The “anti-fascists” were busy today, beavering away in opposition to free speech in Ottawa and using slings to throw rocks at police in Gothenburg.
It would be useful to step back from the specific actions of these antifas, and attempt to grasp the larger forces at work. But first let’s take a look at what happened today.
Regular readers have seen numerous translations here from the Czech and Slovak by Xanthippa, who relocated to Canada from Czechoslovakia when it was a Socialist Republic and the Iron Curtain was still in place. Xanthippa went to Parliament Hill in Ottawa this afternoon to speak at a free speech rally, which was beset — as such rallies always are — by violent “anti-fascist” protesters. She left this comment at our blog after she returned home:
Just came back from a Free Speech rally on Canada’s Parliament Hill.
About 30 to 50 of us, and the 500 or so (many paid for) Antifa/Labour Unions/Communists (yes, they were flying the Soviet flag) repeatedly tried to rush us and do us bodily harm.
RCMP, some in full riot gear, some with powerful-looking weapons, held them back, but the Antifa+ thugs kept rushing them, squeezing us into smaller and smaller area before ordering and escorting us off the Hill.
We could not even take our equipment with us, had to return for it ‘later’.
After she returned from the front lines on Parliament Hill, Xanthippa was interviewed about the day’s events:
And here’s an account of what happened by a member of a group called the Proud Boys. Near the end of this clip you can hear the antifas chanting “Nazi scum — off our streets!”:
The antifas also took exception to the opinions of anti-immigration activists in Quebec.
On the other side of the Atlantic, antifa forces thronged the streets of the Swedish city of Gothenburg. Their actions against the police were noticeably more violent than those of their counterparts in Ottawa, possibly because the Swedish police are more restrained in their responses than are the Mounties.
Here are two videos of the same event today in Gothenburg, showing the antics of Swedish antifas: Clip1,Clip 2.
Antifas have also been active recently in the USA. To get a sense of the extent to which things have escalated, watch Steven Crowder’s video about an undercover infiltration of Antifa that revealed their plans to use more serious weapons than rocks and sticks — weapons that can cause serious injury, or even death.
The “anti-fascists” have undoubtedly been busy elsewhere in the Western world, but these are just the reports that crossed my desk today.
The above accounts are fairly representative of the behavior of “anti-fascists” throughout the West. None of their actions should come as a surprise. So why not take a look at the larger picture, of which each black-masked stone-throwing flag-carrying antifa is just a miniscule part?
What we see here is what the antifas do whenever free-speech advocates or anti-immigration activists gather in groups of five or more. It’s very predictable: If you hold a rally in support of the First Amendment, you can expect a large crowd of black-masked thugs to show up and throw rocks at you (and you can also expect the media to report that “violence erupted” at the event, as if both sides were equally at fault — but that’s another story).
At this point, we should take a break from reporting on the atrocities perpetrated by the antifas, and instead try to examine the larger picture.
Imagine that I venture outside my front door during a violent thunderstorm. I get pelted by hailstones as large as golf balls, and almost get struck by lightning. I recoil in horror, hurry back inside, and close the door behind me. And then I show everyone else my video of the Sturm und Drang so they can appreciate what I just went through.
The next day, dark clouds gather again, and I go outside and repeat the same process.
And then the same thing the next day, and the day after that.
At some point I might want to look at the epi-phenomena that lie behind my terrifying experiences. I might want to study up on the thermodynamics of thunderstorms, or look into the meteorological records for my area to understand the weather patterns that lead to these violent tempests, rather than keep showing my videos of the hailstones whacking me on the top of the head.
That’s where we are with Antifa. That’s what they do, every time. They’re as predictable as hailstorms.
But the important question is: Why does this happen?
As I pointed out last fall: Until right after Trump was elected, the antifas hadn’t been seen in the USA in any significant numbers until after Hillary lost. Then, suddenly, they were everywhere.
And wherever they appear, their actions are more or less the same. Whether in Sweden or Canada or Berkeley, they wear the same masks, carry the same flags, and do the same violent things. Allowing for differences in language — and even those differences are not all that significant, since some of the signage is always in English — the antifas are remarkably uniform.
The “anti-fascists” always outnumber their free-speech opponents, usually by an order of magnitude. The event today on Parliament Hill is typical: fifty free-speech advocates, five hundred antifas.
