46 thoughts on “Bosnian Croat General Commits Suicide After Final ICTY Verdict”

1. small % of Muslims in Hague tribunal I think because 2 reasons:
   – Saudi involvement in management of jihadi staff. Many were evacuated to places like Afghanistan and Sudan.
   – overall small % of Muslims in Yugoslavia

   Hague tribunal is very useful, decent and just institution.
   Hopefully very soon we will witness many more important cases and convictions.
   …

   • Surely you know by now it doesn’t take a lot of Muslims to create a huge ruckus. They always achieve way beyond their number.

     • I tried to explain why there are not many Yugoslavian Muslims in Hague.
       Baron implies that court is biased but that may not be the case.
       …

       • You do not provide any relevant data. The significant number would NOT be the number of Muslims in the former Yugoslavia, but how many were in the areas where the wars were fought, and more importantly, what was the percentage of Muslims among the men fighting.

         There was no civil war in Slovenia, and not much in Croatia. I never heard of any fighting in Montenegro or Macedonia, although I suppose there may have been some.

         There were two major theaters: Bosnia and the western part of Serbia, what is now Kosovo. As I recall, the three groups (Serbs, Croats, and Bosniaks) were at near-parity in Bosnia, with the Muslims having slightly larger numbers. I don’t know about the numbers of Serbs and Albanians in the Serbian war, but I assume the area of the fighting was only in western part, so that the relative strengths of the two groups may not have been too lopsided in favor of the Serbs.

         If you have any actual figures — and I admit that I don’t — please make them available to us.

         • These data are from the 1991 Census for Bosnia and Herzegovina and 1981 Census for Kosovo, because 1991 Census was boycotted by Kosovo Albanians and 1991 data for Kosovo are just an estimate by Serbian Institute of Statistics:

           Bosnia and Herzegovina 1991: Muslims* 43.5%, Serbs 31.2%, Croats 17.4%

           *on 28th September 1993 the Muslims changed their national name into Bosniaks, but in 1991 only 1285 people in Bosnia and Herzegovina declared as Bosniaks and 1 898 963 declared as Muslims

           Kosovo 1981: Albanians 77.4%, Serbs 13.2%

           Btw, Kosovo is to the south of Serbia, not to the west.

           Regarding general Praljak, he was a film director before the war:
           http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0695182/

           He was born in 1945 in Čapljina, a town in Bosnia and Herzegovina, or to be more precise in the south of Herzegovina.

           He graduated from three faculties at the University of Zagreb:
           Faculty of Electrotechnics in 1970 – engineer of electrotechnics
           Faculty of Philosophy in 1971 – graduated philosophy and sociology
           Academy for Theatre, Film and Television in 1972 – movie directing

           In 1991 he volunteered into the Croatian Army, eventually he reached the rank of Brigadier of Croatian Army.
           In 1992 he served as a liaison officer between Croatian Army and Croat Defense Council (HVO) in Bosnia and Herzegovina.
           In 1993 he switched to Croat Defense Council (HVO), where he reached the rank of Colonel General, becoming the Chief-of-Staff of HVO.

           At the end of war he retired an became a director of a company which produced paint for ships.

           Also, the ABC article is wrong. He didn’t say that he took poison, it was said by his lawyer once he took it.
           General Praljak said: “General Slobodan Praljak is not a war criminal. I refuse your verdict with contempt.” And then he drank poison.

         • Thank you; this is useful information.

           The population statistics are the kind of thing I was looking for. In the Kosovo war, however, you would have to add in the Serbs that came in from the rest of Serbia for the war — not the whole population, obviously, but more than just the ones who lived in Kosovo.

           The stats show that there were at least as many Muslims in the fighting areas as the other groups, yet they only made up only 10.6% of the indictments. Unless they were significantly better-behaved than Serbs or Croats, something fishy was going on at ICTY.

           Kosovo looks like it’s in the southwest of Serbia to me (https://gatesofvienna.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/balkanroute.png). So I guess I could say south or west with equal accuracy!

   • Many were flown in from Afganistan by the Al-Qaeda to fight jihad in the Balkans; they were international jihadists. Bill Clinton, was thus very influential in giving these a shot in the arm. It is a fair guess that they felt emboldened by this yet another Western stupidity, and hypocrisy. Whether there was a straight line to 911 noone can answer.
     If there is a major attack in Europe by ISIS, who will be tried? Merki or some small fish?

   • How about some examples of the Hague’s utility?

     Likewise for these upcoming, “important cases and convictions?”

