Afghan Culture-Enricher in Münster Acquitted of Manslaughter — Acted in Self-Defense

A “New German” from Afghanistan was acquitted of manslaughter in a courtroom in the German city of Münster because the judges ruled he had acted in self-defense. Here’s a snip from the report in The Daily Mail (hat tip Reader from Chicago):

An Afghan who stabbed a refugee aid worker to death in Germany has walked free from court after judges ruled he had acted in self-defence.

The 18-year-old defendant, named as Seyed M., was accused of manslaughter after 20-year-old Jose M. died in a park in Ochtrup, north-west Germany, last May in a row about a girl.

Prosecutors at the court in Münster had demanded a three-year jail sentence but judges ruled Seyed had been defending himself, Bild reported.

The court heard Jose had put the Afghan in a headlock and punched him in the face, and that Seyed had initially tried to defend himself more ‘mildly’ with a glass bottle.

What the Mail doesn’t mention is that the defendant’s act of “self-defense” included stabbing his victim six times in the heart.

The victim and his entire family came to Germany from Portugal. In the video below from Bild, the dead boy’s mother is interviewed during and after her courtroom ordeal.

Many thanks to MissPiggy for the translation, and to Vlad Tepes for the subtitling:

Video transcript:

00:05   Coming here was difficult. More difficult than his funeral.
00:13   Juvenile criminal district court Münster
00:18   Maria M. must look the alleged murderer of her son in the eyes.
00:26   The Afghan refugee Sayed M. (18) reportedly killed José M. (20) with a knife.
00:33   The student José M. had been involved in refugee aid, wanted to help.
00:37   According to the indictment, Sayed, who came to Germany in 2015, is said to have stalked a girl.
00:43   The victim wanted Sayed M. to stop harassing the girl and paid for it with his life.
00:57   Not good. I had to get up early and couldn’t sleep. I’m scared, too. Coming here was difficult.
01:07   Very difficult. I must admit, it was worse than when I buried him.
01:15   I also try to prepare to see him, when he comes in. Then the defence lawyer came, and suddenly
01:23   he comes in and then… the rage hit me. To see such a little man there but who acts so big.
01:33   He acted so awkward, and had this insolence about him. Looking everyone in the eye.
01:40   And then his eyes fastened on me. He had a look without emotion, without remorse. Without…
01:47   and he looked down when something was said that he supposedly hadn’t — couldn’t have — done.
01:53   Nothing. There was no movement. And then he looked over at the bench where the children
01:59   were sitting and then I just asked myself: “What is he thinking? what is he thinking now?”
02:16   So I can’t comprehend how the judge can simply say to us that we should consider his childhood.
02:22   Did anyone ask how ours was? Did anyone ask me how my childhood was?
02:26   Or that of MY children? Not even a “How are you?” So he had a difficult childhood; we did too!
02:30   I came to Germany in 2004 with my husband and my son. All we had was four suitcases.
02:34   Four suitcases. Everything we have now, a house, we have a small business — we worked for.
02:40   No one gave us anything. Nothing. We worked hard from morning till night.
02:48   My son was killed. Stabbed in the heart six times, just like it says. My son was taken from me.
02:57   By just the way he looked at us. He wanted it and he’ll do it again. He’s only 18.
03:03   What’s he going to get, four to five years maybe? He will certainly not get any more. The poor boy.
03:08   We have to live with that. Every night I sit there thinking, “Where is he?” He is not there.
03:15   He took my son away from me because he wanted to protect someone? He just wanted
03:19   to help a girl, he’s always like that. Was always like that. He’s not anymore, but he was like that.
03:25   What doesn’t the judge say anything about that? Why? Why?
03:31   He’s still getting a sentence reduction? Isn’t it enough that he’s a refugee, and already got one?
03:36   Even more? What reduction do we get? None. What reduction? Do my daughters get one too?
03:42   They are eleven and thirteen. None. None.
04:03   I was expecting that he would at least simply try to say, “I’m sorry, I did not want it,
04:07   of course I had a knife because maybe, out of fear, but I did not want to.”
04:13   I’m Catholic, really Catholic. I believe in God and that I’ll see him again, but I can’t forgive this.
04:30   At his funeral at the Marien Church it was so full. All the way in the back, people were standing.
04:35   Unbelievable how many people were there. And that his friends from school, from his university
04:41   and even his high school are there. Yes, even though that was two to three years ago. And they are
04:48   still there for him. That they even come. That they stand by us. Friends we’ve known for
04:53   a long time and those that I have just met. They stand with and tell us, we are there. We can’t
04:59   do anything, we can’t take your pain, but we are there. That was wonderful.