Yet the antifas’ cause is not very popular. Wherever polling is available, the opinions of the “anti-fascists” are always those of a small minority. How, then, do they manage to assemble so many violent demonstrators against so few of their opponents?
And the most important question of all: Who is paying for it?
In science fiction circles there is often a discussion about a phenomenon known as “Steam Engine Time”. The name refers to the invention of the steam engine in the 18th century. It happens that James Watt was credited with the invention, but it could have been any number of other people, because the idea of the steam engine was in the air at the time. The technology was there, the resources were there, the understanding of physics was there — it was steam engine time.
Right now, here in Anno Domini 2017, it’s Antifa Time.
The idea of the steam engine was a distributed one — lots of people in different places using the same scientific theory and the same technology to come up with the same idea at about the same time.
Is the idea of “anti-fascism” also distributed? Is it emerging in more or less the same form in multiple places at about the same time, without any connection between its manifestations?
Or is there a central control structure that instructs the antifas to get out there on the streets and “Smash the Fash”?
I don’t have the answer to these questions. But they are the ones that beg to be urgently investigated.
Yes, we know that if you go out that door again, you’ll get pelted by hail. But where is the hail coming from?
Hat tips: For the Swedish videos, Da Capo; for the Quebec and Crowder videos, Vlad Tepes.
There’s only one problem with Xanthippa’s video and that is that she has bought the lie that the Rohinga Muslims are the victims.
Far from it.They came from Bangladesh ,uninvited ,squatted in Myamar thenattacked and killed Hindu women, babies ,children and old people and buried them in mass graves.They also attacked and killed Buddhist families ,soldiers and policemen.
The Rohingas have a vast paramilitary wing that launched a simultaneous attack on 30 police stations.
Their aim and object is to attack and destroy the institutions and government of Myamar ,rendering the country ungovernable and coming to power in the chaos.
The Rohinga didn’t count on the Myammar government fighting back.But they are the aggressors ,the invaders who are persecuting the Burmese, not the victims.
Last year here in Ozz a Rohinga Muslim so called refugee went to the Springvale branch of the Commonwealth bank.
He went inside saw there were plenty of women with babies and small children waiting to be served.
Then CCTV caught him going and fetching a can of gasoline ,bringing it into the bank ,pouring it on the floor and setting it on fire.
Many customers were injured and hospitalized.
The swine having been brought to trial a couple of weeks ago says he is the innocent victim of an uncaring Australian host society.That’s the Rohinga’s idea of gratitude and common decency…
You’ve got to take what you can get. A proper appreciation of the Rohinga would suggest that they be left to their fates in light of the fact they represent a threat to their host governments.
Fortunately, when defending freedom of speech, it’s not necessary to take all your positions to their ultimate conclusion. It is only necessary to defend the freedom of those who do to speak. They can debate with those holding other positions, and see which holds water.
Funding domestic terrorism is a crime. The police need to do their jobs.
The Police?
Just part of the left wing government apparatus.
Read Tommy Robinson’s first book, “Enemy of the State.” The police break every law in England arresting him and taking away every single civil right he possessed all at the direction of the state.
The Berkeley Communists (Antifa) smash things, beat people and the police stand by and do NOTHING. Any and all major cities in the US blue states are Antifa cheerleaders. I don’t trust the Red States much either and I live in one.
Same in ‘ uk’
Well, let’s say: it’s class war time again.
I tend to find a parsimonious explanation to everything I encounter and have no immediate explanation for.
Let’s see: after decades of leftist indoctrination in the West, part of the public, especially young people, fell for the “social and race and xyz justice” mantra of the reborn Marxism wedded to political correctness. Social gaps between the richest and the average Joe helped quite a bit, too …
There is virtually no Antifa events in Hungary, Czech Republic, Poland – or are they?
So the explanation I would accept as plausible and passing the Ockham razor test: it is mostly spontaneous movement signaling rebirth of (now social) Marxism and similar leftist ideologies, which we – having lived through for decades and seen their utter stupidity and retardation (after initial brutal outburst of various socialist revolutions) – naively thought to be finally defeated in the 1990s and done with once and forever.
But somebody truly needs to pay for all this … that’s what I have no clue about.
