Karoly Lorant is a Hungarian engineer and an economist. More than a decade ago, when he was a member of the European Parliament, Mr. Lorant wrote a careful analysis of demographic trends in Europe that are leading the continent inexorably towards a Muslim future.
The article below is a follow-up examing the current state of affairs eleven years later. Given the “migration” crisis that has been underway in Europe for more than a year, the original article is more relevant than ever, with the process of Islamization well underway.
The referenced document, “The demographic challenge in Europe” by Karoly Lorant, Economist, Brussels (April 2005) is here.
Many thanks to CrossWare for translating this article by Karoly Lorant from Magyar Hírlap:
Has it started?
by Karoly Lorant
http://www.europarl.europa.eu“In German politics a strong conflict exists. What looks logical for its leaders endangers their voters.”
Somehow I had nothing to do in December 2004 in EU Parliament, so I decided to create a demographic model of the European Union. Of course there are official institutions that make such calculations, but my model’s special purpose was to separate the population into Muslim and non-Muslim components. This falls far outside political correctness, and official demographers were afraid to do this, at least in public.
The model itself was an Excel spreadsheet, and the demographic changes in the population were shown in five-year age groups in such way that for example a 15-19 year age group moved into the 20-24 group. I included the age-specific death rate; the women had kids based on their age group, (boys and girls) who were actually put into the 0-4 age group.
The model then was modified to include incoming and outgoing migrations. The key question of the model was to determination of Muslim population parameters (population age groups, age-specific death rates, and in the case of women, the fertility rate), because this type of statistic does not exist in Europe, thanks to political correctness. In the end I solved the problem by looking at the country of origin for statistical inputs and tried to assess the data from there. For the future all data element was adjustable so, with this publicly available model everyone based on their own convictions could calculate the demographic future of Europe.
When I wrote an essay, “The Demographic challenge in Europe”, and I showed it to my colleagues, they were afraid to take a stance, even though we were a Eurosceptic group that included Nigel Farage (who became famous spearheading Brexit). Finally the Italian colleagues who were managing our home page posted it without asking anyone’s permission, and even today it is still available there.
To make useful my (“now official”) essay I visited the building next door where the Europe’s World magazine was printed in 25,000 copies. They either found the essay too large or myself too small, but they refused to publish it. After some time they called me up, because Klaus Regling of the Director of European Committee — Financial and Economical Directorates wrote an article about the aging of Europe, and they wanted me to write a 600-word summary. I wrote that, bringing attention to the fact that, looking at present tendencies in Western Europe, by mid-century we will have a Muslim community with a population of 70-80 million. Also within the same interval that separates Napoleon and Wellington’s time from today, “homo europensis” will be extinct.
The reason for the extinction, due to cultural and other factors, is the fact that the age-specific fertility rates of twenty-something girls have drastically decreased, and they are not making up this difference even in their thirties. (This tendency can be seen very clearly in data from the 40-year-old age lines collected in Norway). Regling’s PC article with my summary was finally published in the February 2006 issue of Europe’s World.
The next instance was in 2009 when Adrian Michaels, the Editor of Foreign Policy at The Daily Telegraph, contacted me, asking my permission to quote from the essay I wrote for the EU Parliament. This overstated the significance of my little essay, as I originally wrote it to fulfill my own curiosity, and Martin Schulz, the President of European Parliament, would lose his marbles if he were to find out what is on that web page.
Michaels’ article was published on August 8th, 2009 with the title: “Muslim Europe: the demographic time bomb transforming our continent”. The article was referenced by many newspapers all over the world. Based on the events of last year and this year, it is worth quoting his article’s first sentence: “Great Britain and Europe ignore this demographic time bomb. Migrants into the EU that include millions of Muslims will change unrecognizably the face of continent in the next two decades, and none of the politicians is talking about it.”
Michaels also stated that at that time the polls showed no fears yet of the radicalisation of European Muslims, but for the second and third generation integration is harder than for their parents. The Muslims had not yet formed parties (today that is no longer true), but some American security studies were already discussing how the United States’ Middle East policies will be affected when its traditional allied countries have significant Muslim populations.
From a demographic model one can bring out many different and conflicting results by changing its parameters, but one thing is certain: with present trends unchanged, some Western-European countries will have a Muslim majority by the second half of the century. For me, while I was creating my model — influenced by the street view of Brussels — the question was and still is: how will this change happen?!
Even today is very clear that Muslims living in the major cities of Western Europe will isolate themselves, and more and more they want to live based on their own culture (language and law). Based on present trends, these growing Muslim enclaves will provide the majority of the population. It is hard to imagine this changes will happen without violent conflicts, and it is very possible that Western Europe will become the location of heavy ethnic violence.
The Daily Telegraph, where Michaels’ article was published seven years ago, in its August 7th issue published an article by Stephen Green, who writes about the very same topic. His article’s title already gives it away: “The politics of national identity”. This topic, taboo for the longest time, is now more often on the agenda in Germany.
Green’s opinion is that there is a serious conflict in the German politics. What looks logical for its leaders — the policy of “open doors” — will endanger the identity of a large portion of their voters. Too many immigrants suffer from the identity conflict resulting from the poisonous mix of lack of roots and rejection. Many of them feel a threat to their identity by the foreign culture of the new immigrants, who competing with them for their jobs. As a result one action will justify too often another one. Green’s final conclusion: “For whom life is hard, resentfulness will turn into violence, because they have nothing to lose!”
From all of the above — in my politically incorrect opinion —only one conclusion can be drawn for Hungary: Resist to the bitter end to the politics of migration, because if we end up with enclaves of foreign (Muslim) cultures in our country, Islamization will be unstoppable, and it is only a matter of time before we experience the same types of conflicts that already characterize Western Europe, and of which there will be more in the future.
It’s fascinating how accurately both Green and Karoly predicted much of what we are seeing today in Western Europe. I wonder though, if what they didn’t count on was 1) the sheer will of the native Europeans to survive as a culture (and they will need to wake up, but we can feel the rumblings now) and 2) the U.S. will want to defend European culture too, when violence begins (as it always has). I have to, as I’ve said so many times, mention the wisdom of Hungary, who along with only a handful of others such as Poland and Slovakia, have drawn firm lines limiting Muslim immigration across their borders, and have spoken honestly, frankly, and consistently about the realities of potential Islamic oppression of Western culture. Baron, thanks for sharing this… really fascinating stuff.
“the U.S. will want to defend European culture”.
I have maintained and stated on several blogs over the years that this will precipitate a serious foreign policy debate for the U.S. Do not underestimate the power of cultural Marxism presently in power in the elite institutions and agencies of the U.S. They are more subtle than Merkel, but will advocate just as assiduously for the rights of the minorities in Europe.
Do not assume that they will take the side of the European natives and their culture.
It pains me to write this, but it is true. The most you can expect would be neutrality in your civil conflict, at least from the official government. My guess is that there would be in unofficial and surreptitious aid and support from American citizens.
the question is: can hungary really resist against the influence of an islamic EU in the year of 2050? AFAIK atm they have not much military to offer. They better should begin to invest in it.
That is a good question! I hope by then a new alliance will emerge which include the V4 countries as core: Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia and later joined by the Baltic region: Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. The southern countries could join once they got rid of their politically correct idiots they now call “leaders”: Serbia, Croatia, Romania and Bulgaria. Of course there is a lot of riding on the 2016 US election. With a Trump presidency the EU globalists will lose their major backing and nationalists will get a boost. Also despite the fact many of this countries do not like Russia (based on their past Soviet deeds), they probably ally themselves with them to defend against the pressure of Islamic states like Germany, Sweden and France. (I could list more).
I think the most important conclusion is NOT LET IN Muslims because the most effective weapon they have is to rot a society from the inside.
