Will Europe Collapse Without Muslim Immigration?

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Will Europe Collapse Without Muslim Immigration?

by Fjordman

Will Europe collapse without continued Muslim immigration? That seems to be the view of senior EU officials such as Federica Mogherini.

Mogherini, an Italian former Communist, is the current High Representative of the European Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy. This basically makes her the EU’s Minister for Foreign Affairs. She gave an interesting interview with the major Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera in early February 2017.

In the interview, Mogherini claimed that mass migration is impossible to stop. She further stated that the European economy would become paralyzed and that Europe would “collapse” demographically without continued immigration.[1]

Admittedly, in this particular paragraph, Mogherini did not specifically mention the words Islam, Islamic or Muslim. However, on other occasions, she has made it abundantly clear that Muslim immigration is part of what Europe needs to avoid a collapse.

Federica Mogherini made such remarks at an Islam in Europe conference in June 2015.[2] She then dismissed any notion of a clash between Islam and the West, stating that “Islam holds a place in our Western societies. Islam belongs in Europe. It holds a place in Europe’s history, in our culture, in our food and — what matters most — in Europe’s present and future.” Europeans should celebrate “diversity,” which includes Islam. She further stated that “I am not afraid to say that political Islam should be part of the picture.”

Mogherini said that:

“Some people are now trying to convince us that a Muslim cannot be a good European citizen, that more Muslims in Europe will be the end of Europe. These people are not just mistaken about Muslims: these people are mistaken about Europe — that is my core message — they have no clue what Europe and the European identity are. This is our common fight: to make this concept accepted both in Europe and beyond Europe. For Europe and Islam face some common challenges in today’s world. The so-called Islamic State is putting forward an unprecedented attempt to pervert Islam for justifying a wicked political and strategic project.”[3]

Hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants have crossed the Mediterranean in 2015, 2016 and 2017, headed for Europe. The European Union’s way of dealing with immigration is through cooperation and partnership, not confrontation. Mogherini told the media this ahead of a summit on Malta in 2017. “We do not believe in walls or bans,” she added.[4] She further stated that there should be no discrimination against migrants based on faith.[5]

For tens of millions of European citizens, mass immigration has become a huge social and economic burden as well as a major security threat. However, the leaders of the EU view Muslim immigration as an opportunity, even as the solution to Europe’s problems. To the oligarchs of the European Union, Islam is not a problem. Islamophobia is.

In a speech from September 2016, Mogherini once again stated that “Europe needs migration.” Moreover, “we see a massive room for win-win solutions, also because if we look at the Mediterranean and Africa you see a huge untapped potential. There is youth, young people with excellent degrees, very good studies and no job opportunities for the future, a lot of good will and they are simply trying to find their place in the future.”[6]

This senior EU official thus sees a “huge untapped potential” in immigration from the Arab world and Africa. A potential for what? For destroying Europe?

Many of the Muslim and African immigrants that have come to Europe in recent years lack the skills and education for complex jobs. At the same time, some European countries already suffer from widespread unemployment.

Moreover, technologists and economists warn that millions of jobs will disappear in the coming decades due to automation. Tasks that used to be performed by humans will in many cases be taken over by computers and robots.

Europe is now importing large numbers of more or less unemployable people with a very different culture. Many of the immigrants are young men of military age with a hostile religion. This policy is criminal stupidity. We risk laying the foundations for massive ethnic tensions and social unrest.

Africa alone is predicted to grow by more than one billion people in the coming thirty years.[7] This number is far greater than the combined population of the entire European continent, from the Urals in Russia to Portugal. At the current rate, the global population adds nearly another Europe every decade. To embrace mass migration from the Islamic world and Africa in this situation will plunge Europe into chaos.

