57 thoughts on “Adolf Hitler, Donald Trump — Same Thing!”

1. Trust me, I wanted to throw things across the room and smash windows a couple times watching / translating that piece of garbage. However I felt it HAD to be done. Just to show people what it is I am talking about when they say ‘Germans are so smart they built all these great things what has happened to them’, and I answer ‘if they’re so smart then why did they invade Russia in the winter, because I think there’s a yuge difference between intelligently bold, and stupidly bold.’

   Coincidentally, the great Z man just recently posted an essay in which he took up the same joke. It’s been around for a while in my home country, I had no clue that Americans use the same phrase (about invading Russia in the Winter):

   http://thezman.com/wordpress/?p=9513

   • Alas, the mental illness is an epidemic. [Click on Link] There is a variation on that phrase, and Americans can take a lesson from it.

   • >> “I answer ‘if they’re so smart then why did they invade Russia in the winter”

     Ummm … but they did not invade Russia in the winter (June 22, 1941). The mistake was to invade at all, because the task proved to be far beyond their capabilities. The question should be why we follow the pied pipers into the abyss of war at all. Why are humans so gullible? This brings us to that quote by a man, in a lucid moment, facing the hangman’s noose:

     “Why, of course, the people don’t want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship … voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.” – Hermann Göring

     • You are wrong.

       The invasion might have succeeded if Hitler and the Wehrmacht had an ounce of brains. The Slavs were ready to unite behind anyone who could throw the Communist regime out but the Nazis could only shoot the Slavs. Dumb.

       • Indeed, the German experience in the Soviet Union in WWII is a good example of people being made prisoners of their own ideology. The Allied cause would’ve had serious problems had the Germans reconsidered their attitude towards the Slaves in the light of the initial welcome their troops received. What would a renewed Russian civil war–one side large, and supported by Nazi Germany–have done? Certainly it would’ve freed large numbers of German troops for deployment elsewhere.

       • Whenever did June become “winter” in the northern hemisphere.

         The invasion, Operation Barbarossa, would likely have succeeded (subject to Hitler being prepared to heed the advice of military professionals instead of being the know-it-all autodidact he was) if it had been launched in mid May as planned instead of late June. Stupid Hitler decided to deal with Yugoslavia first out of vanity rather than sound strategy, losing a crucial six weeks of good weather.

         Then stupid Hitler compounded that error and ignored the advice of his army commander in chief who in early late August 1941 (unanimously supported by all the top generals in the East) wanted to concentrate armoured forces in a direct drive for Moscow. Stupid Hitler paused for a couple of weeks then diverted armoured forces from Army Group Centre to Army Group South because he saw Moscow, the hub of the Soviet Union’s rail network and much else, as less important than coal fields in the eastern Ukraine.

         Still the Germans maintained the initiative into mid 1942, but instead of maintaining the focus of Case Blue on securing the Caucasus oil fields, stupid Hitler got obsessed with taking Stalingrad and weakened the forces that had already captured Maikop, the westernmost of the oil fields and diverted them to the vanity project of taking Stalingrad.

         And, yes, if stupid Hitler had treated the Ukrainians (and many other Soviet-hating Soviet minorities) with just a bit of decency, he would have had tens of millions of Soviet citizens on his side. When the Wehrmacht first rolled into the Ukraine it were cheered and welcomed by happy smiling peasants with gifts of flowers, bread and salt. It was Hitler’s racialist belief system that destroyed his chances of winning WW2.

         • Indeed so, and his lack of intelligence. But I think you pointed that out.

           Russians and others threw rice and flowers onto German tanks and troops…

   • Hi Nash, the Germany invasion of the Soviet Union took place on the 22nd June 1941. June in Europe is the start of summer. It was initially planned to take place earlier on the 15th May but was delayed several weeks due to the German invasion of the Balkans. The Germans had planned to defeat the S.U. by Christmas 1941 but as we all know they didn’t.
     Incidentally the French invasion of Russia started on the 24th June 1812.
     There is a moral somewhere here; invade Russia earlier than late June, or, let’s all just live in peace.

     • Darn it you people are just so smart!

       From what I remember the invasion was authorized in December of 1940, to begin in May, and it dragged on until December 1941. I remember the photographs of frozen nazi soldiers.

       Napoleon did the same thing during his time (invaded when winter was near) and lost most of his men, which severely weakened his empire’s fighting force.

       I guess winter is always too near when you plan to invade a country as yuge as Russia.

       Anyway, I don’t know why, but the saying has been around for a long long time. My dad and granddad both used it, “the Germans are so smart that they invaded Russia in the winter”. I guess it’s only half true…

       • It was the month or so of delay that doomed Barbarossa. The Wehrmacht reached the outskirts of Moscow just as the winter set in, and could never make it the last few miles. It was a particularly nasty winter. First everything turned to mud, and then froze. Then it got so cold (-40, C and F) the engines of tanks and trucks wouldn’t start. But the Russians were prepared for this — it was, after all, their home turf — and fought back on skis.

         If the Germans had got to Moscow a month earlier, things might have gone differently. The Soviet government had a contingency plan to withdraw from Moscow to the other side of the Urals, and continue the fight from there. But who knows how that would have turned out?

         • Hat tip @ Baron!

         • Some people think that if Adolph had headed for Moscow up front, he would have cut the major transportation hub in those parts paralyzing Stalin’s ability to move troops up and down the lines depending where they were needed. All railroads led to Moscow and Adolph could have had them in hand.

       • More nit picking:

         1) Napoleon… most of the Grande Armee fatalities occurred during its march into the Russian Empire. The main causes were typhoid fever (poor hygiene, water and food in crowded conditions) and typhus (body lice, ticks, mites and fleas). Add to that the scorched earth withdrawal by the Russians … before the winter kicked in.

