Thilo Sarrazin, Part 2: “You Deny Reality, and Thus You Are Untrustworthy!”

Below is the second of four installments of the appearance by Thilo Sarrazin on the TV program “Talk in Hangar 7” (previously: Part 1).

Many thanks to MissPiggy for the translation, and to Vlad Tepes for the subtitling:

Video transcript:

00:00   I have to say, it appears that you did not in fact read my book.
00:06   I repeatedly state in my book, in various places, that when I speak
00:13   about groups and their statistics’ characteristics, this does not reflect on individuals.
00:17   Naturally there are Turkish engineers.
00:20   However, at the same time, 60 percent of those with a Turkish background
00:25   in Germany, despite being in Germany for 60 years,
00:31   have no professional qualifications. In fact, Muslims have
00:37   an unemployment rate far above average; they have poor academic
00:43   Achievement; they are more often criminal; they earn less because
00:49   they are less educated and it is widespread. This distinguishes
00:56   Muslims from all other immigrants. These differences are so great and so significant.
01:01   Mr. Sarrazin, if you start with numbers and
01:07   statistics, then I’ll feel sick. And I will be justified in feeling sick,
01:14   because facts have shown that you aren’t good with numbers or
01:21   that you are mistaken, or I would never, I would never… Excuse me —
01:25   I said you were an engineer. —I would never insinuate
01:29   that you lie, I will explain. In front of me here is a study of 70 pages
01:34   about false statements and false theories from you. This study
01:39   has the title, “Theories from Thilo Sarrazin on the Test Bench” from a political scientist.
01:42   Oh, you mean from Naika Foroutan!
01:45   —Allow me, please. —Naika Foroutan know nothing about statistics.
01:49   I would like to express my opinion so that the
01:52   audience… —Yes, but you don’t need to be loud. —Exactly, exactly,
01:56   but he’s interrupting me with this voice… —Naika Foroutan did not
02:01   disprove one thing of mine! —Allow me to come to the end. —OK.
02:06   You deliver figures which are not correct and have nothing to do
02:11   with reality. This lady got her figures from BAMF (Federal Office for Migration and Refugees)
02:15   and police headquarters.
02:19   You say 20 percent of criminals, but she asked directly from the source.
02:23   They told her that’s not true at all; it is only 7 percent.
02:27   If you name figures according to theological perspective you are
02:31   a (almost says “swine”) weak deliverer. So your delivery is not
02:34   accepted. So, leave us alone with your figures. I see Germany differently
02:39   from Mr. Sarrazin. —We aren’t going to have a statistics battle.
02:44   I would like to answer in peace. What you have there, from Mrs. Foroutan,
02:49   is from the year 2010, and she did not prove
02:54   any of my figures wrong from my book at that time. —I can name seven.
03:02   This book, this book is from the year 2018, and has
03:10   785 footnotes and the Association of German Book Critics has found four minimal
03:16   errors that have nothing to do with the topic.
03:22   The audience should check that. —The figures show the entire picture:
03:26   that the Muslims in professional integration,
03:29   in education, by income, in the job market and by criminality do far worse
03:33   when compared to the rest of the population, and
03:38   it is the same for ALL European countries where Muslims live — without exception,
03:44   and if you deny that than I am unable to believe
03:50   a word you say this evening because everything you say is untruthful.
03:54   We must at least have the facts in common; if you
03:58   deny the facts, then this discussion with you has ended, as far as I am concerned.
04:01   These facts are disputed. —If you deny
04:04   these facts… —Of course, I see Germany differently. —Reality is the way it is.
04:09   You contest these facts, Mr. Kamouss. —You deny reality,
04:15   and thus you are untrustworthy! —Gentlemen. —Thousands of people who participate actively.
04:20   Mrs. Wiesinger has been waiting the longest time to say something,
04:24   so let’s allow her to say something. We don’t need
04:28   a man-fight. —When you put two such men together, then you should
04:32   bear the consequences. —That’s why an Austrian women
04:36   will lead us back into the waters of dialogue. —Phew! I have to say, good.
04:42   Mr. Kamouss, I am going to leave the figures
04:48   and facts out of the way — leave them out. I don’t want to comment on that.
04:53   I would like to discuss where you stand when it comes to
04:58   these children that I teach and that many, many other teachers also teach —
05:03   that they are put under such pressure from their own families
05:09   NOT to be a part of the Western lifestyle… —I have myself. —I’m not finished yet. —Take your time.
05:18   They are encouraged very often, in almost every case,
05:23   by the local mosque where they spend all of their free time,