The Union for the Mediterranean (UfM) is an intergovernmental organization of 43 countries from Europe and the Mediterranean Basin: The 28 member states of the European Union plus partner countries from North Africa and the Middle East. The League of Arab States, or Arab League, participates in all meetings of the Union for the Mediterranean. The Arab League also represents Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Somalia and Yemen. Muslim countries such as Algeria and Egypt have the same formal status in this Union as do The Netherlands, Poland, Sweden and Germany. Even the Islamic slave state of Mauritania is a full member.[8]

In January 2017, the High Representative/Vice-President of the European Commission Federica Mogherini made opening remarks at the Second Regional Forum of the Union for the Mediterranean. She lamented the “lack of integration” between Europe and Muslim-dominated North Africa. However, she assured that the EU identifies the Union for the Mediterranean as an important player towards a Euro-Mediterranean region that is more integrated, socially and economically.[9]

At the press conference following the Ministerial meeting of the Union for the Mediterranean in Barcelona in January 2017, Mogherini stated that “having 43 countries, an overall population of 800 million people in our region, gives us a size, a magnitude, an impact that is quite unique.” According to her, more Euro-Mediterranean integration is urgently needed:

We know well, as the demographic trends of our region indicate that this is the smart thing to do for our present and not only for our future; but also tackling the issue of giving adequate space to our youth, both in Europe and in the rest of the Mediterranean region, is also key to a certain number of top priorities that we share: the economic development, guaranteeing that our societies are open societies with a space for each and every citizen, the management of migration flows but also the prevention of radicalisation and the management of our security concerns that we also share.”[10]

The EU elites are thus working tirelessly to promote a regional bloc consisting of European nations plus predominantly Muslim countries in North Africa and the Middle East. Millions of European citizens are unaware that this process, or the Union for the Mediterranean, even exists. Western mass media rarely report critically on this issue.

Such a Union will contain hundreds of millions of Muslims, a number that keeps growing rapidly. Yet this is not perceived as a problem by EU authorities. The same EU authorities seek to suppress all resistance to Muslim immigration among native Europeans as “hate speech”.

In early 2017, Chatham House made a survey of more than 10,000 people from ten European countries. It proved that public opposition to Muslim immigration is not confined to President Donald Trump’s electorate in the USA. It is widespread throughout the Western world.

The respondents were given the following statement: ‘All further migration from mainly Muslim countries should be stopped.’ They were then asked to what extent did they agree or disagree with this statement. Overall, across all ten of the European countries, an average of 55% agreed that all further migration from mainly Muslim countries should be stopped. 25% neither agreed nor disagreed. 20% disagreed. Majorities in all but two of the ten states agreed, ranging from 71% in Poland, 65% in Austria, 53% in Germany and 51% in Italy to 47% in the UK and 41% in Spain. In no country did the percentage that disagreed surpass 32%.[11]

This resistance is perfectly understandable. Many European countries are now living with a constant threat of Islamic terrorism, as well as street crime from Muslim immigrants. Meanwhile, the ruling EU elites want Muslim immigration to continue indefinitely.

Muslim immigration to the Western world is the greatest betrayal in history.