     • https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2014/11/11/video-albanian-muslims-captured-christian-serbs-to-remove-their-organs-while-they-were-still-alive/

       The crime that destroyed Yugoslavia for the sake of muslims is only matched by the crimes of the Pirate against the Jews when the Pirate looted and raped the infidels as allah The b said.

       Other Hague courts exist that prosecute and persecute Wilders, Tommy Robinson, Robert Spencer, Geller, Jayda, Paul Weston : Can democracy Save Britain. . . . etc. All for the sake of muslims. As Yugoslavia was destroyed for the sake of muslims.

       What’s beautiful in the civilized west is freedom of the press and disinterested attitudes. Hahahhha Just we have the habit of stating things just the opposite: muslims were raping, killing, maiming, attacking, torturing, Serbs. Saudi and Turkish and western media just said the opposite. Result: oh yeah the west went :that extra mile to establish peace”. It’s a tradition that the west and muslims always want peace.

       THEY ALSO established peace in the TURKISH CALIPHATE IN northern Cyprus. Alhamdulillah parrots the west no turks lives were lost. Big relief for the west. Phew

       We will establish more Muslim courts in the civilized Europe when the current civil wars in Europe become more frequent and deadlier.
       Hey the west … go back to sleep and zombiedom, we deafeated Hitler. That’s enough. The war that ended all wars that are caused by stupidity and Treason.

       To hell with Traitors.

       • Your post, like many others, brings up an important point.

         Lots of posts have talked about European natives rising up and tossing out the Muslim invaders. Given the number of Muslims in Europe and the cohesiveness of Muslim areas, this will involve a tightly-fought civil war whose outcome is not certain by any means.

         The huge problem is foreign intervention. Patriot fighters will have to deal not only with the opposing forces on the ground, but the organized international security and court system supported by the EU and UN. Any nationalist movement that wants to succeed will have to take the strong possibility of this intervention into account, and take steps beforehand to offset its effects.

         I do not discount the strong possibility that such intervention is driven by bribes originating in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states. A little bribe goes a long way when applied in the correct places.

         • RonaldB-

           Looking at current demographic trends Western Europe has about 10 years to save itself, if you include males up to 50 years old among those males who would stand up to defend Europe as we know (knew?) it.

           The current troubles in Saudi and the Gulf are a positive for Europe and the West in general. They are a sign of money problems among some nations, and an obvious sign of political disunity.

     • the most known cases are “president” of Sudan for Darfur genocide, Rwanda genocide case, and Lockerbie cases. Also some clients from Congo and Uganda.

       should be many many more.
       Assad.
       Iran.
       Hezbollah.
       Saudi, Qatari authorities.
       North Korea.
       Russia for MH17, political assassinations and war in Ukraine.
       …

       • Your list of upcoming cases reads like a neocon’s fever dream.

         • so you like them all, eh?
           confess.
           …

   • As I said in my previous post, only small fish gets prosecuted, or those that end up on the wrong side. In this case, Serbian and Croat officers who, unlike the international MSM, knew they were fighting jihadists. The countries that delivered them are hardly a paragon of clean justice; they simply wanted to buy themselves a ticket into EU, and it’s benefit system.
     The US withdraw from the ICJ under Bush fearing her generals could be prosecuted for the same crimes that these Balkan military officers – who believed fought for their country, whereas the US generals fight imperial wars outside US proper.
     The ICJ also seems to make a dubious distinction between bombing wedding parties from 10,000 feet killing dozens, and pulling the trigger on the ground.
     The best way it could serve justice is to dissolve itself.

     • No bureaucracy existing on OPM (other people’s money) is going to dissolve itself. It will continue to expand its scope and influence to increase the salary and prestige of the head bureaucrats.

2. My brother served in Bosnia.
   He said you could trust a Serbs word, even if they came across as the most violent. The muslims would promise all sorts but generally go against their word.

3. Here’s the situation.

   An international court should not be evaluating participants in a civil war. They are not familiar with the details of the fighting or the issues. They have no stake in the outcome.

   The result will be this. In any significant war, especially a civil war, there will be atrocities and injustices. Much of the time, ethnic groups are trying to pursue their own interests.

   A country will almost always be better off when the ethnic groups fighting are able to sort themselves out, often with killing of innocents, and establish enclaves with relatively homogeneous populations. The process is messy, but when the people themselves do the sorting, the result is often permanent and functional.