Mmmm. Imagine a time, maybe 20 years hence, when Americans, Canadians & Australians wishing to ‘experience’ Europe travel to the “common sense” bloc of European nations from Estonia in the north, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Croatia and Slovenia. Because all of Europe to the West of that bloc is an Islam-infested nightmare no sane non-Muslim person would want to travel to. Maybe Austria will get sensible and orient itself to the “common sense” bloc. Switzerland becomes an informal associate member as it sees France, Germany & Italy slide into mayhem.
Personally, I can’t see the Irish putting up with Islamification to a much greater degree for much longer, so they’ll become politically associated with the ‘Common Sense” bloc , as a kind of Western outlier, with their Catholic cousins of Central and Eastern Europe.
The great train ride of Europe for “New World” Westerners would be the Tallinn to Dubrovnik sleeper train. In Prague, Warsaw, Riga, Budapest, Zagreb and Split there will be huge expatriate communities of Brits, Dutch, Germans, French, Danes, Italians and Spaniards.
Instead of Paris, Prague becomes the hub for Western travelers arriving in Europe. Czechia becomes the wealthy, cutting-edge free country of Europe rivaling Switzerland.
I think you’re mistaken about Switzerland. The Gutmenschen there are eagerly importing lots of cultural enrichment. They want their country to be just like Germany and France.
Ask Nash Montana the next time she shows up here; she’ll tell you.
Thanks for the insight, Julius. It gives us hope. I thought I was never going back to Europe again. My travel agent should thank you. 🙂
I suspect that if things get *really* bad, the Russians might provide help, being as they have similar problems of their own.
Russians start to look quite friendly when the alternative is the caliphate!
The Russians are in fact quite friendly, IMO.
I do not accept the current attempt by the neocons to demonize Putin and, if anything, Russian actions can be better understood as refusing to put up with outrageous US meddling on their borders and elsewhere as though we’re on a mission from God. Crimea would be in Ukraine right now but for the US successful effort to undermine an elected government.
I recognize yours was an offhand remark but a lot of fools are wedded to the idea that we should have a new Cold War. It’s amazing to watch the chest thumping of the bright lights on Fox News. Beware! Beware!
It was an off-hand remark, but seriously, I see no reason for a cold war with the Russians. I think that Putin’s ambitions are not in obvious conflict with the West.
I’ll say this: the last time that the going got *really* rough, Americans and Russians ended up on the same side. I suspect that it may well happen again.
Just as the Roman empire split into the oriental (eastern) and occidental (western) empires, and the eastern one was conquered and destroyed by the muslims, it’s very plausible that in 15-20 years or so Europe will divide into Eastern and Western again, but this time it’ll be the western part that will be erased by Islam.
I hope that when the time comes, the Eastern europeans will open their gates to western european refugees….
Excellent appraisal. I think it will mean a largely sharia controlled Western Europe by 2023 to 2030, based upon my own studies. The Moslems do not need a majority but indeed ruling elites always rule from a minority based upon their control of governance and finance. Our “Progressive” classes support this takeover. It is one reason I left academia and took to writing as an independent. Even back in the early Nineties they were boasting about how Islam was to be used as a tool to destroy the West and “Rub the Right’s nose in it!”
Bishop
What do you think will happen in the future ? A civil war ?
Civil war? It has been going on for the last 4 decades.
Only Traitors, who are asses more than donkey, with rhetoric, deny it exists.
This war is latent: it does not need an einsteinish brain to detect it. Some do not see it because they deliberate choose not to. Others cannot see it because their heads are emerged in sports, booze and sex parties. Loud music helps them put a barrier between themselves and the outside real world of donkyes helping islam to invade.
They pray the devil’s prayer that the west will remain asleep until it is too late to gain victory over islam.
People without honor sell their countries and values to Qatar and Saudi Arabia for votes and $100, 000, 000.
Cursed by those who don’t know how to love their compatriots.
Really? Why did they want to destroy the West, if I may ask? It’s like cutting off the branch you are sitting on, no?
That’s how it seems to you. From their vintage point the look is different. Allah sent them in Europe to redeem it for Islam. The wealth is not created, only changes hands. It’s time for them to collect. And yes, there is something that is usually relegated to 20-something boys. Women. They are important in a science called Biology. All of these invaders change the men/women ratio, at the detriment of the white man. It is much worse so that the white man has to work and pay the bill of his own extinction. Muslims are the guests of Merkel and are here only to impregnate women and give us fertility. The gran mufti of Jerusalem said it for everybody to hear. Bet my comment will be banned.
Ilia, I was asking the bishop why he said that “Even back in the early Nineties they [the Progressives] were boasting about how Islam was to be used as a tool to destroy the West and “Rub the Right’s nose in it!” — I was thinking the Progressives were cutting off the branch they were sitting on… unless they were just plain paid off traitors, and I don’t think they were at that time.
Vera, the dream and order of allah is that muslims must conquer the world. 1000 years ago, the world was Asia, Europe, Africa. They did everything to conquer the world, but Europe destroyed islam’s dream. This is why Europe is most important to be conquered. Now…after a very long dream, when oil start flow and money start accumulating in some specific accounts, the dream start becoming possible. So, they start investing in this dream. Buy politicians and you can control a country. This is what they did. First, buying politicians, then infiltrating own people in European political system…and in parallel, millions of “them” taking a trip to Europe. Now, as mass-media in Romania announced today, Germany start recruiting soldiers from east Europe, Romania included. But, there is a big question in Romania now… Why ? What is Germany preparing for that they don’t trust own military ? There are some answers…but I will let you guess… 🙂
Vera, they are just plain traitors. Coudenhove Kalergi designed the flag of EU and chose its anthem. Yet his books are prohibited for republication in the same way as Hitler’s. How is that? Is he too complicated for us the little guys to understand? Is there some scary truth in his books? I leave it to this, otherwise they will ban me at GoV.
These guys, our governing class, are told sweetling lies for their ears. Does Van Rompuy look too smart to you? Well, the extermination of one billion whites has been very carefully planned. It is being executed in front of our eyes. We don’t resist for fear of immediate consequences.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ERmOpZrKtw
This 37-second video is too heavy for my stomach to watch twice, but it made me immediately change sides. I am a professor at university, and am taking enormous risks by writing in my name here, and by talking to young people how (((they))) are exterminating us, in our face. The difference between (((them))) and the rest of the world is that the rest of the world learn from their misfortunes, (((they))) make a business out of them.
NOTICE TO READERS: I am letting this comment through because I want you to see how anti-semites work. The use of (((they))) and (((them))) is code for JOOOZ. Once you decode that last paragraph, the meaning becomes clear. Thus,
I am a professor at university, and am taking enormous risks by writing in my name here, and by talking to young people how (((Jews))) are exterminating us, in our face. The difference between (((Jews))) and the rest of the world is that the rest of the world learn from their misfortunes, (((Jews))) make a business out of them.
—————————————
No, dear readers, I have no idea why the contrivance of having this third person pronoun enclosed in three parentheses represents JOOOZ but it does…just one of the strange factoids one learns in cyberspace.
The good professor doesn’t like it when I’m verbose so I’ll end it here – but I hope one of you can tell us why (((WHOO JOOZ))) has become, as youngsters say, ‘a thing’ among anti-Semites…
As for his fear of discovery, here’s a lecture of his on You Tube, where his name and face appear. So much for that ‘fear’…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If8ny6TjoEk
This is a one-off. There won’t be any more (((JOOOZ!))) except for the purposes of exposing such thinking.
Meanwhile, if you want to donate to Sderot, here’s their Donation Page…I plan to do so as soon as I let this darkness in the door. I consider it a karmic restoration…
http://www.hopeforsderot.com/?page_id=3090
Progressive elites are happy to make common cause with Islam to destroy the post-Christian culture they both despise. However, elites think they will always remain in their positions of power. They are gravely ignorant about how patient, ruthless and underhanded that Muslims can be.
