01:29 |
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Well, we were talking about your arrival in Spain |
01:32 |
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with your wife, and you begin to study the Koran |
01:36 |
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in a minute and detailed way… – Yes, in order to make everybody know |
01:43 |
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what is the Koran, what is Islam, but |
01:49 |
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not to outrage anybody. I understand that in Pakistan, In India, In Bangladesh, in Sri-Lanka, |
01:55 |
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in these countries Arabic is not the mother tongue, but it is used while praying, |
02:01 |
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we read the Koran in Arabic, we prayed to Allah in Arabic, |
02:04 |
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so we had no direct relation with Allah, |
02:07 |
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we did not know who Allah is, all we had to do is to repeat the suras in Arabic |
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as they taught us, so, with the purpose to show the truth, what the Koran tells, |
02:19 |
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I tried to learn, and I found lots of things I did not know before, |
02:25 |
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Something important: What does the Koran say that we do not know? Well, there are thousands of |
02:31 |
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verses, I cannot cite them all, but the Koran says clearly, and I have no intention to upset |
02:37 |
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anybody, I tell the reality, and you yourselves can see it by reading the Koran, |
02:43 |
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the Koran says clearly: ‘kill them wherever you find them. – Kill the infidel, |
02:49 |
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– The infidel, those who are not Muslims. And regarding the discrimination of women, |
02:55 |
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hit them if they do not obey you, so the Koran teaches men that |
03:01 |
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they are allowed to hit women, and this happened when some months ago an Imam was |
03:07 |
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teaching Muslims in Catalonia… – The imam of Mataró. – Yes, the thing is that |
03:13 |
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all they do is written in the Koran. They don’t do it |
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by themselves, but because the Koran says it. |
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The Koran says clearly not to make friends with infidels. They must be persecuted and tortured |
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until they convert to Islam. Jihad must be practiced till the entire world is ruled by Allah… |
03:30 |
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Wait a moment, this is important: you got refugee status |
03:34 |
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in Spain because of your fight against |
03:37 |
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Islam. – Yes. – Because the Spanish Government had knowledge that you were in danger, and |
03:42 |
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you were granted the status. – Yes, no doubt. |
03:45 |
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The day I applied for the refugee status, the officer |
03:49 |
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asked me: ‘Are you writing a book about Islam called Islam: Religion or Punishment’? |
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I answered yes, and they told me to give them articles about me |
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from the press, videos of TV interviews in which I appear talking about Islam. |
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They had 100% knowledge about my activities regarding Islam, and they told me that |
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it was my freedom of speech. – In what year was this? |
04:16 |
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– 2006, with Zapatero (Socialist) in power. |
04:19 |
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Yes, with Zapatero in power, and they didn’t tell me |
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that here one cannot criticise Islam, or that |
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my activities can spark danger coming from Islam, so I assure you, and I can prove it, that |
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I was granted political refugee status because of talking about Islam. |
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– And what changed between then and now, Imran, that they wants t |
04:43 |
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take it away from you? – Change of government. – So the PP (Right wing) is worse? |
04:49 |
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It is the same. Well, you know why they want to revoke my status, but |
04:55 |
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the only I want to say is that in the repeal of my refugee status decision, |
05:01 |
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it appears nowhere that I might have committed any crime or violation of Spanish law. |
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There’s nothing about it, for I did not breach any law, |
05:10 |
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I haven’t – will never have any criminal record. |
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So, all they say in this resolution is that my activities |
05:19 |
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about Islam provoke Muslims and offend their religious feelings, |
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and they could commit violence, but hey, if they commit unjustified |
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violence, so why do we have to fear them? Why can’t we tell them that what they do is illegal? |
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But no, instead of halting them, they halt me if I speak (out). |
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– Like criminalizing the old lady who carries her bag, |
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in this way tempting the thief to steal it. – Yes. |
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So now we’ll try to talk with your lawyer, so that he can explain us your situation |
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Let us connect with Claudio Lobo Villanueva, Imran Firasat’s lawyer, |
06:01 |
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We’ll talk about the support you received. Is Alerta Digital mentioned somewhere by some |
06:07 |
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of the Spanish authorities? Yes, the police asked me about my links with |
06:13 |
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Alerta Digital, that so much is talked there about you? So I told them that apart from… |
06:19 |
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– The police of Madrid? – Right. Apart from |
06:22 |
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the fact that we are friends, they speak the truth, |
06:25 |
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they talk about thing nobody dare to, about controversial issues, |
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that is why Alerta Digital talks about my case, not because they are my friends, but |
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because we have a mutual respect, I have |
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great respect for AD, and I am grateful that they talk |
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about those issues which no other media want to discuss, that’s what I told the police. |
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– Excuse me, your wife is in Indonesia? – Yes, she is in Indonesia. |
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– She is not allowed to enter the country? – In spite of having the right to get all papers |
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in order to return to Spain, because my kids were born in Spain, my family has refugee status, |
07:07 |
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but they are not given the papers due to pressure |
07:10 |
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from the Islamic state. – Due to pressure from |
07:13 |
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the Islamic state of Indonesia? – Yes, I have been |
07:16 |
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requesting the papers for them for more than two years, |
07:19 |
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in spite of being in danger. But I am not given any reason, nor right to appeal. |
07:25 |
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It is very complicated. But I have no more hope that they will be allowed to come |
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– Do you have more family in Europe? – I have a sister in the UK. |
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She refuses to stay in contact with me because she says that I am an infidel, |