1.   www.corriere.it/esteri/17_febbraio_02/mogherini-migranti-fermare-arrivi-solo-un-illusione-vanno-gestiti-flussi-paesi-partenza-d2731dde-e98c-11e6-9abf-27281e0d6da4.shtml [Esplora il significato del termine: Mogherini e i migranti: “Fermare gli arrivi è solo un’illusione. Vanno gestiti i flussi dai Paesi di partenza” February 2, 2017. Norwegian translation of this article, with comments, by Christian Skaug, February 7, 2017. www.document.no/2017/02/07/europa-kollapser-migrasjonen/
2.   eeas.europa.eu/statements-eeas/2015/150625_07_en.htm SPEECH. Federica Mogherini’s remarks at “Call to Europe V: Islam in Europe”, FEPS conference” 25/06/2015
3.   eeas.europa.eu/statements-eeas/docs/150624islamfepsdeliv.pdf Federica Mogherini’s remarks at “Call to Europe V: Islam in Europe” conference June 24th, 2015. Full text version, pdf. Note: This link worked in 2015, but it no longer work when it was checked in February 2017.
4.   news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-02/03/c_136029205.htm EU does not believe in walls, bans over immigration issue: EU’s Mogherini. 2017-02-03.
5.   www.federicamogherini.net/the-european-way-to-manage-migration/?lang=en The European way to manage migration. Feb 3, 2017.
6.   eeas.europa.eu/headquarters/headquarters-homepage/10200/speech-at-eu-side-event-investing-in-partnership-a-european-external-investment-plan_en Speech at EU Side Event: “Investing in partnership, a European External Investment Plan” Speech by High Representative/Vice-President Federica Mogherini 21/09/2016.
7.   www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2016/jan/11/population-growth-in-africa-grasping-the-scale-of-the-challenge Population growth in Africa: grasping the scale of the challenge. 11 January 2016. www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-34188248 How will a population boom change Africa? 11 September 2015.
8.   ufmsecretariat.org/ufm-countries/ Union for the Mediterranean Member States, website visited in February 2017.
9.   eeas.europa.eu/headquarters/headquarters-homepage/19061/opening-remarks-high-representative-federica-mogherini-second-regional-forum-union_en Opening Remarks by the High Representative Federica Mogherini at the Second Regional Forum of the Union for the Mediterranean (UfM) 23/01/2017.
10.   eeas.europa.eu/headquarters/headquarters-homepage/19076/remarks-federica-mogherini-press-conference-following-ministerial-meeting-union-mediterranean_en Remarks by Federica Mogherini at the press conference following the Ministerial meeting of the Union for the Mediterranean 23/01/2017
11.   www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/what-do-europeans-think-about-muslim-immigration What Do Europeans Think About Muslim Immigration? 07 February 2017.



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46 thoughts on “Will Europe Collapse Without Muslim Immigration?

  1. I’m too old to cry…
    If I were Supreme Dictator of the Western Hemisphere I would allow unrestricted immigration of any and all Muslims who would like to come here. The only condition would be that they have to swim here.

  2. “Open or Die!”

    Since when is “and” spelled “O-R”?

    I guess they don’t know English.

    • Even worse: they willfully look away. The Brussels/German elite plus their EU provincial collaborators are performing every day the greatest betrayal of history.

      • Yes, got it in one! Just hope that if Europeans ever get out of the mess alive they remember all the names of the traitors and act accordingly…

  3. Barroso, Mogherini, and the rest… All the hardcore commies have found their way into the top floors of European un-democracy after they had no chance to gain power democratically in their countries. The invite to Islam is only their tool to accelerate the destruction of stable, homogeneous societies and they hope this way to corral more voters and supporters. They don’t know yet what’s in store for them once they’ve outlived their usefulness to the Allah worshippers. I’d watch it gleefully with chips and red wine, unfortunately we’ll all be crushed before that happens. So there is no evading the struggle if we want a future at all.

    • That might be their objective… but their current “achievement” seems to be Brexit and Trump!

      My guess is that their multi-kulti paradise will quickly disintegrate, and they will be cast into oblivion. In ten years’ time, the Mogherinis and Blairs of this world will be cast into the dustbin of history. All that will be left will be a few Obama/Sadiq-style “exotic” enrichers on the one hand, and a lot of Trump/Farage-style “loonies” against them. And most people over 50 will support the loonies, while more and more of the Snowflakes will gradually wake up. And will get angry…

      At the age of 34, several of my school/university friends have already made the switch, from being good little leftists, to being anti-leftists, while a good deal of others I suspect are keeping their heads down… I find out about some more, to my great surprise, from time to time.

      But as you rightly point out, this will affect us all, so we can’t just sit back and pull out the popcorn.

  4. Putin’s administration gets flack for having allegedly murdering political opponents, journalists, and activist’s. With all that is going on in Europe, can ya really blame the Russian’s for taking extreme measures like that!? I mean I don’t see the difference between what the Russian’s do and what a soldier does in combat…

    • how exactly Putin’s war in Ukraine benefits counterjihad?
      or, maybe his countless provocations against NATO?
      or, maybe shooting down MH17?
      or, maybe, radioactive poisoning of British citizen in London?
      or, maybe, beating to pulp British socker fans in Marseille?
      or, maybe, using Chechen (jihadi) battallions against Georgia and Ukraine?

      you know what, I’m pretty sure many people in the West are fed up with your Putin, as well as they are sick of islamism, – there is more than one [excrement] in this world, in order to avoid one, there is no need to taste another.