         2) >> “photographs of frozen nazi soldiers”
         How do you know they were Nazis? Did they display their party affiliation upon their deaths? … or were they [mostly] just German soldiers; and it’s not like the local civilian populations were unaffected by events. Their suffering in that winter is largely forgotten.

         These are the problems that crop up when Hollywood and other propaganda machines invent history.

         • Okydoky. I didn’t grow up in Hollywood. I grew up in Switzerland. Ww2 was curriculum. Our teacher was Herr Loetscher, an elderly gentleman with a nervous habit of rubbing his forearms incessantly. Maybe it was due to the numbers and letter tattooed on his forearm. It started with A or something…. eh. What do I know.

   • Hi Nash,

     There are a lot of misconceptions about Barbarossa, most of it a mixture of fantasy, propaganda, propaganda based fantasy and outright ignorance. So about that, here’s an excerpt of what I posted in reply on another site, a similar question but relating in addition to current politics and strategies.

     So, from here….. The Russian winter? That defeated Napoleon. The Wehrmacht suffered from it, badly, but not decisively. It’s the Russian autumn and spring that’s the problem. Hitler hesitated for too long, instead of listening to his Generals. And again, instead of listening to his Generals, he devised an idiotic strategem – encircling Moscow with a gigantic pincer movement, thus splitting the army! Splitting the army, how much more idiotic can you get? In the US/Texas, Generalissimo Santa-Anna was so cocky and contemptuous of the Americans, that he split his army, the rest is history. Back to Russia, even with the winter, the Wehrmacht could have still broken through. No kidding. But they were literally stuck in the mud, in autumn and in spring. Tanks sank in to the top of their tracks, and deeper even. Same with trucks, hence the extensive use of horses. Which also sank in. All that consumed time, time, time. One of the most precious commodities in war – unless you have virtually unlimited resources.

     What went wrong? In a nutshell, German intelligence saw Stalin raising division after division at the then common border between Germany and Russia; Germany occupied about a third of Poland, and Russia the other two thirds. The OKW (Ober Kommando der Wehrmacht / High Command of the Wehrmacht) saw this, understood it correctly and urged Adolf to attack, before they could. Hitler hesitated to the last minute (as in Dunkirk) for reasons known only to himself. When it was simply no longer possible to ignore what Stalin was up to, he gave the orders, a full two months late – and landed the German army in the mud. Couple that with his stupid strategy, against the advice of **every** General, and the result was a forgone conclusion. The original date by the OKW, for a successful invasion of Russia, was to be no later than the end of March, early April, irrespective of the year.

     Now get this, even today about 80% of all Russian roads are not real roads, but non-enforced tracks, mud traps in autumn and spring. The Russians don’t have the money to build roads.

     Russian manpower, a population of 140 million? Nope. They lost about 30 million people to the Wehrmacht, and Stalin bumped of about 20-40 million. After the war Russians did not have the income, we are back to the import of money, to sustain a population recovery. {Insert: Even today there are still many Russian women looking for husbands in the west….} Do the maths. I’d say their real population figure is about 110 to 120 million – of which around 30 million are Muslims. Moscow is Europe’s Muslim capital, without peer. And the Muslims of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, etc.? I don’t think Putin is so stupid wanting to test their loyalty.

     Russia’s current power? Let me put it this way, ignore the nuclear weapons, and Russia couldn’t win a war against the German Bundeswehr – in sorry a state as it is! Russia simply doesn’t have the money, and it doesn’t have the industry.

     To summarize, Winter or not, without the massive supplies by the western allies, notably the US and Britain (an imperial power then, with the corresponding resources), Russia still would not have made it. That ought to explain a lot about Russia’s behavior vis-a-vis the west.

     • DFD, I just copied your comment into a document file so I can safe it, I hope you don’t mind. And thank you!

       • For Nash Montana Part 1
         =============

         Hi Nash,

         you are welcome to do so. Since you seem to be interested in the matter, or that part of history, permit me to clarify a few things which get usually lost or overlooked. Depends on a writers ‘leanings’.

         OK, ww2, the Hitler-Stalin era. There are several overlapping, and far reaching factors. Hitler and Stalin, two shrewd and wily politicians – and military nincompoops!

         WW2 started in Asia, in the 30s, Japan, China, Manchuria. That worried Stalin, from Manchuria into Siberia is just one step. So he made a deal with another international outcast, Hitler. “You give me technology and technological supplies and I give you raw materials, and you can train your troops here, particularly tanks and aircraft (unspoken: so I can learn from you and have my back free….)”. Adolf was delighted. Neither had any illusions about the other. Stalin has read ‘Mein Kampf’, “Lebensraum and all that”, he wasn’t stupid. Conversely, Hitler fully understood the international aspect of Bolshevism, he spoke about it rather extensively and wrote about it in “his” book. “His”? Serious opinions differ, between 1/3 and 2/3s are his, the rest is from others. He was permitted some very high class and well educated visitors in Landshut – for him it was more of a restricted hotel than a prison. What am I talking about? For instance, he wrote that he had, past tense, developed after much thought and study, his particular manner of speaking, gesticulation, timing of catch phrases as well as gestures, and the time of speaking, preferably after 8pm. Minor detail, but all that came **after** Landshut, after ‘his’ book…

         Right, back to the situation between these two. Stalin & Co: “Why wasting time? Let’s take western Europe in a pincer, from west to east. After all, we have the ComIntern (Communist International, same guys who founded and ran the School of Frankfurt). Spain looks right, let’s start there.”

