The co-pilot of a Germanwings jet that went down in the French Alps, killing 150 people, appears to have crashed the plane deliberately, a Marseille prosecutor said on Thursday.
The German citizen, left in sole control of the Airbus A320 after the captain left the cockpit, refused to re-open the door and pressed a button that sent the jet into its fatal descent, the prosecutor told a news conference carried on live television.
And so the speculation ends…a German ethnic citizen who won awards for his excellence in flying deliberately murdered the people in his care.
The speculation was rational. The end story is not.
Three cities come up in the history of this co-pilot so far:
Marseilles, where this co-pilot resided with his parents (characterized as hotbed of radical Islam
Bremen, where he trained for this airline, & where Police closed first IS/ISIS/ISIL Mosque in Bremen, Germany
Düsseldorf, where this co-pilot had a flat, convenient to many inhabitants of Derendorf are immigrants from Turkey, and the borough houses the central mosque of the Muslims in Düsseldorf.
Murdering a plane load of passengers and crew is a signature move by a singular identifiable characterization. Color me skeptical that Islam had nothing to do with this.
I agree. If he was a convert it will eventually come out.
Another subtle clue surfaces:
TheAge: …French investigators have contacted German authorities to find more information about the co-pilot. Andreas Lubitz was a German national, 28 years old, but the prosecutor did not know his ethnic origin.”
You have here a picture
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11496066/Andreas-Lubitz-and-Patrick-S-What-do-we-know-about-the-pilots-on-Germanwings-flight-4U9525.html
He was ethnically german, that´s out of doubt. The question remains whether he was a convert.
Indeed, that would be far worse, since it means that Islam is starting to spreed into european society.
Does Bunny Prince Charlie count as “European society”?
German sites are the best. His , the co-pilot’s FB was removed IMMEDIATELY !
According to Michael Mannheimer, there is evidence he was most likely a convert to islam. For those who can read German, go to his site :
michael-mannheimer.com
It is er..” down” at the moment
” coincidentally” I am sure ?! as I went again for the link but ” server is not responding”
But this is Mannheimer’s only source.
That’s a pretty thin reed to hang the whole thing on. I’m waiting for more information. “Circumstantial” evidence would be an improvement!
If it’s been inundated with people trying to open the page, that’ll do it. Happens, for instance, when Drudge links to a small place.
Except this is what we all get now we can actually get there :
Fehler 404. Die angeforderte Seite wurde nicht gefunden.
But Mannheimer’s site is often under DDoS attack. This is not unusual.
We will see as this all unfolds.
At least if we can trust authorities.
Many of us in Europe do not anymore and not without good reason.!
we could be wrong of course, but much truth is suppressed here. This is a fact and I have been to sites that are off suddenly, like a Norwegian newspaper who interviewed some surviving teenagers of Breivik attack who swore shots were coming from different parts of the island so more shooters. But it was taken down when i searched again. Never to be seen. I began to doubt my sanity ! But I know what I saw and read.
Well, given the penetration of Islam into Europe, one could throw three darts blindfold on a map of Europe and most likely hit targets with evidence of problems with Islam.
Perhaps this is a VERY long shot, but could this not also be a German unhappy with the direction his country is taking – with a similar world-view to many of his countrymen 70 years ago? Although it’s mostly “Ossis” having such a way of thinking these days, not “Wessis” like this pilot.
If this is the case, doubtless we’ll hear about it in the media in no time, just like with Breivik. And doubtless this would be used to try to silence anyone with “politically incorrect” opinions, such as all of us on this website.
Or another way to put it is that the very fact that no non-Islamic back story has surfaced quickly in the Mainstream news media (as would happen if it were, in fact, a Breivikian deed) leads us to reasonably conclude it is not such — leaving only a standard non-Islamic psychological explanation, or an Islamic explanation (conversion and “radicalization”).
I have no expertise in human psychology, but if the pilot plunged the plane full of passengers into the mountain willfully, it does not seem like suicide. It seems to be plain murder. If it is murder, what is/are the motive(s). In either case, that airline is now in the hot seat; they have some explaining to do.