05:28   for their segregation, they are encouraged. —The parents are encouraged,
05:35   exactly. I appeal to you, as an imam:
05:43   what can be done to allow these children to integrate? We need to
05:49   provide more than just education; the fact is that if one participates
05:56   very little in this life, than there is less chance of acquiring knowledge.
06:01   What can you as an imam do, or what can a Muslim community do
06:07   to support the integration of these children? —Firstly, I appreciate you very much as a teacher who
06:13   bears the responsibility and has concern for these children.
06:17   I think it is great, and I understand very well,
06:20   and I welcome it very much. I have children who go to school as well,
06:27   and I visit many schools. I visit these schools and
06:35   the children for education, and I am frequently invited by teachers. I see
06:40   the situation differently from how you see it, it may be,
06:45   In what way? —Excuse me. —Yes, but in what way? —It could be that
06:49   in certain schools, in Berlin, in Neukölln, that
06:52   in certain schools it is as you describe, but that
06:57   is not the entire picture from German schools. —A large part.
07:02   I reluctantly interrupt you, but we have already seen that you have
07:07   a different reality and view on how the figures are distributed.
07:13   There is obviously disagreement that we won’t clear up here. —But I haven’t answered. —Yes,
07:17   if you let me, I am conducting this conversation. It is not about whether
07:23   it is different somewhere else. Every individual case is difficult enough
07:28   by itself, and Mrs. Wiesinger isn’t asking how it is predominantly.
07:31   She wants to know what can you do, how do you react and
07:34   what can an imam do? What can the Islamic community do? —As an imam.
07:38   Just a moment. —When it is, as it is — when Muslim youths
07:42   have the role of “clothing police”, going around threatening girls.
07:47   I have helped many times with such cases, and was invited
07:52   by teachers who have certain problematic students. For example,
07:56   they curse at the teacher for having a boyfriend or because she
08:00   eats pork. I have to say just one visit from me was enough.
08:09   I try to explain to the children, speak to their hearts, that this isn’t the
08:19   message of Islam and this does not belong to the teachings in Islam.
08:23   An imam can provide motivation through religion, but
08:28   the be-all and end-all is parenting. You talk about children who go to a mosque,
08:35   but most from these families aren’t practicing Muslims.
08:42   Mr. Sarrazin depicts all Muslims as if they were all Salafists or all radical.
08:48   A huge percentage of Muslims are not even practicing Muslims;
08:55   70% of Muslim women do not wear a head covering. However, Mr. Sarrazin gives another figure.
08:59   So, I was saying, when there are such problems, I help solve them.
09:03   Does your daughter wear a headscarf? —Mr. Kamouss,
09:08   I purposefully brought up the issue of the mosques, because of
09:12   what other teachers and myself have heard from the children.
09:16   For example, Muslim schoolchildren would love to participate in
09:20   school skiing trips. Just one day, longer isn’t possible anyway.
09:25   After being in the mosque, Muslims girls say that they are not allowed to go skiing,
09:31   because “if I go skiing I will lose my virginity.”
09:38   This of course leaves us shocked, so we ask, who tells you
09:43   something like that? The answer was, the hujja in the mosque,
09:49   how is that possible? —That is absurd that a hujja says something like that.
09:53   —Excuse me, but this was a very large mosque where
09:57   many schoolchildren go. —A large mosque in Vienna. —I am asking you,
10:01   how can something like this happen? It is not
10:05   an isolated incident. —First of all, the Muslim community in Austria,
10:10   where we are now, they work hard, and every single day in schools,
10:16   exactly as we do in Germany, to explain Islam to children and their families.
10:20   There is nothing wrong with skiing and there is no
10:24   religious reason not to, but it has more to do with cultural reasons
10:28   with these people who are a minority. For me personally, I allow
10:32   my children to do everything, travel, swimming, and they
10:36   participate in all these things, about which I have no objection.
10:40   However, there are certain areas where it is problematic, for example, sex education.
10:43   There it is possible that my children may see
10:46   something that does not reflect our values. —What for example? —I’ll tell you. What is seen
10:49   in sex education or in biology that does not line up with your values? —Let’s just establish
10:55   one thing first: I have nothing against explaining sexual function.
11:01   —It is part of the school curriculum. —Let me explain, I would like to speak
11:04   without being constantly interrupted, because
11:07   I lose my train of thought. So, I have no objection to sex education.
