Our Dutch correspondent H. Numan sends this report on the latest cultural enrichment news from The Netherlands, especially as it concerns public swimming pools.
Reality is showing its ugly face
by H. Numan
Let’s start in the past. When I was a young man, the first cohort of young ‘Dutch’ muslims was growing up in The Netherlands. They were mainly Turkish boys, at that time much more of a problem than Moroccans. Public swimming pools were becoming unsafe for girls, because those muslim boys grabbed them where they shouldn’t. What was done? Why, nothing, of course! Pretty soon after that Moroccans proudly carried the banner of being the most unruly, violent community. Muslims started to realize they could gain political power — for themselves. Pim Fortuyn was murdered and Geert Wilders appeared on the scene.
We had a minister of justice, Piet Hein Donner. He said — or more accurately, lied: “If 75% of the Dutch population wants shariah law, then there is nothing to stop democracy from becoming a shariah society”. Let’s start here. The Dutch population has absolutely no say in it. It’s parliament (Second Kamer or congress and the First Kamer or senate) who decide that. Yes, I’ll grant him that this is next to impossible.
Legally, shariah must be presented as a law. Both houses have to vote on it, and pass it with a 75% majority. After that the government and both chambers resign and new elections are called. The next government will bring the law again in motion. Only if again 75% of both chambers vote ‘aye’ is shariah law valid in The Netherlands. Next to impossible, in other words. If you were do it the democratic way, that is.
Now, how democratic our bearded fiends are? Not at all. It’s a blasphemous concept to them. Erdogan himself said openly ‘democracy is the train we take towards shariah’. How difficult is it to put serious pressure on 150 members of parliament and 75 senators? Their family members? Friends and relatives? Or their party superiors? We as a nation simply haven’t got that many police available for their protection. That’s the first attempt. They won’t rest if the vote were to be ‘no’. That means another round of voting and violence. We have to protect the new MPs and senators and their families and their friends and their party officials as well.
May I remind you of 1572, the start of the Dutch revolt? It started with a bang, with the Beeldenstorm or Great Iconoclasm. Catholic churches were ransacked, and craven idols removed. At that time about 65% of the population was Roman Catholic. Of the remainder, the vast majority were Lutheran. Only 7% were Calvinists. Both Roman Catholic and Lutheran Dutch were open for negations with the king of Spain (Phillip II).
Now, the king was somewhat inflexible. For him, either you were catholic or you were barbecued. No other options. But compromises are usually possible, even with one party being inflexible. It was the 7% Calvinists who started the open revolt, and later gained control of the country. That was with 7% extremists in our population. Currently the inflexibles are at least 9%.
Calvinists aren’t exactly the first thing on your mind when thinking about extremely violent religious zealots. They have mellowed somewhat over the ages. The same goes for Christianity in general: even the Westboro Baptists are well behaved choirboys compared with the average muslim. In the 16th century, however, they were the Al Quackies of the age.
Which brings us to the news from today. The Dutch news is full with stories of young muslim boys raping girls in swimming pools, preferably the ‘tropical swimming resorts’. Not fondling. Not ogling, but raping. Young is relative here. We’re talking about gangs of boys of all ages, up to and including adults.
What’s being done about it? Why, nothing of course! Do remember we’re not talking about a few juveniles feeling their oats. Putting your hand inside the vagina or the sphincter is considered full blown rape. The swimming pools hire extra security guards (who nowadays are mostly muslims…); they register every client and ‘ban’ misbehaving clients. Oh yes, in severe cases they even send a strongly-worded letter to the parents! For a crime that carries a penalty of eight years in prison.
It was pretty bad in Terneuzen. Staff are being threatened and harassed. Girls abused and outright raped. It was so bad the police had to intervene, and arrested five of the youngsters. Don’t worry; they were all released.
Terneuzen has a PvdA (labor) burgomaster, or should I say burkamaster? This quisling-in-charge called Geert Wilders personally and told him he is not welcome in Terneuzen. Wilders wanted to visit the city to encourage the citizens there. No, said quisling Lonink. Those juveniles are not the problem. Wilders is the problem. Wilders sows hatred, therefore he is not welcome.
Wrong. Wilders doesn’t sow hatred. Quisling Lonink does. By supporting people who should be serving jail terms of four to eight years each. Wilders, little as he likes it, is reaping the sour fruits of that hatred.
— H. Numan
Wilders has a nice illustration on this subject.
The left thrives by fostering selfishness and stupidity, and one of their key slanders is this stuff about ‘phobias’. It is not ‘phobic’ to think about dangers and plan wisely to avoid hazards – facing fears is the way to overcome them.
What we have is Cowardly trash leaders who refuse to admit that there is anything to fear – they hide their stupid heads in the sand, refuse to resist criminal scum and terrorists and accuse those who would face up to the fears of being ‘phobic’.
The left has spent decades indoctrinating the children and damaging the languages so that they can stupidify every discussion and pervert every govt function into poison for society, and then hard-sell their stupid cure: totalitarian govt run by an oligarchy of psychopaths and self serving bureaucrats.
Fight or be exterminated. Surely the native Europeans in the police and armed forces see it? Thus, military coup and civil war or European extermination. A grim choice.
I’ll take the bet that the militaries of western Europe one way or another will be forced to intervene and take over from our weak, feckless traitors we now have in power. Then the Great Purge will commence with a vengeance. The sooner this happens, the sooner we can get on with rebuilding western civilization.
I once thought of the Netherlands as a very sensible country. Years ago. Clearly I did not know it well.
So, how do we compare extremist calvinists, who destroyed catholic propaganda statues, to extremist muslim migrants, who rape girls at swimming pools?
Not to mention the fact that back in the day you were either catholic or you were barbecued?
Because in the core both have anger in their hearts against the others .
