Thilo Sarrazin, Part 1: “Islam is Incompatible With Political and Religious Freedom”

Thilo Sarrazin is a Social Democrat and former board member of the Bundesbank who caused a firestorm in Germany back in 2010 with his book Deutschland schafft sich ab, “Germany abolishes itself”. In his book Mr. Sarrazin gathered statistical data about Muslim immigration into Germany and demonstrated the irreparable harm it was doing to the country, not least by genetically lowering the IQ of the population. He and his book were repudiated by the (leftist) establishment, and he was cast into the Outer Darkness to keep company with racists, xenophobes, Nazis, etc.

The following video is the first of four parts from a recent appearance by Thilo Sarrazin on a television discussion program called “Talk in Hangar 7”. Mr. Sarrazin has a new book out, and was there to discuss it. An Austrian teacher named Susanne Wiesinger, who has also written a book, was a fellow guest on the panel. As counterpoint, an imam named Abdul Adhim Kamouss was there to present his own point of view.

Many thanks to MissPiggy for the translation, and to Vlad Tepes for the subtitling:

Video transcript:

00:00   Talk in Hangar 7
00:10   Good evening and welcome to Talk in Hangar 7. Today with a small group that includes two authors,
00:16   each has written books about the influence of conservative Islam which have made the bestseller list.
00:21   Both of these authors, although they come to different conclusions, have each earned very much praise and criticism.
00:28   Welcome Susanne Wiesinger. You are a teacher in Vienna-Favoriten and the author of the book
00:33   “Culture Clash in the Class Room”. Good evening. I also welcome Thilo Sarrazin. You were, for many years,
00:39   SPD Finance Senator in Berlin and a Board Member of the German Federal Bank. And the last few years a quite controversial
00:43   bestselling author. Just a few weeks ago your most recent book was released, entitled “Hostile Takeover”, in which you describe
00:49   a very gloomy picture of the European future as a result of Islamization.
00:55   I also welcome Abdul Adhim Kamouss. You were considered to be a Salafist preacher for many years and
01:01   were under investigation by interior intelligence authorities and had contact with ISIS fighters, but now you are fighting for
01:07   a liberal Islam. You have also written a book entitled “To Whom does Islam belong?” Mr. Sarrazin, if you will, you became
01:17   a public intellectual figure in 2010 with your book, “Germany Eradicates itself”. It was also characterized by a rather
01:26   dystopian forecast. Would you say now, eight years later, that Germany has come closer to eradicating itself?
01:34   Yes, …it is happening far worse than I described it at the time. I never said that would happen the next day, but that it would be a
01:46   process. I also described the causes, and when I compare that with what has actually happened in the last eight years, I have to say
01:58   all the trends that I described in my book have materialized, except they are occurring significantly more disadvantageously
02:04   than I described. —You describe this development in the introduction of your newest book. There you also describe exactly the future
02:10   development and in comparison with your last book, concentrate on the role that Islam plays in this development.
02:17   Where do you see the connections in these scenarios? What do you fear the most? —Yes, now I have to try to summarize
02:30   500 pages for you in a few sentences. I will do my best. Ultimately, it is clear that Muslims, due to the influence of Islam, as a whole
02:42   do not integrate very well and for the most part, do not accept our liberal values. Simultaneously, because of, in particular,
02:51   the role of women for them. These women have significantly more children compared to others and as a result their numbers
03:06   and proportion increase. At the same time, we can see by all indicators of integration, criminality, education, labor market
03:17   participation, radical attitudes show a poor performance by Muslims when compared to other migration groups.
03:27   They stand, as a whole, at a considerable distance from our society, which is growing. In order to see in which direction this develops
03:37   in the future, we need only to look at the development in the Islamic world in general. Unfortunately, one will find that in the entirety
03:43   of Islamic history and in the entire Islamic present, there is not one single country where the Muslims have the majority that other
