Sderot, Last Enclave of Civilisation

Our Israeli correspondent MC, who spent Passover under the shadow of the qassam missiles in Gaza, has some thoughts on the current situation in Israel and elsewhere.

Sderot, Last Enclave of Civilisation
by MC

Yesterday was Passover, and we, the Anglophone community of Sderot gathered at the Paratrooper Monument picnic site on a mound overlooking Gaza where we barbecued lamb and talked of all sorts of things.

There was a mixed group, predominantly North Americans, but also people from UK, Holland, Russia, Argentina and Brazil as well as Israeli-born English speakers brought together by the common ties of the Feasts of Jehovah.

As one of my sons pointed out, civilisation stopped just 400 yards west and south of us. Sderot is the ‘Rivendell’ of Western society, the last homely house before Hell. We retreated from Sinai; we gave the land back to barbarism. We retreated from Gaza; we gave it over to the orcs and wargs, trusting in their promise of peace, ‘guaranteed’ by American liberals and liars.

There, at the picnic site, in plain view there is a fence, and behind that fence are the most dangerous predators in the world, predators who would take us and our children and butcher us and eat our hearts.

The fence is patrolled by soldiers who are heavily armed. They use the picnic area as a rest/turnaround area. They are friendly, and we happily share our picnic with them. They play with the children; they are civilised humans defending us against wild animals.

Sderot should be a burning scar on the conscience of civilisation. Here on the border of the barbaric, our much vaunted “Western Civilisation” suffers a dangerous crisis of self-confidence: we allow the ruthless bullying of a peaceful society by a barbaric horde because we cannot decide whose value system we most abhor. It’s only Jooos; they don’t matter.

The Jewish State of Israel has of necessity secure borders and a strong identity. To arrive in Israel is to leave the pretence of anti-terrorist groping and get real. Why are you coming here? What are you going to do here?

At Ben Gurion airport you will not be molested, but you will be scrutinised and ethnically profiled. If you travelled El Al, this process will have started before you even checked in at the departure desk. You will have been questioned by a seemingly 15-year-old child, politely asking tailored questions cunningly designed to cross-check ticket and passport information. And you will arrive here safely.

Many people come to Israel to ‘do’ Jerusalem. It is the centre for the ‘god’ religions, and the Via Dolorosa is many people’s experience of the country. Jerusalem was of no importance to Islam until it became important to Islam’s selected enemies. Now it is a handle with which one can manipulate the West; one can cynically use Judeo-Christian values against the very Jews and Christians who uniquely hold those values dear. And we fall for it every time.

The rise of Western Civilisation was a huge catastrophe for Islam. How could Allah possibly allow Europe and America to become everything that Islam aspires to? It must be the influence of Satan! The American dream should be the Arab dream — kill, destroy, maim, behead, blast them to damnation…

Israel is the central focus of the resulting hatred. The Jewish scriptures that comprise the Bible are the despised harbingers of success, despised by Islam and despised by those who would replace the gospel of Torah and Grace and Messiah with a gospel of socialist humanistic comradely ‘love’. A ‘love’ that has left countless millions prematurely cold in their mass graves.

For all the traditions of Jewry, the root is the keeping of Torah, the keeping of the ten commandments. We keep Shabbat, our idols are low profile (mainly pictures of Rabbis, and hamzas), we honour parenthood, we acknowledge private property, etc. We don’t do it perfectly but it is still at the root of society, and thus we have a strong identity.

So we can share Passover together at the extreme edge of civilisation.

For this crime we evoke irrational hatred across the world. A hatred which denies us the right to defend ourselves, a hatred which says that we deserve the missiles, and that any retaliation is a ‘disproportionate’ response.

Trotsky was a Jewish Bolshevik, the Bolsheviks murdered 120 million people, therefore the Jews are mass murderers.

It is just a matter of reason and logic.

Trotsky died in 1940 with a Stalinist (Christian) ice axe in his brain; he was the last of the original Jewish Bolsheviks to die, murdered by the Stalinist ‘Christian’ Bolsheviks. The point I am trying to make is not sectarian, but that the application of double standards is a process of either profound ignorance or of mendacious racism. There is no reason or logic in the assertion that Bolshevism was a ‘Jewish’ movement. Marx was of Jewish extraction, Engels was of Christian ‘Pietist’ extraction, and both were atheist by religious persuasion.