11:13   However, let me take one example, a project,
11:20   a pedagogical concept that has been developed, and is named School of Diversity,
11:24   in North Rhine-Westphalia. Teachers show films
11:29   of homosexual sex acts to 11-year-old and 12-year-old children. They are shown
11:35   films of groups of homos having sex, and see what they are doing
11:42   with each other. —Oh, Mr. Kamouss. —Please, allow me. Please allow these words to sink in.
11:45   Why are they able to sink in? Please allow me. —Mr. Kamouss,
11:48   we aren’t in a mosque so you don’t need to preach.
11:51   —I am not preaching; I am speaking normally. —I know Berlin well. This
11:55   is nowhere in Berlin. —I would like to finish. —Mrs. Wiesinger asked you
12:01   a specific question. —I am answering. —Not about special projects in North Rhine-Westphalia.
12:05   She asked me what I have against it. —Where is the problem with
12:09   sex education in schoolbooks? —I am telling you,
12:12   I am right in the middle of telling you my main point.
12:16   I have something against it, when 11- and 12-year-olds are
12:21   doing a school play that includes anal sex. Or when they watch films, go and have a look yourself.
12:28   There is nothing like that at any schools in Berlin.
12:32   This is the School of Diversity. This concept was rejected in Hamburg,
12:36   and not just there. I also have something against certain methods,
12:43   but not sex education. —Just a moment,
12:50   so what about a regular biology book that contains explanation of sexual function,
12:53   which is in all schools in Austria, what about that?
12:56   Is that a problem? —For me, as long as… —But it isn’t accepted
13:00   in schools in Vienna. —I have something against,
13:05   I’ll make it very clear. I have nothing against the explanation,
13:09   but when my child feels his modesty is violated, that
13:14   affects him deeply, ask the psychologists… —No one does things like that
13:18   in sex education. —Why do you always interrupt me!?
13:21   Because that is against the law and does not happen in normal sex education.
13:24   Interrupting is not a part of normal healthy communication. —Mr. Kamouss,
13:27   a specific question, and I really need you to stop screaming because it is unpleasant.
13:30   —But if he always interrupts me? —It is very unpleasant; you are screaming. —But if he interrupts?
13:33   —You are screaming, it is not good. —You are making accusation that are
13:37   completely nonsensical. —What exactly violates your child
13:41   in a ordinary biology book in Germany or in Austria?
13:45   When my child has to watch a film showing the sexual practices
13:50   of homosexuals having group sex, that violates my child and
13:55   disturbs his personality. —This does not exist anywhere.
14:00   —You should find out, go have a look. It is called School of Diversity.
14:04   It doesn’t exist in Berlin. —It exists in North Rhine-Westphalia.
14:08   So, Mr. Kamouss you are familiar with — I assume because
14:12   you visit many schools — the absolutely ordinary biology
14:16   books used in Austria for ages 11 to 14. Do you have a problem
14:23   with those? I keep saying the same thing. I don’t have
14:30   anything against these biology books, as long as a child’s decency isn’t violated.
14:34   What does that mean? Does it mean
14:37   they can see a naked penis or not? Excuse me, but this is really ridiculous,
14:42   what you are saying. —When foreplay is being showed…
14:47   Sex involves exposing modesty. —…and it is shown how people
14:51   perform sex acts. This violates the modesty of my children.
14:54   It exists in North Rhine-Westphalia… —Mr. Kamouss! —It exists in North Rhine-Westphalia.
14:59   You can look up School of Diversity.
15:04   OK, we’ve heard you say it ten times now. It was a very specific question:
15:07   if a biology book… —I don’t have a problem with that.
15:10   You are upset that I answer your questions, then you answer before
15:14   I am finished asking. When a naked penis is shown,
15:19   is that a violation of modesty? For me, and not just for me, but for Christians,
15:23   and Jews. —No, no, no, no. —It is a relatively easy
15:28   yes-or-no question, isn’t it? —If I see it as biology then I don’t have
15:32   a problem with it. I have a problem when the boundaries are
15:36   violated. And that’s why I gave these examples. —No, the boundaries
15:39   aren’t being violated. —I have no problem
15:42   with a vagina, but in kindergarten? It is being taught there, by the way,
15:49   I have gathered here all the data. With lists of books. Books that
15:56   criticize this sex education being taught in kindergarten. —This is senseless.
15:59   I thought, excuse me, Mr. Fleischhacker, but I
16:02   thought we came here to answer the question of this show, “How far can we go
16:08   when criticizing Islam?” —We can do that right now.
16:15   And as an introduction, something that will please you, we are going to
16:19   watch some critical reactions to Thilo Sarrazin’s newest book.