It’s the same as the “progressives” have done in the United States with various “integration” schemes.
For quite a while, those with money can avoid the effects of their own behaviour. As a result, it continues until it’s too late (unless the working classes stop it, essentially).
Sufficient money will probably provide insulation in Europe for the next 30-50 years. At that point, the elites will move somewhere else and screw *that* place up, too.
Dymphna – thanks for pushing back on the anti-semitism. Those of us here who are Jewish really appreciate it a lot.
I can assure Dr Toli that we Jews have no such plans. There are individual Jews, such as Soros, who do [really important part coming up] BUT THEY ARE JUST AS HAPPY TO MESS UP ISRAEL AS THEY ARE TO MESS UP EUROPE OR THE USA. Barbara Lerner Spectre, I also have no use for, trust me.
Unfortunately, while anti-semites often perceive the problem quite correctly, they mis-identify the cause as being “The Jooz”. This isn’t just bad for the Jews, but for everyone, because a lot of otherwise useful energy is completely wasted on the wrong target (again, there are individual Jews that are quite worthy targets, such as Soros, and I have nothing against exposing them).
Sadly, I’ve hardly ever seen an anti-semite realise the error of his ways. One of my cousins is a rabid anti-semite (not all of my family is Jewish), and this, despite having Jewish family. He’s still a nice guy, though the diatribes get a bit tiresome. I even know an anti-semite who is 1/4 Jewish – enough to have had some problems under the nazis.
As I always try to say: Dr Toli, please reconsider your theories, and apply them to the Saudi Royal Family instead of “The Jooz”. You’re likely to be a lot closer to the truth with that one. Consider that there’s a conspiracy theory going around the Arab world that the Saudi Royals are Jewish, if it makes you feel better. They’re not. But the reason for this conspiracy theory is the same as for anti-semitism in general: an inability to look at the faults in one’s own group. Think of Western “Political Correctness” for the Western culture equivalent of the problems in the Arab world. And trust me, PC is bad, really bad.
As far as I can determine, the onset of Jew-hatred ratchets in only one direction. In my experience, once someone is bitten by the Jew-hating bug, he never returns. He falls down that jew-jew-jew-jew well and can’t climb out.
I’ve known a number of people who were more or less normal before they were stricken with Jew-obsession. None of them ever abandoned it.
The origin of the ((())) meme is explained on Tech.Mic here:
https://mic.com/articles/144228/echoes-exposed-the-secret-symbol-neo-nazis-use-to-target-jews-online#.PdhhyrGv8
It is the typographical form of an echo effect applied to Jewish names on a podcast by an antisemitic blog called [i]Right Stuff[/i].
Blogger “Anonymous Conservative” wrote this series of essays a while back to explain the overall motivations of leftists who seem bound and determined to destroy the societies in which they live. The short version is that they suffer, as a group, from narcissistic personality disorder that causes them to act as they do to protect their fragile ego structure from the harsh facts of reality. It is a sad fact that they will do anything to avoid facing the reality about who and what they are, including the destruction of Western Civilization.
I highly recommend this series of posts to better understand the motivations of the left and why you cannot reason with them. AC instead shows that you can fight against the left by using emotional manipulation tactics and he gives examples that show how this works.
http://www.anonymousconservative.com/blog/touching-the-raw-amygdala-an-analysis-of-liberal-debate-tactics-preface/
@Vera
Fe. the Green politicians Joschka Fischer and Daniel Cohn Bendit did argue that way during the Iranian Revolution (1978).
They welcomed Islam as a third way next to Capitalism and Communism.
Sorry, only a german link for this (you can run it through Google Translator):
http://www.fr-online.de/politik/said–noch-nie-war-der-islam-im-iran-so-verpoent-wie-heute-,1472596,3349158.html
Astuga and Red Moon, I appreciate you sending explanatory links. Will study both. It boggles the mind. Like the fact that feminists are loath to criticize Islam. What kind of treatment will their daughters get in islamized lands, do they ever care?
Baron: sadly, you’re right, in that I’ve never seen an anti-semite come back from it, either.
My personal pet project to is walk my cousin back from anti-semitism, but no luck after years of trying.
This might partially explain why so many Jews are “lefty”. Lefties on the surface aren’t anti-semitic, though when you dig, you find that they’re often worse (i.e., “anti-zionist” in a sense that they apply standards that they apply to Israel and no other country).
As an aside, you’d think that if lefties had Jews, righties hate Jews and Islamos hate Jews, Jews must be something really bad, or good, or different. One of the big shocks that Joe Average has upon visiting a large collection of concentrated Jews (i.e., Israel) is how *normal* a place it is! Yes, I’ve been trying to convince my cousin to visit. Interesting, despite being a through and through anti-semite, he isn’t *scared* of visiting it. Which makes me think that at *some* level, he knows that his stuff is BS.
“I think it will mean a largely sharia controlled Western Europe by 2023 to 2030, based upon my own studies.” What studies are they Bish?
Please check out my demographic calculator:
http://chauffer-roy-57626.bitballoon.com/
It is so refreshing to source one’s “news and current affairs” from this website. What MSM outlet would publish this pertinent analysis, or rather analyses – as Karoly Lorant’s 2005 publication is well world a read – of the most pressing problem facing Europe? And more broadly the world.
Lorant, in the 2005 essay identifies, based on rigorous Norwegian data, that there is a direct correlation between late marriage and low fertility rate: the babies women don’t have in their 20’s are not postponed, they are never born. In other words, a tertiary educated working woman might have 1 or 2 children in her 30’s, but with a substantial proportion of her cohort never having any children, there won’t be the minimum 2.1 average children born necessary to maintain population sustainment.
There is a solution and the prescient, brilliant and wise late Lee Kwan Yew of Singapore pointed the way: encourage educated upper middle class and middle class women to have children. How can this be done? The French model is dead wrong as it gives tax incentives to ALL women to have children. This financially rewards non-working Muslim women giving birth to more children, thus worsening the Muslim demographic problem facing Europe and rest of the the West. A problem compounded by welfare states financially rewarding non-working* couples – a huge cohort of the Muslim population in the West – for having lots of children.
The solution is relatively simple: financially incentivize tertiary and secondary educated working women to have children. The income tax systems in Western countries presently punishes working couples who have children.
1. Make the cost of childcare of sub-primary and primary school aged children tax-deductible. In a 1970’s tax case an Australian woman legally challenged the Australian Tax Office for not allowing the cost of child care to be an income tax deduction. Her logic was compelling: she could only continue to work if she paid somebody to take care of her children during working hours, therefore such cost should be a work-related expense and hence tax-deductible. As this would have a significant impact on tax revenue, it was disallowed. And in the ensuing decades Australia’s birthrate seriously declined as educated women chose career over children. Uneducated and non-working women produce progeny (single mother welfare benefits encourage this), educated working women do not. Which is a brew for fiscal and societal disaster: see “Idiot Nation”.
2. Allow the “cost” of that tax-deductible carer to be the biological mother if the married couple makes that choice. Many believe, with good reason, that having a mother at home, caring for their children up to aged 12 produces psychologically healthy children. Conversely, having kids whacked into a day-care centre at 8am until 5.30pm from age one onwards for 5 days a week is not good for children’s psychological development. To illustrate: John Doe earns $60,000 per annum and his wife Jane Doe earns $50,000 per annum. When Jane gets pregnant and has a baby, John gets a deduction off his taxable income of, say, $35,000 (what Jane used to bring home after tax) so that the couple’s after tax income remains the same until their last child finishes primary school.