Oh, yes, there are antifa events all over in Eastern Europe. Soros and other Jewish* organizations are very active in Eastern Europe, not as much in funding marches (except for LGBT parades, pro-abortion events, anything against the traditional family), but in lobbying for anti-free speech laws, promoting communism and muslim immigration.
For example (just relating to Soros), you may have heard about Soros’ University in Hungary (established in 1991) or the antifa marches against the wall at the border with Serbia, but you might not be aware of the extent of the network just this guy has. The Open Society Foundation started operating in Romania in 1990, immediately after the fall of communism and it gave birth to a multitude of NGO’s (here https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ro&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.activenews.ro%2Fstiri-social%2FFundatia-pentru-o-Societate-Deschisa-cel-mai-cunoscut-ONG-detinut-de-George-Soros-PLEACA-din-Romania-141109&edit-text= is a link with some of the many organizations it has spawned, as well as a very long, but incomplete, list of public figures who received grants and scholarships from these groups). Here https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ro&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fevz.ro%2Freteaua-soros-bani-pentru-organizatiile-civice-1.html is an investigation into some of the money that has been funneled into Romanian politics. The Soros University (one of the wealthiest in Europe after Soros endowed it with almost 1 billion$) has trained a multitude of individuals who now write for most newspapers in Eastern Europe.
I think the question should be not who pays for antifa street thugs, but who pays for all the indoctrination (which eventually creates the street thugs willing to beat people up for having an opinion).
*Note to the editor: it’s not anti-Semitic (I will be the first to say not all Jews are bad), it is factual.
My honest opinion.
Because it is such a subversive structure, so well organized and definitely centrally conducted I believe the only way to fight it is to create a mafia like structure , webbed and well informed.
This structure would not be a physical fighting entity, but more like information web with detection of $$ , Where they come from, to whom they go ,places, people.etc.
This mafia structure would action underground at the root of the evil to cut the oxygen to this Antifa branches.
It is all about money, so only by cutting the $ we cut them out
I which I could have time for this, would be a very interesting project .
There was such a think once upon a time. Lefty watch or some such.
.
“Allahu akbar” – here the Arabs are attacking the police in Gothenburg
Opposition Mob in Gothenburg scanned “Allahu Akbar” while throwing bottles, kicks and smokers at the Gothenburg Police, footage by freelance journalist and twitter profile Peter Sweden shows.
https://youtu.be/EKGqTBp22aU
Published September 30, 2017 at 21.52
It was during the leftover troubles in Gothenburg to the earlier today’ fights that Arab counterparts went to attack the police.
– Allahu Akbar! Takbir, some of the masked men roared while bottles, bumps and smoke flakes flew through the air.
The impact of immigrants was large among the violent counter-protesters.
“It is unclear whether it is left-wing extremists who are out for political purposes, or if there are criminal immigrants who are charging the police for pleasure,” says Peter Sweden to the Free Times.
But before the immigrant invasion of Sweden, there was the government-supported EXPO, and they heavily attacked members of Sweden Democrats.
With the rise of populism in Sweden, SD has increased its numbers…and there is safety in numbers.
There is a world-wide rise in populism in response to the globalists. How that will play out remains to be seen since the large majority of people are mostly a-political until some dictator or national distress forces politics into their lives.
“The “anti-fascists” always outnumber their free-speech opponents, usually by an order of magnitude.”
Not everywhere… in Poland, the opposite happens – the tiny group of antifa counter-protesters usually have to be surrounded by police, for their own protection 😉
As for the larger point – yes, there does seem to be some organising effort behind it… perhaps on any campus where there is a big far-left protest scene (eg most campuses in the western world right now), they love protesting for any of their silly “causes” (no tuition fees, transgender toilets, tearing down statues etc)… perhaps they use the same mailing groups for those protests, to gather and organise any time the “fascists” show up? Given that the “fascists” are evil, they have no problem using violence… and given that most of them are unemployed layabouts living with their parents (findings of a recent study), they don’t have much of a career to lose – unlike some of their opponents on the other side of the barricade. Hence they’re far more aggressive, and far more willing to go out on the streets.
