A Tale of Two Opinions

Europeans are of two minds.

One of those minds is a small one, shared by relatively few people — European commissioners, most members of the European Parliament, the leaders and members of establishment parties in the member states, elite academics, and media apparatchiks.

The second mind is the one shared by ordinary European citizens.

The first mind is of the opinion that Islam belongs in Europe: “Everyone knows that!”

The second mind believes that Islam has never belonged in Europe, does not belong there now, and never will belong there.

The first opinion is well-represented by Frans Timmermans. Mr. Timmermans is currently serving as first vice president of the European Commission, and is in line to succeed Jean-Claude Juncker as the next president of the European Commission. That is, if the new “populist” European Parliament doesn’t withhold its support for him; we’ll know after this week’s elections. The European Commission doesn’t answer to the European Parliament, or any other body but itself, but it might be reluctant to seat a new president who had already been given a vote of no confidence by its alleged “parliament”.

Anyway, here’s what Mr. Timmermans had to say about Islam in Europe. Many thanks to MissPiggy for the translation, and to Vlad Tepes for the subtitling:

In contrast, the video below highlights the results of a phone-in poll in Germany. More than 95% of the callers said: “No, Islam does NOT belong in Europe.”

Mind you, this was a self-selected sample — people who watched a certain TV program and decided to call in. But it’s still significant. And I doubt the citizens of France, Britain, Denmark, or Italy are any less “Islamophobic” than the Germans.

Once again, Many thanks to MissPiggy for the translation, and to Vlad Tepes for the subtitling:

Frans Timmermans is Dutch. Maybe the Dutch are more tolerant and understanding than the Germans. Maybe they, unlike the ignorant and unwashed of the European hinterlands, are aware of Islam’s rich place in European history, which it has held since 600 years prior to the time it was founded.

Video transcript #1:

00:00   So at the end of this chapter, a yes or no question that you have probably heard at one time or the other.
00:06   Perhaps you can give us a clear answer, does Islam belong to Europe?
00:12   Since 2,000 years already.

Video transcript #2:

00:00   Does Islam belong to Germany? We asked you this question over a half an hour ago and you could decide per telephone survey.
00:07   “In The Name of The People” is the name of our interactive series this week in celebration of the 70th anniversary of
00:11   our German constitution. Today we look at the topic of freedom of religion.
00:15   You called in and here are the results:
00:19   4.66 % said: YES, Islam belongs to Germany.
00:24   Most said “NO” with 95.34 %.
00:30   I would just like to add that we had a total of 15,267 viewers call in to vote by telephone.
00:38   They decided in the name of the people, and for that reason we will now show you
00:42   the report called “No, Islam doesn’t belong to Germany”.
00:46   This construction site in Northern Erfurt has created a major debate.
00:50   Many might not be aware that this debate is related to Article 4 of our constitution and
00:56   the guidelines for religious freedom which are found there.
00:59   This will be the first mosque in central Germany that will be recognizable from a distance.
01:06   Suleman Malik showed me the construction site. He represents the Islamic Ahmadiyya group who own the building.
01:16   Just like a church is important for Christians, and for Jews the synagogue, for Muslims a mosque is a meeting place.
01:24   I’m not in favour of a mosque being built there. — Yes, OK. — That’s my opinion.
01:28   Whoever lives here should adhere to the constitution.
01:32   In this arena of conflicting priorities, this one question is heavily disputed: Does Islam belong to Germany?
01:38   This is the question we posed to you, dear viewers.
01:42   In the name of the people — The verdict
01:50   You have made your choice. The majority of our viewers said NO, Islam does not belong to Germany.
01:56   We now have the results. How does that make you feel? How do you take this?
02:01   I take it as a challenge to explain to my fellow citizens that Islam has been a part of Germany for hundreds of years, in Prussia.
02:10   The Soldier-King William the First made the first contact Muslim soldiers, for example. They exchanged presents.
02:16   Even Goethe studied Islam. The best way is to seek a dialogue, reach out to one another and help them understand.
02:23   When the five million Muslim that live in Germany belong here, then of course what they identify with, their religion also belongs
02:29   to Germany. How do you plan to reduce this rejection? In practical terms? Though communication and working together.
02:42   Through talking with each other, and not just talking about each other.

16 thoughts on “A Tale of Two Opinions

  1. EU prosperity depends on advanced science and technology forming a productive, manufacturing-based export economy. Think Royal Dutch Shell, Glencore, Volkswagen, Daimler, BASF, etc. To support this money making effort the people in trades are well educated and trained. Productivity advances need more and more investment and societal cohesion. One data point: the number of patents granted to one small country, Israel, are much more numerous than all Muslim nation-states combined.

    Importing a large group of people who not only can not contribute to societies advances, but cost society a large part of the discretionary budget is a killer of advanced societies. The recent imports are removing the high-trust social cohesion needed for an advanced civilization.

    In The Collapse of Complex Societies (1988), by Joseph Tainter, the mechanism of collapse is identified. It is the Law of Diminishing Returns. He said at the time that collapse was also unlikely because of a strong UK, EU, USSR and America. Gulp.

    • »EU prosperity depends on advanced science and technology«

      Not only prosperity, it’s pure survival of population. Look at the history of Germany and Sweden (the two countries I know): w/o advanced industry only about a third of the population could survive within their borders.

      Comparing numbers of granted patents is excellent!