         I know, I know, it was a fight of free journalists, artists and mothers with children against the evil Franco. Four little problems, 1): Franco was **REACTIVE** 2): Where did all those journalists, artists and free-doom loving housewives get the money from? You can’t fight a war without cash! 3): Where did the officers came from, to teach and lead them? 4): Where did they get the weapons from? Answer to 1: Obvious, if you look at the time line – that always helps and clarifies. 2: Comintern and outright soviet cash. 3: Russia 4: Russia. I could be wrong of course, and the artists made those canons, machine guns etc. whilst their pictures were drying, or whilst they took a break from writing; could be.

         Hitler looks at it and sees Franco losing. Those poor artists and down trodden workers were better equipped than his army was. And better officers too. Hitler acts and sends ‘Legion Condor’ to the rescue. Claiming to save western European democracies, which his apologizers still claim. And that’s actually true. One snag: The motivation wasn’t!

         Look at it from Adolf’s point of view: How can you go out and conquer the east for desired lebensraum, that is Russia, with the Red Army on your border with the west? Your border with the west? If Stalin would have taken Spain, he would have taken France as well, the Commies were rather strong there too. (French resistance killed a lot more among each other than Germans, Republican vs. Communist Resistance…) Would Britain have come to France’s rescue against Russia and a Russian army combined with a Spanish communist army, whilst the Comintern already fights in France? Fat chance. If it would have worked, and Spain would have fallen, to the artists, writers and farmers of course, then Stalin’s achievement would have been twofold: Hitler’s threat to the east eliminated, and the rest of continental Europe ready to swallow. Raw materials to Germany would have stopped instantaneously. Hitler had to act.

       • For Nash Montana Part 2
         =============

         German troops and weapons were thoroughly tested – and they learned how communist, specifically Russian, officers were leading their troops.

         OK, after that was over, Germany continued to be run by Hitler. Sort of. He had enough brains to let economists and bankers do their bit, with very few ‘(national)socialist’ restrictions. That worked, Germany became stronger and stronger. Much to Churchill’s and Roosevelt’s alarm. (later, at the end….)

         Insert: I highly recommend Prof. Paul Kennedy’s book: “The Rise and Fall of (great) Powers”. By now mandatory for every one who studies history and politics. Maggie Thatcher brandished it in the house of Commons, Putin follows it to the letter…

         His preparations for war, i.e., the conquest of lebensraum in the east. Total cock up! Nash, you have to understand this, Hitler and Stalin were military bumpkins!

         Hitler: He promoted his ww1 buddies to the highest positions. Fighter aces like Göhring and Milch became Generals of the Luftwaffe, Göhring even commander and ‘Air Marshall’! The German OKW wasn’t happy about that, but Hitler had the SA and the SS… Plus some support among the generals. Whenever decisions had to be made, even during the war itself, affecting the outcome of production and battles, Hitler invariably lived out the Nibelungen saga. Or fantasy.

         The OKW wanted rockets and long range missiles, Hitler gave a damn. The OKW wanted jet fighters and bombers, the first jets flew in the mid thirties, Heinkels. Hitler and his pals in the Reichs Luftfahrt Ministerium: “Just rumpus!” And it went on and on. {Insert: The modern gas turbine (jet engine) is neither a German nor a British invention. It’s American, its fundamental functioning is called the ‘Brayton cycle’ after its inventor. Otto and Diesel made modifications to it and used pistons, cylinders and valves, since these allowed control of the thermodynamic processes with the then available technology. Pure, real gas turbines have been in use in central Europe since about 1500 AD! They were called smoke mills. And used to smoke bacon and sausages and… errr… yummy, yummy… End insert.} In other words, when the main war in Europe started, the Germans would have had jet fighters and bombers, and long range missiles – if Hitler would have listened to the Generals, the scientists and engineers.

         Further, the OKW wanted something called the Urals bomber, which later became, when it was too late, the America bomber. The logic being that according to Clausewitz things **could and do go wrong** as he said again and again in “The Fog of War” (recommended reading). Then it would be necessary to be able to bomb distant Russian supply lines and factories. Hitler & Co? “Nonsense! Stukas, Stukas, blitzkrieg, battlefield support, precision bombing!” Building up crude oil **and** fuel reserves, same answer! And it was dangerous to argue with Adolf, as it was dangerous to argue with Joseph.

         Both were vain, examples, Stalin’s frequent ‘background’ appearances in movies, just like Hitchcock’s. Hitler? The Germans developed the mother of all assault rifles, the Sturmgewehr 44. Sturmgewehr means literally ‘Assault Rifle’, AR in American, AK in Russian… This weapon is still in use with some troops, noticeably in the middle east, even Syria. A chap called Kalishnikov, a Russian engineer, made some mods to it whilst he was in hospital in 1947, in particular he added a gas & bolt system plus improvements to the trigger mechanism, guess what it became known as…

         Right, so this thing was total non sense, ridiculous, according A.H. The bolt action rifle, a powerful cartridge, range. This is what matters – he lived in ww1. Right, so the OKW cancelled production and arranged for production of the MP44 (Maschinen pistole 44) as a successor to the Schmeisser. Yes, the Stg 44 by another name. Smashing success, it increased the ratio of the German Landser’s value against the allied trooper by order of magnitude. Military historians say by two to three, even that much. Didn’t help the vastly outnumbered Germans, but if you are an infantry man in the first half of the 20th century and you get a rifle from the later half of the 20th century – fill in the blanks. Among Russians it became known as ‘The Reaper’, guess why. If you need help, 30 rounds per clip, easy to control even under full auto, and about 400 to 450 meters effective range. Not as a special, but standard issue for the Grunt, and that in ww2….

         Why is that important in reference to Adolf’s personalty? Well, after its successes were manifest, Hitler claimed that he promoted it along, but the that the Prussian military, which was so stuck in its backward thinking, that they sabotaged his efforts. Whoopeee! At least, he didn’t have them shot as traitors.

