This is the sixth excerpt from a January 11 interview with Fjordman. Previously: Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5.
Below is the sixth installment of the Document.no interview, recorded on January 7 and published on January 11. It was translated for subtitles by Fjordman himself.
Many thanks to Vlad Tepes and RAIR Foundation for the subtitling:
Video transcript:
| 48:05 | Before the trial in the spring of 2012, | |
| 48:08 | there was talk that I might have to testify during the trial. | |
| 48:11 | You were also called in as a witness by [defense attorney] Geir Lippestad. | |
| 48:14 | It later turned out that he was not allowed to do this, | |
| 48:18 | to summon people as witnesses who were not eyewitnesses, but rather so-called expert witnesses. | |
| 48:24 | But there was talk that I might have to testify during the trial, | |
| 48:27 | so I finally read the entire manifesto from the first to the last page. | |
| 48:31 | This was in March and April of 2012. | |
| 48:35 | The notes I took back then were included in Part 2 of my book | |
| 48:38 | Vitne til vanvidd [Witness to Madness]. People can read them there. | |
| 48:43 | First of all, you notice that what Breivik himself writes | |
| 48:46 | is very different from all the texts he quotes from Wikipedia, for instance. | |
| 48:49 | He quotes [Wikipedia] a lot. | |
| 48:52 | In reality, he is a Wikipedia terrorist. | |
| 48:55 | He has taken dozens of texts from Wikipedia. A great deal. | |
| 48:59 | This fact has been downplayed, by the way. | |
| 49:02 | But then you read… I believe he included 20 or 30 pages of medals for the Knights Templar. | |
| 49:08 | Plastic medals worth 10-15 kroner | |
| 49:11 | which he gets for defending Christians in the Sudan and such things. | |
| 49:15 | I read this and thought that this is not just borderline insane. It is insane. Period. | |
| 49:22 | This is far beyond the threshold for what we normally view as insane. | |
| 49:25 | Think of the context here. | |
| 49:28 | This is a man who says that he will save the whole world. | |
| 49:31 | And then he gets awarded a plastic medal worth fifteen kroner which you can buy at the supermarket. | |
| 49:35 | He also designed his own parade dress uniform. | |
| 49:39 | Yes. —Göring loved to create new uniforms and orders. | |
| 49:47 | And he wanted to use [his self-designed uniform] on the first day in the courtroom. | |
| 49:53 | He was not allowed to do so, which is understandable. | |
| 49:56 | But when you consider the fact that this man wanted to present himself | |
| 50:00 | as a Commander of Knights Templar, wearing his fictitious medals in the courtroom, | |
| 50:04 | then you understand that this is something which he truly believes. | |
| 50:07 | And if he had been allowed to do so, | |
| 50:10 | it would have been impossible to judge him as sane. | |
| 50:13 | Let us apply some simple logic to the Knights Templar. | |
| 50:16 | When you read the second half of the manifesto where he himself writes, | |
| 50:19 | the Knights Templar is very prominent. | |
| 50:22 | It contains elements from the Freemasons, gloves and such things. | |
| 50:28 | [Breivik] was a member of the Freemasons. | |
| 50:33 | Moreover, we have spent ten years on not finding any Knights Templar. | |
| 50:36 | I don’t think they exist. Neither do the police, apparently. | |
| 50:39 | Then ask yourself the following: | |
| 50:42 | Why does Anders Behring Breivik claim to be a commander of a terrorist network that does not exist? | |
| 50:47 | Option number 1 is that he does this because he loves getting personal attention. | |
| 50:53 | He does not believe in this himself, but he says so in order to gain personal attention. | |
| 50:56 | This is theoretically possible. | |
| 50:59 | Option number 2 is that he genuinely believes that he is a commander of the Knights Templar. | |
| 51:03 | I would consider this to be by far the most likely option. | |
| 51:06 | This is consistent with the fact that he himself called the police from Utøya | |
| 51:09 | and stated that he was a commander of the Knights Templar. | |
| 51:14 | He wanted to appear in court to say this and had included a lot about the subject in his manifesto. | |
| 51:19 | He believed that he was commander of the Knights Templar. | |
| 51:22 | Do you think this has anything to do with his playing [many computer games]? | |
| 51:28 | If you play [computer games] as much as he did, will you not eventually enter a fantasy world? | |
| 51:37 | I use the Internet a lot myself, but not for online gaming. | |
| 51:42 | I have younger brothers who played | |
| 51:45 | [the online game] World of Warcraft before, without hurting anyone. | |
| 51:49 | But for a person who is already a little bit out of balance, this could be harmful. | |
| 51:57 | His friends visited his home, but failed to get [Breivik] to leave his room. | |
| 52:02 | He shut himself in completely. | |
| 52:07 | He is a mixture of many different things. | |
| 52:12 | Fortunately, he is a very unusual person. | |
| 52:16 | He is a so-called black swan. Black swans do appear from time to time. | |
| 52:23 | Yes. He was one that no one really expected. | |
| 52:28 | He used recipes from the Baader-Meinhof Gang to make bombs. | |
| 52:35 | With mix masters. He ground the pellets. Did he not learn this from the Baader-Meinhof? | |