  2. “Maybe the Dutch are more tolerant and understanding…”

    Well, The Dutch are a very tolerant and understanding bunch, but they very well realize that Islam is the biggest danger the country faces since 1945, and the biggest danger Western Civilization and the entire world have faced since it’s arrival on the historic stage 14 centuries ago.

    In fact, in the two most tolerant countries of Western-Europe, The Netherlands and Denmark, it is relatively easier to discuss about the problems with Islam than in the surrounding countries like Britain, Germany, France, Belgium, let’s not even mention Sweden, Norway and Finland. The you can even get arrested for simply mentioning the I-word in a not thoroughly positive way in public. That’s as bad as it is already.

    This Timmermans is a deeply hated figure all over Europe, including in the Netherlands, where they have many un-flattering nicknames for him.
    This figure is even much more dangerous than Juncker, who is already incredibly bad.

    We all try to convince our relatives, friends and colleagues not to vote for the socialists, because this may spell the very end of our civilization as we know it.

    If he becomes the new president of the European Commission, either through ballot fraud (very possible in Brussels) or beccause the commissions ignore the wish of the parliament, I predict a mass uprising in Europe against the Brussels dictators, that makes the yellow vests look like nothing more than just a beginning of what was to come.

    • Timmermans is a hard-line communist with a clever way of twisting his words so that he sounds plausible to those without intellect or training. He is indeed a very dangerous man.

  3. the real question is does any totalitarian political system belong in Europe. the politicians can’t say that the totalitarian political Islamic system doesn’t belong in Europe because that would mean their beloved communist political system wouldn’t belong in Europe either.

    • Democracy is all but dead, time to bring back the Kaiser with an Iron Chancellor like Bismarck to clean up the mess and argue about so called democracy after all is said and done to right the ship of state again.

  4. “Islam has been a part of Germany for hundreds of years”, says the imam.
    Well, in a way……..

    “When I have time, I must put it into German so that every man may see what a foul and shameful book it is.”
    Martin Luther on the Koran

    • Sounds like Martin Luther, Thomas Jefferson, Mark Twain and Winston Churchill had a similar view of what George Bush hastily re-named the Religion of Peace…just before he allowed all those Saudi nationals to leave the country without an exit interview. So much for national security post-9/11.

  5. It’s disturbing how little Mr. Timmermans knows about Islam or history in general. He says Islam has belonged to europe 2,000 years already.
    It’s a bit problematic since 2,0000 years ago Islam didn’t exists at all.
    It was invented much later.

  6. This is typical System-TV. The 2nd Video.

    There is NO FREEDOM OF RELIGION in the German Constitution. There is a freedom of BELIEF.

    Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany
    Art 4
    (1) The freedom of faith, conscience and freedom of religious and philosophical confession are inviolable.
    (2) Undisturbed religious practice is guaranteed.
    (3) No one may be forced against his conscience for military service with the weapon. The details are governed by a federal law.

    System-TV always talks of “freedom of religion”. But you are allowed freedom of faith and confession. And practice your religion undisturbed.

    These laws were drawn up after the holocaust. They were never intended for a sick Ideology.


  7. We’ll know that the corner has been turned, concerning the islamic invasion of Europe, including the UK, when we see the demolition of mosques throughout the continent.

  8. This comment is fromFrance.

    I hope this Frans Timmermans doesn’t become the next president of the European Commision. If he is and succeds Drunkard Junker, we are in even more trouble.

    That an ignorant politico like Timmermans could rise so high in the European Union bureaucracy tells a lot about the rottenness of this institution.

    Saying that Islam has been in Europe for 2000 years is an horrific lie. As an above comment noted, and as everyone should know, Islam didn’t even exist 2000 years ago, as its founder Muhammad was born much later, around 600 AD.

    • He is very dangerous man, and this applause from the audience !!!, how manipulated this people are is unbelievable, lies , lies nothing else , He can’t win ,!!, it will be totally end of Europe..

  9. This comment is from France.

    If this Dutch politico Timmermans becomes the next president of the European Commission, we are in even more trouble than before.

    That such a high bureaucrat could say that Islam has been in Europe for 2000 years is an horrific lie. Islam didn’t exist anywhere 2000 years ago ( as a comment noted.) That a dangerous Dhimmi like Timmermans could rise to a top position in the European Union bureaucracy shows the rottenness of this institution… Maybe the coming European elections this week-end will help clean it up a bit.

    The Germans who said that Islam doens’t belong in Germany are of course right. Islam doesn’t belong anywhere but in Hell.

    Islam is not a religion but a warlike and deceitful sect that tries since its beginnings to conquer and dominate the world and steal its riches.

    Many thanks to Gates of Vienna and to its wonderful staff for the great articles it publishes.

  10. “We are now at the point where we must begin to think about what comes after—and this will necessarily be some form of tra­ditionalism. Because individualism makes our societies so weak (re­sulting, as we have seen, in an unwillingness to defend our civilization, to resist mass immigration, and even to reproduce, among other things), our society shall either regress and regenerate, or it will be replaced.”

    From Thierry Baudet’s essay “Houellebecq’s Unfinished Critique of Liberal Modernity”.

  11. Timmermans has already tried to force “regime change” in Poland… What bet that, if he becomes the EU comission president, he will try to dump the “cultural enrichers” on Eastern Europe?

Comments are closed.