Interview with Martin Bosma

Below is an interview with Martin Bosma, who is a member of the Dutch parliament for the PVV (Party for Freedom) and a close associate of Geert Wilders.

According to Nieuwsuur:

Alexander Pechtold (D66, anti-Wilders party) called him “a xenophobe who uses racist expressions”, Parliament chairperson Gerdi Verbeet (Labour Party) thinks “he sows nervousness in the House”, and Bart Jan Spruyt (conservative) and Vrij Nederland (left-wing weekly) called him “the political genius, the intellectual force behind Geert Wilders”. PVV MP Martin Bosma has written a book, an analysis of the emergence of the multicultural society: “The Pseudo-Elite of the Counterfeiters”, on the left-wing elite that is blind to the danger of Islam. The Dutch TV news program “Nieuwsuur” interviewed Martin Bosma.

Many thanks to our Flemish correspondent VH for the translation and to Vlad Tepes for the subtitling:

A full transcript is below the jump.


00:01   Alexander Pechtold [D66, anti-Wilders party] called him ‘a xenophobe who uses racist expressions’
00:05   Parliament chairperson Gerdi Verbeet [PvdA, Labour] thinks he ‘sows nervousness in the House’
00:10   and Bart Jan Spruyt [conservative] and Vrij Nederland [left-wing weekly] called him ‘the political genius,
00:14   The intellectual force behind Geert Wilders’. PVV MP Martin Bosma of the PVV has written a book;
00:19   an analysis of the emergence of the multicultural society,
00:23   “The Pseudo-Elite of the Counterfeiters’, on the left-wing elite that is blind
00:27   to the danger of the Islam. Martin Bosma, welcome.
00:31   This book should be out in October, as I understood it, but now it’s earlier.
00:36   Tried to convince the CDA congress?
00:40   No, because it doesn’t work like that with books, that takes months of production time, so …
00:44   Usually it is later rather than earlier …
00:46   Yes, but you can not postpone a book like that forever, and before you know it is outdated…
00:50   that is what happens with political books, so I was happy at a certain point that the egg was laid.
00:54   But you of course do want to convince a few people.
00:56   Yes, that is why I wrote a book…
00:58   It got a little out of hand, almost 400 pages and 1000 footnotes,
01:01   and I hope the readers can pick up something from it.
01:03   Yes, and also CDA readers?
01:05   Everyone.
01:06   OK, now back in time, because you start the story
01:09   with how you decided to cooperate with Wilders, and this actually begins in 2004…
01:17   Yes, that of course was a very dark time,
01:20   I always was critical of mass immigration and Islamization,
01:23   and we had Professor Fortuyn, who appeared on stage as quickly as he disappeared form it,
01:28   who definitely had my sympathy and I would have liked to have done something for him,
01:32   were I not the director of a company, and you cannot easily leave that, and when the LPF fell,
01:38   shortly thereafter Geert Wilders started expressing himself more and gained publicity,
01:41   he got in a bit of trouble with the VVD,
01:44   and in the summer of 2004 he was in the news a lot,
01:47   and it ended in September with him stepping out of the VVD,
01:51   which had never happened in that party, that party had always had absolute unity, and after that
01:57   some other frogs jumped out of the pot, but in 2004 he got out of that party, or was kicked out,
02:02   and that was basically the time for me to finally talk with him, and I found it quite interesting.
02:06   You then were not yet active in politics?
02:08   No, absolutely not, I had a background in journalism,
02:10   For many years I worked one floor below here with the NOS news,
02:13   but I found it very valuable what Geert was doing,
02:16   and then on a number of occasions spoke with him,
02:19   that was inspiring, but at the same time, Geert had nothing,
02:23   he was put out of the VVD with three cardboard boxes,
02:26   no computer anymore and the phone did not work,
02:29   and he was not someone I could work for, there was no an organization, there was no employer …
02:34   But I really want to go back to 2004, because you say, then he stepped out of the fraction,
02:39   but I think there was one very important moment, about which in any case you say in your book,
02:43   “that was when I knew I had to do something in politics. And that was the murder of Theo van Gogh.”