| 52:42 | Yes, but he also admired al-Qaida and wanted to copy them. | |
| 52:45 | He is almost a Jihadist. | |
| 52:48 | He has a lot of pro-Islamic material in his manifesto that is never commented upon. | |
| 52:52 | Among other things, [Breivik] wanted to cooperate with Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood. | |
| 52:57 | That is not very Islamophobic. | |
| 53:00 | He also wanted to copy al-Qaida. | |
| 53:03 | The Islamic State (ISIS) had not yet been created then. | |
| 53:09 | In my opinion, the Knights Templar is a cross between al-Qaida and the Freemasons. | |
| 53:14 | The Freemasons are of course not a terrorist organization. | |
| 53:17 | But many medals, uniforms and such fictions come from there. | |
| 53:21 | How closely have you followed the books and films about Utøya and 22 July? | |
| 53:30 | I have read some of the books, | |
| 53:33 | by Geir Lippestad, Åsne Seierstad, Aage Borchgrevink and Marit Christensen. | |
| 53:40 | All of these books I have read, and quoted in my own book [about this case]. | |
| 53:43 | But they are not, maybe apart from Åsne Seierstad and Borchgrevink… | |
| 53:49 | Geir Lippestad has some interesting… | |
| 53:53 | I have never met Breivik. | |
| 53:56 | I had literally never seen him prior to [this case]. | |
| 54:01 | I had to devote some time [to the notes of] a man | |
| 54:04 | who was in daily contact with him throughout the trial. | |
| 54:07 | I could not ignore the experiences of Geir Lippestad. | |
| 54:10 | In his book, Geir Lippestad writes that Breivik’s head | |
| 54:15 | is a separate planet in a separate Solar System in a Universe set apart [from our own]. | |
| 54:22 | My question then becomes: How relevant is Breivik to the public debate, | |
| 54:26 | if he lives in a different [mental] universe from the rest of us, which he clearly does? | |
| 54:30 | Furthermore, I have spent some time thinking about the letters he has sent from prison. | |
| 54:37 | Why are they not commented upon? | |
| 54:41 | The source which I have access to, who has received several of the letters, | |
| 54:44 | has not received any more of them in the last couple of years. | |
| 54:47 | I suspect they have tightened the rules for what kind of letters he is allowed to send from prison. | |
| 54:52 | Or he may have become so ill that he is no longer capable of writing letters. | |
| 54:56 | My view is that the letters he was allowed to send | |
| 54:59 | already are very psychologically abnormal and insane. | |
| 55:04 | I suspect they know that he is insane, and that it is embarrassing when he sends… | |
| 55:10 | He wants to create Fascist kindergartens in Iceland, | |
| 55:13 | and has sent letters about this to the King [of Norway] and the Chinese embassy. | |
| 55:20 | He also compares himself to Jesus. | |
| 55:23 | Jesus only hung on the cross for three days, while he is being tortured every day. | |
| 55:27 | Actually, Jesus did not hang on the cross for three days, but [Breivik] writes things like that. | |
| 55:31 | What about the major TV series from [the national broadcaster] NRK, where you appear? | |
| 55:39 | I lived in Norway at this time | |
| 55:44 | and watched all six episodes in early 2020. | |
| 55:49 | Some of it was OK, | |
| 55:52 | but they could have done more with the resources they had at their disposal. | |
| 55:57 | I reacted [negatively] to the fact that | |
| 56:00 | one of the characters in this series is very clearly based on me. | |
| 56:05 | There is a character who writes many texts, often in English, | |
| 56:11 | who was anonymous until July 2011, who participated in international conferences | |
| 56:14 | in various countries and who appeared [from anonymity] in an interview with VG. | |
| 56:21 | This information really only fits one person: Me. | |
| 56:26 | At the same time, NRK’s drama department publicly claimed | |
| 56:30 | that this character was partly based on me, but it was not me. | |
| 56:35 | It should be mentioned that commentators in [the national newspapers] | |
| 56:38 | Aftenposten, VG, Dagbladet and Dagsavisen all thought that this [person] was me. | |
| 56:43 | The state broadcaster NRK used 106 million NOK | |
| 56:49 | on this TV series, many years and many man-hours. | |
| 56:53 | They had never contacted me. | |
| 56:56 | They confirmed this. They never sent me an email, for instance. | |
| 56:59 | This would have taken five minutes, and cost no money. | |
| 57:02 | If they had asked me to show up for a TV interview, I would probably have said no. | |
| 57:06 | However, if they had sent an email, I might have replied. I have done that before. | |
| 57:12 | Great resources were spent on making a drama series about the 22 July attacks. | |
| 57:16 | There you have a character, one clearly based on me, | |
| 57:19 | who is highlighted as the real culprit behind it all. | |
| 57:24 | [The series creators] did this without ever contacting me. | |
| 57:27 | I wrote a comment about this on Facebook in early 2020. | |
| 57:31 | It was picked up and quoted by Aftenposten, which in itself was OK. | |
| 57:37 | This triggered some trouble, including a death threat that I reported to the police. |
For a complete archive of Fjordman’s writings, see the multi-index listing in the Fjordman Files.
Thank you, Ned.