, I get to ravel a lot. Most of my work is just traveling from place to place and installing or repairing radio equipment.

        And so – more and more – I dicontinued my malthusian beliefs, because they simply hadn’t measured up to reality.

        Sahara – empty with 100 percent sun, absolutely no technological problem to irrigate – except “the will to do so”. The water is there – underground. And it is surrounded by seas which we the menkind are capable of desalinating.

        Siberia – almost empty.

        Arctic circle – almost empty.

        Greenland, Antarctica…

        Arizona…

        Australia…

        There is simply still a very long way for mankind to “overpopulate” the planet. That is the way I see it. And no – Water is not the problem: The only problem is the will to work on currently deserted lands.

        And that is where the “refugees from overpopulated Africa come in: Sweden tried to spread them over the wast swedish wilderness, but guess what?

        The refugees do not like wilderness. They like cities!

        And it is easy to feel overpopulated in the city…

        But the city is not “the world”.

        That is how I see it. I do not believe in overpopulation. But famine and war – that I can believe in.

        After all – even Hitler thought Germany was overpopulated and needed a “breathing space”.

        The actual truth was – Germany under National Socialism was an economic mess, and overpopulation was just the ruling class excuse for messing economy up.

        • One thing is certain, you have NOT spent any time in the ’empty’ places you list, while I have in four of them.

          And you’d have millions of people living there?

          • Peter35, your comment at 12.23pm above is gratuitously offensive. I’m sure Dymphna is capable of defending herself, but that’s my two cents’ worth.

            On the broader question of people having large families, this made sense when and where most children didn’t survive into adulthood, since there was no expectation of a pension for the parents; it was an investment in their care in old age. The decrease in mortality, largely due indeed to western medicine, maybe hasn’t sunk into people’s consciousness; or perhaps women can’t obtain or insist on adequate birth control methods.

          • One thing is certain. I have spent a lot of time in the ’empty’ places I list, except for Australia and Siberia, so why would I be wrong?

          • Mark, sigh, yet another one with no sense of humour….

        • Barn Swallow,

          I disagree with you regarding the ability of the planet to support far more people just because some parts of the planet are presently without human populations. Regardless of what the Bible says regarding the advisability of humans multiplying to eternity like bacteria in a petri dish, humans follow the same biological rules as every other organism.

          The current episode of gross overpopulation the human race is experiencing has more to do with our ability to extract and convert the energy contained in primordial sunlight into fertilizers, deep aquifer irrigation schemes, and energy slaves to harvest the resulting surplus and distribute it to all the excess billions. Just like globalist banker ponzi schemes, exponential population growth also relies upon stealing from the future to allow growth in the present. Bankers steal from and enslave future generations to keep the economy afloat on a sea of unpayable debt; exponential population growth also uses every available means to convert finite irreplaceable resources into supporting populations of unimaginable size.

          This begs the question, why should the inheritance of future generations unborn be squandered in the present to support multiplying hordes of useless Africans and other Third World peoples who contribute nothing to society or the betterment of humanity? Not that I am in favor of seeing First World populations also breeding like rats; just because it is possible for humans to do something does not mean it is necessarily a good idea to do so.

          • Hi Moon,

            I understand your argument and I think it is valid under the “official circumstances” we are told we live in.

            Let me put it in another way: There is some information regarding the collapse of the mesoamerican civilisation around Teotihuacan. Originally those pyramids, I heard, were white as snow, and the Indians were cutting a lot of trees to make it possible.

            It was absolutely essential and unavoidable to keep the city “white” – so much so that they cut all trees in the area, destroyed the ecosystem, and…

            …And being good mind controlled socialists that they were (there is also some info about the brainwashing that the priest class performed on the population), the leaders of Teotihuacan decided it is time to get rid of tens of thousands of people in one day sacrifice.

            Makes sense: Not enough food to feed your overpopulated city? You must kill someone off – right?

            Yet the need for white paint, for which the forrest had been cut to the ground, remained as long as the whole civilisation.

            We could say they were very stupid, but I believe it is typical behaviour for civilisations that are run by “god-like Sun Kings”, who never fail and they are omnipotent and all powerful…

            Just like the ruling class we have today 🙂

            – Bacteria and exponential growth: Yes it is a valid point, except that people are not bacteria, and I have a reason to believe that first world conditions create sustainable population growth. Which is quite unlike third world conditions – which prefer the “rat model”.

            – Oil: I don’t believe we are dependent on oil. But I do believe we are dependent on this “great oil delusion” which is 1850’s gas and diesel engine technology. And just as AC Tesla encountered strong resistance from DC Edison, it is my understanding that the “next generation technologies” are here, but they are kept secret.

            I am a believer in cold fusion. The only problem is – once the Jihadis figure it out – it will be a Big Bang.

            So – in conclusion. Thirdworlders do breed out of their means, and we should not support that. But on the other hand – I don’t see it as a breeding problem, but an intelligence problem.

            The water is hidden in huge lakes under Sahara. I wonder if God does it on purpose to prove his point that we are provided for, but we just refuse to see it 😉

      • Dymphna,

        You recall that for a brief period, Uncivilization was made available, with the permission of the author, in pdf form. I got one of the files. I was deeply curious about the basis for the prediction that the world will experience a dramatic depopulation beginning around 2050.