In the West, under present tax regimes, only married couples where the husband earns a very high income can afford to have mothers stay at home and look after children. And with that, there still comes a substantial reduction in family income because tax authorities don’t allow “income splitting” for tax purposes. A husband with a, formerly working but post-childbirth non-working, wife looking after their children should be able to to nominally allocate half his income to his child-caring wife so that he pays a lower tax rate to, partially, compensate the family for the loss of the income that she would have brought in if she had remained working and not had children. Very few potential mothers/mothers are that committed to their careers that they wouldn’t take time out to raise children full time up to age 12 if the family income loss by doing so were not so drastic.
How do Western societies pay for these policies that reduce the income tax revenue in order to encourage educated women to have children and look after their children?
Take a look at the egregious Anjem Choudary of Sharia4UK and his infamous, surreptitiously recorded in his mosque, jibe of five or so years ago about calling “job-seekers allowance”, ie unemployment benefits, “jihad-seekers allowance”. The infidels work like slaves and we don’t, he said, they work to pay us so we don’t have to work. Which in his mind was as it should be, a modern form “jizya”. One would have thought that after that disgusting jibe was published in a major British newspaper, the welfare authorities would have investigated Mr Choudary and said to him “You have a law degree – get a job quick smart or we’ll cut off your welfare payments and evict you from your tax-payer funded housing!” Nothing at all was done: Choudary, his wife and four children continue to live in great comfort at taxpayers’ expense.
There are hundreds of thousands of Choudary families in every country in the West, albeit not all of them led by publicity seeking radical Islamist agitators; probably over a million in France, in the UK and in Germany. Profile welfare recipients with Islamic names, investigate the legitimacy of their deservedness of taxpayer charity and remove them from the welfare rolls. And there you have your tax revenue deficit made good by a reduction in welfare outlays. This would also act as a major disincentive to MENA Muslims immigrating to Europe and other Western countries.
*Of course many of these Muslim men work “under the radar” for cash in shops, restaurants, cafes and driving cabs: not paying taxes on their “black” working incomes whilst also collecting welfare as unemployed or on some bogus disability basis.
Julius, it’s not so simple as financing the kids. If a country (or a planet) is engaged in a population race, nobody wins. Europe is small, and many of the areas are heavily overpopulated. Where is everything going to come from for all these new humans? Fleecing the 3rd world? It’s crazy.
There is something wrong with the mindset that cranks more and more lives for an overburdened planet. Better kill some off — which is what the elites are counting on, IMO. It looks to me like they are setting up a bloody conflict in Europe, with them sitting on the sidelines and betting on the “horses.” Whoever will emerge victorious will be no sissified overcivilized “consumer” without any useful skills.
Just read that they took some very conjoined twins out of Syria for operations in the west. Wouldn’t it be more sane to bring out 100 Syrian kids who have injuries or maladies that are curable and spend the money and care on them?
You also have a good point. But in the current paradigm, population growth of Westerners is the better immediate alternative.
Long-term, slow population decline (Japanese style) is probably the way to go, as it would lead to a saner environment/society.
It’s not possible, however, if it’s not happening everywhere at a similar rate, or at least not without very harsh immigration controls – which aren’t going to happen.
So when the crap comes down and the fighting gets under way, it might be better to have the numbers, bad as it is longer-term.
It would be more sane to bring out 100 Syrian (Christian) kids with curable maladies than spend the money on those conjoined twins. But the medical professional loves edgy, ground-breaking, challenges and bugger the cost when its taxpayers’ money funding it.
I remember that Syrian conjoined twins surgery and how it was feted and celebrated as a fantastic advance. My reaction was: an absurd waste of money! That money could have been spent in, say, Peru savings tens of thousands of kids lives on basic immunizations and cheap treatment for dysentry. BTW Children die in droves in South America from amoebic dysentry (due to bad drinking water) when their lives could be saved with a 40 cent pack of re-hydrolizing salts.
Very good letter, Julius.
I like your mindset, but it seems to me there is a problem right off with the government allocating income, even for so laudable a purpose as improving the population. Once you accept the principle that income comes through the state, you run into the political problem of making decisions. In addition, welfare recipients will game whatever system you establish.
I’ll give one specific. You mentioned giving career credits to women with secondary or tertiary education who are married to a working husband and who choose to stay at home to raise their children. This is all very good. Assuming you can implement anything resembling this system, a very big if, how are you going to handle the loads of Muslim women who will pick up an advanced degree from the University of Phoenix, and thereby claim your stay-at-home, educated mother credit?
You’ll end up having to specifically exclude Muslims and immigrants, and we know how that is going to work out. Trump raised a major controversy by suggesting that visa applicants be screened for acceptance of the US Constitution AS IS!!! Oh, the horror, the horror!!!
I think the only way you’ll have a ghost of a chance, and it’s pretty thin, is to withdraw all government support, subsidies, welfare, and grants. Let the people who make the money keep their money, and let the people who don’t make money find their own way to keep their broods fed and sheltered. As you correctly point out, the system presently puts a heavy penalty on productivity. Given the heavy government hand, working families maintain a style of living by cashing in their child-raising chips. I realize the welfare classes and the liberals will never consent to a withdrawal of government redistribution, but you’ve got a faintly better chance if you don’t energize a racially-conscious portion of the electorate in opposition.
By the way, I have some sympathy with vera, who wants to lower the population density. In fact, the quality of life is directly enhanced by having large open spaces. I think we’d be very well off with impregnable borders and a replacement birth rate for our productive people, plus enough for a war or two. Not that I’m in favor of wars, but you have to be willing to fight to maintain your borders.
The welfare system is a large part of the problem in Europe.
While it would be harsh medicine, eliminating benefits entirely would probably solve their problems within a few years, though it would lead to some degree of short-term civil strife.
1) Some would return to their country of origin.
2) Some would end up in jail.
3) Most would start looking for work, and have to make some compromises in the process that would make them less prone to radicalisation.
Ronald
1. I don’t want the government giving money to anybody: my prescriptions were about taxing people, ie reconfiguring the systems where government takes money from people who have earned it.
2. I didn’t want to state it, but I would specifically exclude Muslims from any of these taxation benefits. But that’s just between you and me, okay? Don’t tell anybody else. Even the Baron or Dymphna. In the same vein, there aren’t going to be that many Muslim women getting advanced degrees from the University of Phoenix because the effects of generations of consanguineous marriage on the Muslim gene pool mean they aren’t very bright on average. The ones that are, with strong personalities, leave Islam: Hirsi Ali, Sultan, et al.
You don’t have to be at all bright to get an advanced degree in most Western universities; you just have to be brown, or other-gendered. And Muslims are especially favored nowadays.
Your degree won’t be in mathematics or physics, mind you. That’s why they’ve set up all these Gender Studies departments and whatnot, so that favored students can major in Deconstructing Whiteness and similar disciplines that contribute to the advancement of a Just Society.
Even math and physics are hearing the distant thrum of Social Justice chainsaws. They are disproportionately non-Brown (and actually disproportionately Yellow, if truth be known), so they are obviously bastions of institutional racism. The SJWs are determined that all of that must change, so that outcomes become more “inclusive”.
My dad used to say that they should “get rid of every department with the word ‘studies’ in it”.
How right.
A friend of mine in university used to show up to “feminist” classes during course selection period “to consider them as electives”. Then he’d ask all sorts of irritating questions and make all sorts of unpleasant (to them) comments. We all used to laugh. Nowadays, he’d probably get arrested.
I largely agree, though I might tweak some of the details.
1) I have no objection to men getting the benefits, if they are the home-care parent. It’s rare, but there’s no reason to be against it.
2) I would consider making the tax incentives even more significant, but skewed towards the upper-income ones. For example, what if everyone who takes parental leave to care for a child then had a lifetime 5% lopped off their tax bill. Forever. Having 5 kids wouldn’t look like such a career-killer any more, unless you’re in a low income-tax bracket…
3) Lee Kwan Yue by now looks like a genius. I used to think that he was an authoritarian. To some degree he was. But it pales in comparison to what he achieved, and the problems that he avoided.