What the anti-antifas need to do IMO is get on to the campuses. It will be a tough battle, and an uphill struggle – but the students are the ones with the time to argue about such things. People with families and kids usually have less energy and, crucially, time for it… so being on campus is the way forward – and on NO campus should these losers be allowed to dictate who is, or is not, allowed to speak…
One of the main issues is that anti-antifas have a lot to lose.
The typical antifa is the sort of basement-dwelling zygotic waste found on society’s fringes.
.
Complement
No Nazis on OUR streets!
https://youtu.be/N4juXv5pji0
As a sidenote, in the first video it is clear that one of the thugs is using a sling to hurl rocks at the police. A sling is easily capable of lethal force, it has been used as a weapon of war for thousands of years.
So, if they are using lethal force on you, it would be only reasonable to return the favor…
The latest flare up concerning the Rohingas started in 2012 when three Rohinga males raped and murdered a Buddhist girl. The native Burmese reacted accordingly and then the Rohingas started yelling victim. Today, every institution in which islam has invested money is pushing the fiction that the Rohingas are somehow being persecuted, while villifying Burmese Buddhists.
I am married to a Buddhist and many of my friends are Buddhists. Unlike islam, Buddhism really is a religion of peace and it takes a great deal of provocation to get a Buddhist to retaliate but muslims are past masters at provocation. If you want any proof of what I have said, read the teachings of the Buddha, then compare them to the contents of the islamic book of war, the koran.
I have just received my copy of Mohammed’s Koran by Peter McLoughlin and Tommy Robinson, Just getting started.
I give Aung San Suu Kyi tremendous credit for standing fast against international bleeding heart pressure to allow the Rohingya to run amok. I was certain that she would do a 180 on the issue once she was freed and became President.
The fact is that the Rohingya are a globalist/Saudi backed wedge meant to destroy the Burmese nation and provide lebensraum for the Muslim demographic disaster known as Bangladesh…a nation that needs to learn how to keep its pants on and its legs closed!
It’s not ‘bleeding heart’ pressure, but a concerted effort by Islam’s allies, the Western Establishment, or if you will, the Globalists, who put pressure on the sane folk who take to defending the defensible while rejecting out of hand, the indefensible.
thing is, it is very easy to deal with: do you counter protest all you like but rush the police once and bite the bullet. this nonsense stops at once
Another related question is: Why aren’t the mainstream media outlets doing their job and reporting accurately on these gangs of thugs – and their behaviour?
They yell about “fascism” yet they are the ones behaving like the “fascists” of old. (Mussolini’s blackshirts, Hitler’s brownshirts, etc.)
If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck …
Because the ‘mainstream’ media are all far left, and thus on the antifa side.
Why though? Seriously – why has the whole journalistic “profession” lost all interest in truth? In reporting objectively verifiable facts? About Islam? Its history, it’s teachings, etc? (For a start.)
The press has traditionally claimed to be a corrective measure – existing to draw attention to factual errors and fallacies coming from the mouths of politicians, & pointing out the problems that came about as a result of those politicians’ policies.
Not now. How on earth has this sorry state of affairs come to pass?
Today’s ‘journalist’ is ‘trained’ in a Marxist university that are rife throughout the West. They are trained in what not to report or write about and to denigrate at every opportunity those they see as Conservative, Fascist, Nationalist or Patriotic.
And the reporting on the many sins that over one hundred years of Communism has accumulated, is strictly VERBOTEN!
They put up those stories that support Marxist doctrine in a positive light and are well paid to do so from some very deep pockets indeed.
The goal of the lying media (fake news) is to dumb down those who still give the MSM some credibility through programs that have no connection at all to what is reality based within this world, and to propagandize political interference into the individual’s day to day life to the point that they become reliant on the ‘narrative’ that the MSM chooses to run with.
If you are still watching TV of any kind, I would suggest you stop doing so and take up reading some history and politics.
And Mao’s Red Guards.
This is not a “grass roots” organization of course. They are funded by the super rich via trust funds and charities. Edgefund.org.uk has list of organizations and how they organize protests and raise funds for these communist socialist cry-babies.
Utopian road to hell: William J. Murray
This guy is on the right lines. At least so far as how so many illiterate, half-educated thugs (and that includes the university “professors” who join in) can be recruited into this organisation. Tell them they are fighting for a future world that will be better than this one – a utopia that can be established right here on earth – and that they can be regarded as “virtuous” by their peers by fighting for that cause.