         The Nazis, and Commies, and similar such ‘ideologists’? Let me put it this way. When the situation became more and more precarious for the Germans, about 90% of their entire military, ground and air fore, were on the eastern front (Prof. Kennedy: “… in 1944 the Germans produced more aero planes than the western allies together. But the Russians produced even more….). Germany badly and most urgently needed air superiority, the Me 262 was just the ticket. The Luftwaffe commanders drew lots who would approach Hitler to argue with him! The lot fell on Galland, a fighter ace. During the meeting he put it to Hitler by asking the question: “How many Stukas (dive bombers) are the allies using against Germany?” The answer was obvious, not one. He survived the meeting and the Me 262 was cleared for production, too late of course. However, he got the OK with a caveat from Hitler and Göhring, namely that the Me 262 would also be usable as a dive bomber… Though, in honor of the Luftwaffe’s day-to-day leaders it must be said that they simply ignored this stipulation.

         Right, this discourse has, hopefully, given you an indication of what a mess the leadership on both sides was. The Russians too had later on good Generals, Chukov was easily on par with Keitel, Eisenhower etc., but even he had to tread carefully around Stalin. There’s the story of a minor officer, I forgot his rank, he was a technical draftsman. He carried his drawing tools with him all the time, in case something goes wrong and he will be send to Siberia. His name was Nikita Khrushchev.

         The mess these two characters were making with their constant interference in military matters was staggering. And explains all those idiotic decisions that were made, on both sides. The other mess of course was among the people, the Russians lost 30 million, multiply 43 months of war times 30 days per month and divide by 30 million, that’s 3.7 dead per second. In addition Stalin bumped off 20-40 million, of his own people. His vengeance upon the Cossacks, most of which have sided with the Germans, since they didn’t oppose Christianity, was horrific. In addition he killed vast numbers of eastern Europeans, allies of the Germans/Axis. Hitler killed somewhere between 5 and 7 million Germans, plus about 3-4 million Europeans, religion, race or communism.

         That is incidentally why I wrote with such concern about “The Rise of the Führers”. And they are waiting and watching, Islam/Jihad and the ever maddening efforts and actions of the left (Frankfurters, Kalergians and Hootonians) is a God send for them. Interestingly enough, a Belgian historian agrees with me, independently, and comes to nearly the same conclusions, though based on the events in the Roman Republic, and its fall. We are merely looking at different machinations, but fundamentally identical causes and events.

         If you want to know more about that and its effect on geopolitics, Russia and Germany, Bismarck to Putin, in particular, but also in reference to the US and its strategy in reference thereto (it’s all interconnected or related), let me know. I was going to write here, but it would be too long.

     • DFD

       “To summarize, Winter or not, without the massive supplies by the western allies, notably the US and Britain (an imperial power then, with the corresponding resources), Russia still would not have made it. That ought to explain a lot about Russia’s behavior vis-a-vis the west.”

       The reverse holds true also.

       Are you not able to see that the reverse is also plausible. You do not mention in your analysis in the above the devotion of the Russian people to fight against the Nazi invader.

       Why would you leave that out? It is as if the war against the Nazis by the Russians did not take place.

       Am I picking you up wrongly on this?

       I would place the devotion of the Russian people to defend their country against the Nazi Fascists as my number one.

       But with your analysis for some reason it does not even figure.

       Strange and odd!

       • Felix Quigley says:

         “…Am I picking you up wrongly on this?…”

         Completely.

         “…I would place the devotion of the Russian people to defend their country against the Nazi Fascists as my number one….”

         What for? Everybody’s doing that, day-in, day-out, 24-7 and 365 days a year. Book upon book, movie upon movie. Why should I make that ‘my number one’? There’s absolutely no doubt that the people who fought during (any/all) wars were fighting with the utmost devotion, or under the utmost threat, from the enemy – or their own leaders.

         I am concerned with causes and reason. BTW, that’s a good method of learning from the past. Of course, if you are of the opinion that celebrating heroism is a better way to do so, that’s your prerogative.

         So, it may seem ‘strange and odd’ to you that I don’t repeat the endless heroics of Fritz and Natascha, or Ivan and Helga, but my concern are causes and effects, and the resultant further causes with their corresponding effects and, and, and…..

         See also my reply to “Green Infidel”

         Regards

     • ” In a nutshell, German intelligence saw Stalin raising division after division at the then common border between Germany and Russia”

       You mean division after division of untrained, and often unarmed, “soldiers” who in any attack would likely have been even more useless than they were in Finland?!

       If USSR wanted to attack the Nazis, then why did they not shoot down the German reconaissance planes? Why did Stalin ignore intel that the Germans were about to attack, up until the last moment?

       Soviets were not strong enough to conquer Nazis in 1941. Stalin knew it, and I suppose Hitler did too… the main reason for Barbarossa can surely only be that word which is on the first page of Mein Kampf – “Lebensraum” ?

       • Green Infidel says:

         ”…..In a nutshell, German intelligence saw Stalin raising division after division at the then common border between Germany and Russia….You mean division after division of untrained, and often unarmed, “soldiers” who in any attack would likely have been even more useless than they were in Finland?!……”

         Indeed so. Not only were the troops untrained, or at best badly trained, the officer corps was lousy! To be charitable. Stalin had most officers, from Major onward, killed and replaced by apparatchiks, he even didn’t trust his own offspring. That fact alone is assumed, or presumed, to account for about 15% to 20% of the ease with which the Germans drove back the Russians.

         As Stalin said: “Quantity has a quality all of its own!” He had no qualms about mass sacrificing his own people. He called it: ‘Human wave attacks’. His views about ‘human’ obviously differ from ours.