One wonders whether not just the Netherlands but all of Europe is being engulfed in this thorougly duplicitous attitude to what is a real major problem, that will inevitably destroy Europe and its peoples who follow or try to follow a Christian culture. Islam cannot be defeated unless its followers of the teachings are cleared from Europe-impossible I hear you say, and that is how it looks just now-however a complete stop on immigration from all African/Middle Eastern/Pakistani and some Asian countries would be a start, however a concerted effort would be needed-have the people who follow the values of Christianity the desire to implement such a policy?
The UN/EU Migration Compact, ratified in Marrakech in Dec 2018, by more than 150 countries for continuous global migration (into the West) will make a halt on mass movement into the West next to impossible, I’m afraid.
And gold plate-pensioned politicians will lament crocodile tears at how impotent they are, tied into the signed document. Albeit that the Compact is not legally binding, and does not differentiate between refugee vs migrant.
Under the Compact, the traveller (into the West, as always), is normalised: awarded the same legal status as indigenous & naturalised citizens, ie voting rights, access to civil & religious freedoms, social, welfare, education, health programmes, and employment status. (Employment not being the first priority thus far of mass migrants coming into Europe.) New consumers to build corporate profits – to be funded by generations of tax payers and public debt.
The effect on social, cultural, religious, economic cohesion and clash on western communities, as now, with the arrivals of millions of unvetted, entitled, and likely hostile people, has certainly been ignored in the Compact. (An EU/UN forecast for European populations in 2013 predicted a UK capacity of 180million (currently 66.8m, officially), Sweden 442m (currently 10m, officially), Ireland 65m (currently 4.7m, officially).
Limited reporting of the effects of mass migration are detailed in restricted media articles – but too many of those effects are awarded govt protection – such as the media anonymity for the rape gang court cases in the UK that Tommy Robinson has tried to highlight.
Far more, we rely on alternative channels for truth, such as the vital pages of GoV.
President Trump did not sign the Migration Compact. The southern border is probably sufficient for his present focus. Nor did Italy (Salvini gave a vocal No.) Nor did Australia, nor Brazil, nor Israel.
However, most European govts have signed-up for a forecasted 3bn+ migration from the 3rd world. 59 millions scheduled over the next five years. With negligible media coverage.
The UK Home Office (Sajeed Javed, Secretary of State) TWEETED on 17 June 2019 that “thousands of additional refugees will be arriving into the UK with effect from 2020.. And for many more years to come”. No mention on TV or radio at all.
An entirely different face has been planned for Europe. And most Europeans do not know; their attention deliberately diverted to degraded, demoralising TV, pc-thought dramas, MSN ‘views’, and unremittingly divisive radio propaganda brain wash on every channel. Wall to wall.
For those who want to think, they are seeking out alternative media, information and entertainment streams.
The state BBC TV mandatory licence fee is haemorrhaging one million subscribers per year.
Which is an encouraging sign for those who prefer to be awake and vigilant.
Gives some details of conforming countries:
One of the recurring themes in politics and government is central control versus self-control.
There are powerful incentives for the operatives of government to make a government large, more powerful and cover more area. The more money and power given to a state, the more power, wealth, and influence goes to the bureaucratic drones who populate the agencies.
Climate change and racial discrimination are two of the scams used to wrest, or attempt to wrest, vast amounts of money from productive people and give it to the elites and functionaries. Higher education is yet another. The case for refugees is yet another scheme; it funds vast refugee bureaucracies and accounts for numerous free-rent NGOs such as the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society (which seems thankfully to be going under).
Real estate is an underappreciated aspect of the refugee scam. Housing demand keeps going up, with more refugees coming in and more government money being made available for refugee housing. In other words, refugees are a very light gloss covering over vast government subsidies for housing. What could go wrong?
The only systemic antidote to the very powerful centralization forces is small, regional states where the legislators and administrators are very directly accountable to the people they represent.
Yes, thanks, Ronald. The welfare industry is another implement in the global tool box and a gargantuan, greedy money spinner with the profits, investments and pension vehicles too enmeshed and incentivised to be slowed. Huge property portfolios built on credit loans and funded by tax payer debt welfare loans. The financial end to a happy working day.
Empires and dynasties inflate, rise, fracture and fall of course. Human vanity repeats the cycle, seemingly learning little from history’s lessons. And not caring overly much either way, unbelievably – as we in the West are experiencing a time of enforced tumult that could only compare to life altering circumstances such as the fear of war. Not to exaggerate the point. Those at the top table will aim to leave without paying the bill, and with full e-wallets. The dish washers will remain in the kitchen, and a useful few will hitch a ride
The current construction model in the West has virtually global digital coverage on this build, and as such will leave few areas of the world unexposed and unravaged. With the ‘wallets’ having pre-determined their areas of refuge in a secure climatically prosperous zone.
The timeframe for that endpoint relying on a combination of push-steerage, then wait & watch for the inevitable mass fall, and next phase.
That’s my take on the curve.
Historically, smaller states in Europe played their hand at the beginning/end of each expansion and fracture, forging links and allies dependent on wealth and weakness, land mass and location, and shape -shifting borders when fractures won’t be mended. Mass migration wouldn’t have been the implement of choice with nil planes, speedy taxi boats, global food supplies and electronically clicked credit funds being invented yet.
Sail boats and gold-laden hulls required a good tail wind, and a continuous supply of rowers and food that physically depleted.
On the shocked morning of the Brexit referendum result in 2016, the London (current incumbent) mayor appeared on TV, trying his luck and calling for London to be hived off as a separate state, to be revenue and tax administered by his office and answerable to the population and workers in the capital. With separate EU passport status, “like the Vatican” he said. He had vocal TV support from a local borough mayor south of the Thames.
Perhaps a new sort of Chrislam-EU corporate brand, with the dominant residential vote – coming from the you-know-whos. And taking control of the financial beating heart of the capital, and by extension the country – and western Europe’s largest money market – into his small eager hands.
Losing the head of the nation (excuse the metaphor) – and linking with the demographic dominants in other UK cities (and towns) would create daisy chained autonomies within this small island. And the choke would have despatched us that much quicker. The nation’s demographics being a window through to what the riggers are pulling behind the door.