It was the view of Nazism that Bolshevism was a Jewish plot for world domination.

I have no doubts that some Jews would aspire to world domination; on the other hand, Israel would just like to have secure borders, as I am sure would most readers of this article, whatever their nationality.

Israel cannot and should not be held responsible for Islamofascist aspirations to world domination, either. Israel is a beleaguered fortress holding back the brutal hordes; it deserves the unmitigated support of the West, not its vitriol. Israel gives its sons so that the West is safe. If Israel succumbs ask yourself who is next. Spain? Sicily? Malta? Austria? Hungary? All these have been occupied by Islam at one time or another.

Judeo-Christianity has been the only successful civilising influence, and to sow pernicious disharmony between its protagonists is simply not constructive. And worse, it is to kow-tow to cultural Marxist objectives. To separate the Judeo from the Christian is to shatter the process. They are co-dependant, and to separate is to make ineffective, hence the enemy desire to drive a wedge between the two.

Israel is not perfect; no country is. Jews as a cultural grouping have their faults too, and ‘exploitation’ of the Holocaust is a common accusation. However, I make no apologies for the self-inflicted guilt trips of Europeans, the Holocaust happened and I am not responsible for it or its aftermath. I lost some fifty family members. They just evaporated — we assume they were murdered, maybe by the Germans, maybe by their Lithuanian henchmen, or maybe even by the Russians.

Personally I hold these groups responsible, but not their descendants, unless they perpetuate the problems. Yet some of these groups want to hold me responsible for being a ‘victim’, so to speak. This is something over which I have no control. History is history. We can talk about it or not, but truth is also truth and must be lived with.

Some eleven million Jews and Christians (mainly Slavs) died in the Holocaust because socialists, and their progressive forerunners, thought them ethnic ‘rubbish’. This is what really needs to be discussed, because if we don’t watch out, they will do it again. The eugenicists are still with us and still killing in the name of racial purity; the seeds of Sangerism are still bloody and vicious.

On behalf of the Jooos I plead ‘not guilty’. I also humbly invite my accusers to closely examine the planks in their own eyes before they consider the ones they want to see in mine.

MC lives in the southern Israeli city of Sderot. For his previous essays, see the MC Archives.

48 thoughts on “Sderot, Last Enclave of Civilisation

  1. For a good, documented history of the Muslim hatred of Jews one can read “From Time Immemorial” by Jean Peters.

    • This is a well researched book by an author (a nyt Journalist) who was hostile to the early State of Israel, she went looking for the truth of the refugee situation, and found a can of worms covered by bucket loads of propaganda – as is everything to do with Islam.

      PS. Its ‘Joan’ Peters

  2. Civilization as we know it would not have been possible had Ya not spoken from Mount Sanai and Ya h Shua spoken from Galilee and Jerusalem. That Ya should go to all this trouble on our account speaks of His love beyond measure for us.
    As for Islam, I have studied it and have found it to be the very antithesis of the word of God /Ya.
    Blessed Pesach to you and yours.
    Steven Davis

  3. Excellent. Good luck to you ,your’s. and Israel.. May you keep control of your surroundings. May you defeat the “animals”.

  4. Well said sir. To you and yours a prayer to be safe.

    I visited Israel 30 years ago. Our tour guide kept us clear of a lot of the reality you face but it was still quite sobering. And being in the land with so much history was so awe inspiring. Reading about it seems a shadow compared to actually being there.

  5. @MC
    After our last encounter when you [engaged me in ways I did not like] for making perfectly reasonable statements about the European-Jewish conflict, I cannot find many redeeming qualities in this article in which you casually dismiss substantial Jewish involvement in the worldwide communist movement in the first half of the 20th century by mentioning Trotsky and implying ”antisemites” use this to make a leap of logic. In that era, for Germans to believe Jews were unreliable citizens made sense, something confirmed by Winston Churchill himself. The Germans surely knew of the Jewish dominated Bela Kuhn government, and they rightfully feared an expansion of communist politics throughout Europe. That this conflict escalated beyond belief is clear. To claim simplistic European bigotry is the cause of these events is to ensure you do not learn the right lessons. You imply the West doesn’t support Israel because they are ”only Jooos”, and that Jews are hated because of holding onto their traditions and the wish to defend themselves. If this erroneous conclusion is the result of your studies on this subject, it would be adviseable not to engage in [responses which I find offensive] when someone brings up a point you dislike, you may start to understand there is a more complex process behind such problems, because you are, without a doubt,off the mark.