17 thoughts on “Afghan Culture-Enricher in Münster Acquitted of Manslaughter — Acted in Self-Defense

  1. Who r these crooked judges?? This is just another sickening part of merkels stasi commie nazi regime, these so called judges are traitor to all decent people, this afghan killer should be locked up for life, but commie judges set killer free, to kill again in germany!!!

    Find the addresses of these judges, there names, they must be put on the priority list for capture as soon as the uprising begins, the people must capture these traitors and give to them hangmans rope or life in solitary confinement with hard labour!!!

    I hate merkel, i hate the german traitors who ruined germany.

    Let the war start, lets go after these traitors and we must get revenge to them all!!!

  2. ” …………… after 20-year-old Jose M. died in a park in Ochtrup ………?” My granparents died. My parents died.

    Died? What did he die of? My grandparents died. My parents died. Jose M. was *killed* (stabbed to death).

    Btw, doesn’t Jose have a family name? (irony, folks, irony). What’s wrong with these Germans?

    • His name was José Miranda – his family came from Portugal to Germany as guest workers decades ago. What ist wrong with us Germans can’t be explained in a few sentences. On the other hand, I read things here on GoV and elsewhere that make me think it’s very much the wrong question. The right one would be: What is wrong with most of the western world?

      • You ask the right question. I don’t like the claim that somehow Germany is more at fault than any other Western nation is for this mess.

        This ‘thing’ with the West… It’s coordinated, surely. But in spite of the great power that these coordinators have, increasingly things are not going the way they want. The Western establishment is concerned only with maintaining its position of authority and it will do *anything* to aid the status quo. *Anything* from cheating at elections to assassination – nothing is off the table. But from now on, the tide of history runs against it and there’s nothing that can be done about it.

        • *What ist wrong with us Germans can’t be explained in a few sentences. On the other hand, I read things here on GoV and elsewhere that make me think it’s very much the wrong question. The right one would be: What is wrong with most of the western world?*

          Points taken, Lavinia. Shockingly light sentences and discrimination against locals as regards sentencing and looking for excuses to lessen offenders’ culpability are not unique to Germany. Sweden might well be worse and British judges sometimes pass sentences which shock the public because they are so light. (In a sane society, how can it be, for example, that with a straight face, defence counsel can present drink or drugs as an excuse for offending?) In Britain, however, they’re not shy about publishing full-face photos of convicted criminals. In Sweden recently, national TV refused to show police footage of robbers… something about “prejudice”. The wanted people weren’t ethnic Swedes, it’s superfluous to say.

          As to “what is wrong with us Germans” not being explicable in a few sentences, well, yes, Germany is a special case. I found that Rolf Peter Sieferle in “Finis Germania” has much of great interest to say about this, and Douglas Murray, in “The Strange Death of Europe” (also available in German) has chapters about Guilt and “Tiredness”. I know German Gutmenschen whose eyes and ears are terminally (a key word, as in “terminal illness”) impossible to open. I don’t even try. As an ethnic European (white, Christian) I have been unfairly discriminated against by a particular couple (Super-Gutmenschen) in a matter involving some of their pets. It didn’t feel too good. Discrimination never does.

          • *After two-and-a-half days of deliberations, an Old Bailey jury found Donald Davies and Mukeh Kawa, both 21, from Colindale, north London, guilty of murder. The pair were jailed for life with a minimum of 26 years* (part of a report from a UK murder trial).


            My reaction was: it should, for Davies and Kawa, have happened in Germany. “Donald D. and Mukeh K……… jailed for six (??) years.”

            Germany doesn’t like punishing wrongdoers – unless they’re white and poor, of course, then it’s 2,000 (two thousand) Euros for collecting bottles in München railway station, several hundred for scavenging in a dumper for food, or nine months’ jail for stealing food from a shop.

            Oh Germany, your government is bringing in hundreds of thousands of “refugees” etc. and ruining the lives of those “who happen to have lived there for longer”. You, though, stand by and let it happen. You’re commiting suicide.

  3. “I was expecting that he would at least simply try to say, “I’m sorry, I did not want it,
    of course I had a knife because maybe, out of fear, but I did not want to.”

    Frau “M” (I’d like to address you respectfully, by your name, but this idiocy that is German law doesn’t allow me to do that), Muslims don’t ever, ever, EVER, E-V-E-R say “sorry to a kufr (maybe not even to one of their own.) They lie, they cheat, they evade but they NEVER say sorry. (I lived among them for many years.)

    By the way, if I may ask (and please forgive me for doing this), who did you vote for in the last national elections (and local ones, come to that)? Not by any chance for another “Frau M”?