The Balkan fracture and split into Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia has endured because of geo land mass volume & location, as much as national, ethnic and religious will and wealth of each country.
Joining the EU project/empire brings them back into the expanded model again, albeit supranationally, and with recognised separate sovereignty. Bearing in mind that the objective of the Lisbon Treaty intends to transfer all sovereignty to the centre, Brussels.
Financial and economic gain being the sprat bait to catch the mackerel, again. While others like the UK and Italy are pulling away.
The old cycle is yet building and turning.
Don’t worry, human nature will kick in shortly as the situation is not sustainable. I am now calling what is coming The Great Purge, and no doubt is will be brutal, bloody and nasty business along the lines of a Crusades and Balkans on steroids in both scope and scale. These 3rd world savages used our Christian culture against us, so what comes after is up for speculation, but one thing is for sure, it won’t be recognized after all is said and done.
I wouldn’t count on it. Look at all the places around Europe (North Africa, etc) that have been Islamized historically.
Count on Poland and Hungary to do some serious pushback. They know. Poland has done it before. Twice in European history.
Mike, I would count on it, for once one country, or segment of that country, starts their Purge, it will embolden others to do the same, the domino effect if you will, critical mass has been reached, now it just takes someone to push it over. Mark my words, it is coming, and when it does, it will be sudden and unstoppable.
i certainly hope that The Great Purge *does* occur; it is, sadly, the last hope of europe. one should never hope for war, in which innocents are guaranteed to die, but the left has maneuvered each european country into this precarious position, and at this point, there is essentially no other choice than submitting to allah and his gang-bangers.
were the people now entering europe *any* religion – or cult! – but islam, the native cultures of the nations of europe would certainly survive. skin color wouldn’t make any difference to the end result (unless xenophobes happened to take control), because most people, if left alone, will leave others alone as well. the problem is islam, the cult, which doesn’t just encourage, but *D*E*M*A*N*D*S* that its adherents adopt a tribal attitude towards others (“tribal” meaning that those not in the tribe are not really human, and may be robbed, raped, killed, or otherwise abused with no penalty).
were traitors and uneducated/indoctrinated tools not in charge of eurabian nations, there would be no problem, because the encroachment of islam into europe would have been halted *decades* ago. the *hard-core* left, without a doubt, sees islam as a pry-bar with which to destroy society; their poor indoctrinated tools, who are the majority of those running the governments of europe, don’t bother looking at islam, because those to whom they look for what to think and how to act – the hard-core leftist thought leaders – tell them that islam is safe, and that settles the question for them.
throughout the ummah, approximately 10% of all muslims are pious (pray 5 times a day, know a lot about islam, attend mosque regularly, etc.); piety in islam *very* often equates with fundamentalism, or salafism, which means that most of that 10% has a definite jihadi bent. anybody who knows anything about islam therefore understands that if a country imports large numbers of muslims, about 10% of those imported will wish to make jihadi attacks on their hosts, and will withhold their hands only because it takes time to plan and execute an attack. for the left, the best part is that nobody will think to blame the left for the attacks, since jihadis are self-motivated by their poisonous cult, and don’t see the left as anything but useful idiots enabling their attacks.
i do not believe that the elites of europe – or of canada, or the u.s., or australia, etc. – are stupid. they did not get to their current positions by being stupid; were they stupid, smarter people would have done better than them and taken their places. therefore, either *all* of the elites are in on the conspiracy (not very likely), or, given the past practices of the left, there are hard-core leftists who “guide” the thoughts and thus the actions of the vast majority of nominal leftists, who are nominal in that they have only been exposed to leftist teachings, and not been taught to think critically. the “guidance” amounts to providing cover for pious muslims (mental illness, lone-wolf attacks, …) so that the ever-increasing attacks can destabilize society. once society collapses, the left can seize power, which is how it has almost without exception been able to accede to power in the past. those providing this “guidance” are, for the most part, hard-core leftists infecting university campuses.
thus, since there is little hope of dislodging the control of the elites, since more than half of the stupid stinking masses (those who are not elite) keep voting the elites back into power (because they, too, are nominally leftist), things will get progressively worse. eventually, there will almost certainly be civil war (The Great Purge), since few of the stupid stinking masses *OR* of the elites will be willing to submit to their islamic betters to the extent necessary to halt the attacks. this is because there will be general knowledge that things are better elsewhere, and *were* better at home in the past. in 8th-century syria, the christians knew that there would be no help from the byzantine empire, which no doubt encouraged many nominal christians to switch teams (especially criminals, since their crimes would then be “holy” and go unpunished).
like all wars, The Great Purge, as U noted, G, will be bloody. i expect a lot of muslims to die, but there will likely be a lot of the elites hanging eviscerated from lampposts as well. absolutely *N*O*N*E* of the deaths in the coming civil wars were necessary; the blame for *A*L*L* of the shed blood, and that to be shed, can be laid at the feet of the left. i, for one, will be hard pressed to feel any sympathy for murdered elites. were there a legitimate government in place, they could have been tried, but when somebody whose little daughter was raped, or whose relative gets murdered, or …, gets a chance to strike back at the monster who lied and let it happen, the monster will get his just deserts.
BA Freeman. The Great Purge will come about because human nature will demand it, for we are tribal by nature and when a foreign tribe and religion invades and then demands we tolerate and accept them and their foreign ways, conflict is always, without exception, inevitable. History has proved this over and over again. Democracy(in my most humble opinion) is dead, for we got to comfortable, too complacent, allowed our so called betters to decide what is good for us, and allowed easy lifestyle to make us fat and ripe for the pickings. The weak, stupid, left in any form are going to fall away to the strong, most ruthless, intelligent and cunning amongst us and to those who have zero problem with doing whatever is necessary to make sure our tribe thrives and survives and theirs to perish to the last one standing, it is the nature of man and we shall see it shortly, you can take it to the bank. So my friend, I leave you with this, arm up by whatever means necessary, for one way or another, you will be forced to get your hands dirty or perish.