    The enemies of Europe are not those who wish to separate the Judaic aspect from the Christian aspects of Western civilisation, but those who wish to deny the right of Europeans to control their borders, and wish us to feel ashamed about our history. I don’t see any movement who wishes to deny Jewish influences on European culture. Perhaps the handful of modern national socialists, but they are politically irrelevant.

    You conclude with claiming the ”seeds of Sangerism” are still here. In fact, Sanger has no influence on any relevant movement today.

    • Wow Oz! You are a wealth of emotion and a poverty of facts! MC is a complete gentleman (or gentile lady…don’t know) to answer you with such tact!

      I particularly enjoyed this little gem at the end:

      “You conclude with claiming the ”seeds of Sangerism” are still here. In fact, Sanger has no influence on any relevant movement today.”

      INDEED! Sangerism is responsible for the destruction of 20th and 21st century life where Hitler and the Soviets left off!

      • I wish you were wrong, Bob. I would give much for that not to be true. In fact, eugenics was already spreading its roots deep and wide when Sanger started spreading her version of this gospel.

        The Revolt Against the Masses: How Liberalism Has Undermined the Middle Class

        If our readers can afford this book, I highly recommend it. I was given a copy by a friend of the author and am slowly digesting his ideas. I can’t say it’s ‘pleasant’ but it sure is riveting. Think of it as the Introduction to Diana West’s ideas in “American Betrayal”. This slim volume- a little over 200 pages – paints the picture of the ways in which the too-precious literati set about destroying the middle class. That class they found too boring and too dull for words – though they tossed around plenty of them anyway.

        These were the elites and it is they who have been making cause with anarchists and destroyers ever since WWI.

        This period of American history needed a succinct summing up. As painful as it is, Siegel’s book does just that.

  6. Can this and the above comment be deleted?
    Your revisions make it appear as if I used pejoratives. From reading the article, I have little faith in a fruitful debate with MC, and I have no intention of rehashing our previous encounter.


    • You did used pejoratives, although you may not have recognized them as such. They were relatively mild, but given the contention that is likely to arise over this topic, I want to make sure that the discussion remains absolutely civil.

      I did no harm to the meaning of what you had to say. Your comment has been up long enough that I’ll let it be. Unless all hell breaks loose, of course — in which case I’ll probably have to close the comments completely anyway.

      • Absolutely what one must do Baron, as from past experiences when things get heated and over the top with uncivil comments.

        Oz, to say that Sangerism has no relevance or is not in overdrive here in the USA is ridiculous. She breathed and spewed eugenics and targeted minorities. The left cannot kill enough babies nor pass enough legislation that weeds out the elderly, disabled with enslavement items like Obamacare or enabling agendas like UN Agenda 21.

      • I’m quite shocked that you falsely accuse me of using pejoratives after editing my text for unknown reasons. None of the words I used could be in any way classified as a pejorative. This makes it seem as if I stooped to using foul languages or calling names.

        If you didn’t like my comment you could have blocked it, this is smearing my character.

        • It’s my judgment that those words were pejorative, albeit mildly so. That is hardly a smear on your character — I have had to redact certain comments by some of my good friends here, on those rare occasions when they forgot themselves and let their rhetoric get away from them. Doing so cast no aspersions whatsoever on their character. Anyone can lose track of decorum in the heat of an argument.

          If the topic of this post were a less volatile one, I would probably have let your words through unredacted. However, I am being stringent on this particular thread. And with good reason: In the I’ve seen what happens on Jew-topic threads when standards become relaxed, even slightly. I’ve learned my lesson the hard way.

  7. Sanger’s ideas are alive and well in the extreme left in the US. She remains the patron saint of Planned Parenthood, Inc. and still much revered. Blacks were right to be suspicious of what she wanted for them here.

  8. @MC
    You are at your strongest when you describe Israel and the Islamic rabble surrounding and wishing to throttle it, and attempting to throttle it again and again, so far unsuccessfully, but never giving up except for some taqiyah sop swallowed eagerly by Western saps forever making “peace.” You are less successful in dealing cogently with the Jews v. Europe situation, and it’s an exceedingly convoluted one, always has been, for different successive reasons.