         “……..did they not shoot down the German reconaissance planes?”

         What reconnaissance planes? There weren’t any. Russia and Germany were allies. Like the Poles and the Germans were allies when they attacked Czechoslovakia, the Germans taking the Sudetenland, the Poles everything else. Russians and Germans held parades together, and Germans moved freely about, German and Russian freight trains were rolling by the dozen on a daily basis from Russia to Germany. German planes flew in formation with Russian planes, often training in conjunction with Russians – and observing, learning; as well as training them. The wrong tactics, of course.

         “………Why did Stalin ignore intel that the Germans were about to attack……….”

         He didn’t have any intel. When Hitler amassed German troops, he told Stalin that this was for a large scale manoeuvre, and invited even Russian officers to observe. That put Stalin’s mind at ease – and the officers he sent into POW camps.

         Immediately after the offensive began, Stalin was so shocked, he was not available for over a week to his generals. He was for several months depressed. Personally, I think he was stunned, that there was a guy who was more devious and deceitful than he was. Strange for a fellow who lived by the motto: ‘Trust is good, control is better!’ Stalin became so disparate that shortly before Pearl Harbour, pronounce “US-Aid”, he offered Hitler a partial surrender. Hitler refused, he was so cocky that he thought he can have at all without further ado. Two loonies fighting each other – and the people suffered. As always!

         Regards

         • PS: The first few months of Barbarossa are frequently described by military historians, and by surviving officer and troops, as **CHAOTIC**. German troops picked up troops of Russian soldiers who simply didn’t have the foggiest idea of what to do. Their officers gave one order, apparatchiks another, and the Commissars another one again. Utter chaos.

         • All you people arguing the toss of a war that happened 75 years ago–it’s immaterial, and you know it.

           ‘Could have done, should have done,’ is all very well, but useless. You are all well aware of how much things can change over three quarters of a century, so such musings are best left to historians. (or maybe you are?)

         • DFD – there were over 200 German reconaissance flights over the USSR, prior to Barbarossa. The Soviets’ spy in Tokyo, Richard Sorge, also warned a conflict was imminent:

           https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=CJ6IAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA243&lpg=PA243&dq=german+reconnaissance+soviet+union+1941&source=bl&ots=wDGBi653IJ&sig=xJ4IZEO95Vz2-ohpoHtg9zE-sNI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjTr5mFp_zRAhUJHZAKHbkLCjAQ6AEIVDAN#v=onepage&q=german%20reconnaissance%20soviet%20union%201941&f=false

           Also, Nazi-Soviet relations had already deteriorated, since Molotov’s visit to Berlin in late 1940, as well as events in Yugoslavia. Hitler was concerned about the Soviets being too close for comfort to the Ploesti oilfields, hence he wanted to attack as soon as possible.

         • Green Infidel,

           Yes you are right, and there are many more factors. Isn’t just black and white. From whatever angle one looks at.

           Far more interesting is of course what is today. Though the past is important, for its use of it determines the present, and thus the future.

           I tried to keep it as concise as possible without branching into too many nuances, side events etc. One can fill volume upon volume.

           But as Peter35 said, correctly: “…give a toss…” Unfortunately, he’s right. Or fortunately? 🙂

         • Peter35
           =====

           You are right of course. And it would be best to let the past be the past. Given that, yours is one of the, if not the most sensible post here. 🙂

           However, there are two factors I would urge, and beg, you to consider.

           First, a lot of the current US/European/Russian and even Chinese politics find a large chunk of their current situation in roots dating back to about 150 years, and even a little bit more. The effects of men ranging from men of wisdom like Lincoln, Bismarck etc. to the the megalomaniacs and deceivers like Stalin, Hitler and Mao are still profound. That’s without Islam. That goes back 1,400 years, and Mohamed has actuality with 1.6 billion peoples worldwide.

           So one should not easily dismiss history.

           The second factor is this, family history. The ‘great war’ (ww2 that is in Russia) is still alive in many families and discussed and stories are being told. That forms people, in addition to the ‘history books’ (which are all, shall we say “colored”?) and other media. You find the same in Germany, etc., in some nations more, in some nations less.

           Take Jewish people as a for instance, they went through a horrific trauma, irrespective of what numbers of killed one wants to ascribe to. It was a living hell, for those who survived. There wasn’t “just” killings, there was torture, abuse, rape etc. Of course, this will be told through families, may be for generations. Hence the explosions of or by some posters whenever Germany is mentioned.

           But its not all bad news, on the contrary. The Germans and the Russians for example feel very positive towards one another and want to bury the bad part of their respective pasts. The Stalingrad memorial and the ceremonies thereto is a poignant example.

           The Jews and the Germans? I am Anglo-German, grew up in Berlin and thus have a German accent. Yet, when I had difficulties in my younger days in London, Jews were the most helpful.

           So, there’s hope for human beings, at least I think so, or believe so. History? If you are interested in politics, you better learn about History. Let me put it this way: Lenin gave a lecture or held a speech, I believe it was in Finland. A student said that she isn’t interested in politics and strategy, and that she never will be important enough to matter. He replied: “You may not be interested, but politics and strategy are very interested in you, no matter your position in society.”

           Thank about it and
           Greetings

         • Hi DFD, I don’t think I have ever seen a subject such as Operation Barbarossa discussed as much here; everyone has their own pet theories as to what happened and why. Nothing is going to change…

           I agree wholeheartedly re history, it is indeed important. We are supposed to learn from it, but it’s obvious many people don’t–particularly our leaders, and in this country (Canada) we have a real pearl, Trudeau.