“… a complete stop on immigration from all African/Middle Eastern/Pakistani and some Asian countries would be a start…”
A blisteringly inadequate one at best.
Even a complete blockade of immigration from all Islamic nations will not forestall the looming Muslim holocaust that—by their own blood-stained hands—they are precipitating in the West.
Islam wouldn’t have it any other way.
Amazing upside-down-world we are living in today.
And where are the fathers, brothers, cousins, uncles and
Boyfriends of these horribly assaulted young women
When this terrible situation is going on?
They are busy turning themselves into caricatures of women.
The police threaten to arrest them if they act. Sooner or later the angry crowd with torches and pitchforks will make their presence felt.
this is *EXACTLY* the point that so many americans miss about eurabia. we here in the u.s. have a constitutional guarantee of freedom of speech, and a constitutional guarantee enabling us to own guns, so without thinking, many of us assume that others are in the same position. in eurabia, they are *NOT*. it is *FAR* more difficult to protest the insanity in eurabia than in the u.s.
europeans cannot own guns except in limited circumstances, and when they do, their names go on a list of closely-watched future victims. the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR, essentially an EU supreme court) can overturn the laws of any EU nation. in october of 2018, the ECHR upheld a decision by the supreme court of austria saying that elisabeth sabaditsch-wolff could be fined 480 euros and put in jail for saying that muhammed could be considered a pedophile. their tortured reasoning was that in order to keep “religious peace,” such statements could not be made. ms. sabaditsch-wolff was overheard making that statement in a private conversation at a conference about islam she had arranged in 2008 or 2009; the austrian supreme court upheld her sentence in 2011. the implication is that if a muslim points out that what *U* say could cause muslims to riot, the government of the EU, or one of the complicit quisling states of which it is composed, will fine *U* and put *U* in prison. the previous paradigm was that those who used intimidation to silence others were the ones who were imprisoned, but now eurabian elites have embraced sharia. there is no longer free speech in the EU!
were massive numbers of europeans to learn of their predicament and take to the streets, the tide could be turned, even now. unfortunately, the left uses incremental theft of freedom, so that few people notice the loss. one is now faced with fines and prison should he be caught violating sharia by a muslim, and could easily lose his job and his home. given that the next steps towards a sharia state are so vile (stonings, beheadings, lashings, etc.), the stupid stinking masses (those who are *not* part of the elites) should be in the streets *today*, since there is safety in large numbers. since that won’t happen, once a few thousand people are killed by the sharia police, civil war will be impossible to avoid. war is horrible, since innocents are always killed and maimed, but at that point, there will be no other choice.
the left brought this on, and i suspect that the stupid stinking masses will hold the elites accountable. as U noted earlier, G, europe *after* the civil wars will be unrecognizable to those of us alive today. i’m willing to bet that besides thousands of dead (if not millions, since erdogan, the caliph of turkey, will no doubt involve himself and use nukes to kill kuffar for allah), there will not be too many muslims or leftists, or at least, those who claim to be leftists, still around. muslims will be gone – fortunately, for the most part.
and BTW, should there be any doubt, i include myself among the stupid stinking masses. i use that appellation because that is exactly how the lying leftist elites in every republic treat we non-leftists (or even nominal leftists).
BA, It must be noted that the black market for arms is flooding Europe as we speak and the smart natives see the writing on the wall and are buying everything they can get their hands on. As for the laws and rules of the EU regarding weapons, only the most brainwashed leftist or those in denial are following those so called laws anymore.
“Sooner or later the angry crowd with torches and pitchforks will make their presence felt.”
The EU elite should be ecstatic if their various and sundry peons show up merely armed with pitchforks and torches.
Tumbrels, more like.
You are too kind in your description of the gang rapists. They do not rape “women”, but target, as the text states, “girls”. We are talking child gang rape, the worst crime there is (in my humble opinion – worse than murder), and it goes unpunished.
“We are talking child gang rape, the worst crime there is (in my humble opinion – worse than murder), and it goes unpunished.”
It really should come as no surprise—since this involves a culture which so widely practices FGM—how Muslim men are inordinately comfortable with the notion that objects of their affection must endure a state of perpetual, constant rape.
Grooming victims, like those who suffer the unending agony of clitoridectomy, re-experience their trauma every moment that their assailants continue to survive … unpunished or otherwise.
I’ll leave it for other chivalrous, red-blooded males to determine what punishments are most appropriate. Let’s just put it this way, singing soprano should be the least of their worries.
In a more just world, such malefactors deserve to no longer have any use for urinals.
You got it exactly right with your 7% Calvinists and 9% Muslims drastically changing the course of a society and government. A focused identity group, particularly in a closely divided polity, basically controls the government. In other words, with two, completely different points of view almost evenly split, say like the Republicans and Democrats in the US, a small number of (Muslim) legislators can make or break legislation, including pork.
It’s what’s called an unstable equilibrium. The board is very sensitively balanced on the edge. Once it begins to tip (admitting Muslims), the extra weight causes it to tip even more out of balance (exert effective political influence to bring in yet more Muslims).
My own feeling is that the only way to even begin to address the problem is to split into autonomous, possibly confederated regions, each of which will have the power of controlling its own affairs, including most emphatically the right to exclude categories of people from entering its territory or becoming citizens.
We once had a debate before in this idea in GoV. We called it partition then. Since then, I have done a lot of reading and listening to scholars at the Abbeville Institute and the Mises Institute. I realize now that the concept of small Republics very responsive to their people is baked into the original Constitution and even more strongly into the state governments that existed prior to the Constitution and which ratified the Constitution.
The Articles of Confederation mandated free passage between states for citizens of any of the 13 states as long as they were self-supporting and not a public charge.
It seems paradoxical to speak of splitting up Holland, which is very small itself in comparison with most of its neighbors. But, if there is a split, much of the difference would be between urban centers, generally more heterogeneous and liberal, and rural areas, generally more traditional and homogeneous in native culture. The long history of autonomous city-states exists for a reason.