    For one, gentile whites who are now overwhelmingly postmodern liberals don’t resent Jews for being “victims” but for the opposite reason: no longer being victims. Israel changed the equation entirely, and its success as a military power and as a scourge of terrorists is a rough pebble sticking in the gullet of Western Progressives and dissolving the sympathy that they, like all Western leftists, felt for the Jews after the Holocaust.

    Second, the small minority of conservative gentiles resent Jews too, and that resentment is not as spurious as you believe. It’s not even about Trotsky@ Co.: and major company it was besides Trotsky: in Russia, Germany, Poland, Hungary, Romania, the entire Anglophony, even — in a big way — South Africa. The resentment now is because Jews are still at the forefront of Leftism, except it’s the mutated form now where race, gender, ethnicity and sexual orientation have replaced the “class” of orthodox Marxism, and dissolution of the West’s borders and ethnic identities stands where “Proletarians of the world, unite” used to be. And this Neo-Marxism is destroying us and if it succeeds, it will have destroyed Israel too.

    More vociferous criticims of this phenomenon is needed, no less. It’s high time too the Jews move to the forefront in this criticism rather than deflect it with accusations of prejudice and double standard, as the continuing Jewish romance with leftism, however mutated now, is a lethal threat to the survival of the Jewish people and Israel too.

    P.S.: Not eleven million died in the Holocaust and there wasn’t one but two. We all know about the six million. But in the second Holocaust, that ran concurrently with the first one, not five million died but 26. That’s twenty six million non-Jewish civilians in Russia, Poland, Czechoslovakia and all other Slav-inhabited territories. However, I disagree with those who feel antipathy to Jews for promoting the “Holocaust industry.” There should have been a parallel effort byt the Slavs; that it did not materialize is not the fault of Jews.

    • Yes I accept the left leaning culture of, especially US Jews and particularly the New York Jewry. I have often wondered at the blindness which sees these people flirting with the brood of vipers.

      However I defend the double standards, ‘Christian’ Marxists are not held to the same standards, and by the time of the Holocaust(s) most of the ‘Jewish’ Marxists had been removed (murdered).

      Somehow, US Jewry failed to make the Marxist/Nazi/Socialist connection, this may be because of residual Ashkenazi linkages and maybe even has connections with Soviet infiltration and agents of influence. But it tended to be the ‘left’ that made space for the Jewish immigrants and old loyalties die hard.

      But I live here in small town Israel, not in the US, I see socialism as a huge threat to all mankind, its history is one huge bloodbath wherever it rears its ugly head, from the experiments in Paraguay to execution by wild dog in North Korea, to the ‘missing’ Sephardi children in early ‘Labour’ dominated Israel.

      From my perspective, the left is awash with those who have rejected Judeo-Christianity and seek its destruction, it is thus a shame when Jews are picked out over and above their ‘Christian’ counterparts to carry the blame for the actions of Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Ho, Castro, Guvara and Allende (If he had not been scotched by Pinochet) none of these had realistic Jewish connections.

      Irrational Joo hatred pre-dates the 20th century, and it certainly pre-dates the ‘Palestine Mandate’ when British Joo hatred laid the foundations of the current Palestinian problems.

  9. I sympathize with Israel, I do not sympathize with settlers, Israel’s settlement policy, or anything of the sort that’s currently happening in the Palestinian territories, no matter what the reason or justification is. This is what is happening in Europe right now, illegal settlements.

    • If you were to fully research the issue you would find that the ‘illegal’ adjective is yet to be proven in a court of law and is thus propaganda.

      The legal case revolves around who invaded whom in the ’67 war, if Israel was the aggressor then the settlements are illegal, if Jordan/Egypt then they are legal under the same laws as allowed the British Mandate in 1922.

      Quite naturally those who use the term ‘illegal’ do not want to take the issue before a Court of Law.

      • There is a good presentation here that ought to be required reading for anyone commenting on “the conflict,” the Palestinian “issue” etc.

        On the other hand, for the sake of reflexive defenders of contemporary Jewry, case of the U.S., I toyed with the idea of producing a brief political biography of Hussein Obama, starting in college and ending today, highlighting in blue the pivotal role that Jews have had in his indoctrination, ascent, and ultimately, rule –including today. All talk of “double standard” would cease once you could see how much blue there was on each page, and in what critical places.