Anyone meandering around the amoral chaos that is the world today, who has never been taught how to think for themselves, and who is unable to read a long history book, will be up for that project! Meaning! Excitement! Doing something “good”!
All the things that the radical left have deprived the young of – they now say they can have! All they have to do is join the “cause” …
Little do they realise that they are not “creating” anything – certainly not a utopian society (a logical impossibility – a “metaphysical chimera”). They are engaged in destruction – nothing more!
Bottom line: They have been deceived into thinking that they are creating a new world. They are being used to destroy the old one.
What I fail to understand is why the authorities simply fail to do their jobs. How can it be tolerated that in the USA lawlessness as perpetrated by the antifas does not lead to mass arrests . It is not as if what is going to happen is unanticipated . 500 violent antifas expected to disrupt a legal event ? muster 1000 extra Riot squad /army reserves and make mass arrests . The antifas are in the minority ,take them off the streets 10 at a time . Let the Law Enforcement actually be as fascist like as the current crowd of mongrels pretends it already is !!
Now you can understand the kind of war that Trump is fighting.
You’re assuming the government is too naive to know the tactics needed to control Antifa. In fact, many governors and mayors are leftists, and specifically instruct the police to not interfere with Antifa tactics. This was notoriously the case in the Charlottesville rally to preserve the statues. The police literally acted as an Antifa auxiliary, and the prosecutors charged any of the rally-goers who tried to defend against the attackers. The governor of Virginia is a notorious leftist and Hillary ally.
The ease with which to police could control violence if allowed to was seen at the recent Berkeley free speech week. The police simply enforced the law against wearing masks in public. Several Antifa members with masks were arrested, charged with serious crimes, and the people on the streets without masks were meek as lambs, knowing they would be filmed and prosecuted for any criminal activity.
Thanks as always to all who contribute to this amazing blog. I don’t know how many of you have heard about the American Antifa “professor” Michael Isaacson, who up till recently was an actual “professor” at John Jay College of Criminal Justice here in NY. That is, until word got out that he was advocating killing cops on his social media and other platforms and he appeared on Tucker Carlson to try to defend himself.
It is worth watching the video of the show – I think it’s probably available all over- just to see what kind of a freak and [epithet] this highly paid “professor is in real life.
However- it gets even better. It turns out that Isaacson, who goes by the name of Fellow Space Cadet, is even freakier than we thought. According to this Daily Mail article, linked below, among other things, the Prof likes to be hog-tied (photo), get beat up, have things stuck up his anus, be smothered and also enjoys being water boarded.
So this is the state of culture in the Western World: a salaried college professor who advocates killing cops and violence against people who try to engage in free speech and who publishes his bizarre fetishes for all the world to see, is being paid to “educate” the youth of our country and is most likely going to sue to get his job back and win.
It’s hopeless.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4937276/Anti-fa-professor-tweeted-dead-cops-used-fetish-site.html
Being water boarded is really going too far …
There are all kinds of disappointments that came from central NY:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Muhammad_Knight
Of course, this so-called ‘progressive Muslim’s’ key book is titled, “Why I am a Salafi”
I think the ‘mad professor’ was appropriately vetted by that university for his role which then goes to show the kind of ‘thinking’ that now runs most of our universities.
We are one mag dump* from CW2. It will probably be a false-flag operation by an Antifa firing into a crowd of other Antifas, because, to anarcho-communists, “the ends justify the means.”
Right wing literature or other clues will be left at the shooter’s position.
The MSM will swallow the false flag 100% and amplify the propaganda message that the right-wing is now mass-murdering peaceful social justice advocates.
A cascade of violence will then erupt, and street protests and free assembly will be banned, so the conflict will go underground. And when CW2 erupts into full fury, it will resemble Rwanda times Bosnia.
*firing a full magazine of 20 or 30 rounds from a modern sporting rifle as quickly as the trigger can be pulled.
I bet we could all name 50 entities or causes that would benefit from Civil War II. And getting a communication network of all these together…we all know how to do that too. So duh, if it is not forbidden by some irresistible force or law of nature, Antifa will happen.
But so will anti-Antifa…..like GofV. Thank you.