    As for these judges, these “progressives”, these Greens, these “open to the world – all cultures are equal” crowd, part of their job is to find excuses. Yes, indeed, no-one asked you if you and your family had a hard childhood. That’s because you and me and the likes of us don’t matter. Only their own personal interests and their foreign pets matter to them. Do you know the German word “Gutmensch”. That too is how they probably see themselves, as “Gutmenschen”. By the way, your son’s killer, and others like him, see those judges as weak and stupid, and in this at least they are right.

    May your son rest in peace and may you too, and your family, find some way of finding peace. I am so, so sorry.

  4. Germany became failed state , it’s no justice anymore for citizens, very sad , be prepare , communism Is back …

  5. I wonder what the sentence would have been if he had done this in Germany between 1930-1945.

  6. As usual, the devil’s in the details, and the details aren’t reported. Apparently, even the prosecution conceded the two were in an altercation, and physically, the German had the Afghan very outclassed. The question was, was six stabs to the heart excessive for a claim of self-defense?

    If someone has me in a headlock, I’m losing consciousness, and I think the person is capable of killing me, of course I’d use a knife if I could. And the effective way of using a knife is multiple, lightning-fast stabs. Closeup, there is no deadlier weapon.

    Did the judges give extraordinary consideration to the Afghan’s background in letting him off? That is, did he learn to use a knife in that way? I don’t know if they did or didn’t. Details.

    The big mistake was for the German boy to get involved at all, especially in a confrontation. For most Westerners, a fight is not to the death. You beat your opponent and leave. I would surmise for many third world people, a fight is to the death. And a knife is the weapon of choice.

    So, a confrontation with a non-German carried the very real possibility of the death of one or the other. To me, the lesson is, don’t get involved in a confrontation with someone not of this culture, and if you do, be prepared to kill if you can. I’m not casting aspersions on the German boy, who was trying to protect a female immigrant being harassed by the Afghan. But Western honor flies out the window when confronted with savages, so best leave them to their own devices, unless you are professional at handling violence, like the police.

    I can’t help generalizing to our troops in Syria. We supported Syrian rebels and injected our troops, because we wanted to replace the Syrian government. Why? Because it was oppressive. That’s such a ludicrous argument (all the governments in the region are oppressive) I don’t believe it for a second. But, on general principles, leave them to their own devices.

    • Right do not get involved let a man brutal attack a women in public because he might be carrying a knife if he looks to be from the middle east or Africa. I wonder if Germany has laws about carrying knives like England, those laws in England never stop the “culture enrichers” from carrying them there. So in fact if you from the middle east or Africa go carry a knife in Germany if you are young and caught killing someone the courts will treat it like a DWI .It will give you protection to bully any natives who question your savage behavior in public ,they will think twice about questioning it because you could be carrying your knife with little to fear in any real jail time or deportation if you kill someone. They are already in Germany in law numbers they know they do not have to respect German law or German people .

    • I think RonaldB has the right of it.

      Without knowing the details, one cannot judge with confidence. It may be that the Afghan acted to save his own life. If he’s innocent, he should be acquitted, even if tomorrow the German government decides to expel every single immigrant from the last ten years.

      And as for the number of stab wounds – well, if the Afghan stabbed him in the back in cold blood, they would be aggravating circumstances. But if it was in defense of his life…? If at Charlie Hebdo, someone had managed to stab one of the gunmen to death, would anyone count the wounds? I’m not saying the two cases are morally equivalent, I’m saying that you cannot expect much restraint of anyone who believes he is acting in the last extreme defense of his life. Judgment here rests on whether that was the case or not, and we do not have enough information.

  7. Heartbreaking stuff. Watching the father of the victim break down at the trial of the murderer of his son is more than I could bear. Six (6!) knife blows to the son’s heart is “self-defence”? The mother of the victim naively expected the murderer of her son to show some contrition, some remorse, at his trial; he showed none. When will Europeans understand, culturally, what they are dealing with?

    • you are right, the most stunning thing is the expectation of the mother that the thug might show some remorse for killing a kuffar.

      People here don’t know a lot about Islam, they think it is a religion like all the others (Christianity, Buddhism etc.).
      The Leaders of the churches, politicians and most of the media confirm them in their view that Islam is peaceful and just like the other religions.
      Muslims, who use violence, just misinterpret their religion, and so on and so forth.

      I guess if you work hard every day from morning to evening and raise three kids you simply don’t have the time and Energy to become an Islamic Scholar. So I don’t blame the mother for her naivity. She is a victim of the German political System and Society.

      I sometime try to add some truth about Islam in discussions with other people (not that I radically condem Islam, but I just try to make people think if they are really sure that what they know about Islam is actually true). The usual reaction is incomprehension. People just can’t imagine that a Religion could legitimate or even demand violence.
      If you utter something like this your Counterpart starts Feeling uncomfortable and tries to Change the subject (that’s the nice variant) or calls you a nazi (this is the not so nice Version).

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