        • Please do, but also highlight in other colours those ‘other’ influences. The double standard here is that it only occurs to you to want to highlight the ‘Jewish’ input not ALL the other inputs. Saul Alinsky may be an atheist of Jewish extraction but of what extraction was Rev. Wright for example?

          • And in Alinski’s case are you going to highlight the ‘Jewish’ influence or the ‘Atheist’ influence?

          • MC,
            For Pete’s sake; Jews are but 1.8% of US population, but the blue ink in my BHO “bio” would cover well in excess of 50% of the space, and impact-wise, perhaps 66%. Again, you get stuck on one name, Alinsky. But where are your– and this is just top of my head, quickly: Martha Minnow, Newton Minnow, Elena Kagan, David Axelrod, Rahm Emmanuel and his brother- author of BHO’s “healthcare” philosophy, and Abner Mikva, and Penny Pritzker — without whom BHO would never have made it to Harvard Law, let alone graduated and made his way into the Chicago legal establishment, and then parlayed that into a political career, and raised money for that, and got elected against all odd to the US Senate and again, against all odds, twice, into the White House. And where would BHO have been without his Jewish donors in Hollywood and Wall Street and on the Jewish “street,” and Sarah Silverman’s campaign videos, and 78% of the Jewish vote in the 2008 elections, and the 1/3 + Obama Jewish cabinet etc.
            No problem may be solved, not in engineering and not in man’s condition, without looking objectively at the facts — and letting the chips fall where they may…

          • I repeat, And in Alinski’s case are you going to highlight the ‘Jewish’ influence or the ‘Atheist’ influence?

          • These are good questions. When a French person of Christian background becomes an atheist and does despicable things — such as Jean-Paul Sartre, to pick an example at random — do we refer to his former Christianity as being significant? Does his being French matter?

            The issue with Jewishness is more complicated, since the religion and the ethnicity have been melded together for so long. People tend to associate the religion with the bloodline, as do the Jews themselves.

            How “Jewish” is a third-generation Jewish atheist? Is his ethnicity relevant when his religion has been totally discarded?

            I don’t have any answers to these questions, but they’d be interesting questions to look into.

    • The idea that the creation of new settlements or that the expansion of ones already in place is an act of bad faith on the part of various Israeli governments may seem without question to those who believe those settlements constitute an obstacle to the ever elusive solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict. Whether this argument is well-founded or not, the willingness of Israel’s critics to assert that these communities are not merely wrong-headed but a violation of international law escalates the debate over their existence from a dispute about policy into one in which the Jewish state itself can be labeled as an international outlaw. The ultimate end of the illicit effort to use international law to delegitimize the settlements is clear—it is the same argument used by Israel’s enemies to delegitimize the Jewish state entirely. Those who consider themselves friends of Israel but opponents of the settlement policy should carefully consider whether, in advancing these illegitimate and specious arguments, they will eventually be unable to resist the logic of the argument that says—falsely and without a shred of supporting evidence from international law itself—that Israel is illegitimate.

      • I don’t care whether they’re “technically” legal or illegal, they’re wrong. Slavery used to be “legal”, mass immigration of completely different peoples without the natives having a choice of it is “legal” right now in Europe.

        It’s genocide.

        As for the for the Jews vs Europe situation, I won’t comment on it as I don’t know too much about it, especially since I haven’t met many Jews in Canada, but I will say I think a distinction should be made between European/American Jews and Israeli Jews, especially considering Israel’s population is 50% Sephradim(I apologize if I spelled that wrong), Ashkenazis are usually the ones being accused of the anti-Europe liberalism, and that Israel actually has a really conservative immigration policy, one of the best in the world in my opinion, along with Japan, low birth rates or not.

        • If you look at Takuan’s reply you will see that the Jews are also the natives of Judea and Samaria, They were ethnically cleansed from Hevron and the Etzion block first by the British in the case of Hevron and then by the Jordanians in 1948. The Largest ‘Settlements’ are in these areas. I am afraid that believing anything which comes from the Palestinians and their mouthpieces (BBC, CNN, NYT, WaPo and The Guardian) is fraught with propaganda and gross simplifications.