           Re the Russians and Germans; I’m hopeful about the former, and extremely disappointed with the latter. -Pete

2. I say, with not a small amount of regret, that I looked at the video. Those are two minutes that I’ll never get back. I could have use the time to bang my hand with a hammer, which would have been infinitely more pleasant. Such blatant, manipulated editing of footage is a grievous affront to anything with near normal or above intelligence. It makes the Nazi propaganda of the actual Hitler-era appear like works of high art and subtlety. On the other hand, I can see how it would appeal to its target audience.

3. The Germans just can’t do anything with half heart. When they needed to be Nazis, they were the best Nazis possible. When they needed to be Communists they were the most merciless ones. Now they need to be the most islamic state in Europe and they will succeed again. In the meantime they practice their propaganda muscles exercised under both the Nazi and Communists time. It seems they are already combining it with some taqiyya. Good job Germans! The road to extinction will also be an efficient one for you guys. But if you change your mind, then the world is waiting for you. We could use some good engineers to Make the World Great Again!

   • I have heard it expressed as “Germans only make big mistakes.” Starting with the wrong premise, but working out the logical implications flawlessly.

     • You are spot on! They just started the latest one…

4. It appears to me that the real message of the video may be that Hitler was not so bad after all and that Germany, unlike all other countries, never made any mistakes. The National Socialists WERE leftists after all as are many German leaders and entertainers now. Those Leftist leaders must defend their egos above all else.

   It must be very comforting to obviate all introspection by throwing stones at others.

   • I kind of had similar thoughts! But that can’t be, right? I mean, we can’t actually think that way, it would be horrible! (Sarcasm)

     • A perspective of all ego, moral superiority, and not one regret appears to make the most evil people. I must thank God I am not so sure of myself.

       Thank you for your work. I do not know how else we would know what sort of drivel that the poor Germans have to listen to.

       • I get very nervous around people who are very sure of themselves. Then there are those who admire the trait. Who are the blind ones?

         • Geert Wikders, Le Pen are very sure of themselves. Otherwise they have given up fight long ago. Surely you get very nervous around Wilders and Le Pen?

         • All the idols have feet of clay. The art in politics lies in maneuvering such that the power goes to the least harmful of a bad lot. The recent US election had a fortunate outcome in that the best of a slate of awful choices came out on top. Trump is not the messiah; neither is he Moses. Sadly, he will get blamed for much (all?) of what is going to go wrong during his time in office. That should be in the job description of every incumbent. It appears more tragic when the person is very sure of themselves; and it IS often tragic for those who believe in such leaders; but it gets people elected.

         • I should add: I ask myself … what does this self-assured person think he knows, what he should know, but does not know?

       • Wilders and LePen are reasonably sure of what is for the good or ill of their countries. This is not at all the same as egotism, moral superiority and no acknowledged regrets.

         I may have tried to use too few words in my earlier entry.

5. Wait, isn’t it illegal in Germany to defame a foreign head of state? Didn’t a German get in trouble for writing a poem about Erdogan and goats?

   • In fact, if everyone involved in this production isn’t prosecuted, other victims of speech codes can use this as a defense in all free speech cases, and also refer to this selective enforcement as abuse of process. It won’t help them, but at least it will be educational for the world.

   • Germany abolishes law that bans insulting foreign leaders
     The decision comes just days after Donald Trump’s inauguration as US President……

     …..German ministers have agreed to scrap a line of the penal code known as ‘lese majeste’, which prohibits insulting the representatives of international governments.

     Justice Minister Heiko Maas called the law “outdated and unnecessary”.

     http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-law-insulting-foreign-leaders-erdogan-jan-boehmermann-comedian-sketch-outdated-lifts-ban-a7546341.html

     The repeal is still to be passed through the lower house of the Bundestag parliament.

6. Maybe the over 60 million Americans should boycott Germany and not visit there or avoid buying big German products (cars for example) until their government stop insulting us.

   • May I point out to you that we are all sitting in the same boat? The US as well as western Europe. BTW, isn’t just the German gov (Oooohhh those evil Krauts, now shout: Nazi, Nazi!) that’s hostile and insulting to the US, it’s all of the western European governments and their press. From Berlin to Lisbon, from Oslo to Rome. Don’t think that Britain is much different, we are practically the most Islamized country in Europe – unfortunately.

     Referring to your notion of boycotting Germany (you also have to boycott the remainder of W. Europe as well), Trump complained that Germans don’t buy Chevies. I wrote about that on another website as follows:

     Germany doesn’t import Chevrolets? Actually, they do, Corvettes for instance. And Cadillacs too, the better models. Germans like good cars. But that Korean cr..- sorry, scrap with Chevy markings? No thanks. BTW, what about the Chevies made in Germany, they are called Opel(s), a 100% GM subsidiary. Ever heard of Ford, situated in Cologne and Degenham? One of Europe’s largest car makers, do they have anything to do with Ford USA? No, nothing, apart from being a 100% subsidiary. And what about the BMW and Mercedes plants in the US….? Germany’s dependence on ‘unfair exports into the US’, trade imbalances, bla bla? The entire USA accounts for only 10% (**ten percent**) of German exports. The Chinese and Russian markets are a lot more important for them, then follows the EU. I think the US is about on a par with Latin America or Africa, as far as German **net** exports are concerned.

     He wants to split the EU, so it says unofficially. I hope he does! I sure do so.

     Funny thing is, he seems to be very interested in having weak allies. Does he think that helps in his troubles with China and Russia? Well, he seems to think so. Am I sarcastic?

     End of excerpt. My sarcasm or sadness refers to Trump’s back paddling on recent issues. I was quite enthusiastic about him – well, let’s see. Maybe he needs a bit more time. After all, he is new to the job, as well to the machinations of politics.