03:52   groups can live in freedom and are valued as equals. This leads me to say, until I have proof of the contrary, Islam is incompatible
04:06   with political and religious freedom. This is very dangerous, if we consider that Muslims will be the majority within the next two
04:15   to three generations. It is a process that will take several years. —That was a quick run through your book. —Yes. —Mrs. Wiesinger, you
04:23   describe in your book, “Culture Clash in the Classroom” the problems in schools in socially disadvantaged areas in
04:30   Vienna. You teach at one of these schools. You deal with the youngest generation, on average the third generation immigrants.
04:40   Do you see the developments in your surroundings, the same as Mr. Sarrazin describes, but in a wider context? —I see the
04:48   developments as thoroughly alarming, otherwise I would have never written this book. —But are you equally pessimistic?
04:57   —No. I was just about to add that. I’m by no means pessimistic, otherwise I wouldn’t have gone public. I believe it is possible
05:10   to turn things around as a society as a whole and within the Muslim community. However, the conversation needs to start.
05:22   We shouldn’t split up into camps, especially for the society at large. Mr. Sarrazin, right from the beginning, I had the impression
05:33   from your books and through your interviews that your tendency is to be divisive rather than to bring people together.
05:43   And that’s not what I wanted to do with my book. I wanted to draw attention to the problems, to name them and not sweep
05:53   them under the rug. Exercise criticism of the governments, even the social democrats —that we share in common. However,
06:02   my desire was not to be divisive, exactly the opposite. —Do you want to divide? —No, I consider it, if I may, an obscure term —the
06:14   truth is never divisive. And those who say they do not want to cause division, do not want to see the truth in its entirety. At no
06:23   place in my entire book do I cause division and the tone is restrained. I give the facts, I analyze them and make prognoses
06:31   and evaluate. There is nothing divisive, but it is certainly not very optimistic. I understand that you, being a teacher, think
06:40   differently. My wife is also a teacher. Teachers have another function. I must analyze a sociology, I must analyze a religion,
06:49   I need to make prognoses. You must see children individually and see what you are able to make out of them. That is a
06:59   totally different aspect which I absolutely respect and support. And in that respect, you must have a certain optimism for
07:06   individual cases and their development. —Sure, sure. —That is your function as teacher. —An optimism for the individual
07:12   that can become a greater all-encompassing order. —I think Mr. Sarrazin, if one writes a book that becomes a bestseller
07:21   like yours and is exposed to the public, as you have been and for me partially as well, then we have an obligation.
07:30   —I have exercised my —To offer solutions. —I did that. —And to bring people together and not to push them further apart. —I have
07:40   the obligation to explain the situation as it is. If you are a doctor and you have an unfortunate diagnosis for a patient,
07:48   the first thing you need to explain is the diagnosis. The solutions the doctor offers must be within the realm of factual possibilities.
07:56   —I agree and that’s what I want with my book. —In my book I offer ways in which things can be done, absolutely, in the last chapter,
08:05   very definite and very clear. I believe this is the way things should go, but what the result will be, they will come about. On the whole
08:15   I am not very optimistic. Just like a doctor administers with all his ability, but at the same time must say, “Well, your chances
08:23   are bad, but I will do what I can.” And I am operating in this sense. —Let us for a moment stay with this breakdown in which you both
08:33   agree. The problem must diagnosed, and the doctor shouldn’t sugarcoat the seriousness of the diagnoses. —I didn’t want that
08:39   either. No sugar coat. —One has to figure out what can be done. And we should try to stay in this order during our conversation,
08:46   with the diagnoses, because there, you both aren’t too far apart. At least that is my impression and very interesting.
08:52   One could make the connection from what Mr. Sarrazin wrote to the train of thought from Michel Houellebecq’s novel “Submission”,