RonaldB: Unwinding the Westphalian nation-state and going back to autonomous city-states would return parts of Europe to the something akin to the Holy Roman Empire, and then, we can have another 30-Year War. Actually, it sounds plausible.
Which was more costly? The 30-years war or the World War I and II conflicts? Not to mention the slaughters of the massive superstates of the USSR and Republic of China towards its own people.
If there is an argument in favor of the super state, the argument is not that the super state prevents war and slaughter.
Add to that that the states of the US served very nicely as quasi-independent states until 1860, when Lincoln overturned the idea of a confederation of states and asserted the absolute sovereignty of the nation over its constituent parts.
I don’t know if the cities would be autonomous or not. Plainly, cities were mini-states up until Westphalia, and New York City and Philadelphia, the metropolises of the day, were parts of their states from before the Revolution. But today, the largest metropolitan areas would dominate the rural parts of their states so completely that a separation makes sense.
Actually, in terms of population percentages in the territories involved, the thirty years war was more costly. Germany lost about half of its population, and Bohemia, where the festivities started lost two thirds of its population. I know that this war has been used as an example of religious conflict, though recent scholarship has questioned that interpretation. The fact remains that after 13 years all of the participants agreed to a peace treaty except for Richelieu and Gustavus Adolphus (France and Sweden, Catholic and Protestant, respectively). It is believed that what kept things going was the strategic importance or the Bohemian-Moravian highlands for the control of Central Europe. As Gustavus Adolphus put it, “If I were about religion I would attack the Pope.”
I appreciate your correction.
So, is there a lesson for Europe and the US in history? The Federalists claim the need for a strong national government exactly because of the internecine squabbles and wars of the Greeks and Medieval Europeans. Canada, Switzerland, and the US prior to 1860 seem to have existed quite well on the confederation model; involving alliances of independent, smaller states.
I agree with your premise that we will be forced to split into smaller autonomous regions in order to more effectively exclude those whom are inimical to public order. However, the problem still remains of what to do with those who are already within the borders as aliens, those within the borders who are citizens but of foreign origin and unwilling to integrate, and the children of those citizens who are wholly citizens by birth but actively hostile to their country of birth as well as agitating for sharia and islamification.
I still do not see any solution to the latter issues that does not ultimately involve violence and/or gross violation of laws and rights of citizens. Just partitioning a country into muslim occupied and native populated regions will be extraordinarily violent, and it still leaves a situation similar to the partition of India and Pakistan where the residual muslim populations continued to breed like rats to the point that they again threaten the stability of the country. Also, giving them autonomy and something approaching their own nation allows them to openly aquire military weapons and explosives, and the capability and resources needed to create chemical and biological weapons with which to threaten their neighbors.
I see partition as a temporary measure to buy a little time of relative peace at the expense of future generations who will be forced to ultimately fight for survival against a much more formidible enemy.
We’re actually talking about two different problems. One problem is the problems of Muslims and Africans in proximity to native people, and voting in socialism. The other problem is representative government as such. That is, a country that is too large simply cannot be ruled as a republic. This is Jeffersonian theory, as opposed to Alexander Hamilton and later, Lincoln.
I would argue that when a nation is too large, it may retain the appearance of a Republic, but is in fact ruled by a bureaucracy that is representative only in the haziest sense. The larger a government, the more likely the legislators are to be separated from their constituents. So, you got monstrosities such as the immigration bill of 1965 and atrocities like forced busing, mandated by the unelected and wholly-unaccountable courts.
My feeling is there is a way to manage Muslims without atrocities. They can have their own areas, but in no way would they be allowed military weapons and may even be walled off from non-Muslims. The Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories is a very workable example. The Palestinians are a self-ruling (to a degree) occupied state, and would be doing much better if they didn’t force Israel to build a wall to keep out terrorists.
Yes, I would agree a major cause of the breakdown of republican governance in America is that populations have grown to such an enormous degree that proportional representation has not been able to keep up. The growth of cities and urban areas to gargantuan size relative to state populations also has resulted in a perverse situation in many states where the whole countryside is legislatively dominated by urban elites. California has the largest number of conservative voters of any state in the union, but the liberal populations of the Bay Area and Greater Los Angeles give them a stranglehold on state politics. Splitting CA into several smaller states would give those rural voters a voice in the direction of their state.
The problem with muslims runs into human nature; the political nature of the “religion” and the propensity to multiply like rats means that sooner or later they will become a problem anywhere they are given some measure of autonomy. Palestinians are granted their own ****hole country and the first thing they do is elect terrorists who promptly start fighting one another at the same time they are building and firing rockets into Israel. Muslims who are given some measure of autonomy in the Balkans imported weapons and committed atrocities against any non muslims who happened to be unfortunate enough to be stuck in their territory. Of course it was returned in kind because the Balkan men are not as feminized as western european men, but the point is that it is impossible for muslims to peacefully coexist with any non muslims or each other for that matter.
In an era when projection of power was limited to strength of arms and the ability of logistics to support large armies in the field, muslims were a constant threat to the west but not an existential one. The ability to manufacture biological weapons by countries of relatively modest means, and the ability to manufacture or purchase stolen nuclear weapons by more affluent muslim countries makes them a much more dangerous and existential threat to the West, especially when combined with an irrational and fatalistic system of belief.
“it is impossible for muslims to peacefully coexist with any non muslims or each other for that matter”
That’s not totally true. Jews and Coptic Christians co-existed with Muslims for a thousand years in Egypt. Christians were quite safe in Iraq under Saddam Hussein until the US invaded and destroyed Iraq social control mechanisms. Christians and Yazidis were quite safe and protected in Syria until the US-supplied ISIS and rebel Islamists threatened the Syrian government.
There is a prosperous Jewish community in Iran right now; Iranian Jews and visitors claim the Iranian Jews are far safer walking in their religious clothes in Tehran than in, say, Paris or Stockholm.
The Sufi Muslims in Albania quite famously offered refuge to European Jews fleeing persecution and death in the rest of Europe.