7. Thanks to Nash Montana for the laborious translation work done!

   Traditionally, a translator is confronted with the task of bringing a text as close as possible to reality a foreign author tried to picture in an essay. Nowadays however, texts need to be translated that do not convey truth, reality or opinion, but purpose only. Even, when a text may be absolutely correct, it may only serve the purpose; typically if it is selected to picture a reality that does not exist or only exceptionally.

   Recently, the Frankfurter Allgemeine reported a case of rape occured at the University of Munich. The surprised reader asked himself why the FAZ, which never cared about violence or rape committed by migrants, would suddenly present a rape case prominently on its Internet page. The purpose was obvious; the FAZ tried to demonstrate that rape is not a problem of migrants but does as well occur among Germans at University level. Unfortunately the case missed its purpose, since the FAZ had to report days later that the rapist was of Turkish origin.

   http://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/kriminalitaet/mann-gesteht-vergewaltigung-muenchener-uni-toilette-14826048.html

   • Thank you! It’s difficult sometimes to translate correctly but I am very serious about this and I do not want to change a text. It wou;d feel like lying.

8. With all due respect for the absolutely indispensable democratic bestowal of freedom of the press, we are of the conviction that the irresponsible propagation of historical falsehoods and defamatory content should not be part of the contributions of the public broadcasting corporation ZDF. We therefore await an appropriate and suitable initiation of a public rectification of this scandalous issue, and we expect a long-term guarantee that a repeat of such incidents in the future will be efficiently prevented.

   As a matter of form, allow us to point out that we have forwarded the information about this outrageous behavior of the “Frontal 21” editors to the appropriate US authorities, and have therefore made it possible on their part to consider the potential for an initiation of criminal procedures against the responsible parties.

   With “all due respect”, Dr. Rafael Korenzecher has no respect for freedom of expression that he doesn’t like, and has no knowledge whatsoever of US laws. There is no criminal penalty for odious speech, however offensive. Dr. Korenzecher doesn’t mind advertising his ignorance.

   I’d like to take this opportunity to warn against the siren song of using the government to censor and filter speech. In a country where the press has been nationalized, there is no opportunity to simply stop patronizing offensive publications, as they are on the public dole. This is, in fact, one of the objectives of nationalizing the press (or anything else): all power and appeal goes through government functionaries, rather than through public opinion and good sense.

   Let’s take the phrase “fake news”. If you recall, the phrase was used by Hillary and Obama, in what was an obvious preparation for government intervention and criminal actions for speech they disliked. Trump turned that around on them, completely, and stuck them with their own label. But, once we concede the principle of government filtering speech, sooner or later (generally sooner), the government will suppress non-orthodox thinking.

   I don’t care about Hitler comparisons, one way or another. It’s signalling. Germany is importing millions of violent, anti-Jewish Muslims, and the Jewish representatives get in a tizzy about a stupid comedy. If these guys are going to conspire in their own destruction, can’t they at least do it in a less inane manner?

   • I doubt they would have gotten involved at all if the video would have compared Trump to Mao. They wouldn’t have a dog in that fight.

   • Hi Ronald,

     Long time no speak.

     The Germans don’t conspire in their destruction. That is wreaked upon all Europeans, and the Americans too. Courtesy School of Frankfurt, Kalergians and Hootonians. The School is as strong in the US as it is in Germany.

     Soros for instance has one of his NGOs in Berlin, The ESI, “European Stability Initiative” or “Europäische Stabilitätsinitiative“. The head of which is, surprise surprise: A personal adviser to A. Merkel! Appointed by her in turn for… What???

     That of course could not happen with Trump, no? Well, he has appointed four very rich **Goldman Sachs** managers into his cabinet, one of which is an **ex-Soros** man – ex-Soros? Well, everything is possible, it’s just that ‘possible’ and ‘likely’ are two different things. I am sure of course (who says I’m sarcastic?) that those men, as well as some other millionaires and billionaires appointed to his cabinet, will definitely look after the less fortunate Americans, rust-belt or otherwise. Who could think differently? Am I sarcastic or not?

     I’d urge you to learn about the School, it’s descendants, Anarchist and Bolshevists. While you are at it, don’t forget their competitors with overlapping interests, the internationalists, Soros & Co. And allied to both, the Muslims. One regards the other as useful idiots. The School, lacking the proletariat, particularly the international one, simply imports it! Neat, no? Well, they can, after their ‘Long March through the Institutions’, now they have arrived in practically every upper management position. For the internationalists, a golden opportunity, never mind that they are opposed to everything the School stands for. The Muslims? Thanks for the opportunity, we take it!

     Result:

     We are all in the same boat!
     =====================.

     You guys are going to conspire in your own destruction just as well. WAKE UP!

     • Hello, DFD.

       This reply is late, even for me. But, I had eye surgery.

       My reference to self-destructiveness was focused on the Jewish community, as exemplified by ” the publisher of the Jewish Review (Jüdischer Rundschau), Dr. Rafael Korenzecher”. Dr. Korenzecher had the time and energy to go after a comedian, but no time at all for addressing the most serious threat, massive Muslim immigration, to the German Jewish community, not to mention Germany itself.

       I read with interest your earlier expositions on Hitler and Stalin. I do confess to a bit of confusion as to what my impressions should be. In one posting, you allude to Hitler literally being forced to invade the Russia and its conquered territories by the Russian build-up of men and materials on the border. And even with intelligence, Hitler dithered around until too late to avoid the Russian winter.

       In another posting, you paint Stalin as the dupe of Hitler’s duplicity, misled by German military cooperation and assurances to ignore the build-up of German troops on the border.

       I am indeed interested in any writing you have done on the topic, but would like to see some reconciliation of the two views. Would you say they were both actively planning on stabbing each other in the back, but Hitler managed to get there first? Of course, that would mean that Stalin was planning to invade Germany just ahead of the Russian winter, which would interfere with Russian communications.