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for Muslims, contacts come after religion. First comes Islam, |
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and only after that come brothers, parents. |
07:49 |
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So I spent the last 3-4 years trying to convince her that ‘look, my opinion about Islam |
07:55 |
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is my personal opinion, it is not about you and our relationship’, but she refuses because |
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she says that she will be my sister again until the day I reconvert to Islam. Otherwise not. |
08:07 |
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– We have on the phone your lawyer, C.L.V., a renowned lawyer from Madrid. Welcome Claudio! |
08:13 |
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– Hello. – How are you? – Fine , thanks. – Imran’s testimony is spine-chilling, |
08:19 |
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which reveals the double standard, not only by part of the Spanish authorities, |
08:25 |
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but also of the national media. Just imagine what would be if instead of Imran’s case, |
08:31 |
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with his video which clearly shows to the public opinion the reality of Islam, |
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if instead of being an anti Islamic activist, he would be a Moroccan journalist |
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rebelling against king Mohammed VI. What would be the Spanish media saying, |
08:49 |
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all those NGOs, civil organizations, and all those religious good-will people |
08:55 |
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if the Spanish Government would have dared |
08:58 |
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to threaten that journalist with deporting him back. |
09:01 |
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But in the case of Imran Firasat, no one but AD raises a voice |
09:07 |
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about this, which is another scandal of the many taking place in the Spanish public life. |
09:13 |
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– Yes, I fully agree with that, about the regrettable double standard |
09:19 |
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in the reality of Spanish political life, and in the case of Imran this is |
09:25 |
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blatantly visible, this actual double standard. |
09:31 |
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Claudio, what is the legal situation now of Imran Firasat’s case? |
09:37 |
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It is unfortunate, he is in an extremely bad situation |
09:43 |
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in Spain, because his status as a political refugee has been revoked, |
09:49 |
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and plainly stated, he is in a limbo, |
09:55 |
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in a legal limbo, he has no papers, but he cannot be expelled |
10:01 |
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from the country. – The case is now being dealt with in the national court, right Claudio? |
10:07 |
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No, we are considering going to the national court, but |
10:13 |
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what is suitable now is an administrative appeal against the decision of the administration, |
10:19 |
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but we are considering going directly to the national court, |
10:25 |
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regarding his civil rights, what might this revocation mean |
10:31 |
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to his condition as a refugee in our country, of Imran Firasat? |
10:37 |
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Well, I can feel what he is passing through, it is a Dantesque situation, |
10:43 |
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– He can be detained at any time. – He has no papers at all in Spain, |
10:49 |
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and he has entered a vicious circle, in which he will hardly get legal residence |
10:55 |
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in Spain, but neither can he leave the country. |
11:01 |
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I would not like to be in that situation, the (sense of) abandonment is overwhelming, |
11:07 |
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and speaking again about the double standard, the administration |
11:13 |
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does not understand the situation of the other person, that returning to his homeland |
11:19 |
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would clearly mean the death sentence for him. – But this is beyond judgement, |
11:25 |
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but what options dose the government see as viable, Claudio? Extradition to Pakistan? |
11:31 |
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No, I don’t think so, because of the asylum rights themselves, it must consider |
11:37 |
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sending him to a third country willing to admit him, |
11:43 |
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in which he receives guarantees that his rights will be respected. |
11:49 |
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But nowadays I don’t think that (the government) would do it. – Claudio, do you think |
11:55 |
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that there is pressure being exerted by some Arab countries? |
12:01 |
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I don’t think so, I would not like to think that, sincerely. |
12:07 |
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I find it difficult to think about this. – Claudio, do you feel optimistic |
12:13 |
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regarding the resolution of the case? – Yes I am, no doubt. |
12:19 |
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Imran is a good fellow, he deserves to have rights respected, |
12:25 |
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that his right to voice his opinions be respected, and it is simply that |
12:31 |
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what he is doing is just criticising, showing the |
12:37 |
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real behavior of those extremist Muslims who rely on their religion. |
12:43 |
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If this is a sin, then it would be regrettable to understand it in this way. |
12:49 |
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– And first and foremost, Claudio, our astonishment that these events |
12:55 |
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and threats come from a government of which some members see themselves as Catholics. |
13:01 |
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– Yes, it is regrettable, no doubt about that. |
13:07 |
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– Well, Claudio… |
13:13 |
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(this was) the testimony of Claudio Lobos Villanueva, the lawyer for Imran Firasat. |
13:19 |
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It was clear enough to know a bit more of all |
13:25 |
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the legal context of this case. Your lawyer says he is moderately optimistic, |
13:31 |
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regarding the outcome of this case. – Yes, I trust Spanish justice. |
13:37 |
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The administration can make abusive use of its power, but Spanish justice |
13:43 |
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will not leave me in a limbo, or in danger. I am optimistic, and my lawyer too, that |
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we go to Spanish justice to ask for my rights and my freedom, |
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and they will rule in our favor, because one thing is that if they |
14:01 |
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give me refugee status for one reason, they cannot revoke it for the same reason, |
14:07 |
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and if in this country criticising Islam is a crime, then this must be |
14:13 |
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ratified in the Spanish constitution, and that if Islam is already something |
14:19 |
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valuable which cannot be criticised, |
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this has to be clearly said by the law. |
14:28 |
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But the double standard, on the one hand, everybody has |
14:31 |
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the right to freedom of speech, but if one uses this freedom of speech for talking |
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about Islam, then there is pressure, persecution, abuse of power, and all that. |