08:58   which a term that you also used in your book. —Yes, yes. —Let’s stay there for a moment. What do you mean with submission?
09:05   —I meant submission related to the school, that we must adapt to the needs and the lifestyle of these children. This is true,
09:22   it is a fact. —And you shouldn’t? —We shouldn’t, we are making a huge mistake. We adapt to them out of a fake tolerance,
09:34   sometimes out of convenience and out of fear. —Fear of what? On the one hand fear of loss of respect in the classroom and partially
09:51   due to fear of our superiors accusing us of racism. —They just don’t see what is happening. When does this submission happen
10:04   specifically? —Specifically in certain educational content, in biology, in music, drawing, and sport above all — it is just left out.
10:18   Further, it happens especially with younger female teachers, they must pay attention to what they wear. They no longer dress
10:28   as young women in the West do. —That is catastrophic. —That IS catastrophic, and that is what I wanted to point out.
10:36   This is going in the wrong direction. That’s absolutely clear. I agree with you fully Mr. Sarrazin,
10:42   something must be done against it. —You see, that is even harder than what I wrote because I go by statistic
10:53   affirming observable facts. And as far as what you report, from real life experiences —it is far more frightening. —It is!
10:59   —The headscarf mentality is already being transferred to female Austrian teachers. The most frightening is, for me as a teacher,
11:07   is how these children, these Muslim children suffer. This would address you, in my opinion, these children suffer terribly. They are
11:21   so torn between their world—their family, the mosque, their faith —and our Western world. They actually want to live as we do, they
11:33   want to be a part of it, of our lives and to develop. —Do you not want them to? —Well, there were several topics discussed here
11:45   and I have my own perspective, I’ll start with… —May I just ask you a question? We just establish some observations. Would you
11:58   agree with these observations? Would you say, I see this as well? —The observations from Mr. Sarrazin I do not accept.
12:08   Nor can I understand them. —Have you read my book? —Mr. Sarrazin speaks about Muslims that I don’t know.
12:17   —But you know my statistics? —I was listening the entire time and would now like to give my opinion. —Please do.
12:27   —He speaks about a group, I have no idea what he is seeing. He see everything black, everything dark.
12:35   He has his own tailored version of Islam and has imagined some Islamic group in his world. I see the Muslims in Germany,
12:45   in Austria, but mainly in Germany —I see them differently. I see in front of my eyes thousands upon thousands
12:54   of academic scholars, teachers, IT specialists, engineers, chemists, physicists, structural engineers
13:09   and the list goes on. I see in my eyes, excuse me, I am trying to show the actual picture. I see in my eyes thousands upon
13:21   thousands of loyal employees who are taxpayers in Germany. Produce traders that provide us with food. I see hairdressers
13:38   that make us look good. I see in my eyes people from different places. I see bus drivers and many more in a variety of areas.
13:53   —Not too long please. —I am reciting this list on purpose so that you can see the distribution exactly. In Germany Muslims are
14:03   present everywhere, in all sectors. Not like Mr. Sarrazin depicts it, he depicts us as a burden, we are welfare recipients, we are
14:16   a threat, we are, we are. Then he tries to sell that in a time where the mood is gladly receptive. That’s why I see his version,
14:29   that he has tailor made is only a part of his delusional world. —Could it be that your version is only from your world? —Well,
14:40   I see what I experience in Germany. I myself am an academic person and go to universities. I see everywhere, in all disciplines
14:51   there are Muslims who are active and work in research, in industry. That’s what I see. Why must we focus our view just
15:03   on this group that Mr. Sarrazin sees on the Sonnenallee (Berlin Clans)? Or on Karl Marx Street? That’s not Germany.
15:09   —Maybe because it is also a part of Germany? —It is a part, and I don’t deny it. I disown the fact that focus is only placed
15:17   there and then this version is sold as representing Arabs and Turks. —Would you like to react? —Yes.