But still to admit, Muslims immigrating into Western countries are a corrosive force. It is quite possible to manage a problem over an extended period of time, rather than trying to “solve” it in one step. Take the example of Romanian gypsies, a parasitic, destructive, crime-ridden cluster in Eastern Europe. They are isolated as far as possible, and their children are not allowed to attend public schools with other children because Gypsy children are taught to steal. The East European countries have learned how to deal with Gypsies, without resorting to the atrocities instituted by Hitler.
Spain tried a mild tactic of dealing with Muslims after the Reconquista, allowing converted Muslims to remain as citizens. Spain ended up expelling the whole lot because they not only maintained their Islamic religion in secret; they actively subverted the Spanish government.
Ronald B, There is no way to handle the muslims without warfare, for they will not allow it, so therefore violent confrontation is inevitable, as it always is. What is nice is that they congregate in urban areas which can easily be cut off and pacified when they are ripe for the pickings after electricity, water and food is shut off. As for Israel, there is no such thing as occupied lands called fakestine, the Israeli’s won it wars they started, so to the Victors always goes the spoils. When the Israeli’s finally get tired of this islamic jihad nonsense, hopefully they will give them the Carthage treatment and call it a day.
I totally disagree with your view of dealing with Muslims or anyone else. Israel is dealing quite profitably with Egypt, which supports the Israel tactic of isolating the Gaza fanatics. Israel is also collaborating with Saudi Arabia, a fundamentalist Muslim government.
Ronald B, Whether you agree with me or not where dealing with muslims is concerned is a matter of history, for it always ends up with massive bloodshed where those savages are concerned. Those temporary truces with the arabs where Israel is concerned is what it is, temporary, as it always is, until the arabs have a pretense to attack those pesky Jews again, as they always do, when they feel the time is right. As for the fakestinians, the Israelis have played with kid gloves with those savages firing rockets and mortars at them and the population has to be armed at all times ready for the next jihadist going off. Far to nice as far as I am concerned and one way or another will come to a flash point and half [formed], limited military response leading to another lull until the next Islamic meltdown. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that we are going to get out of this without getting your hands dirty, you could not be more wrong, for history is on my side and not your utopian wishful thinking. War whether you like it is coming, and once it arrives, it is going to be sudden, without warning, and quickly spiral out of anyone’s control, especially in Europe where you will see the military having to finally take control of western European nations because the feckless Quisling politicians got us to this point. The various military leaders have made preparations for taking control, despite these traitorous politicians best efforts, for they know it is coming and no longer have any control over the absolute [messup] these treasonous and traitorous politicians own making. Whether you like it or not, massive bloodshed is coming, so please my friend, prepare yourself accordingly. I do really enjoy your very deep academic musings, but at the end of the day, human nature and violence are the arbitrators of all things in the end.
Once again, quoting myself from earlier: Asterisks are not sufficient to cleanse vulgar words. Next time please state your points using polite synonyms. I get tired after doing a lot of redactions, so eventually I’ll just delete such comments outright.
“… a small number of (Muslim) legislators can make or break legislation, including pork.”
Muslims rooting in America’s pork barrel. Who’d a thunk it?
If this trend continues, and it will, choices will begin to be limited. The longer we wait the fewer our choices will be. There is a quote somewhere out there about how we live in a sort of topsyturvydom and how it is useless to rail against it. I don’t buy that argument. I like this one:
“Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.”
― Winston S. Churchill
Politicians! It’s the politicians, they’re to blame. Their policies have resulted in the problems we face today. Deal with the politicians and the secondary problem will be easy as pie to solve.
RonaldB, I really do enjoy your considerable thoughts on these matters. We did have a split once before, it was the civil war that solved that problem of straying off the path of the Republic. Europe has done that many times with city states, but they we all eventually consolidated under the various crowns. As for letting the muslims have their own entities to rule as a city state is unworkable and unsustainable for islam always, without exception seeks to expand it’s power and influence, therefore it is far better, as history has proved time and time again, to force the muslim problem to it’s inevitable conclusion, total war, where no muslim or mosques is left standing. Deep down inside yourself, you know what is coming and it won’t be pretty and the depth of death and destruction will be felt for centuries. There is no peaceful way out of this, it never is where islam is concerned. Deo Volente!
G, I think you are underestimating what will be required for victory. It will not be enough to drive islam and muslims from just western Europe, or from the West generally. Once those steps are taken, muslim nations will not stand by and do nothing as their fellow muslims are driven off, or more likely slaughtered when they refuse to leave voluntarily.
Once this kind of war starts, it will be a true clash of civilizations and the atrocities on both sides will mean that nothing less than total annihilation of islamic or western christian civilization will be the end result. It is simply too dangerous to leave such an enemy unmolested in his own lands to recuperate and plot revenge. Victory at it’s least genocidal will mean the occupation of islamic countries for generations while their societies are forcibly de-islamisized, women are educated and compelled to enter the workplace and public life, the koran is banned or rewritten to a less virulent form, and those who follow the old version are rounded up and put to death. De-islamification would be such an impossible task that I see genocide as being the more likely option for most islamic countries. This is the scope of the problem as I see it, and the magnitude of what effort would be needed for victory by western civilization should war in europe begin against the islamic invaders.
The good idea is not to ban the Koran but to make it a capital crime of blasphemy to present it as the word of God. Blasphemy (qillelat haShem) is a capital crime in biblical law.
My friend Moon, I do not underestimate what the muslim countries will do once their fellow muslims are in peril in are own lands, in fact, I am counting on it, especially those bloody turks, for then, finally we can take the bloody velvet glove off and put on the mailed fist. For there is a reason that Carthage is both feared and remembered, for it bloody works. What you call genocide, I call it what it has always been, warfare that is total. One way or another it will come to this if we are to survive and thrive. If you are in Britain or Europe my friend, time to arm up, for the Purge is almost upon us.
I’m not so pessimistic, “Moon” (may I call you “Heinlein”?) The West largely contained communism, internal and external, for decades without mass killings, and some of their states had nukes.