          But Yes you are “dead on” with the Sephardim, and Sderot is some 75% Sephardim (including my wife and myself).

  10. Correction

    So Israel falls so do we! Where will the European self haters run then? Give me “Joos” and Judaism any day, rather than a compendium of Christian sayings for its stupid followers, which is what the silly “Holy Kran” really is. Islam is full of holes believe me. Its Prophet is a “gerund”- an invented Noun acting as a Verb.

    Personally, I strongly obejct to “Mohammeding”…

    I pefer Bibling and Jewing…

  11. I am a Roman Catholic who supports Israel a hundred per cent. I am sick of the anti-Semitism from whatever quarter in the past, present or future. Israel has an inalienable
    right to all of the Land of Israel including Judea and Samaria. The Palestinians already have their own state called the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan where they should take a one-way ticket to.

  12. Land for peace didn’t work for Neville Chamberlain, or the Czechs.

    Land for peace is a proven failure.

    Why on earth would anyone think that it would work now?

    • Doesn’t matter if it will work or not, it’s Israel’s responsibility.

      Do the two-state solution, guard your borders heavily, and if there still isn’t peace, you have the moral high ground now. Maybe others will be more willing to help or stand with Israel after that.

      • The “two state” solution narrows Israel at one point to 9 miles this is indefensible no matter how heavily guarded. Would you accept a two state solution with French Quebec without an anti-terrorist/anti-aggression clause, and without Quebec accepting the legitimacy of the rest of Canada? Would you then allow Quebec to ethnically cleanse all anglophone Canadians from its area? This is what the PA want.

      • The “Palestinians” will never accept a two-state solution, Lotos (and if they did, and allowed their territory to be used for continued terrorist attacks, Israel would be entirely justified in invading, as in ’67, which gets no-one very far).

      • It doesn’t matter if it doesn’t work, but Israel has to go along with it anyway?

        Because that will give Israel the moral high ground?

        Keep dreaming. The fact is the Israel already has the moral high ground. And Neville Chamberlain showed that land for peace is a failure. So your position is obviously untenable.

        • Now, as then, the beliefs of the other party are not being taken into account. It didn’t make one jot of difference how much land the Nazis were given in order to achieve “peace” they were going to do their own thing anyway. Poland could have adopted multiculturalism as their guiding philosophy and been the most “tolerant” nation in history – the Nazis would have done what they did anyway because of what they believed. That was the key factor then, and it’s the key factor now.

          Anyone who thinks they have a “road map to peace” in the Middle East who has failed to address that key issue -Islamic Jew hatred – is just plain deluded. Living in a dream world.

          • Why are you comparing Nazi Germany, pretty much the strongest military power in that time, to a bunch of Palestinian guerrillas?

            Also, I’ll just say, any assumptions on what could’ve happened later aside, after France was defeated, the Germans sent Britain and Winston Churchill 20 peace offers involving only Alsace-Lorraine and the Danzig Corridor, so.

  13. I think Israel should have the river to the sea. Always have always will. I am not a Jew but a believer in western civilization and the once great British Empire. I don’t care what anyone thinks. Sooner or later there is going to be a reckoning and the more territory the west grabs the better in the long run.

  14. Lotos writes:

    “I don’t care whether they’re [the settlements]“technically” legal or illegal, they’re wrong.”

    The analytical workings of a [sarcasm redacted]. But this following takes the biscuit:

    “Doesn’t matter if it will work or not, it’s Israel’s responsibility.”

    The “it” referred to is Israel withdrawing from the West Bank. Doesn’t matter if it doesn’t work out!? [sarcasm redacted]. A nation-state is supposed to jeopardize its very existence on a maybe we’ll survive maybe we won’t basis. With observations like that – shared by more than a few Westerners – one can fully understand why Israel is trenchantly and emphatically the sole determiner of its security needs.

    • When I say it doesn’t matter if it doesn’t work out or not, I’m not referring to Israel’s existance, obviously. This is where I strongly think people are being ridiculous and overreacting.

      What could happen is if the West Bank and Gaza are given independence, terrorist attacks may increase(and they may actually lower too). The biggest threat Israel faces are rockets which they’re well defended against, and they already have a giant wall around the West Bank..