4) I would seriously consider disallowing those receiving public assistance for reasons other than disability to be deprived of their right to vote. Even more importantly, I would disallow all government workers earning more than the societal average wage (i.e., I have no desire to deprive janitors of their vote because they happen to work for government), as well. Not doing so creates a voting bloc of those eating at the public trough, and it really becomes a serious problem. In Ontario, for example, this might well be the swing vote keeping the Big Government parties in power.
Ah… life would be so much nicer if I were dictator :-).
Julius, you’d be Minister of Families.
Mike,
I totally agree with your general principles, but I still think you’re going to run into trouble with government engineering of desirable population characteristics. Recall that Lee Kwan Yue was leader of a relatively racially homogeneous society, and so government engineering made more sense.
In the US you’re going to have to bite the bullet at some point and deal directly with different racial and religious groups. For example, when dissatisfaction with public schools leads to the charter movement, you get…chartered, Muslim jihad schools. I remember seeing a figure that Muslims in the US (as of a few years ago anyway) had a higher income on average than non-Muslims. Of course, that was on the tail end of the period in which there was actually some screening and selection criteria for immigrants. But, again, pegging your government support just on income is going to give you unintended consequences.
I really like your idea of withdrawing the franchise for parasite classes. In addition to welfare recipients and government clock-punchers, you could withhold the franchise permanently for certain questionable groups of people: questionable immigrants, or even Muslims as Muslims comes to mind.
You might be right. I would prefer to avoid doing it your way, but if all else fails, it would be better than the current mess.
Singapore isn’t that homogenous. The government keeps the population proportions stable by selective immigration. The USA could presumably do the same thing by encouraging (native) European immigration once some European countries become failed states.
I guess the way I look at it is that to me, it’s about *culture*, not *race*. I realise that there’s often a high degree of correlation, but I do want to make it clear that when I have a problem with a “group”, it’s because of culture, not race. And even there, it’s about *incompatible* cultures. The Indian family across the street brings me nothing but joy. Same with the Japanese dude a few houses over. I’d be quite supportive if they wanted to bring their relatives over. They’d be a part of the solution, and not a part of the problem, which lies elsewhere, as we well know.
Mike.
Job offer accepted.
In my teens in the 70’s, I used to think my stepfather was a right-wing nut because he thought Lee Kwan Yew was the best political leader in the world, when everyone around me was damning him for his authoritarian harsh laws on public spitting (which historically has helped spread TB), compulsory military conscription and hanging heroin traffickers.
In the early 80’s I befriended a hip young Malaysian Chinese who stunned me by extolling the virtues of Lee Kwan Yew. And , just like my step-father, opined that benevolent dictatorship was the best form of government.
By 30 years of age I agreed with almost all of it. Look at Singapore now! In GDP per capita it has long surpassed Australia and New Zealand and proceeds apace. With no natural resources and it has to import its drinking water. There is no corruption to speak of. If Singapore were to just take over Malaysia, the people of the latter country (apart from the Islamic clerics) would be eternally grateful.
I used to have similar discussions with a friend’s father. I now see his wisdom as well.
LKY belongs in the category of 90% good. If you pick the 10% (or 5%, or whatever it is) bad, you can spend a long time making fun of him. But looking back on it and seeing what has happened with the West, he seems like he was dead on.
I would venture that he may well have been the most influential person of the latter half of the 20th century, when you consider how his ideas essentially reformed China into a capitalist society.
To answer the title question: YES, quite some time ago!
Your average village idiot has been accurately forecasting the Mohammedance craze for hundreds of years now. Certainly since the wipe out of the Christians populations of North Africa and more recently Constantinople and around. Another example of more is less? The future is looking good for local village idiots.
The future belongs to those who bother to show up for it. If your mother did not have you, you have no future. If you have no children, they will not appear in the future.
The Telegraph articles by Adrian Michaels are linked from this (critical) page:
http://powerbase.info/index.php/Adrian_Michaels
The article by Stephen Green is:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/07/the-politics-of-national-identity-long-taboo-are-on-the-rise-in/
Given the goals of the Coudenhove-Kalergi agenda and its related Charlemagne Prize, one loses any doubt these statistics existed and were plotted for long ago.
I would like to see answers to the following from random Europeans. Being here today, you won the lottery. You and those you descended from survived until now. Millions maybe billions did not. Do you feel nothing that your branch will die out? You were destined to be a dead end for human life.
As a first generation American child of refugees, I often contemplate my good fortune – be it from good luck or good instincts, it’s not something I take for granted. Yet, I cannot help but wonder how my parent(s) and siblings commiserate with the current interpretation of ‘refugee’ which is not even remotely resembling what they experienced . I chalk it up to unionized brainwashing – an effort I was not directly subjected to.
First of all this is not coming to most Europeans as a sudden and violent crisis.
Its like cooking a lobster with the temperature very slowly rising.
You dont notice for a long time that there is trouble ahead.
I mean compare it fe. with the global financial crisis, that started with foul property loans in the US.
I presume a few lucid people had warned for years, but most “experts” and politicians didnt wanted to listen to bad news (just individual opinions anyway), and the broad public had no reason to become uneasy – until it was to late.
Then of course what can we do?
Protests? We have them – mainly in Germany.
New political parties? They are allready existing (AfD in Germany, Wilders in the Netherlands, the same goes for Britain, France etc.)
But political developments take time – often many years.
And things are developing very, very fast for the worse.
Faster then normal citizens without influence and power (other then for voting every 4-5 years) can react.
And we have tough opponents.
In the EU, the MSM, the UN, NGO`s…
They all have more money, are better organized and sometimes even are directly benefiting from the recent developments.
And some, as the EU-Commission or the UN even had planned and worked for mass-migration into Europe allready years ago (mostly arguing with demographic shift and aging population).
And last but not last, dont forget, the US-Government has also its interests and role in this matter.
Without the lobbying and pressure of the Clinton administration the EU fe. would have never had begun talks with Turkey about becoming a member of the EU.
Also many development fit into the strategy that Brzezinski and others had outlined as the future geostrategy for the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Chessboard
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Strategic_and_International_Studies
Another reason for things happening you will find in the huge influence that countries like Saudi Arabia, VAE or Qatar have in the US and in Europe.
Often using former high ranking politicians as Lobbyists or just investing in the West in times a economic weakness (Italy, France, Spain, the UK).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albright_Stonebridge_Group
And then you have organisations like the Bilderberger Group, Trilateral Commission, European Round Table etc. always working behind closed doors.
Better dont belive that fe. as an average US citizen you have fewer reason to be worried. Just like the situation is different in every european country it`s also different for you, but dangerous never the less in the long run.
This fight is just beginning, and it may take Generations.
Just like it did in the past, when Islam allready reached out for Europe and was beaten back sometimes only after decades or even centuries.
The seeming inexorable nature of the demographic changes in Europe leads me to wonder if the native Europeans will continue to party on while the train hurtles toward the cliff. I think there is a stirring of consciousness of heritage, the beginnings of one, with movements like Pegida and others. If the common man is sufficiently incentivized there can be a correction in course. It must be accepted that such a correction will be most unpleasant in execution. Europe has a history of bloody business and its people still have that capacity somewhere in them.
There will not be a peaceful solution. Alas.
Yes, the native European continue to party. I see my children, high qualified, good jobs, kids. They don,t want to see. I know and I cry in my heart for my grandchildern, because nobody will protect them. It’s already to late, for sure in Belgium.
The don’t want to see it, but they do, perhaps only out of the corner of their eye. Many choose to ignore the obvious because a full acknowledgement of what is at stake offers up terrible choices they don’t want to have to make.
But with the stakes this high, patriots must keep pointing out the obvious and exposing the manipulations and lies of the political and media elite to friends and relatives regardless of any hurt feelings. We won’t get through to everyone, but it will shake some out of their virtual reality and open their eyes to the real-world threat all about them.