It could still be suicide if he was so consumed by his narcissistic depression he was oblivious to the passengers he was taking down with him. Two problems with this: If he wants to commit suicide, he could have easily taken a plane up by himself for a test run or something and crashed that (or killed himself any number of other ways); and secondly, unless we have evidence of other suicides that have been in intention only suicides but happened to involved a mass-murder by “collateral damage” through an outrageous obliviousness such as this, this would be a sui generis event.
How do they know it was the co pilot and not the pilot?
I expect someone can recognise the voices, or the pilot was calling to him by name.
Sorry, that should have been: How do they know it was the co pilot and not the captain? I thought they were silent on the recording.
Interesting thought. How do they know it was the captain that went for a pee?
The flight recorder picked up everything, except the authorities hadn’t said squat until now.
The mics picked up everything from the panic passengers to the captain beating on the cockpit door.
From the looks of it, this guy wasn’t pilot material. Here in the U.S. you have to pay for flight school, then do smaller airlines in regional routes before you’re picked up by the majors. BTW this process also screens out a vast majority of the flakes, wannabes and incompetents. Only the most driven get in.
This clown just went to class on Luftansa and was allowed to fly the majors.
On the contrary, apparently he was one of the best – and approved by the FAA.
More:
France’s air force says it scrambled a Mirage fighter jet to the area when the Germanwings flight lost radar contact, but arrived too late to help via Stripes.com.
Translation from PINews hat tip: FreeRepublic
7 nuclear facilities within a few minutes of flight Ausgestrahit.de
Compare with map of flight path
Fighter jets were scrambled to keep the nuclear plants safe from a plane that did NOT respond to Marseille ATC.
nuke sites all over that area of France
*****
No link, but also read a comment suggesting the pilot did NOT leave the cockpit once from the flight inbound to Barcelona-El Prat.
Plane crashes are very rare when we consider the number of domestic and international flights per year.
For a flight to be safe the plane needs to be functioning correctly AND the captain AND the co-pilot need to be operating the plane correctly. Given this AND condition a pilot has to be at least twice as reliable as the place to get the high reliability outcomes.
So given this I would make the following observation:
If it was the copilot sitting in the co-pilot position and deliberately putting the plane into the descent, then, yes, this would be murder-suicide but it would require such an extremely distorted mindset brought about be a psychological or ideological condition that, in my mind, it is unthinkable that there would be not hints of this in his previous behavior.
We can and should expect more evidence.
was he on his own in cockpit ? aircraft steered 150 miles east, of course towards marsellie and Toulouse ??? hi jack !!!!!!!!
There was one Moroccan passenger.
Richard Reid had no Mohammed factor in his name either. One other question. What was Andreas’ mother’s maiden name?
Enough with the speculation, already!
Sometimes people commit suicide by jumping in front of trains. This can so traumatise the driver that they can no longer do their job, and others have to scrape up the remains.
It’s an extremely selfish way of ending it all, and so is the present case- but that’s all it is, until someone proves otherwise.
Some years ago there was a Japanese pilot who took his plane (I forget, JAL or ANA) full of passengers and dived into the Pacific Ocean. So it’s still possible that the German mass murderer was not Islam-infected but had the psychological profile of American HS or college students who take themselves out in a hail of bullets along with a number of their classmates: a nerd, loner, rebuffed by women since childhood, unfulfilled libido transformed into hate of women because of rejection and hate of man because of bullying/taunting during his growing-up. Add to this overwork and not enough sleep.
Assuming that we’re not being lied to about the cockpit recording, this seems like the more likely explanation at the moment.
I would expect the sudden jihad syndrome types to be muttering to themselves allah hu akbar or some sort of prayer asking allah to accept their glorious “martyrdom”… Anything to help increase their chances of being accepted into their 72 goat “paradise”. And that would be on the recording if it happened.
If anything like that was on the recording I’d expect an attempt at covering it up, but I’d also expect it to get leaked (sold) to reporters by someone anyway.
I think you’ve covered it, Takuan.
I was reading an account of one of these “Ima gonna die and take y’all with me” airplane cowboys: he set the altimeter – or whatever it’s called – for 600 feet BELOW ground level. That’s overkill.
On Twitter I’m being taken to task for not persisting in seeing it as Islam. As I said there -to a chorus of boos – not all God’s dangers is a Muslim. In this case, his parents may be privy to some of his demons. Or may have been totally in the dark. It will be a long unravel…maybe they’ll find a paper trail of treatment records from his sudden break a few years ago.