  5. Federica Mogherini : “I am not afraid to say that political Islam should be part of the picture.”

    Is not Political Islam same as terrorism?

    • Mogherini is an Italian communist…she probably thrilled to the behavior of the Red Brigade back in the day.
      You think someone like that would have a problem with terrorism?

  6. Mogherini was member of the Italian communist youth federation in the past – if that may help explain some things?

    Countries which have both little immigration and ageing populations have done just fine (Japan, South Korea etc). So why does she think Europe needs any? In any case, looking at Lebanon and the Balkans, mass immigration and multiculturalism have played a large role in bringing about conflict and even civil war to countries around Europe. One could even argue that the Syrian civil war is about two different groups competing for a country…

    Looking further back, Hitler used Poland’s supposed “ill-treatment of minorities” as a reason to attack Poland in 1939. Moreover, his victory speech after conquering Poland was all about “minorities” and “peace”!

    Who’s to say that in a few years time, a Muslim Hitler may not arise, accuse Europe of ill-treating its Muslims and want to invade? If so, he’ll find a massive fifth-column ready to help him… like fighting the second world war, but with a branch of the Hitler Youth in every town and city of Britain and America.

    And Mogherini’s Muslims might just be the crucial factor…

  7. Islam does in fact have a place in history of Europe: they invaded it once, and were at war with europe on european soil for hundreds of years. Finally Europe pushed Islam out of Europe and chased them all the way back to Jerusalem…nearly annihilating Islam in the process. Has Europe learned nothing?

  8. I am so weary of the claims made by the craziest schools of thought in that pseudo-science we know as economics.

    Between the two most idiotic extremes: pure socialism where the government does almost everything, and pure libertarianism, where the government does virtually nothing, we have many varieties of crack brained economic theories thrown into the mix that involve notions like:

    An increasing population is essential for economic growth:
    An increasing population increases everyone’s wealth;
    An increasing population makes everybody happy;
    An increasing population is economically vital, sensible and essential;
    Unrestricted immigration enables work to be performed that local populations supposedly cannot be induced to perform;
    Unrestricted immigration enriches and diversifies a colonised nation’s culture;
    Diversity increases the economic strength of a nation;
    Unrestricted immigration and absolute free movement of labor units is always beneficial, is needed to solve the supposed omnipresent dangers of labor shortages and is, in any case, a moral imperative;
    All races, cultures and religions are equally good;
    All races, cultures and religions are equally skilled;
    All races, cultures and religions contribute equally to a nation’s wealth and to its illth;

    Modern economic doctrine discourages attempts to confuse economic models accepted as optimum with contrarian facts. The scientifically robust mathematical models on which modern economic theories are based supposedly prove beyond all possible doubt that all the above is sane and true.

    Yes, I studied economics in high school and university (but not as a major). I am convinced that modern economists, together with their trusting and mostly stupid politicians and journalists are, for the most part, the greatest bunch of frauds and crackpots this planet has ever had to endure.

    • One of the most correct comments it’s been my pleasure to read.
      Amazing that you could post such a comment after attending university!

    • Naturally – so called “economics” is simply a set of rules of thumb for separation of labour related activity – but fully subservient to politics.

      I prefer “logistics” because this is what meaningful part of economics is.

    • Don’t you know that the more slaves we have the greater our GDP will be?

      It makes perfect economic sense, since we don’t need citizens, but poor peasants, you know?

    • Keynesian economic theory fits your story, however the Austrian school of economics espoused by von Mises and Hayek build up healthy nations upon free market theorems.

  9. Seems like they are just putting off the inevitable if it will collapse and will blame it on the immigrants one day. At what population level is Europe’s economy sustainable. If you think about the details it just sounds like a lie or they are leaving out so much that you can’t realize that it is nonsense.