02:48   Yes, that was the murder of Van Gogh, I had spoken several times with Geert, but in practical terms
02:52   it did not really look like an operation that would make it, one also found it that it didn’t matter
02:58   to Wilders, because we learned from Fortuyn, we learned our lesson, we now will talk about it,
03:03   and address the problems; that was kind of the general opinion.
03:06   Yes, Geert was on the third floor in a small room,
03:09   and nobody really took it seriously, and when Van Gogh was murdered,
03:14   I was in the area, I knew Van Gogh,
03:16   an old colleague of mine at Veronica Newsradio where he had a brilliant talk radio program,
03:22   so when he was assassinated, I experienced that literally from close by, it did tear things up here,
03:27   despite the fact that it was a strange operation, I got involved.
03:31   Shall we go back to that moment for a while? 2004, November 2.
03:35   “There seems to be a shooting in your neighborhood, you’ll hear more next.”
03:40   At the moment I walked across the street, we heard the first shots.
03:45   I think the culprit was close behind me,
03:48   and clearly with a drawn gun went towards someone, and shot again.
03:53   “Lot of shooting, several times near the Oosterpark.”
03:57   That gentleman was here on the cycle path with three shell casings next to his head,
04:02   and I was just transfixed.
04:05   I immediately recognized Theo van Gogh, and the picture was clear to me instantly,
04:10   it really was ‘now they will get him’.
04:14   “It’s a man with a jacket, blue scarf, he has a cap on, a fringe beard. Moroccan appearance.”
04:22   What I remember most is just this feeling you could have done something,
04:26   and you did not do anything,
04:28   because at that time there was fear. This is obviously panic.
04:32   “Feeling of guilt?” Yes. “Could you have done something?”
04:34   I could have driven over him [the murderer].
04:36   Yes, Mr. Bosma, this moment brought you together with Geert Wilders,
04:41   you were the director of a company,
04:44   and you went, you became an intern, I believe you got 500 euros per month.
04:48   What gave you the confidence, for now Wilders of course is great, but back then he indeed…
04:54   was a one-man fraction, what made you think ‘well, I have to go to that man’?
04:58   Well, I also noticed his ardor then, he also had not a clear view of exactly what he was doing then,
05:05   because he was thrown out the VVD, and also had no campaign plan,
05:09   like, the coming year we’ll do this,
05:11   but he did have a very strong vision of what had to be said,
05:14   he was not in Parliament like many other MPs,
05:17   those who do this for a few years for their CV and then go to work for a care-institution,
05:21   here was someone who was motivated, who had somewhat of a mission, which may sound heavy,
05:25   but this was someone who was in politics out of idealism.
05:30   He brought a story not represented in Dutch politics,
05:34   not only in the field of mass immigration, Islamization, and safety and things like that,
05:38   but a very widespread feeling that in the Hague
05:40   things must be said that otherwise remained unsaid.
05:43   Also in this book, you actually tell the story of the leftist elite. Briefly summarized, you say:
05:50   the leftist elite forced immigration upon us, while the people never asked for it. Am I right?
05:57   That’s what it comes down to, it really is about the elites,
06:00   since it involves a lot of power centers in the Netherlands,
06:03   of course, it is very strange, I have found a lot of old polls,
06:06   up until 30 years ago, in which the Netherlands
06:09   in an overwhelmingly way says the influx is too large, too many foreigners, rather repatriation…
06:15   But then you talk about polls. What amazes me then is, you actually are saying,
06:22   the leftist elite enforces their will on the majority, but that majority simply votes for parties
06:27   that do this to them, so that is the democracy ?
06:31   Yes, but what we’ve seen past thirty years, and how that went in the Netherlands,
06:35   existing political parties, the major political parties, actually have operated a cartel policy,
06:40   among themselves they have — you might say agreed, although it will not be an agreement,
06:44   but it did come down to this — we do not talk with them. And we keep that voice outside the door.