        Apparently, the basis for the prediction is the deep difference between cities and rural areas. Traditionally, cities have been centers of wealth, technological development, and commerce, while rural areas have been centers of agricultural production, independent farmers and craftsmen, and traditional values. Farming and rural existence generally valued large families.

        There is currently a massive population transfer from rural to urban areas, abetted by disproportional government resources going to urban areas because of the massive numbers of urban people. This shifts food production to an ever-decreasing number of people and decreasing acreages of land. As populations grow, the support becomes more fragile and vulnerable. And urban existence radically decreases the pressures for large families.

        I think this logic is the basis for Copley’s prediction of depopulation. He seems vague on the question of whether the depopulation will result from Malthusian causes (starvation, disease) or from a natural population response to urbanization. I didn’t spend a lot of time on the book, since other books I’m reading have had more interesting approaches to such questions.

        I get the impression he is totally neutral on population genetics (confirmed by a text search) and the different innate characteristics of different human sub-groupings (races) (again confirmed by a text search).

        So, my betting is that he does not address the very important question of whether sub-groups of humans associated with particular geographic locations will be allowed to act so as to preserve their nature and heritage. In other words, will migration be stopped either before it destroys the receiver countries, or after it destroys them (when all the economic benefits of migration will disappear).

        I should emphasize that there would be problems with population deterioration even if borders were perfectly enforced. Governments may have a role in the protection of their native people and culture, through mechanisms such as moderate tariffs and market protections. And you’re hearing this from a former libertarian. One example of such problems is the tendency of land and wealth to collect in a few hands, who specialize in wealth collection and who do not have the interests of the actual country in mind.

        • As usual, an excellent summary. [I also liked his “Art of Victory” – an anthology from 2012, iirc. His predictions about Australia’s deeply mistaken carbon tax laws turned out to be correct.]

          In addition to his group, he has connections to various global strategic issues. Here’s one I haven’t seen mentioned in the US press:

          http://www.futuredirections.org.au/publication/president-trumps-infrastructure-plan-addressing-mississippi-river/

          Even the essay itself is novel in its scope.

          Several other authors have written about the demographic implosion at length, including David Goldman, aka Spengler at the Asia. This is from 2011:

          How Civilizations Die: (And Why Islam Is Dying Too)

          http://amzn.to/2ux0lRO

          As is often the case with books that come at this problem from a cultural angle, the reviews are worth reading. The first one for this book is a 5-star recommendation with much info on Iran’s current population implosion. One could surmise that the downfall of Iran will be due to a population drop…which makes the leaders even more unstable and their behaviors more problematic for the rest of us, should they believe they’ve nothing left to lose.

          Not one country that has been trying to bribe/encourage/order its people to multiply has had any success…

          And no one has been able to wake the US (except for Maine) to the notion that an EMP could bring us down. Way down.

          https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/category/homeland-security/infrastructure-and-emp/

          • Hi Dympha,

            The article concerning the revitalization of the Mississippi River transportation network makes me think of the problem of corporations, where the executives forego maintenance to improve the yearly balance and collect big bonuses based on the stock price at a specified date. Any long-term stockholder would eject the executives and reject the idea of bonuses based on stock prices, but stocks are now traded through mutual funds and algorithms.

            The problem of depopulation occurred in the Roman Empire and the Byzantine Empire, for the same reasons. The small farmers were driven off the land by a combination of cheap foreign goods and the rapacious greed of the moneylenders and landowners.

            Interestingly, deflation, or the increasing value of currency, played major parts in dispossessing the native small farmers. When deflation occurred, the prices the farmers could get for their crops went down, and they were unable to service their debts.

            https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Law_of_Civilization_and_Decay/Chapter_I

            But, going back to the infrastructure question, it’s quite obvious that Congress and the US government have been buying votes through entitlement programs at the expense of investment. Clinton and Obama, of course, referred to all entitlement spending as “investment” in the population. However, investment is always a deferral of present spending, and as the US population dumbs down, it’s doubtful that many politicians will survive who favor actually cutting benefits.

            On a methodological issue, I doubt if anyone other than us is reading this thread anymore, so not wanting to have the last word, but I suggest you not reply here at this point unless you want just me to read it.

20. There is a programme running on British TV just now which has debt collectors and high court enforcement agents turning up at people’s doors and evicting them.

    On the show tonight they turned up at this fellow’s door – apparently he owed his landlord £5 800 (approx $7 600).

    Now this boy had his “wife” wandering about in the property wearing a black sheet over her, and they had five children with a sixth about to arrive.

    And he claimed that the benefits which were supposed to pay his rent had in fact gone through so the arrears were cleared.

    Hold on!

    This gadgie had pitched up in the UK with a female human being wrapped in a black sheet, had a whole tribe of children, and the taxpayer was paying his rent for him!!!

    On this occasion, the agents duly evicted him & off he trotted to the local council, entire tribe in tow, to be re-housed at the taxpayer’s expense once again …

    Six children this pair had! Six!

    At our expense!

21. And with the advent of robotics leading to mass unemployment, at the same time as Islamic “radicalism” grows in many of these highly growing populations, surely this signifies a perfect storm leading to major conflict?

22. simple solution, world war |||

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