  10. All of the rich East Asian countries–Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macao–have birth rates even lower than western Europe’s. IN SE Asia, Singapore is at 1.3, close to one-child policy territory. Even China has a very low birth rate.

    And not one of them is seriously considering mass immigration as a “solution.” They all believe it is a long-term problem that can be addressed via state measures, automation, and if necessary limited and controlled importation of care staff (typically foreigners are about 1-2% of the population of an East Asian country). Some East Asians actually welcome lower population levels, because it means higher wages and lower housing costs.

    What western elites tell you about low birth rates and immigration is a pile of lies. The fact that the wholly contradictory East Asian experience is ignored and virtually unknown tells you another thing about them–these elites are eurocentric racists who do not even bother referencing what is happening outside their bubble.

  11. The eu traitor elite make statements but lack the arguments to support them. How do they expect to carry the populatio?

  12. I can’t get people aroused. I keep telling them: “Do you realize what is happening to Europe right now? Do you realize that we are witnessing one of the most astonishing events in world history…as we speak?. An entire culture is being obliterated–a massive genocide–and it is an outwardly strong culture with armies, navies, and aircraft and atomic weapons–and it is being torn apart from within and by its own consent? Do you appreciate how unusual this is? ”

    It is difficult to comprehend…that such a devastating destruction is going on and we are getting sleepy ho-hums from the rest of the world.

    I’m afraid their turn is next.

    It is more surprising than science fiction and you begin to wonder if we have had silent brain transplants from aliens.

    • Islam is rather handy at destroying brilliant civilizations from within. Study the decline of Persia and Byzantium. Do not expect help from the rest of the world. Europe did the same when it ho-hummed through the conquest of Constantinople. Roll up your sleeves, arm yourselves, dispatch your socialist elites and destroy Islam in your midst. This had better happen soon or there will not be much to save. Western civilization is on the brink.

  13. “Huge untapped potential, very good degrees, just trying to find their place in the future….”

    Successful Europeans should find ‘huge untapped potential’ in unskilled, uneducated, semi-literate savages from north and west Africa?

    Mogherini should be incarcerated in an asylum for the insane! No one could really be so blind and stupid–she is willfully ruining Europe, and is allowed to continue, while Americans assassinated Lincoln and Kennedy–the mind boggles.

    • “Very good degrees” was the biggest laugher for me.

      There are no good universities in Africa, excepting Cape Town, and even that school is circling the drain these days.

  14. Hi Folks ! Off Topic, I know but worth it.

    This is an original 8mm silent from summer 1995, going round in Germany, with various modern songs added. There’s plenty of speculation if it’s real or not. Merkel’s office neither denies nor confirms. She’s known to be impulsive, just watch her myriad of extensive and explicit facial expressions. Also, it would be in-line with some pictures of her, and her friends, in nudist playgrounds from her FDJ days in east-Germany.

    There are some collages about her, in bed with Sarkozy, etc. which are obviously what they are, collages – BUT THIS…. The figure/shape is right for her in ’95, the height is right, the hair is right, and so is the face. Well, you judge. So:


    without further ado, the one and only, the incomparable, in her black bikini (!!!!!)



  15. The Diversity lie: multi-culti is not the desired end state, it is a transition phase en route to Islamic mono-culture.
    The Islam lie: ISIS are trying to pervert Islam; on the contrary, they practise pure Islam, exactly as laid down in the Koran and the Hadiths.
    The Economy lie: The ethnic invaders flooding into Europe will never make any meaningful contribution to the economy; on the contrary, they and their offspring will be an ever-increasing burden.
    The Demography lie: Mass immigration does not and cannot compensate for a declining birth rate; on the contrary, it puts so much pressure on the host population that it actually causes their birth rate to decline.

  16. Why is Mogherini called a High Representative as opposed to just a Representative? Some of the UN bureaucrats are also called High Commissioners of this or that as opposed to regular commissioners. It seems to me that such titles are simply attempts to inflate the official’s importance and stroke their egos.