       My own view is that even with the numerous and disastrous tactical blunders both Hitler and Stalin made, Hitler clearly lost the war of strategy.

       1. Hitler got Britain to declare war in Germany. Hitler, from what I read, really didn’t want war with Britain, but got intoxicated with his own successes, and got caught by his own brinksmanship. Britain was an extremely formidable foe, and it was a lot easier to start the war than to stop it.

       2. Hitler brought the US into the war against Germany. The US was already substantially helping Britain with material, but the German declaration of war against the US made it easy for the US to go whole-hog in sending support to Russia.

       3. Hitler tried to conquer Russia and occupy the Eastern European countries, rather than simply wiping out Russian offensive military preparations and maintaining German military strength for defending Germany and its neighbors.

       Stalin clearly won the war of strategy by maintaining a vast network of spies and Communists in important US government positions, harnessing US industrial capacity as a supplier of the Russian military machine.

       • Hi Ronald,

         I hope your surgery went well and wish you speedy and good recovery.

         Dealing with your points.

         From your points “1.” downward, you’re right in all of them. That leads to what you said further up:

         “…Would you say they were both actively planning on stabbing each other in the back, but Hitler managed to get there first? …”

         Indeed so. Their respective ideologies and consequent aims were fundamentally opposed, irreconcilable.

         You said: “…Of course, that would mean that Stalin was planning to invade Germany just ahead of the Russian winter, which would interfere with Russian communications.”

         Indeed so. Besides, they hated each other since Spain. I don’t know if you read all what I said about this, three parts in total in this thread. But there’s no doubt, Stalin was the more crafty and cunning of the two. Having said that, he would have been “whacked” if it would not have been for US-aid. Somebody once said that without spam the Russian army would have starved to death.

         As one poster pointed out, Green Infidel, the situation between these two was deteriorating rather fast. They both knew that the other would have to move rather sooner than later, or risk to be attacked first. Stalin felt secure in so far that he thought Hitler would never risk losing his raw material supply. Adolf of course thought to be able to grab these quickly. Particularly after, what you called, his successes. They weren’t his. They were the successes of the likes of Heinz Guderian, Erwin Rommel, etc. If the OKW would have followed Hitler’s orders to the letter, the western offensive would have failed. Hitler was a military moron, living in the first world war. And his abilities were that of a Corporal.

         As far as Barbarossa is concerned, there are so many overlapping factors, it’ll keep historians busy for generations to come. For instance, also pointed out by Green Infidel, there were German recon flights over Russia {insert: I didn’t know of these, it’s always fun to learn}. That may well be, very likely actually, given the level of mistrust and the planned (mutual) backstabbing. They didn’t have to, at least not around the immediate front line. Though, they may have made recon flights further or deeper into Russia, that would make sense.

         As I said, so many factors, known ones. Unknown ones? Consider one of your statements: “Hitler got Britain to declare war in Germany” Correct. And this was about the invasion of Poland. Oddly enough, Britain and France didn’t declare war on Germany’s ally in the invasion of Poland, Russia – ever wondered why?

         And finally something to make you smile, in case you didn’t know: Joseph Vissarionovich changed his name, to the German word for steel, ‘Stahl’.

         The Germans and the Russians have more of a good history together, than a bad one. Bismarck once said that when Germany and Russia were friends, they both prospered, and so did the rest of Europe as a consequence. When they were hostile, all of Europe suffered. During that war Stalin said: “The western allies are gloating over the Russians and the Germans slaughtering one another.”

         As Friedman said a few years ago: “It is for more than 100 years US policy to prevent friendship between Russia and Germany.”

9. In 1942, Australian troops in Libya captured an intact Messerchmitt Bf109G, the latest verion of the Luftwaffe’s most numerous fighter (over 30,000 were made).

   Long story short: from the late 1970s to the early ’90s the aircraft, now the property of the UK Ministry of Defence, was restored to flying condition by a private team of enthusiasts. They sent the engine (a Daimler Benz 605) to Rolls-Royce aero engines, who told them not to break it, as they couldn’t manufacture to the same tolerances, so let’s not be too superior about German engineering.

   I had the good fortune to see it flying in 1995; sadly it was grounded following a crash landing in ’97.

   • Anyone who has owned a VW motor vehicle knows they are not really all that good. If anything, they are among the least reliable of the European marques yet in many countries they are expensively priced due to the mystical cache of ‘German engineering’.

10. you want it or not there are some similarities –

    – appeal to wide, nationalistically minded electorate
    – confronting an replacing “discredited” elites
    – simple answers to all questions
    – direct, sloganeering, macho-style publicity, sometimes quite intolerant
    – emphasis on the role of military
    – using an ethno-religious scapegoat

    frankly I see it all as curious set of coincdences.
    …

11. The Germans should remember that after bringing the biggest war in history on the european peoples they lost the war and remain an occupied country. Pieces of German humour [vulgar intensifier] like this show the lesson is not learnt still… shame on the ZDF, Spiegel and other outlets that try to revive the Great Reich way of thinking under the disguise of stupidity and naivete.

    • The Third Reich became the Fourth Reich in the guise of the European Union. An autonomous, empowered and dangerous political vehicle now at the end of its design life as envisaged by Western interests post WW2. The home of ideologies and nepotism and a perfect vehicle to transfer public money into private off shore accounts.

      The Third Reich did not capitulate after the defeat in WW2. It remains intact and strong veiled in a Brussels that is the home both of the EU and NATO. This vehicle, the EU, is now useful as a weapons platform from which to bully Russia. The immigrant influx will satisfy both the failing demographics and the ideology of cultural Marxism all in one.

      This is the biggest “take down” to known history, and it all began on Sept 11 2001 in NYC.

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