Fjordman Interview, Part 6: “Breivik Wanted to Copy al-Qaida”

This is the sixth excerpt from a January 11 interview with Fjordman. Previously: Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5.

Below is the sixth installment of the Document.no interview, recorded on January 7 and published on January 11. It was translated for subtitles by Fjordman himself.

Many thanks to Vlad Tepes and RAIR Foundation for the subtitling:

Video transcript:

48:05   Before the trial in the spring of 2012,
48:08   there was talk that I might have to testify during the trial.
48:11   You were also called in as a witness by [defense attorney] Geir Lippestad.
48:14   It later turned out that he was not allowed to do this,
48:18   to summon people as witnesses who were not eyewitnesses, but rather so-called expert witnesses.
48:24   But there was talk that I might have to testify during the trial,
48:27   so I finally read the entire manifesto from the first to the last page.
48:31   This was in March and April of 2012.
48:35   The notes I took back then were included in Part 2 of my book
48:38   Vitne til vanvidd [Witness to Madness]. People can read them there.
48:43   First of all, you notice that what Breivik himself writes
48:46   is very different from all the texts he quotes from Wikipedia, for instance.
48:49   He quotes [Wikipedia] a lot.
48:52   In reality, he is a Wikipedia terrorist.
48:55   He has taken dozens of texts from Wikipedia. A great deal.
48:59   This fact has been downplayed, by the way.
49:02   But then you read… I believe he included 20 or 30 pages of medals for the Knights Templar.
49:08   Plastic medals worth 10-15 kroner
49:11   which he gets for defending Christians in the Sudan and such things.
49:15   I read this and thought that this is not just borderline insane. It is insane. Period.
49:22   This is far beyond the threshold for what we normally view as insane.
49:25   Think of the context here.
49:28   This is a man who says that he will save the whole world.
49:31   And then he gets awarded a plastic medal worth fifteen kroner which you can buy at the supermarket.
49:35   He also designed his own parade dress uniform.
49:39   Yes. —Göring loved to create new uniforms and orders.
49:47   And he wanted to use [his self-designed uniform] on the first day in the courtroom.
49:53   He was not allowed to do so, which is understandable.
49:56   But when you consider the fact that this man wanted to present himself
50:00   as a Commander of Knights Templar, wearing his fictitious medals in the courtroom,
50:04   then you understand that this is something which he truly believes.
50:07   And if he had been allowed to do so,
50:10   it would have been impossible to judge him as sane.
50:13   Let us apply some simple logic to the Knights Templar.
50:16   When you read the second half of the manifesto where he himself writes,
50:19   the Knights Templar is very prominent.
50:22   It contains elements from the Freemasons, gloves and such things.
50:28   [Breivik] was a member of the Freemasons.
50:33   Moreover, we have spent ten years on not finding any Knights Templar.
50:36   I don’t think they exist. Neither do the police, apparently.
50:39   Then ask yourself the following:
50:42   Why does Anders Behring Breivik claim to be a commander of a terrorist network that does not exist?
50:47   Option number 1 is that he does this because he loves getting personal attention.
50:53   He does not believe in this himself, but he says so in order to gain personal attention.
50:56   This is theoretically possible.
50:59   Option number 2 is that he genuinely believes that he is a commander of the Knights Templar.
51:03   I would consider this to be by far the most likely option.
51:06   This is consistent with the fact that he himself called the police from Utøya
51:09   and stated that he was a commander of the Knights Templar.
51:14   He wanted to appear in court to say this and had included a lot about the subject in his manifesto.
51:19   He believed that he was commander of the Knights Templar.
51:22   Do you think this has anything to do with his playing [many computer games]?
51:28   If you play [computer games] as much as he did, will you not eventually enter a fantasy world?
51:37   I use the Internet a lot myself, but not for online gaming.
51:42   I have younger brothers who played
51:45   [the online game] World of Warcraft before, without hurting anyone.
51:49   But for a person who is already a little bit out of balance, this could be harmful.
51:57   His friends visited his home, but failed to get [Breivik] to leave his room.
52:02   He shut himself in completely.
52:07   He is a mixture of many different things.
52:12   Fortunately, he is a very unusual person.
52:16   He is a so-called black swan. Black swans do appear from time to time.
52:23   Yes. He was one that no one really expected.
52:28   He used recipes from the Baader-Meinhof Gang to make bombs.