13 thoughts on “Thilo Sarrazin, Part 2: “You Deny Reality, and Thus You Are Untrustworthy!”

  1. Just look at this Arab like He try interrupt everybody, became a angry and aggressive, disgusting just even think how many of similar savages Merkel importing to this dying country..

  2. Photo of a human organ is violation of modesty but gang raping a 6 month old baby is not? Reporters are extremely weak. They fail to control the show and have no intention to ask right questions. Bunch of liberals.

  3. Well it takes two to tango. He has a point and a serious one. Children do not need to know, see or be shown, what homosexuals do that makes them homosexual. Some of the points he makes would have been made 60 years ago by the Catholic church.

    How would Mr.Sarrazin know what goes on in schools? Why are some parents in the US homeschooling their kids?

    It is true, western culture is becoming more and more decadent and godless. Girls even in my rural area look often like sluts. I am not saying this to support an Imam, I say that as a disillusioned Christian. Of course I do not expect my comment to be shown. Think of the number of unwed mothers in this country.

    • I am myself surprised dimphhhhnnaaaa let you publish your POV.They usually are against all that have different opinions.Remember she has “bad eyes” .Oh yes this will not be published but it is a message for them.

      • I have to say I have no idea what you’re talking about. I often disagree (at least partially) with the website’s narrative, yet I’ve never ever had any problems with getting my comments published (as far as I’m aware of, and I usually do come back to check if anyone replied, so I know my comments were published).

        Only one time my comment was slightly censored due to use of bad language. In my experience, this website does allow for discussion and sometimes longwinded (civilised) discussions between conservatives and liberals happen (even though the majority of the readers here are conservative, of course). So if you have any difficulties getting your comments published, it might be your writing generally simply doesn’t meet the required standards.

    • He may know! His wife is or was ( retired) an elementary school teacher and published a book about it.

    • So you agree with the imam that it is wrong to show children how sexuality works (whether it is between a man and a woman or two men or two women)? Do you also agree it is ok to have sex with 10-11 years old girls then? It’s laughable anyone would agree with the imam when he claims showing sex to 10-11 years old children is wrong, yet he himself preaches for a religion that allows children of that age (especially girls) to have sex and even birth children.

      • Yes I agree with the imam on showing/teaching schoolchildren sex practices of homosexuals. Children should not be exposed to everything. They are children.

        It is quite farfetched to jump to the conclusion that I would therefore agree to child marriage.

        You can (rightly) point out the hypocrisy of the imam concerning sex ed. on one hand, and child marriage on the other. That has nothing to do with me.