I see it as a major problem that economies and nations have gotten so big and government so wealthy and complex, there is literally no accountability to an electorate. Literally, nobody understands what the hell the government bureaucrats are doing. The video giving the reasons for Brexit made that point very clearly and cogently.
An unaccountable leadership is a corruptible leadership. It’s a very effective use of money to invest a few hundred million or billion in nurturing a lifelong habit for potential politicians of spending beyond their ability to actually earn money. Most of the leadership is thoroughly bought by malevolent interests with oceans of money, and the mechanisms of government and a civil society are then used directly against the population.
The US government is moving to put control of the internet into “global” hands. If Hillary is elected, I wouldn’t be surprised that in 4 years, a Trump run for the Presidency will be impossible, not simply because of demographics, but because the internet will be too censored to support an organized movement of dissatisfaction. Trump is a very savvy, very effective user of the internet for communication.
All countries “infected” with Islam will convert sooner or later because of the demographic changes. No matter if the UK exited the EU, if nothing drastic happening, the Muslims will be the majority by 2050-2060. France, Sweden, Netherland, Germany follows. Next comes Canada and USA. Yes right now the treacherous governments doing something (as little as possible) to ban burqas and other non-significant and symbolic decisions which seemingly pushes back to Islam, but in reality just make them less visible and sets their schedule a bit back. Then a next generation grows up and for them it will be natural to see woman beaten and raped on the streets. Just part of life… Let’s not forget, the cancerous tumor we call Islam have had a 1400 years of history. Another 30-50 or even 100 years does not matter to them in their expansions.
re:
Just as current generations were desensitized to the rapid spread of Islam
as revealed in this quote from another Gates of Vienna thread:
You got it!
Banning burqas and burqinis actually makes it worse: it prevents people from *seeing* the problem, and means that the solution (if there is to be one) doesn’t happen as quickly.
Remember that Europe has pushed back Islamic expansion before, in the nick of time. Martel, Sobieski, etc. This time will be different if it happens, because it won’t be a border phenomena. It will be an ugly civil war. Very, very ugly. Think Lebanese Civil War, but on a much larger scale. With a result as-yet unknown.
But I’m sure that eventually there will be fighting.
I think the problem with allowing burqas and burquinis and whatever is that it allows the Muslims to claim part of the public domain as their own. It gives them a sense of empowerment, while de-moralizing our people.
I prefer to assert our cultural prerogatives early and often: you will not wear face-covering or body covering bags in public, you will not wear inappropriate attire on the beach. It’s an assertion of power and identity: either we display our power and identity or the Muslims display theirs. I prefer ours.
I see your point, though I also still see mine, about “hiding” the problem not making it go away.
The Lebanese Civil War is the perfect analogy for the future of Europe. And the funny thing is 90% of non-Muslims don’t have a clue that it is looming.
Those of the ilk of Nick Lowles of “Hope, Not Hate” are going to have their heads blown away. Literally. By the very people they dedicate their lives to defending and protecting. The irony is sublime.
“Queers Against Israeli Apartheid” (not happily defunct) is the group that always got my goat in this respect. They should have paraded with *that* banner in Gaza. LOL.
The lefties will be “shocked and appalled” (or “shocked and impaled”?) when it comes down to their level. As it will.
Hi Mike,
I can’t resist a last comment.
I don’t think so. The overriding passion for the leftist is to smash and change his home, culture and society. Everything else is a tool.
So, you think the leftists will change their philosophy just because it results in their personal enslavement or beheading. It’s nice to think so: that in the execution cell, the leftist will think “what a fool I was!! I was completely mistaken.”
I think the reality is that the leftist will continue to hold to his hatred, rage and destructive passion. He thinks his oppressors have gotten the details wrong, but they are still on the right side.
Think of the old bolshevik in Arthur Koestler’s Darkness at Noon. Completely dedicated to the revolution, he is imprisoned and accused of treason on totally trumped-up charges. The real reason for his imprisonment is the new leader wants to clear out all the original revolutionaries who do not owe personal loyalty to himself.
Anyway, when the trumped-up case falls apart logically, the prosecutor, who is himself too close to the old way of thinking, is executed and replaced by a young functionary who could care less about the actual details. He understands it is the narrative, rather than the truth, that counts.
In the end, the old Bolshevik accepts the narrative over the truth, and confesses to crimes which were impossible for him to commit. He accepts the importance of the revolution over the truth and indeed, over his own survival.
So, if you look to repentance by leftists as your ultimate validation, you will be sorely disappointed at the end.
Here’s the link to the book:
Darkness at Noon
Even if you can’t buy the book – some versions are available for $2.50, and I’m sure the same is true for Amazon.UK – do read the top reviews and the bottom feeders; in the latter case, the one-star reviews plus the comments attached to those reviews. My favorite review title : “CIA Propaganda” – even though the book was written long before the CIA existed. Hopeful sign? Someone had been assigned the book for an AP History class. There is hope for American high school education yet.
BTW, in the Amazon Review sections on any product, it is always interesting to notice which of them are marked Verified Purchase. I learned this as I followed the bloody war in Diana West’s book’s comments. Few, if any, of the one-star diatribes were based on a purchase. They were just sock-puppets who’d sided with David Horowitz & Co in that failed takedown of Diana’s book. It is probably the case that the ugly attacks actually boosted sales of the book.
American Betrayal: The Secret Assault on Our Nation’s Character
Just read the one-star “reviews”… even after all this time, they remain an interesting phenomenon in American political divides…
https://www.amazon.com/American-Betrayal-Assault-Nations-Character-ebook/product-reviews/B008BU71BM/ref=cm_cr_dp_qt_hist_one?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&showViewpoints=0
Pssst…
The book’s long out of copyright and Koestler has gone to his reward, so this version is legal:
https://libcom.org/files/%5BArthur_Koestler%5D_Darkness_at_Noon.pdf
The Left as usual is to blame. Honestly, they never can muster the energy to quit their revolutionizing ways. The frisson they get from treachery so enlivens their dull lives the thought that perhaps the bell also tolls for them cannot be entertained.
With the collapse of the colossus to the East the only foreign expansion worth undermining their homelands for is Islam. More than anything else, Islam offers its adherents the ability to scream hate forcefully in unison, about – and this is critical – things that matter. No, not who kicked the ball into the net, but about who is going to control the future. This fundamental solidarity is the object of the Left’s lust. The fact that with that lust satisfied they can simultaneously rub dirt into the eyes of ” class enemies ” makes the marriage with Islam one made in heaven.
All of the trouble experienced by Europeans now and into the doom-laden future is self-inflicted. Apparently they have chosen they would rather be replaced and forever disinherited, rather than simply exterminate the Leftists. What Europe needs to survive is the politics of anti- Communism, such as the Indonesians had a few decades ago.
What Europe needs to survive is the politics of anti- Communism, such as the Indonesians had a few decades ago.
Anti-communist? Really?
I remember reading about the massacres in Indonesia in a now defunct news magazine – The Bulletin – which had several mutually contradictory articles on the topic. In the same issue, one article plugged the cause as being “anti-communist” and the other article, after pointing out that a high proportion of the massacred were Chinese, plugged the cause as being “anti wealth”. The Chinese community in Indonesia, apart from being mainly Buddhist, was, as a group, much wealthier than the Indonesian Muslim majority and according to this lying filth Bulletin reporter the cause was simply envy.
Eventually, the mainstream press in Australia and elsewhere went all out for the anti-communist theme. I found this to be implausible and contradictory at that time but on the information provided I couldn’t work things out in a manner that made any kind of sense.
Many years later, with the benefit of hindsight, I eventually concluded that the most likely primary cause was simply a desire by Indonesian Muslims to massacre infidels. Both Buddhists and atheistic anti-communists filled the bill admirably. However, the motivation to wage jihad for the purpose of killing infidels was completely absent from all of the news media reports of the time and in the pre internet days it was very hard to get a handle on what was really going on anywhere.