   International involvement screws that all up. The prosecutions are random or, worse yet, influenced by outside bribery. Generally, the chaotic situations leading to the war are perpetuated. For example, if there is ever a war to eliminate Muslims from parts of Europe, there will surely be a tribunal to judge the non-Muslim forces. Heaven help the losing side. There is always an international pressure to indict Israel soldiers for virtually any action needed to keep Israel safe, and the only reason such indictments are not actually made are 1)US pressure; 2) Israel is a powerful country and its not entirely safe to take strong steps against the Israeli military.

   Incidentally, a losing side can look forward to being permanently hunted and harassed if the side represents European culture or nationalities.

4. “Justice’ my rear end, who answers for the thousands of innocent Serb civilians brutally murdered by the 70+ days of air strikes,, oh sorry, that’s what NATO and others call ‘collateral damage’.

5. Some facts
   https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2014/11/11/video-albanian-muslims-captured-christian-serbs-to-remove-their-organs-while-they-were-still-alive/

   • Horror, !!

6. Somebody on this thread commented: “Hague tribunal is very useful, decent and just institution.”

   Nothing could be further from the truth. The type of people who lobby to sit on the bench of the ICC (it is a revolving bench) are the very worst of judges: vain, glory-seeking and eager to mete out “justice” to anybody and everybody hauled before them.

   I know one such Australian judge. He dedicated his professional life to self-promotion, nationally and internationally. A self-declared homosexual (only after his mother died), he would give a speech about himself and his sexuality before an opened refrigerator door in a darkened kitchen. He was also a pedophile (I would use “is”, but my only source is a doctor who was one of his “boys” in the 1970’s, so I can’t be certain he is still a practising pedophile) catapulted from obscurity – in terms of his standing in the legal-judicial community – to become the President of the New South Wales Court of Appeal in 1984-85 and then went on to become a judge of the High Court of Australia. And then spent years trying to get a spot on the ICC/ICJ – he is vehemently anti-Israel, it is his pet peeve.

   I have no doubt that the composition of the ICC is full of such “personalities”; they are not all pedophiles of course, but they are egomaniacs driven by a lust for glory, status and fame. The USA is wise to remain outside its purview.

   • Public Choice Theory describes how bureaucrats are self-interested power seekers, as venial and ruthless as any industrialist. International bureaucracies add an extra layer of non-accountability and if not examined too closely, prestige.

     By delegating our rights, powers and interests to international bureaucracies, we are truly forging our own chains.

   • Julius-

     There are plenty of vainglorious practitioners of ‘alternative lifestyles’ among the diplomatic set as well.

     Exactly the sort of person the average citizen would NOT want representing them in a foreign capital.

7. I don’t know the facts, but I know serbs and I know muslims.
   In my book any nationality involved in killing muslims is my friend.

8. Someone commented:

   1. “””””Hague tribunal is very useful, decent and just institution.””””””

   “The Curate’s Egg” comes to mind. But in its original sense (I would not eat an egg that is bad in parts)

   2. “””””””Hopefully very soon we will witness many more important cases and convictions.”””””””

   I hear that the man who suicided was the last victim of (what I strongly suspect to be a) witchhunt – this Tribunal will close after this.

9. The whole Balkans saga is a seething mess of corruption, from the supposed massacre at Sebrenica to the ‘occupation by immigration’ of Kosovo.

   The Serbs should be considered heroes, not dragged through an inept judicial fable generating contortion of so-called justice.

   I wonder what donations the Clinton Foundation received as a result of those times, was there a presidential revolving door?

   • I believe that it was Madame Hillaryous’ doing. She has been taking the Palestinian’s side for 30+ years that I know of, along with having their assistance with narcotics imports, if you know what I Mena.

   • MC , you are 100 % correct , the Serbs got a very raw deal in that phony war which destroyed the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia in which NATO and the EU (the new Fourth Reich) took sides. What irks me the most after all of the anti Serb propaganda, the stealing of Kosovo and the horrific air strikes The EU has the nerve to ‘invite’ these subdued vassal states into their dictatorship.

10. Shades of things to come to UK and the rest of Europe. Our reality is that our entire Media is in the pockets of Islam. This has een and still is an ongoing Islamic takeover. I do not think people fully comprehend just how deep and insidious this Islamisation is and how strong. I know people who appear fully to comprehend the dangers that the Moslem Brotherhood and OIC represent but still do not realise how far this has gone. Ourentire elite have sold out to “Globalism” that is but a front for the “Caliphate”. The level of betrayal is shocking and will bemuse later generations why we allowed this to happen. I know these things because I am a Churchman and we have our own sources of information. Sweden is gone and France and Germany are not far behind. The scale of the betrayal is appalling. The greatest crme in history. Trump represents a kick-back but it may be too late.