…this keeps reminding me of 7-7, all those people who never got home. 9/11 was worse. Mass tragedies are all haunting. Our son had a scholarship for 10 days in Italy and Greece when he was 14. I remember us getting ready as his plane left for home…I can barely grasp what those German parents, waiting for their kids to arrive back from Spain…what they’re enduring. I would be smashing all the candles and flowers. Well, that’s what I say…Except I’d probably be in stasis, not able to move.
It’s not like he didn’t have other opportunities to kill himself. Being a pilot, he could have taken a plane up without passengers, for practice, test flight, etc. Or jumped in the River Weser.
While captains can expect good salaries, Copilots, especially in low-cost airlines, can expect to have pays perhaps slightly higher than a supermarket shelf-filler. That, and masses of debt from their training (over £20,000), as well as long hours… the result – they can turn frustrated, with hate for the airline they work for?
Who knows -perhaps this copilot just had an altercation with the captain, and was annoyed at his employers, and decided to take some (admittedly extreme) revenge?
I had no idea! Always thought they earned in the 100K area, due to all the training and responsibility.
It’s a very extreme measure. Mere depression is not enough to make somebody want to kill hundreds of strangers. Shoot your boss, perhaps (although that probably more in dream than reality), but not this. This is really, really sick stuff. And yet, even though he may not have made it to the income and status big time, he was awarded and, you would think, on track, not the complete loser type you’d imagine.
Perhaps it was a mass sacrifice to satan by the followers of Islam
I keep wondering if this is “for real”: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Honeywell_Uninterruptible_Autopilot
And whether Airbus has something similar.
Then I wonder why it wouldn’t get used more often if it is real.
Michael Mannheimer says, he was a convert
http://michael-mannheimer.net/2015/03/26/copilot-der-airbus-ungluecksmaschine-war-islamkonvertit-er-steuerte-die-maschine-bewusst-gegen-den-berg/
But this is his only source.
Mirror: Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz called ‘a hero’ in sick Facebook tribute page
Police today made ‘significant discovery’ at his home outside Dusseldorf
That makes 3 airliners in the past year that have gone down without a distress call…
Does anyone know whether in the entire history of aviation there has been a single instance in which a non-muslim pilot has committed mass murder+suicide by flying his plane into the ground?
Takuan told of one a few posts up.
There have been a number of these non-Muslim pilots who were doing such things long before we began worrying about our pilots’ religio-political doctrines.
—————————-
http://www.vox.com/2015/3/26/8294971/pilot-suicide-crash
—————————–
That is by no means a complete list but perhaps other readers can add to it. Having a cousin who is a retired senior airline pilot for a major airline, I can tell you that they’re not above the usual neuroses you see among elite occupations. It is sometimes the same kind of arrogance found in, say, some neurosurgeons. IOW, real divas.
The first example in that list Dymphna provided doesn’t prove it was non-Islamic. The second one was caused by a Muslim invoking Allah (“God”). The third was Indonesian, which we must through rational prejudice assume was Islamic as well.
In the picture of Him with the Golden Gate Bridge in the background, look at what he is wearing around his neck.
I can only see a striped scarf. Have you got a clearer image? What do you see?
It looks like a scarf to me. It doesn’t look like a keffiyeh.
IMO, not enough to make him a Muslim. But now the police have found an un-named “something” in his apartment…acc to the DM.
Is anyone really sure that it was the 1st Officer, Andreas, who was responsible for this?
I was inflight crew, albeit 30 years old, and albeit for a US Flag airline. But, not only pilots have access to the cockpit. Any crew member has access.
So, in addition to the pilots, who were the flight attendants?
Also, in the US, at least 30 years ago, FAA inspectors could/would travel jump seat in the cockpit. I am not sure if there is such an equivalent (FAA inspector) in Europe.
Having had worked in the industry for years, this is a tragedy that hits home.
See the crew instructional video on how the post 9/11 style doors work on the Airbus aircraft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixEHV7c3VXs
Then combine that with the CRV for identifying who was in the cockpit and when.
I don’t quite understand. I will look at the link you have provided but as former crew, all crew is allowed into the cockpit.
My question is; is anyone sure that only the 1st Officer was in the cockpit when the plane ‘went south’?