You are partially right, partially wrong; just like Ahem. Anti communist is good as long as (1) you play it well with communist nations like China and Russia, and (2) you can resist Moslems and Islamization. I am Indonesian, I know somewhat about 1965-1966 tragedy and the fall of Sukarno. Current regime in Indonesia suffices condition 1, but not condition 2 of course. Western nations need to be anti communist. Sorry I use fake e-mail starting from now for my safety.
Thanks for your courage in writing.
I’m not sure what your disagreement with Ahem is, as he simply asserts that the Indonesian Muslims killed non-Muslims simply because they could. Do you agree or disagree with that?
By the way, I assume Ahem has seen “The Year of Living Dangerously”. His hypothesis provides an insight into the film and its treatment of Indonesia.
Mark leo says we should take a page book from the Indonesian military cum Muslims, but ourselves slaughter the leftists who make common cause with Muslims. Do you agree or disagree with that?
Hi Ronald,
My disagreement with Ahem is toward his doubt that anti communist is a recipe. It is a recipe. Thanks to that, Marxists have a hard time to grow in Indonesia.
I’ve seen ‘The Years of Living Dangerously’, but sorry I largely forget it. The film is so bad because making it in Vietnam did not mimic Indonesia closely. Yet let me tell you one thing Ahem is right.
He’s right in terms of “the most likely primary cause was simply a desire by Indonesian Muslims to massacre infidels.” General Suharto knew that desire. By hook or by crook made moslems organizations (mainly NU, Nahdlatul Ulama) kill infidels, chinese and non-chinese. The non chinese victims were much greater than the chinese. The difference is many chinese can afford to go out of Indonesia due to their wealth and perseverance, while many non chinese cannot.
Sorry I don’t understand your last paragraph. What I can concur is that in the 1960s some moslems joined the communist party without being communist. Many of those moslems were slaughtered by their moslems brethren. That’s what I know.
USA is somewhat to blame in a period where the communism rose in Indonesia. USA President – I forgot who was – humiliated Sukarno (Indonesia President). Sukarno was furious. Yes he was asking for fund, but a president will not take humiliation for granted.
Sukarno then turned to Soviet. The Soviet granted money, technology, and scholarships/opportunity for higher education. In return, Sukarno praised the communism. Sukarno also made friend with China. Thus the axis of Jakarta Moscow Beijing (Peking).
Later, USA through CIA toppled Sukarno, replaced him with Suharto. USA business grew again. Yet whether it was Sukarno or Suharto, I think moslems won. Sukarno was brave enough to ‘request’ (or perhaps demand) Soviet to build a great mosque in Moscow. Voila, he got it. For some time, Indonesia moslems also benefited from the higher education they acquired in Eastern Europe, and regarded it as a gift from Allah. Similarly, when USA allied with Indonesia, many moslems enjoyed higher education in North American, while still have America.
I hope you get the moral of the story.
I read this with a great deal of concern, and yet with a certain sense of schadenfreude.
You see, I am a Jew. Yes. A Jew. The Jew whom Europeans, east and west, tried to murder, systematically. The Germans were simply the best at organized murder. The Poles, Letts, Estonians, Latvians tried. The English tried..a long time ago. And so forth.
I’m that Jew whom European Christians have hated for 1500+ years.
The Jew who the Moslems are taught to hate.
You know, we Jews have a saying … the European hate of Jews is in the mother’s milk. It is a visceral response to us Jews, this hate. We are, in the words of our English friends, a sh*tty little country.
With our wonderful friends, the Europeans, who have deprived us of our families who are ashes … with these friends facing the possibility of going extinct…how should I, the damned Jew, feel?
Please help me understand how I get over feeling that the Islamization of Europe is simply G-d’s revenge on a continent drenched in the blood of my people.
I am a Hungarian and my nation also suffered from the storms of history. It taught me something you might want to consider too:
I do not blame the Germans for the Nazis.
I do not blame the Russians for the Communists.
I do not blame the Jewish people for the banker families and Zionists.
I do not blame the countries who who left us alone to fight the Muslims for 150 years, who took 2/3 of Hungary’s territory after the first world war, who left us alone again to fight the Soviets in 1956.
History were not kind to anyone, but if we not let old wounds heal we will never progress. I am a geek and a dreamer and I believe in a common future (Star Trek)
Once you can separate the peoples and nations from ideologies then you might be able to see the world as it is and not to look for “God’s revenge”. Who would be responsible for a man like George Soros? He was born in Hungary and he is Jewish. But he helped the Nazis and picked out other Jews from their lineups and later even told a reporter those were his happiest days…
Who is responsible for this man? The Hungarians or the Jews? I think only George Soros is responsible for George Soros (and that applies to many others whom now betraying their own peoples).
I wish you to find peace in your heart!
On 20th of August my country celebrates its Birthday. Times like this nobody knows how the next year will be celebrated… Let me finish this with a translation of our National Anthem and a video.
O God, bless the nation of Hungary
With your grace and bounty
Extend over it your guarding arm
During strife with its enemies
Long torn by ill fate
Bring upon it a time of relief
This nation has suffered for all sins
Of the past and of the future!
https://youtu.be/M_1XePK1DAk
Well said – with respect from Austria! 😉
“I do not blame the Jewish people for the banker families and Zionists.”
Umm, pardon me, but what precisely is wrong with “Zionists”?
For that matter, what is wrong with “banker families”?
This Jew likes what you say!
other than the bit about “banker families and Zionists”, of course.
Because really, that’s just anti-semitic junk. But I think that you put it in without thinking. Because the rest of your post is really quite nice.
Thr Europeans have chosen secular humanism and rejected the Creator’s way, truth and life (Torah). So they suffer the consequences of living a godless life, they do not realize that European Civilization is solely a result of Judeo-Christianity and a Toraic value system.
In destroying Judeo-Christianity one loses the cohesiveness society, and man, in his own knowledge of good and evil (Tov and Ra) has not yet managed to find a viable alternative.
Protestant Christianity brought relative peace to Jews, indeed, they are the major supporters of ‘Hope for Sderot’ (see above). Those who, in modern times, persecute Jews also persecute real Christians.
I do not think what is happening in Europe is God’s vengeance, I think it is just the folly of men who reject God’s ways and reap the horrific consequences. European Democratic Christian civilization is an aberration in a normalcy of man made cruelty and tyranny, take the Creator out of the equation and the result is always zero.
I am not a Jew. I am not a European. I am familiar with Schadenfreude. Alas, in this case it is entirely useless as well as irrational and, ultimately, self-harming.
Do you think Europe is going away? Do you think Europe is going to turn into a depopulated oasis of peace and love?
In Christian Europe the Jews had [notice the past tense] a nominal ally and – theoretically – a protector. European Jewry was an integral part of European culture, trade and art – contributing to the good of all far out of proportion to its numbers. Hatred-of-Jews [I find “anti-Semitism” an imprecise term.] has no place in Christianity. Any claim to the contrary is rooted in sheer ignorance or dishonesty, and rationalization of hatred-of-Jews should definitely be filed under heresy.
Of course, the evidence shows that there has been no shortage of hatred-of-Jews in nominally Christian societies. The cause has not been Christianity. The cause has been deviation from . . . and ignorance of Christianity – springing from human vices like greed, envy and lust for power. Humans are weak. We are sinners.
Do you really expect that the eradication of Christianity and Christian culture is going to make this world a better, safer place for Jews? . . . especially when it is now likely to be replaced by an insane socio-political creed that has hatred-of-Jews, nay, MURDER-of Jews as one of its basic objectives – as recorded in the self-referencing, “infallible” text of its deity, Allah.