    • Given God’s record of paying everybody back for their crimes, it is kind of fitting to pay the western NATO democracies back for their support in the destruction of Yugoslavia. Western EU will be like Yugoslavia 2.0.

    • The 100 page Introduction to “Mohammed’s Koran: Why Muslims Kill For Islam” demonstrates this scenario. It can be proven that for at least 150 years before 9/11, the West’s experts on Islam knew that Islam was a religion of war, an ideology that was more dehumanizing than National Socialism.

      https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mohammeds-Koran-Muslims-Kill-Islam/dp/0995584907

      For some strange reason, the Counter Jihad Movement seems unaware that this book exists (upon publication in the UK it went straight to No.1 on Amazon). In the UK alone it has received nearly 500 five star reviews in the past few months. Whilst receiving not one attempted refutation by the media, the book is clearly considered to be so dangerous that all three book launches were destroyed by the paid agents of the deficit-spending state (i.e. MPs, police and self-styled “antifa”).

      The Grand Lie (that “Islam is a religion of peace”) was initiated by a Republican President in the days after 9/11. But the US/NATO/EU adoption of jihadis as a covert terrorist army in Afghanistan and Yugoslavia in the last decades of the 20th century clearly preceded the official re-writing of the history and doctrines of Islam.

      We really are in the kind of dystopia outlined by Orwell in Nineteen Eighty Four, where English Socialism broadcasts:”Islam is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength”. The power of propaganda is so great that this book is still taught on the school syllabus in the UK. And the Left cannot even see that their hero Orwell warned them of what they would become.

      • I suggest you find a Brit to review the book, and then I’ll post it here along with a cover image, Amazon links, and anything else that is useful. Just email me: gatesofvienna [at] chromatism [dot] net

11. Btw, the ICTY (International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia) disregarded the role of Arab fighters who fought in Afghanistan and came to Bosnia and Herzegovina in 1992.

    From 19th November 1992 they were part of 7th brigade of the 3rd Corps of Army of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

    Already in January of 1993 they attacked Croat Defense Council positions in Busovača and in April of 1993 in Zenica they kidnapped and killed Croat Defense Council commander (Živko Totić).

    From August 13rd 1993 they were formally part of “El Mudžahid” battalion which was subordinated to the 3rd Corps of Army of Bosnia and Herzegovina (HQ Zenica).

    They were cutting heads with sabres of Croat civilians and Croat Defense Council (HVO) prisoners of war in Central Bosnia. They were desecrating Catholic churches in Croat villages.

    ICTY could not determine wether they were subordinated to the Army of Bosnia and Herrzegovina, which is ludicrous, because they operated from its territory and its bases and enjoyed public support of Bosnian Muslim leadership. But, that is the ICTY.

    This book by Charles Shrader gives a good overview of the situation in Central Bosnia:
    http://educacion-holistica.org/notepad/documentos/War/History/The%20Muslim-Croat%20Civil%20War%20in%20Central%20Bosnia%2C%20A%20Military%20History%201992-1994.pdf

12. These are some of the videos about Arab and Bosnian Muslim jihadis in the ranks of Army of Bosnia and Herzegovina:

    7th brigade (Bosnian Muslim jihadis):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zll0wjXAHSw

    El Mudžahid battalion (Arab jihadis):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTo9723IZxU

13. RonaldB wrote…”The result will be this. In any significant war, especially a civil war, there will be atrocities and injustices. Much of the time, ethnic groups are trying to pursue their own interests.”

    This was not in essence a civil war at all, but a war fomented by US and EU Imperialism on a small divided country. Especially British, German, French and American Imperialist powers created this war and carried it out using their puppets.

    Especially the Serbs led in the main by Milosevic had to fight on all of these fronts.

    It was a war fought and promoted by world capitalism, the world capitalist system.

    It was fought for interests of that capitalist system even yet not clearly understood, but certainly it was a continuation of the war against communism, since these interests saw Milosevic as a communist, and it was also fought by the emerging New World Order. Soros was prominent.

    I can say much more but the statement by RonaldB as I quoted above in a representative paragraph is extremely misleading,

    • “the statement by RonaldB as I quoted above in a representative paragraph is extremely misleading,”

      So Felix Quigley claims that the Bosnian and Kosovo conflicts were simply a war sponsored by international capitalism, and that because I designated it as a civil war, I went against the typical Marxist mindless boilerplate that he uses to evaluate events.

      “It was fought for interests of that capitalist system even yet not clearly understood”

      For the record, I wish the Serbs had won, and I think it was a war crime of the first magnitude that NATO became involved in attacking and bombing the Serb forces. But trying to apply 19th century Marxist boilerplate to understanding the conflict is like trying to apply the rules of alchemy to understand the chemical reactions involved in cell biology.