I am only enquiring as to the identities of the flight service (attendants) crew.
I looked at the U Tube Video. My point exactly that it is “crew only”.
I still ask, as there were FAs (Flight Attendants) on board, what are their identities?
I don’t know what this is; a young, depressed pilot or a conspiracy of his or other flight crew. All I know is that 150 lives were lost on this flight and as former airline, my heart aches for the families of the passengers and the crew.
I’ve been there many years ago with the hijackings and the bombings.
Let’s just not concentrate on the 1st Officer as he and the Captain were not the only ones allowed cockpit entry.
Crew is crew including FAs
is it possible another entered the cockpit by pretending to be Pilot…
Telegraph: • German prosecutors say Andreas Lubitz had a sick note from a doctor on Tuesday allowing him time off but that he tore it up
The sub-headline mention of a ‘torn sick note’ is all that is mentioned at that link while the actual article kept the contradicting earlier quotes:
as well as:
****
Further google exploration reveals several links referencing this note, but provide no substance other than the mention of its existence….except for:
BloombergBusiness Video which reveals the investigators located a torn up sick note indicating he was under medical treatment of mental illness or for emotional issues related to girlfriend issues.
UKMirror: The 27-year-old attended a clinic at the University of Dusseldorf Hospital in February and March, it has been confirmed
The most recent visit was March 10, exactly a fortnight before he guided the Germanwings Airbus A320 into its fatal descent.
The hospital said Lubitz attended for “diagnostic evaluation” but insisted he was not treated for depression.
No more information will be shared due to patient confidentiality.
They confirmed he was suffering from a serious illness which he had concealed from his employers Germanwings.
One of the sick notes was reportedly signed by either a local neurologist or psychologist.
German newspaper Bild had already claimed Lubitz had 18 months of psychiatric help for a ‘serious depressive episode’ while he was training six years ago.
Germany’s Federal Aviation Office said there was a note on his file saying he needed “specific regular medical examination”, but did not specify whether it was about his physical or mental health.
Gateway Pundit is reporting that there is evidence that the co-pilot of a convert to Islam.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/03/breaking-german-news-germanwings-airbus-co-pilot-was-muslim-convert/
Jim Hoft, like everyone else, is sourcing his post to Michael Mannheimer, who is well-respected. However, this is Mannheimer’s only source.
Mr. Mannheimer made a mistake when he based his assertion on that post. It provides the flimsiest of evidence — virtually non-existent. This story is being spun out of less than gossamer. If it is ever definitively refuted, it will discredit everyone who jumped on it.
I still think there’s a fair possibility that the guy was a convert. But we have no evidence to support it yet, NONE. The fact that he lived in Marseille and Bremen and suffered from depression proves nothing.
People need to be more careful in their assertions, and label outright speculation clearly as such.
My thought exactly Baron. Ejbron in the Netherlands is jumping all on this Mannerheim “proof”. I told him: do not do this…It might backfire.
On the other hand, as Hugh Fitzgerald frequently notes, islam holds a special appeal for the those Infidels in the West who are disaffected, alienated, or mentally unstable. Doesn’t mean that the perp was muslim. But all other things being equal, it does, I think, increase the odds that he was.
Yes, I agree.
And there’s another possibility, which is subtly horrifying in its own way: He may not have been committing jihad per se, but rather was inspired by innumerable Islamic examples to choose a spectacular form of suicide that includes the mass murder of innocents.
In other words, the deadly and destructive memes generated by Islam have thoroughly infected the infidel world and are being replicated independently of the Islamic “religion”. Similar processes have been observed throughout the history of Islam. The Mafia in Sicily, for example, can be seen as a replication of a typical Islamic social structure that emerged as a result of the two centuries of Muslim rule on the island in the latter part of the first millennium.
At the moment we don’t know much about the motive or what inspired the perpetrator in this case.
The fact that we are thinking about islam and this pilot is proof of the influence of islam on our society’s.
Suppose no islam was involved now. What does that help us? We only have to wait until this scenario unfolds. Sudden jihad is real. Sudden jihad happened at fort Hood.
So the question should not be if this pilot was inspired by islam. They question should be: Do we want muslims to fly our airplanes? Do we want any muslims in our armies? Do we want muslims operating our powerplants? Do we even want muslims in our countries?