  17. If there was real integration, then Europeans would also move to the Muslim states, but who in their right mind would want to do that?

  18. “Will Europe Collapse Without Muslim Immigration?”

    On the contrary. The population decline currently experienced throughout the European world, that includes the US, Australia and other places, is not a bad thing at all.

    It will force drastic modernization, that is automation and robotisation, of industry many industries and professions. New skills will have to be developed and acquired. Customization of many products will come to the fore, thus new types of artisans. Property prices will come down, so will rents, life become more affordable. Entire new disciplines will arise given these circumstances, thus an improvement in education is necessary.

    And finally, we all would have more space for ourselves. Looking after the ageing population will be costly, but necessary for obvious reasons. Besides, everybody grows old, the moment they are out of the womb. Also, an additional industry…

    In other words, the European peoples, and their descendants, would do what we were good at again and again in history: We’d progress!

    Instead of that we will have a civil war (or rather uncivil one) of very unpalatable proportion – or become slaves, dhimmies. And then sink into an Islamic hell hole. Which wont happen, so, civil war and then the above.

    BTW: With a very low population base we produced and caused the modern world. We even conquered most of the world in addition to that… Population growth is only required for the manufacturers of Lego blocks, Barbie dolls, etc.

    • Hi DFD,

      I’m delighted you’re back to commenting here. I did pose a question for you at a previous link.

      As far as your post of Merkel’s image dancing in a bikini cica 1995, it only shows Merkels disdain for the public good that she would publicly display her body in a bikini. I have to confess I couldn’t make it all the way through the video.

      Pertaining to your comment here, I give a qualified agreement. If your birth rates fall too low, you will not be able to defend your territory. The birthrate of imperial Rome fell precipitously. They came to depend first on barbarian armies, then on barbarian generals, and finally on barbarian emperors.

      Also, the decline in Roman birth rate, according to a fascinating work I have just become familiar with, The Law of Civilization and Decay, was due to the general deterioration of the economic viability of the Roman farmer stock due to foreign competition, deflation, and the vicious laws of indebtedness.


      My view is that for various reasons, you will get the EU and Mogherini effect any time you institute a mega-national regulatory body, without exception. The European nations, giving up portions of their sovereignty so they could live beyond their means on the German dole, paid far more than they could have suspected. It’s pretty disconcerting to think that North Korea, repressive and totalitarian almost beyond belief, could actually outlive the European republics because of N. Korea’s embrace of outcast status and its fervent rejection of any diversity whatsoever.

      • Hi Ronald,

        First of all, thank you for the ‘welcome back’, that feels good. Big 🙂

        I will answer (Hopefully tomorrow) your question about the Hitler/Trump thing at the GoV link you gave.

        Referring to the, valid, points you made: Yes, the Romans had a massive problem. There are however two factors to be noted. One, they managed to assimilate a lot of the foreigners (Latin: Barbarians), particularly the Germans, who provided practically the entire Praetorian guard. Incidentally, German and Deutsch are two entirely different languages, Deutsch is based on Latin, the German language has disappeared, died out. Note here, the Germans were extremely impressed by Roman technology, medical skills (Egypt and all that, too far) and their ability to “mass” manufacture items with a high degree of regularity. Also, a relatively organized educational system which produced a wealthy populace; and even wealthier leaders. None of that was lost on the German Chieftains. Those most impressed were the Franks, that’s the federal country of Frankonia in Germany, and to the west those Franks formed, or took over, an entire Nation. Gaul, and renamed it – France… The Franks, and the Carolingian family, were actually the ones who founded the “Holy Roman Empire of Germanic Nation”. Quite a mouthful, no? But it shows their admiration for the Empire. And the support of the popes, of course. (OK, OK, I am glossing over a lot of detail, but for space)

        The rest of the empire? It is, unfortunately true, most other Barbarians did not assimilate, not even adapt. Independence! Independence! Everyone wanted their own little fiefdom. And got it, with the result of endless wars.