      What exactly do you think these Palestinians are going to do, invade with a professional army? I don’t deny there may be casualties, but there’s already casualties, and there is a chance they could lower in result of a two-state solution, no matter what your blind hate tells you(no doubt they have even more blind hate towards Israel, but is it more likely to slowly lower when their land is occupied, or independent?)

      If you’re worried about a repeat of the Israel-Arab wars and having a less defensible border, against large professional armies rather than terrorism, are the USA and NATO not going to defend Israel? You really think they’d let that happen? That’d include even a country like Turkey. A repeat of the Israel-Arab wars is not going to happen.

      I’d even say Israel’s biggest risk in terms of terrorism is the Syria border rather than an independent Palestinian with all these rebels, should Israel go occupy Syria now?

      The only thing I would agree with is Iran, Saudi Arabia, or a neighbouring country getting nuclear weapons IS a real threat to Israel.

      I don’t believe in “offense for defensive purposes”, that’s what this is. Just like the USA attacking Afghanistan because 9/11 and causing a lot more deaths than 9/11 caused itself. It’s ridiculous. If Afghanistan would be harboring terrorists, how about just not allowing Afghan citizens, or anyone who visited Afghanistan recently on planes to the US(oh no, evil prejudice!)…

      • Just watch with open eyes. Under the splendid leadership of the “Chosen One”, the USA (and therefore NATO with it) is changing sides. Very shortly, Israel will be left with no-one to come to its defence, at just about the time that Iran gets a working A-bomb.

    • “The “it” referred to is Israel withdrawing from the West Bank. Doesn’t matter if it doesn’t work out!? [sarcasm redacted]. A nation-state is supposed to jeopardize its very existence on a maybe we’ll survive maybe we won’t basis. With observations like that – shared by more than a few Westerners – one can fully understand why Israel is trenchantly and emphatically the sole determiner of its security needs.”

      I agree, what an absurd suggestion. I’ve often thought about the end of apartheid period in South Africa. It was broadly agreed across the white community that apartheid needed to come to an end, but we can see the chaos unleashed once it did, killing tens of thousands of people (perhaps over one hundred thousand), both black and white. I put culpability on De Klerk’s head for this outcome; regardless of what the international community and even the voting population wanted, it was his duty to defend the interests of his citizens, and he failed as greatly as anyone possibly could.

      Israel is in the same position. Regardless of how circumstances are in however many years, to give up territory to make the state indefensible is just not something that any prime minister of Israel can do without taking an unacceptable risk and betraying his country.

      Apartheid should have ended, but it should have ended in such a way that would be safe for blacks and whites, not simply by dismantling the government and letting chaos reign. If this was, let’s say, impossible, there would have been no alternative but to keep those few regulations that protected the population. Sometimes it’s like that.

      • South Africa lacks a set of shared values, it is the product of hundreds of years of open borders and the consequent cultural mayhem. The oldest (surviving) tribe in South Africa is the White Afrikaner tribe, the Han tribes being largely absorbed into the Grica hotchpotch. The Afrikaners had a chance of making it work, but in formalizing apartheid, they tried to embed and preserve their own ‘superiority’ which was elusive to say the least.

        An then socialism got into the mix…..

        There is nothing quite as divisive as extreme socialism, it is a doctrine of directed Jealousy and hate masquerading as an angel of ‘enlightenment’.

        South Africa didn’t stand a chance.

  15. MC

    “Some eleven million Jews and Christians (mainly Slavs) died in the Holocaust”

    …also perhaps 1 million Roma, the forgotten victims of the Nazis. The number of Slavs who were murdered by the Nazis rather depends on which accounting method is used. All ethnic groups designated as ‘sub-human’ by the Nazis were victims of the Holocaust and the Soviet union lost more than 20 million people because of the Nazi invasion.

    • Stalin murdering most of the top Red Army officers beforehand didn’t help much either. And of course allying the Soviet Union with the Nazis & not believing his buddy Hitler would attack him was what you might call a slight misjudgment on the part of Stalin too, eh.

      • Yes, but how does that alter the fact that the Nazis planned to exterminate the Slavs in Western Russia and Ukraine and killed millions?

  16. Why are so many Jews liberal or leftist?

    MC said “But it tended to be the ‘left’ that made space for the Jewish immigrants and old loyalties die hard.”

    Bingo! “Mystery” largely solved.

    I wonder why it can be so difficult to see the obvious.

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