52:35   With mix masters. He ground the pellets. Did he not learn this from the Baader-Meinhof?
52:42   Yes, but he also admired al-Qaida and wanted to copy them.
52:45   He is almost a Jihadist.
52:48   He has a lot of pro-Islamic material in his manifesto that is never commented upon.
52:52   Among other things, [Breivik] wanted to cooperate with Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood.
52:57   That is not very Islamophobic.
53:00   He also wanted to copy al-Qaida.
53:03   The Islamic State (ISIS) had not yet been created then.
53:09   In my opinion, the Knights Templar is a cross between al-Qaida and the Freemasons.
53:14   The Freemasons are of course not a terrorist organization.
53:17   But many medals, uniforms and such fictions come from there.
53:21   How closely have you followed the books and films about Utøya and 22 July?
53:30   I have read some of the books,
53:33   by Geir Lippestad, Åsne Seierstad, Aage Borchgrevink and Marit Christensen.
53:40   All of these books I have read, and quoted in my own book [about this case].
53:43   But they are not, maybe apart from Åsne Seierstad and Borchgrevink…
53:49   Geir Lippestad has some interesting…
53:53   I have never met Breivik.
53:56   I had literally never seen him prior to [this case].
54:01   I had to devote some time [to the notes of] a man
54:04   who was in daily contact with him throughout the trial.
54:07   I could not ignore the experiences of Geir Lippestad.
54:10   In his book, Geir Lippestad writes that Breivik’s head
54:15   is a separate planet in a separate Solar System in a Universe set apart [from our own].
54:22   My question then becomes: How relevant is Breivik to the public debate,
54:26   if he lives in a different [mental] universe from the rest of us, which he clearly does?
54:30   Furthermore, I have spent some time thinking about the letters he has sent from prison.
54:37   Why are they not commented upon?
54:41   The source which I have access to, who has received several of the letters,
54:44   has not received any more of them in the last couple of years.
54:47   I suspect they have tightened the rules for what kind of letters he is allowed to send from prison.
54:52   Or he may have become so ill that he is no longer capable of writing letters.
54:56   My view is that the letters he was allowed to send
54:59   already are very psychologically abnormal and insane.
55:04   I suspect they know that he is insane, and that it is embarrassing when he sends…
55:10   He wants to create Fascist kindergartens in Iceland,
55:13   and has sent letters about this to the King [of Norway] and the Chinese embassy.
55:20   He also compares himself to Jesus.
55:23   Jesus only hung on the cross for three days, while he is being tortured every day.
55:27   Actually, Jesus did not hang on the cross for three days, but [Breivik] writes things like that.
55:31   What about the major TV series from [the national broadcaster] NRK, where you appear?
55:39   I lived in Norway at this time
55:44   and watched all six episodes in early 2020.
55:49   Some of it was OK,
55:52   but they could have done more with the resources they had at their disposal.
55:57   I reacted [negatively] to the fact that
56:00   one of the characters in this series is very clearly based on me.
56:05   There is a character who writes many texts, often in English,
56:11   who was anonymous until July 2011, who participated in international conferences
56:14   in various countries and who appeared [from anonymity] in an interview with VG.
56:21   This information really only fits one person: Me.
56:26   At the same time, NRK’s drama department publicly claimed
56:30   that this character was partly based on me, but it was not me.
56:35   It should be mentioned that commentators in [the national newspapers]
56:38   Aftenposten, VG, Dagbladet and Dagsavisen all thought that this [person] was me.
56:43   The state broadcaster NRK used 106 million NOK
56:49   on this TV series, many years and many man-hours.
56:53   They had never contacted me.
56:56   They confirmed this. They never sent me an email, for instance.
56:59   This would have taken five minutes, and cost no money.
57:02   If they had asked me to show up for a TV interview, I would probably have said no.
57:06   However, if they had sent an email, I might have replied. I have done that before.
57:12   Great resources were spent on making a drama series about the 22 July attacks.
57:16   There you have a character, one clearly based on me,
57:19   who is highlighted as the real culprit behind it all.
57:24   [The series creators] did this without ever contacting me.
57:27   I wrote a comment about this on Facebook in early 2020.
57:31   It was picked up and quoted by Aftenposten, which in itself was OK.
57:37   This triggered some trouble, including a death threat that I reported to the police.
 

For a complete archive of Fjordman’s writings, see the multi-index listing in the Fjordman Files.

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