8 thoughts on “Thilo Sarrazin, Part 1: “Islam is Incompatible With Political and Religious Freedom”

  1. The fact that the moderator did not bat and eye when Sarrazin said there would be a Muslim majority in 2 to 3 generations, esp. as he prefaced his remarks that the last 8 years had shown him that things were moving more quickly than he had predicted, says to me there is little hope for Germany to wake up.

  2. It seems pretty familiar. Sarrazin objectively predicts the overwhelming influence of Islam on Germany and its future, stressing the incompatibility of Islam with the West. Unfortunately, the Western values seem to be only represented in the East, like Hungary.

    By the way, the New York Times did a hit piece on Hungary, using their squeezing of Soros university as an opportunity to claim that Hungary is suppressing human rights and free speech.

    Anyway, I thought Suzanne Wiesinger would take a typical female position of compromise and playing down differences, but she surprised me by admitting the problem. She thinks the Muslim children need sympathy and help, but that the Muslim norms are overtaking the school system. She wanted to find a solution, which is commendable, but how do you solve the problem of an overwhelming number of people coming into your country refusing to assimilate or value your values?

    The imam was more than typical. I think it’s a script these guys have: “I used to be an ISIS supporter, but I’m a moderate now, so you can trust me. And you can take my word for it that the vast majority of Muslims are just like me (true) and you (not so true)”.

    Another tidbit: the Human Rights court ruling against Elizabeth Sabbaditch Wolff was reported on by Fox News, Tucker Carlson, but weirdly, specifically declined to make her name public. I guess the sentiment of wanting to protect her is admirable, but her name is not even close to being secret or confidential.

    • Good you mention the ” script”:
      Bring out allegations with no real background, so you can not prove them wrong, logically.
      Dodge when the bullets fly is an ancient muslim tactic in war, then invite the ennemy for dinner of reconciliation and then kill him.
      An example from everyday life: you stroll through a bazar in a muslim country, a guy comes out of nowhere:” Hi where are you from?… Oh,I have a brother who… ” and so on. Me: I am from Hungaria( they never speak a word hungarian and no brother will live there.Then you blink a friendly eye saying” I got you, you lying bastard” and go your way. But do not take bets about their knowledge of hungarian. I had a tour guide once who gave his infos in fluent german all the tour. When I asked him a simple question( not to answer with yes or no) he shook his head and said yes.He did not understand one word of what I said. Just to illustrate what they are capable of.

    • Yes, it is indeed a script. A strategic script. The imam’s tactical modus operandi is also a very specific script:

      1) In response to facts laid out in Sarrazin’s book, find a contra-review and cite it to undermine the legitimacy of Sarrazin – pay no attention whatsoever to the latter stating that the contra-review was based on (dubious) 2010 stats, mine on 2018 stats;

      2) Run the ‘I see Muslim professionals and workers everywhere’ instead of responding to the welfare dependency and crime statistics;

      3) Take a single (very alarming) example of an aspect of the Western education system and hammer it over and over again without addressing the bigger picture of (undeniable) Muslim cultural separatism in the West.

      It is all so depressingly predictable.

  3. AFD, is the only hope , nobody else , thus Greens , CDU, SPD , Linke , FDP and on and on , will finished Germany very quickly if no action will be taken like NOW !!!

  4. What the Muslim (an Imam?) says, ist not entirely wrong. Of course there are Muslims in Germany who have jobs (btw, who says that is not the case?) and of course many of them are academics. But well integrated, even assimilated Muslims are far from being the majority, so if anyone in this discussion is “delusional”, it’s certainly not Sarrazin.

    • The problem is, with “moderate” Muslims, there is a disconnect. The core doctrines of Islam specify that Islam should take over any non-Islamic state, and that it is the duty of all Muslims to assist in this endeavor. All Muslims are also mandated to follow sharia law.

      So, how can you have a pious Muslim who is “moderate” or “assimilated”? If they are assimilated enough, they are not Muslims. From a strictly power point of view, if you have a very small Muslim population, your police and security may have enough control that a Muslim can exist in this unstable state without undue risk to himself. But, as soon as you get in enough Muslims to stress the police protections, the “moderate” Muslims incur great risks. Since they maintain their Muslim identity anyway, I don’t see where it would take much to push them back on the sharia wagon.

  5. I wonder if it’s impossible for muslims to speak without shouting propaganda? The other two present raw facts, even if they don’t disagree on everything, and they discuss. The muslim guy shouts (talks very loudly, to say the least), exclaims how great and amazing muslims are and how we should ignore the supposed minority of muslim criminals, completely ignores asked questions and is incapable of a discussion.

    I haven’t read the book either (though I am interested now), but if it simply works with statistics, then every moderately intelligent person should be capable of discerning between objective numbers and a (comparatively small) clear-cut group. Of course, university students will be generally more well behaved than construction workers or anyone from lower standing social groups (regardless of race or religion in this case). We don’t even need to go to the “muslims behave differently depending on the % they make up in a society” problem, because their victimhood mentality and reasoning of excuses never changes, even if they make up less than 1% of the population, even if they are few and far between, they will act differently towards the majority and inside their homes or when they meet other muslims. It’s not that hard to understand, I really do not know why some people struggle with it so much.

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