        • I disagree.
          1) Teaching children about sex is the best way of preventing teenage pregnancies and STDs. Of course not in the way the imam described, but again, that sounded like a very extreme case in a smaller town elsewhere, not the general practise in sex ed. My class had it’s first sex ed when we were 9. The teacher sat down with us during a school trip, boys and girls separately, and within a few minutes basically described why there are biological differences between boys and girls and gave us a rough idea about how babies are made (that girls have ovaries that produce eggs and boys have testicles producing sperm), she asked us if we know how sperm (cells, not the whole ejaculation thing) looks like. I believe she also briefly mentioned we shouldn’t allow anyone to touch us like that if we didn’t want to. After that we didn’t have sex ed until we were 12, at which point every semester a couple of young ladies would sit down with us, without a teacher (which made the whole thing much more relaxed), and teach us about things we might get exposed to during puberty (sex, drugs,…) and how to prevent bad things happening. We considered it really funny that we (boys) learned how to put on a condom properly on a carrot. On another ocasion they would give us (again every semester) a small package with a condom, some lube, tampons or a pad, this calendar thingy women use to note their cycle, and a booklet about puberty (with photos of boys and girls at different stages of puberty). And fair enough nobody from us roughly 40 kids had unwanted pregnancies or drug problems. Only one of our classmates became a junky, the rest of us either never touched any drugs or didn’t go past marihuana. I know, because even today a bunch of us still meet regularly, bump into eachother on the street or hear-tell about the rest. So in my opinion sex ed is extremely important and good.
          2) Similarity teaching children that homosexuality exists isn’t a bad thing. Again, I’m not talking about convincing the children they are gay, like some SJWs might want to, I’m talking about making them aware there are people who are interested in the same sex and it’s not a bad thing. There’s a difference between normal homosexuals and snowflake inviduals that like to expose themselves, btw. Why is it important? Because as a society we ensure equal rights for homosexuals and as such it’s better if people are made aware of it at an age where they will understand easier. It’s also a good way to prevent mental issues in homosexuals who might go through their little personal Hell if they hit puberty and are interested in the same sex and think there’s something wrong with them. If the teacher points out this group is very small and sometimes, especially during puberty, you might be infatuated with a person of the same sex, but that doesn’t neccessarily mean you are gay, then there’s absolutely no harm that can be done with that information. Obviously there’s no reason to tell them how gay or lesbian sex works, but that’s not the norm in education. I remember when I was 12 or 13 we read a newspaper article about a guy that transitioned to a woman and nobody in class thought it was weird, we were more like “wow that can be done? That’s pretty cool! And great that person is happy now!” Things like that. It’s the state’s role to ensure children (or anyone) can’t be abused into thinking they are the opposite sex, but there’s nothing wrong with showing children such cases exist. Again, no reason to go graphic with details on how exactly it’s done or how the scars look (which I’ve seen people on tumblr do and in my opinion that harms transsexual people far more than the public not knowing about them at all, but ah well…), but no sane teacher would go into such detail in the first place.
          3) History has shown us that giving even a tiny bit of maneuver space to muslims eventually grows into a nasty tumor for society. In that light it’s a must we deny any of their claims, rather than navigate through their hypocrisy. At which point it isn’t farfetched at all to question the beliefs of a person that sides with them, or to point out their own hypocrisy, which is all I did.

          • Thank you, that was an interesting example of how basic sex education can have a beneficial effect.

            It’s surely better that all these matters are dealt with in a factual way before children later encounter them in their personal lives.

  4. In a sense you gotta love the imam, anything that doesn’t fit his worldview doesn’t exist and you are wrong, because he has this one extreme example from a very rural area that happened at some point somewhere in history and that weights more than the other 90% of cases happening throughout the world. The icing on the cake is his absolute inability to answer simple questions. This video is a hidden unintended comedy gem!

    • Totally agree with your comments & video synopsis! Like the article byline states from Thilo Sarrazin to quarrelsome imam: “You deny reality and thus are untrustworthy!”. Hostile imam could not or would not acknowledge 2018 statistical data found in Thilo’s book that was reviewed by the Deutschland government for factual validity. Only four small errors were found in the book that has nothing to do with Islam, Muslims, etc. Muslim Turks have been living in Germany over 60 years. Statistical data shows they are less educated, have higher crime & unemployment rates and hold very few professional degrees. These are the undisputable facts. Doesn’t take a genius to see that Deutschland will become more violent, divisive, and less integrated as these statistics increase!

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