06:49   So it was never possible within the political parties for wings to emerge to oppose this …
06:53   No, but every four years we as the Dutch population again went to that ballot box…
06:57   and yet again voted for those parties who did, as you say, what we did not want.
07:01   Yes, but there was no other offer.
07:04   There were no parties speaking out forcefully against mass immigration and Islamization.
07:08   The only exception to that was [Hans] Janmaat, with a totally wrong club, who has subsequently
07:13   been tackled rock and rock hard, infiltrated by the secret service, and the whole thing disrupted,
07:18   the press jumped on it relentlessly, in all possible ways,
07:21   there were assaults, Kedichem [left wing attack],
07:24   the lot of them were intimidated, and finally actually served as a role model:
07:28   ‘Look, that is what can happen to you’ …
07:31   Janmaat did not work, Geert Wilders and your party now of course are doing a lot better,
07:35   but still a majority is not voting for you.
07:39   No, people do not vote solely based on issues such as mass immigration and Islamization,
07:43   they also vote for other reasons. Thus it is undeniably true that 6 out of 10 Dutch, for example,
07:49   see mass immigration the biggest mistake since World War II, and only 13% of the Dutch people
07:55   view Islam as an enrichment for the Netherlands, but yes,
07:60   people vote for a political party for many other reasons also.
08:02   Thus maybe the Dutch do not find that to be the biggest problem.
08:06   Well, it certainly is not the most important thing when they go to the ballot box,
08:10   one also takes a lot of other things into account, that is absolutely true.
08:14   Yes, then I’d say that is democracy, and the way it works, and we see what the Dutch want.
08:20   Yes, and that would also be very good, and it would also be very good when we now…
08:24   can act as a support partner [to a government], to change a number of those things.
08:28   Yes, and that is your place at the table now. What strikes me is that in your book you say
08:33   that regardless of the political parties that rule in The Hague, actually the positions,
08:40   I believe you call them the important positions in civil society, the judges, the important positions
08:47   are mainly taken by the leftist elite.
08:49   Then I think, is the left that strong, or has the right failed so much?
08:51   Both… There has not been enough of a rightist voice in the past 20-30 years, and those positions
09:03   are in fact taken in many power centers in the Netherlands, media, academia, judges, etc.,
09:11   and this actually happened in the 70’s.
09:13   So many people in May ’68 were seriously leftized, so to speak,
09:17   and that generation has taken over power everywhere.
09:21   De Volkskrant, a Catholic newspaper, became a very left-wing newspaper ….
09:25   But the right did let it happen.
09:27   Absolutely! That’s the story James Kennedy writes, the professor,
09:30   that’s exactly what happened, the left could very easily rise to power in the seventies
09:35   because the right thought, ‘Yeah, that’s the zeitgeist,
09:32   the way it seemingly must be, we must go along with the times,
09:40   Let’s just accept it’. And they all sounded the retreat, and now we’re left in the cart.
09:46   Now you sit at table with Marc Rutte [VVD] and Maxime Verhagen [CDA], and I read in your book
09:52   that when Marc Rutte was elected party leader of the VVD, you virtually popped the champagne.
09:59   Yes, that was in the struggle with Mrs. Verdonk [ex VVD] at the time [who founded a competing party],
10:04   and we were a little afraid of Mrs. Verdonk, who naturally had a hard right-wing story.
10:09   In Parliament once Geert Wilders had called her the only bloke in the government …
10:13   Thus that left-wing liberal Rutte, we can handle him.
10:16   That’s not a question of being able to handle him,
10:18   but mainly is a question of yes, he did represent a little more of the left-liberal story in our eyes,
10:24   while Ms Verdonk was very much in our waters, so back then we were delighted with Mark Rutte.
10:28   And ultimately he became the largest, and you now will govern with him.
10:31   Well, unfortunately we do not govern, we only support, but still are at the table with him.
10:36   Okay, thank you very much, Martin Bosma.

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