Yesterday in the small city of Peterborough, Ontario, near where I live, a planned demonstration by a man identified by the media as a “white supremacist” failed to materialize. I know nothing about this person, Kevin Goudreau, or his organization, the Canadian Nationalist Front, but apparently the city had no choice but to issue a permit for the demonstration since its stated purpose was to protest the immigration policies of Prime Minister Trudeau, a reasonable sounding cause.
Mr. Goudreau failed to make an appearance but that didn’t stop the assembled crowds of hundreds of people from essentially braying for his blood. Billed by the media as anti-racist and supporting multiculturalism, they physically attacked someone they thought was a member of the Canadian Nationalist Front who made an appearance, they went on a vigilante-like manhunt through many city blocks when there was a reported sighting of one of the “Nazis,” they disobeyed police, hounded them, and protested loudly when one of their members was held in a police cruiser. All in all, disgusting behaviour — it’s sickening to watch the first video in this article (I could only watch about half of it, and didn’t view the second video):
https://www.mykawartha.com/news-story/7586553-video-violence-breaks-out-at-anti-racism-rally-in-peterborough/
The crowds can be seen breaking the law, wearing face masks, attempting to intimidate police, getting physically violent, and generally acting without restraint—yet, these are supposed to be the good guys?
Those are good questions you raise, Baron. We need to investigate what motivates these types, who is organizing them, and where they get their information. How did they learn, apparently, that their use of violence and intimidation can be justified if it’s in the cause of “anti-racism”?
The crowds seemed to be mostly younger people, but there are plenty of older people there too. Knowing Peterborough, I can guess that the young people likely get lots of anti-racism indoctrination from the local Trent University and Fleming College. The older people likely hear much from their church pulpits about Canada’s many failings in the race department. What are their thoughts when witnessing the violent tactics of their co-protesters?
The counter-protest was supposed to be “against the message of hate” — you could have fooled me.
And who is paying them — that’s the most significant. Because a lot of them ARE being paid. Follow the money.
Seems to me as soon as you see that demonstrators are wearing masks, you know the police have been ordered to stand down and permit violence. There’s no conceivable reason for demonstrators to wear masks unless they intend to commit violence or vandalism. It can easily be prevented by arresting mask-wearers.
Once the government is explicitly complicit in preventing public peaceful protest through violence, we’re becoming another country.
Yes, exactly. Money is one of the most powerful motivators for human behaviour. We must put our collective heads together to solve this one. As you ask, is there a central control structure? If someone or some entity is paying, it’s because there is a benefit conferred. Who benefits from all this organized chaos? The antifas themselves are pawns, but they don’t realize it yet.
Baron, you nailed it.
Who is paying them?
Soros and his many “charitable foundations”
Too many things are going wrong simultaneously for any solution to be effective. Antifa aren’t protesters or activists, they’re mercenaries hired influct violence for others’ leftist political ends. Thus habeas corpus should be suspended for Antifa. They’re like those who join ISIS. Antifa mercenaries (which is ALL of them) should thus be automatically arrested and incarcerated for 2 years in a Guantanamo-like facility. Once a citizen joins Antifa he should be treated as an enemy combatant mercenary terrorist.
You make the mistake of thinking that the problem in dealing with Antifa is a lack of tactics. The problem is really that the state and local governments where Antifa operates specifically approve of the Antifa violence. They could easily prevent the violence if governors like Terry McAuliffe wished to.
When Obama controlled the Justice Department, any city with a police force that didn’t have a black chief, which took effective measures against street crime, and effectively policed demonstrations could expect an expensive and invasive investigation by the Justice Department.
I watched an interesting documentary on the Communist roots of the Antifa.
Apparently the same people who were involved with the Marxist terrorist group”The Weather Underground” are both leading lights in the Anti-fa movement and Democrat activists.
Here’s a link to an undercover investigation by 2 guys who managed to infiltrate Anti-fa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=RmNz2jGzsDA
Slightly off topic, but an interesting (to me, at least) example of “steam engine time” was the invention of stereophonic sound, independently by Bell Labs in the US and EMI in Britain, c1930.
It wasn’t practical, except for film, until the invention of magnetic tape (Germany 1935, but not available outside the Reich until after WW2) and the LP.