        Having said all that, there was a reason for the military failure of the Empire, namely lack of technology and industry as such. Some adjustments or developments were made, such as simplifying the ballista into the onager, but that didn’t make much of a difference. On the battlefield, yes; politically, no. There was reorganization of the military, didn’t help much either. War was still a man-to-man business, and thus sheer numbers were of prime, decisive import. And the legions couldn’t be anywhere at once. Incidentally, a “Legio”, consisting of three troopers, was the basic fighting unit of Rome.

        Apart from all that, there was the lack of the fundamental thing, which I am always on about, the lack of money. No money, no victory, that simple. Let me put it this way: You can have Jupiter Optimus Maximus on your side, also known as Jupiter Stator (in that name revered by the Roman army), you can also have Mars on your side – but without CASH on your side, you are still going to lose.

        Consider here what, or rather who, gave a life line to the Empire, the Christians. Lots of manpower, legions. But note: Christianity didn’t take the Empire, it was the other way round. Which led to the prompt persecution and near extinction of the Arians, and later to a very pi…d off Luther, and other reformers. Who were very unhappy about the deal making that this conversion involved. Or rather about the results of that deal making. Results? Take a look at the Catholic church… (No, I don’t condemn the Catholics, nor the individual priests, but the Curie – oh dear).

        That now leads to technology. Suppose the entire Empire could raise only four legions, that’s 16,000 troops, no more. In each legion, approx 4,000 men, there are cohorts, about 600 men per cohort. Equip the cohort with canons, roughly 60 canons, thus 240 canons in total. The rest with muskets. Nobody else has them. And the Empire would have continued to maintain that technological lead. The Barbarians have Muskets, the Empire develops machine guns. And so on and so forth. The Empire would have lasted, well, legally it still exists (later about that). So, what I was saying in my post was this, we have a technological superiority that practically no-one can match. As long as we keep up the education. And the Muslims countries? Bottom of the pile.

        Population density? When living costs reduce, rent, property costs, etc., people will have larger families, again. And definitely so under two aspects, change of tax structure and defeat/removal of those anarchists (School of Frankfurt and their various “allies”). Requires purges!

        Empire still exists, is interesting, no? First of all: When Ferdinand, the last “Emperor” dissolved the Empire, the act was illegal. There was no Senate and no Plebeian assembly agreeing with it. Thus, it can be argued that Ferdinand’s decision was illegal. And that means most EU states are in rebellion…

        That’s even more interesting, a Belgian Professor of history came to the same conclusion as I did in my “civil wars”. He compares the current situation in the EU with that of the Roman Republic before its fall, and its turning into the Empire. Whilst I look at Europe from the 15th century on, for my comparison, or reasoning about the civil wars to come. His reasons are primarily population decline, he is on your line there, immigration and currency instabilities. He says the factors are so similar that it is hard to believe.

        Interestingly enough, we agree on the result, namely that there will be autocratic governments in Europe. I agree, that’s what I wrote in the “The rise of the Führers” and for fairly similar reasons. However, he also sees the possibility of a central, overall leader to arise, an Emperor.

        Yes, I have to agree, that’s possible, and given the political climate even likely. But it’s already too long here to go into that, looking forward to your reply.

  19. Even if one accepts the notion that Europe faces demographic collapse without immigration, it’s suicidal to fill the gap with Muslims. It’s not about race. Indeed, the current wave of Muslims are mostly Caucasian. It’s about culture. Instead of filling the gap with disruptive, undereducated misogynists from Muslim dirtball cultures, fill the gap with South Koreans, Vietnamese, and Chinese. These groups generally excel in every sphere of human endeavor, surpassing the general population, and soon become economic assets wherever they go. They work hard. They study hard. They fit in. They are law-abiding. If Europe had pursued such a policy, instead of the suicidal policies now underway, Europe would be better off in every way. Really, doesn’t everybody know this to be true?

    • I don’t agree with European being flooded or invaded by either Muslim culture or other massively disruptive, harsh Oriental culture.

      White European culture is still the best.

      Europe would be better off retaining its own White European culture.