14. This is the most revealing point made in this discussion. I think it was Rita who commented…”I hear that the man who suicided was the last victim of (what I strongly suspect to be a) witchhunt – this Tribunal will close after this.”

    True in a technical sense but this Tribunal has to be seen and understood as an event on a continuum.

    Nor do I think anybody has mentioned that there is a very close connection between the political assassination of Slobodan Milosevic and other Serbs, this recent sad case of the Croat General, and the political assassination of Donald Trump with the intention of impeachment.

    The trial of Milosevic has got huge lessons for today. Milosevic as a leader had only one real fault, he was too lenient and too democratic, he and his wife a bit multicultural, infected a more than a bit by that aspect of Stalinism, a form of pacifism not revolutionary socialism as I am.

    His greatest battle was in his self defence in his trial.

    He decided to defend himself, called the British Judge always Mister May, called the prosecution led by another Brit called “Nice” only always “The Other Side”, and he ran reels round them, even though he was ailing.

    This trial is very similar to the methods employed by Meuller even though I fear Trump does not fully understand that.

    It all represented the ending of capitalist democracy sometimes known as parliamentary democracy and the move to something else which we need to examine.

    I have written on my facebook of the strange case of Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer ignoring this case.

15. Milosevic was no angel. My Serbian ex-wife stood up for him, and I now know she was right to distrust the Kosovan Muslims, but she was blind to the Serbs’ persection of ethnic Hungarians, though she was partly one herself.

    • It has been said “it is never over in the Balkans, it never is”, which I think means that age old hatreds just continue through the centuries.

    • Mark H
      You need to explain this Serb persecution of ethnic Hungarians…It is a horrific claim…you need to give some historical source…you have implicated Milosevic in this and you need to explain that too

16. Mark H writes…Milosevic was no angel. My Serbian ex-wife stood up for him, and I now know she was right to distrust the Kosovan Muslims, but she was blind to the Serbs’ persection of ethnic Hungarians, though she was partly one herself.

    What was the basis that since you raise it your ex stood up for Milosevic?

    That suggests that you yourself did not “stand up” for Milosevic…Correct or wrong conclusion by me?

    This is a discussion can you elaborate?

17. Ronald B has attacked me above and insulted my method of analysis by calling me a “boilerplater” and also insulted people like Marx, Engels, Lenin and Trotsky by using the same term.

    The whole of the Media claim was that it was a civil and ethnic war and that the Serbs were the instigators and carrying out ETHNIC cleansing, a word that originated in US ruling class circles.

    I am not setting out to insult Ronald B only just pointing out that his piece left out totally the role of these great powers in this conflict.

    The word for that is “Imperialism”.

    Perhaps the differences could have been settled, for example by independence for these states like Croatia, also the Krajina in the same deal, with friendship and not a shot being fired.

    And with that friendship could have resulted a federation of INDEPENDENT states which traded with each other and which cooperated against the Muslim and Immigration threats.

    But we know that the CIA promoted the expulsion of the Serbs from Krajina.

    THAT is what Ronald B leaves out

    Why does he leave that out? He leaves it out because he has a benevolent attitude towards Imperialism.

    It seems that he is trying to hide the role of Imperialism, represented by such as the CIA, in this and other such conflicts.

    I have no idea why he does that.

    But it seems to me that he does indeed do that.

18. RonaldB has not answered…If the US and the CIA were interested in and promoting Croatian independence and if in Operation Storm the CIA was aiding in driving all of the Serb population out of the Krajina…

    What was the political interest of the CIA, US, Britain, France and others in doing this?

    Or did they just happen to slip on a banana skin and end up on some mountain side in Croatia.

    This is my problem with the political positions being taken up by RonaldB…things just happen according to him, the US and British Governments just happen to be importing Jihadists to cut the heads off Christian or Communist Serbs.

    What was in the minds of the US in sending across the CIA into Croatia to encourage and direct the ethnic cleansing of Serbs from the Krajina and to aid in the setting up of the Independent State of Croatia…was it simply support for a rightful independence or wass there an ulterior reason for the involvement of the US and others…Need to know this

    I am not suggesting that RonaldB agrees with this but I am simply asking what were the political aims of these Governments?

    I mean, reasonably, that must be the very first question that needs to be asked and answered because it relates so obviously to the present.

19. Excellent article, Baron. Lots of new insights.

20. Interesting commentary on this situation from another site:

    http://thermidormag.com/cyanide-and-myth-making/

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