Heinlein is fine. At least you know the reference!
The communists were rational in their own way; they believed in the cold logic of MAD and didn’t believe in a paradise full of virgin boys and girls for martyrs to rape for eternity.
Those differences make all the difference in why when war starts it will be a war to the death with no quarter given or asked. True believers are the most dangerous opponents because they cannot be deterred or reasoned with. It is the difference between fighting the germans in europe and fighting the japanese in the pacific. Japanese soldiers refused to surrender and if they did there was a good chance they were waiting to set off a grenade and take their captors with them. Due to cultural differences in islamic countries, some might be merely occupied and de-islamicized, but others will have to be slaughtered to the last man, woman, and child because it is too dangerous to do otherwise. Westerners in general and Americans in particular do not have the stomach for such slaughter of noncombatants, although where islam is concerned there are really no noncombatants. Muslim women can have muslim babies who grow up to become martyrs and suicide bombers who will want to avenge their religion. What will Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Iran be doing while europeans are driving out muslims from Europe, and killing those who refuse to leave? I don’t believe it would be just sitting on their hands. What will muslims in France be doing if Denmark or Sweden finally has enough and really starts to get serious about deporting its muslims? All other european countries would face uprisings or be forced to take military action against whichever european country was first to try to tackle its muslim infestation.
perhaps china’s method of handling the uighurs (their muslims) is best. nobody gets slaughtered, but the process is brutal, and any (non-muslim, or non-*pious*-muslim) parent will understand its brutality.
china is shipping its uighurs to re-education camps. i don’t know if they’re doing what commies used to do in such camps (mass murder and mass unmarked graves), but from what i have been able to find, it looks like they take the children from the parents while the latter are “re-educated.” apparently the commies eventually turn the muslims loose once they are taught what will and will not be tolerated, but the parents don’t get the kids back – ever. after a single generation, islam dies out, because all the kids are adopted and raised as commies. they don’t even need to kill the muslims, since once they’re gone, islam will be gone.
this is actually quite generous, from a commie point of view; the usual commie response to troublemakers in the past century was to round them up and kill them. only lucky folk got to visit the gulag, where one at least had a chance of release, however infinitesimal.
i’m not saying that this is what *we* should do; i’m simply making note of it. in my book, we should ship all muslims back to their native [sump] nations and isolate them, evacuating all non-muslims who wish to leave. each [sump] nation should have a dictator installed whom republics support, since people such as saddam hussein, hafez assad and his nasty brat, mubarak, etc., tend to keep their subordinate thugs in line, and are unwilling to share power with their fellow muslim thugs in neighboring [sump] nations. that way, the [ordure] of islam stays put and doesn’t spread. and if westerners want to visit, they should be allowed to do so, but if they get snatched, *immediate* massive military action *MUST* take place, or the thugs will only do it again. gang-bangers only understand violence, so we must communicate that their ways are not our ways, but we are both willing and able to set them straight. with any luck and a few centuries, islam might fizzle out.
“It is simply too dangerous to leave such an enemy unmolested in his own lands to recuperate and plot revenge. Victory at it’s least genocidal will mean the occupation of islamic countries for generations while their societies are forcibly de-islamisized, women are educated and compelled to enter the workplace and public life, the koran is banned or rewritten to a less virulent form, and those who follow the old version are rounded up and put to death.”
There is only one way to economically “reach out and touch” 1.6 BILLION people … and it isn’t by using bullets. Whatever “10%” that are the jihadist babies, will (with astonishing alacrity) be peremptorily tossed out with the Muslim bathwater.
Any fastidiousness or delicacy that a sense of humanity once dictated of this process will have been long-disposed of after a sufficient amount of Europe’s ancient patrimony is laid to waste (e.g., X quantity of Notre Dame cathedrals).
Sheer efficiency will dictate nuclear annihilation. Unsuccessfully pacifying a mere handful of Muslim majority nations already has bled our world to the tune of a FEW TRILLION DOLLARS.
At such a pace, there simply isn’t enough wealth on the ENTIRE PLANET to quell jihad through “conventional” means. This inexorable formula will be Islam’s undoing. The Muslim Middle East shall consider itself fortunate if its own architectural heritage is preserved through Western use of “enhanced yield devices” (i.e., neutron bombs).
Otherwise, as one wag so aptly put it: Eventually Muslims will begin to feel rather silly bowing five times a day to a plain of hot smoking glass.
Islam always has demanded to be paid in its own bloody coin. Violence is the only currency of their realm and payment in kind is their only recognized transaction. The 9-11 Atrocity made this appallingly clear and only Quislings or fools think otherwise.
I’m replying to you, Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and others.
Talk of wholesale slaughter of Muslims is crazy talk.
Islam was once a dire military threat to the West. See Robert Spencer’s “History of Jihad”: https://www.amazon.com/History-Jihad-Muhammad-ISIS-ebook/dp/B07D6X3TRT/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=History+of+jihad&qid=1562942808&s=gateway&sr=8-1. I have read it several times and recommend it highly.
But, Islam as a conquering force deteriorated beginning in the 18th century. Militarily, Islamic countries have been totally dominated by Western countries.
The big problem comes when Western countries allow Muslims in as immigrants or refugees. Physically, it is the simplest thing in the world to keep them out. No killings, mass dislocations, or suppression is required. Simply put up a fence/wall and screen visitors.
There was a movement a few years ago to rush Israel’s borders with refugees. Israel put up land mines and shot a few would-be rushers. The movement ended; no mass killings, no mass suppression. A few Hamas operatives got shot.
The Muslims are themselves divided and left to their own devices, will tend to balance each other out. Shi’a Iran balanced Sunni-dominated Iraq very nicely. The US neocons, as exemplified by current National Security Adviser Bolton, goaded the US into using its military to overthrow and then dismantle the Iraqi government of Saddam Hussein. As a result, we are now confronting a problematic Iran.