Beware of what you wish for. Beware that your little guilty satisfactions at the misfortune of others do not turn you into a mere spectator, instead of going to the aid of the distressed who may eventually be able to help you when misfortune comes knocking on your door, as it will.
Only you can find a way to get over your feelings – really belief – that events in Europe is divine revenge. I cannot begin to contemplate the motives and sentiments of the creator of all and eternity, let alone project my own sinful prejudices and desires onto Him. He may have given you the opportunity to forgive those who have trespassed against you . . . I am not sure. Try in anyway, and see if it helps you feelings.
Finally: Be an individual. Don’t be a cog in a collective. That is how you should be judged, and how you should judge yourself.
It sure feels that way, and all of my Jewish ancestors left the blighted European continent before WWI (not WWII, even). I can’t think of a better move anyone ever made.
So yes, to an extent, this is Europe’s self-created mess, their punishment for hating Jews. Political correctness does seem to have its origin in the ashes of WWII, and to a good part of the cause of the current mess, along with Islamism.
But resist the temptation to view it without concern (or even with glee?), because if Europe does fall to Islam, it will be even worse for Jews. Consider that some of these European countries have nuclear weapons, if nothing else makes you concerned. The Islamic world has been no haven for Jews either, despite what some would have us believe.
There’s a very simple answer to the problem of unsolvable anti-semitism, be it European or Islamic. Jews have their own country now and that’s the ultimate guarantee that it won’t happen again. Sadly, and I do emphasize the *sadly*, many European peoples are on their way to no longer having this luxury for themselves, if they don’t wake up really soon.
Hi HRM.
I totally agree with you the Jew is facing extinction.
But, perhaps it’s time to let the past fade into the smoke, and optimize the present and future. In my opinion, the uses to which the memory of the Holocaust are put are dysfunctional to the survival of Jews today.
Probably, the most effective thing the Jewish community could do to assure its own survival is to oppose the immigration of Muslims as Muslims. It would be a very powerful, and effective, message for the Jewish community to align itself with the nationalist alt-right and with the America First Trump in support of controlled immigration and strong borders.
Right now, you have the opposite effect. Institutions devoted to remembering the Holocaust are actively working to encourage sympathy for immigration and to oppose any view of Islam that characterizes Islam as a malevolent, intolerant and aggressive religion/political system. The organized Jewish defense of Islam and immigration is an immediate threat to the US Jewish community. Forget the past. Forget the guilt. Forget god’s punishment. The Jewish community is literally shooting itself in the foot.
Here’s what’s happening in France:
We can look forward to the same in the US if we continue massive Muslim immigration.
So, you can wallow in anger at Holocaust memories, or you can mobilize to protect what is now the most secure place in the world for the physical security of Jews.
European Jews are facing extinction.
Elsewhere is different.
Many Jews are stupid for not realising that the right, even the nationalist right, is a much better bet for them in Europe now than knee-jerking to the left because of the nice platitudes that lefties have said in the past. But people learn slowly.
“Please help me understand how I get over feeling that the Islamization of Europe is simply G-d’s revenge on a continent drenched in the blood of my people.”
An Islamified Europe would almost certainly mean the utter destruction of Israel- so I would get over your schadenfreude and start thinking clearly.
Exactly. I often point out that an Islamic Republic of France, armed with nuclear weapons, is Israel’s worst nightmare. So the schadenfreude should stop, and energy be spent on figuring out a solution, if one can be found.
When the armies and weaponry of Europe (USA too?)are controlled by the muslims, how long before they lunge at Israel? Then, only Christ will be able to rescue you.
Karoly Lorant wrote: “..some American security studies were already discussing how the United States’ Middle East policies will be affected when its traditional allied countries have significant Muslim populations.”
Intriguing and could help explain some of the bizarrely disconnected from reality responses by pols in both EU and US, if these security studies were actually done.
One thing that never seems to be mentioned in articles like this is Richard Bulliet’s study of conversion to Islam in medieval societies conquered by the Muslims. Bulliet has shown that while conversion proceeds slowly at first, it accelerates as the population density of Muslims increases, as this also augments the social pressure to convert.
Random Postings notes that ‘The slope of the graph [displaying the proportion of Muslims in a country’s population] starts slowly when conversion was rare and most converts were slaves or social outcasts, although some members of the upper class, who having the most possessions to lose, sought to secure their wealth by ingratiating themselves to the new rulers.[12] As time progressed and Islam became a more familiar and accepted mode of life the rate of conversion increased peaking in the 9th century. The sharply accelerating slope of the curve is due to the contagion effect; as the number of Muslims in a population increases, the probability of interaction with non-Muslims correspondingly increases the likelihood of conversion. Bulliet refers to this tendency as “social conversion,” a conversion based on level of exposure and personal motivation rather than an acceptance of theological arguments.’
http://randompostings-vaevictu.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/curve-of-conversion.html
All the countries which Bulliet studied conformed to the same pattern. (Of course, hardly anyone converted in the opposite direction). It is not hard to discern the worrying with the process of Islamization in modern Western societies. Although it seems implausible that Muslims should simply outbreed the indigenous population, the Bulliet curve suggests that the Islamization of the West may come even faster than many visitors to this site imagine (particularly since indigenous religions are much weaker than in the medieval Near East). Military conquest was indeed the first step to Islamization in the past, but Muslims today in the West have already secured many things which in the past would have been possible only through military conquest: they insist on the freedom to preach and propagate their own religion, and ahve largely succeeded in silencing any opposition to it.
They are planning to overtake Europe since decades now.
Just one example.
Prof. M. Ali Kettani, “Muslim Communities in Non-Muslim States“, Islamic Council of Europe, London, 1980
Quote:
When Muslims live as a minority they face theological problems, because classical Islamic teaching always presupposed a context of Islamic dominance; hence the need for guidance on how to live in non-Muslim states.
The instructions given in the book told Muslims to get together and organise themselves with the aim of establishing a viable Muslim community based on Islamic principles.
This is the duty of every individual Muslim living within a non-Muslim political entity. They should set up mosques, community centres and Islamic schools.
At all costs they must avoid being assimilated by the majority. In order to resist assimilation, they must group themselves geographically, forming areas of high Muslim concentration within the population as a whole.
Yet they must also interact with non-Muslims so as to share the message of Islam with them.
Every Muslim individual is required to participate in the plan; it is not allowed for anyone simply to live as a “good Muslim” without assisting the overall strategy.
The ultimate goal of this strategy is that the Muslims should become a majority and the entire nation be governed according to Islam. (M. Ali Kettani “The Problems of Muslim Minorities and their Solutions” in Muslim Communities in Non-Muslim States (London: Islamic Council of Europe, 1980) pp.96-105)
And this Islamic Council of Europe in London is a Saudi organisation that is even accredited at the UN as a human rights-NGO.
It shares the same address with an Islamic Banking Institute
http://www.islamic-banking.com/
The Website of course has changed since I stumbled over this some years ago.
Addendum:
https://berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/organizations/islamic-council-of-europe
One word – already familiar to most readers here:
TAQIYA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya
I simply trim it down to the essence: Muslims lie, and they will always be liars. There is no middle ground.
And those inconsiderate greedy non-moslems manipulative and exploitive liars who tried to force us innocent nonbelievers to support their vile expansionist Islamic agenda is also to be blamed.
In certain part of South East Asia, for example, most types of banking accounts are Islamic or rather reserved for their kind while us nonbelievers are left with either no choice or limited choice, if we were to do any banking transaction. It is really frightening to see their spread of totalitarian Islam in banking, food, education, etc in a so called multicultural country in South East Asia. Scary! They even have their Islamic banks everywhere but it is not enough for them – they are spreading their Islam to even international banks such as Standard Chartered, HSBC and CITIbank in (e.g a socalled multicultural country in South East Asia.
Someone should put a stop to their nonsense before we nonbelievers end up with more Islamic nonsense.