      • Lewin is just giving us an alternative, and he’s right; orientals do fit in, work hard, are clever and law abiding.
        moslems do none of those things, and are trouble wherever they go.
        While I do agree that Europeans would be better retaining their own culture, they should not close their borders to orientals, only to moslems.

        So Europeans are massively filling their countries with the very people who will destroy them, so is Canada. American Republicans have seen the light, but the Democrats are doing their level best to derail the democratically elected President and bring their country down to the European level of chaos and disaster which leftists love so well, in their misguided search for their chimerical utopia.

    • If a population is facing demographic collapse the solution is to address that issue specifically, not side step it by using immigration. If they can’t be bothered to do that then it’s suicide regardless of whether they replace themselves with aggressive immigrants or peaceful ones.

      If Swedes, for example, aren’t reproducing enough how does importing industrious, law abiding Koreans rather than disruptive Muslims avoid the suicide result? Sure, the Koreans will do a fine job of keeping Sweden orderly and prosperous while the Swedes gradually retire to their nursing homes. But as the new immigrant population replaces the old native population Swedish culture will recede and eventually be replaced as well.

      As to the “it’s not about race it’s about culture” argument I believe that culture derives from the people. There won’t be any Swedish culture when the flesh and blood Swedes are gone.

      • I agree very much with gjest.

        Indeed, culture do mostly derives from the people.

        Koreans, with their inhumane Asiatic culture, like the Moslems, do tend to make it worst for the Western world and for anyone who have been unfortunate enough to experience those Islamic tendencies to inflict their Asiatic and Islamic nastiness.

        One should also take note those Asiatics and Islamic tendencies to disregard for others who are less privileged than them.

  20. When – if ever! – will most people realise that this is NOT a matter of RIGHT versus LEFT? There are plenty on the left who have a sufficient amount of common sense to know that the way the ‘Establishment’, whether nominally of the left or the right (or even the centre!), is running things is not sustainable, to put it very mildly. Generally speaking, I think that those who desire power, whether in politics, business, media or the military, are the very people who should be kept a million miles away from power! Most of them seem to be either in it for themselves, their buddies and their puppet-masters or woefully lacking in intelligence – or both. Unfortunately they also seem to successfully dumb down a sufficient proportion of the world-wide electorate to keep themselves in power. Also generally speaking, it seems that the choices presented by various political parties amount to making a selection between the proverbial devil and the equally proverbial deep blues sea. What’s the solution? Haven’t a clue. Extinction of the human race, perhaps. Pity really. There are quite a few reasonably decent (and passably intelligent) human beings out there. Some even in the political world. Mainly (but not exclusively) on the ‘left’, wherever or whatever that is.

    • The Left-Right nomenclature to divide political thought is still with us because no better term(s) have been created yet.

      The situation is fluid right now (sewers usually are) so I don’t expect it to change real soon.

      There appears to be rather a lot of other kinds of wishful thinking involved in your various unfounded assertions about the current state of the world and who runs what. And then you claim you don’t “have a clue” what’s going to happen, though you’re determined to let us have a peek at your unusual level of moral decency by emitting some passing regret about the extinction of all of us, while you quickly pick up your skirts so none of the mud gets on *you*. As they used to say around here, “darned white of you, Mr. Fussell”.

      Then you round off your time at bat with this looping grounder:

      There are quite a few reasonably decent (and passably intelligent) human beings out there. Some even in the political world. Mainly (but not exclusively) on the ‘left’, wherever or whatever that is.

      Would that we all had your level of discernment. My reasonably decent and more than passably intelligent human beings all reside on what was once known as the right. In the long term, the Right holds the aces, if only because ours have produced fewer murderous ideas. The Left has been bizzy bizzy for some time trying to turn the Nazis into conservatives. Still hasn’t worked, except among the Leftist true believers. But those are the ones wearing the Che t-shirts; their fathers strolled around with their little red Mao books.

      Show us your heroes, Mr. Fussell. The ones on the Left, where the flowers grow on the graves of those murdered by Leftist tyrants.

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