Saudi Arabia is now leader of a coalition to balance Iran, assisted by Israel. All well and good. Why the US is allying itself with Saudi Arabia I don’t know, but I predict with certainly it will be yet another neocon-inspired US disaster in the Middle East. What’s the best path for the US? Keep out Saudi Arabians (would have avoided 9/11), keep out Iranians, keep out Iraqis and keep out Afghans (except for the dogs). Does that involve mass killing of Muslims? No! Does it involve suppression of Islam? No!
What to do with the Muslims already here? Begin by deporting all non-citizens. Withdraw all social welfare services, housing benefits and affirmative action requirements. It may be necessary to limit the franchise for certain groups. Does that involve mass killing? No.
i might have a couple of quibbles with your approach, Ronald, but for the most part, i agree with it. almost all muslims in muslim [sumps] are either peasants or living in dire poverty, so they pose no threat to anybody. only the nastiest pious muslims are dangerous, and if we confine them to their [sumps], the rest of the world will be OK. it’s too bad that new muslims are generated by birth, but if we allow westerners to visit and make clear what opportunities abandoning the cult presents, the salafi flavor may go away, ensuring that future new muslims will be amenable to tolerating others because of their lack of knowledge of true islam. the most effective opponents of islam are those who *USED* to be muslim, and if enough westerners visit muslim [sumps], the ummah will be filled with muslim “hypocrites” (another word for potentially decent people), from whom more ex-muslims will assuredly come. eventually – probably over a period of 2 or 3 centuries – islam would die out.
mass murder is in the province of nazis and commies, both of whom are leftists. it should not be necessary to murder people to make the world safe. unfortunately, it is now too late to prevent civil wars in almost every western and westernized nation because of the ill-advised admission of the ummah to them, so large numbers of deaths can no longer be avoided. we must now strive to get the truth out to try to minimize both the length and number of civil wars; in fact, the first 2 or 3 european civil wars might win the argument for rational people in nations not yet at the breaking point, precluding more deaths.
Asterisks are not sufficient to cleanse vulgar words. Next time please state your points using polite synonyms. I get tired after doing a lot of redactions, so eventually I’ll just delete such comments outright.
So many problems with your “solutions”. How long to wait for a political solution, and how when Islam is a political doctrine and it has proven to dominate?
When was an Islamic country reverting itself through peaceful means?
“When was an Islamic country reverting itself through peaceful means?”
One may as well ask: In all human history how many countries have peacefully converted to Islam?
Let’s see if anyone here knows the answer.
RonaldB, With all due respect, it is not crazy talk, but cold, cruel, brutal, harsh reality that is inevitable, your lack of imagination and understanding of history is getting in the way of what you can see outside of the box.
As for the neocons want of war in middle eastern nations? The American public won’t stand for it, for they saw the folly of taking out Iraq for a resurgent Iran now in control of the area and won’t be fooled into another bloody fiasco.
The Israeli and Saudi connection is a temporary truce, until the next muslim attack when they think it is in their best interest to do so, for they really do hate those pesky Jews with a burning passion.
“What’s the best path for the US? Keep out Saudi Arabians (would have avoided 9/11), keep out Iranians, keep out Iraqis and keep out Afghans (except for the dogs).”
And what about those knitted Afghans?!? Their fluffy, seemingly harmless demeanor is every bit as deceptive. The oft-colorful tale woven by them is a distraction to countless Western eyes. Such clacking needles imply not-an-iota of Madame Defarge’s gruesome threat and do naught but drown out the plaintive cries of rape victims everywhere.
These ostensibly innocent granny projects can be just more dangerous than jihad when used as a wet blanket to smother the West with sharia!
“The Muslims are themselves divided and left to their own devices, will tend to balance each other out. ”
Once, that may have been the case. The entrance of nuclear weapon has forever altered that equation … to the eternal peril of all Muslims.
Oh, but that they shall taste the Total War which they are so fond of threatening all others with. Overnight, Islam would become a historical footnote and present future (lead-suited) archaeologists with endless excavative opportunities (once that annoying sheet of hot, smoking, Windexed™ glass has been drilled through).
If 75% of the Dutch population wants shariah law, then there is nothing to stop democracy from becoming a shariah society”.
If you have shariah, there is no democracy.
Seriously, where are husbands, brothers, fathers of these women? Either there are no rapes or there are no men. I’m for [redacted] but this is a very serious matter that need explanations, either real or theoretical.
I want [redacted] to happen but we need explanations.
Dutch people are smart and they can print guns just easily if there are laws that ban them.
The price is high for [sharia compliant redact] who touch any women in my family.
At least 100 and I’ll take at least a year to plan for it.
“At least 100 and I’ll take at least a year to plan for it.”
Even a survival ratio of one-per-hundred would represent a wholly unexpected outcome in terms of what probably awaits Islam. That rate of one percent (the Ummah’s own “one percent”?) would leave some SIXTEEN MILLION surviving Muslims and THEY would—regardless of any containment or curtailment strategies—continue to constitute a formidable threat against Western Civilization.
This is merely one of many reasons why I continue to predict a European (if not global) Muslim holocaust.
At last, someone else who gets the cold, brutal logic of the problem and it’s most likely solution.
It is not that I relish the thought of the deaths of several billion individuals; it is the knowledge that by their own stubborness, fervor, and intractibility that the civilized world will be left with no other choice but to implement such a solution after all other solutions will have been tried.
“It is not that I relish the thought of the deaths of several billion individuals…”
Neither do I. None of which changes by one jot or tittle the fact that Islam forever remains its own worst enemy or (using a term more often confined to describing chemical reactions) a self-imposed rate limiting factor.
Having no upper limit on their own barbarity, Muslims will inspire retaliation (most likely of the massively disproportionate ilk) that meets and exceeds their wildest expectations.
As only overachievers of their sort can deserve.
Those rare Muslims firing on more than a few cylinders will, one day, realize that these ominous warnings were specifically intended to avoid what, with each passing day, appears to be, Islam’s utter annihilation.
Let it rain!