UPDATE FROM DYMPHNA
Naive am I. After all these years, one would think I’d have realized ahead of time that a post about religion would be a magnet for all the true believers across the spectrum from the strictest orthodox atheism to anti-papists to bible fundamentalists. And so it has attracted those iron filings, with hissing and spitting about doctrinal differences all the way down the page. It’s not about changing hearts and minds, it’s about leaving as many bruises as possible on the stupid people who believe something different from the One, Pure Truth. Plus ça change etc.
Well, the darn thing is up now and – unfortunately – we don’t remove posts. However, commenters be warned: anything less than absolutely civil, courteous exchanges are going into the circular file as soon as they hit the door. You’re entitled to believe anything you want, but you’re not entitled to put it on display here so you can let others know how wrong, wrong, wrong they are.
This might be a good time to learn the difference between process and content. The Baron’s post below is about the process of political correctness in the modern multi-cultural church, of whatever denomination. Unfortunately, some of the comments I’ve barred at the door are about content – i.e., doctrinal differences between/among the various denominations.
The following video is an example of the Postmodern Christian Church — Catholic or Protestant — at its worst.
According Monsignor Ubaldo Dumas, a spokesman for the Church of France, the only possible Christian response to the bestial violence of Islam is to surrender, to roll over, to turn the other cheek (all four of them, actually), to go meekly to the slaughter — in a word, to submit.
Father Dumas is fond of repeating what “Christ calls us to”, but his understanding of the Gospels is different from mine. And it’s different from the Church’s historical understanding — prior to the 20th century — of its mission. If the current Vatican interpretation had prevailed in antiquity, there would be no Christian Church today — and no Western Civilization, for that matter.
As I’ve often pointed out, Jesus instructed his disciples to carry a sword when they went on the road. Why were they supposed to carry it? To slice up pomegranates?
Or is it possible that a committed Christian might, just might, need to use arms occasionally in self-defense?
Readers who have a weak stomach may want to skip this video, because one of the listed side-effects of watching it is uncontrollable retching. I could scarcely bear to sit through it.
Many thanks to Ava Lon for the translation, and to Vlad Tepes for the subtitling:
|0:00||Hello, Monsignor Ubaldo Dumas, spokesman for the Church of France,|
|0:04||the French public and pilgrims present here at the JMJ [WYD=World Youth Day, in Poland]|
|0:09||about an attack that perpetrated in a small church in Rouvray.|
|0:12||There were victims; do you have the precise account,|
|0:15||do you know the circumstances of this drama?|
|0:18||Yes, we learned this morning…|
|0:22||by two attackers — two attackers entered|
|0:26||a small church where Mass was being celebrated.|
|0:31||The priest was killed, one of the faithful is in a serious condition today;|
|0:36||two attackers were also killed by the anti-terrorist brigades.|
|0:39||Do we know the reasons for these attacks?|
|0:42||No, for now their motives are not known. We may think, the investigation was entrusted|
|0:48||to the Department of Justice, to the prosecutor in charge of the brigade concerned with terrorism,|
|0:52||anti-terrorist; we may think that this is terrorism.|
|0:57||We have heard about this unfortunate priest, who had his throat slit,|
|1:01||and this is a practice that has become unfortunately too frequent.|
|1:04||We know that it bears the signature of the international jihad.|
|1:07||Is the Church of France targeted today? The Church of France has already been targeted,|
|1:14||you know, through jihad and ISIS, but I want to say how much here in Krakow,|
|1:21||what young people live and what we want to live,|
|1:24||what the Pope invites us to live, what Christ calls us to live,|
|1:27||this is not the logic of hatred, which is the logic of ISIS is the logic of terrorism.|
|1:31||It’s another logic: the logic of love, the sense of respect for the other,|
|1:35||a logic of a society that is built on a brotherhood that is possible.|
|1:40||Let’s not look at others with suspicion!|
|1:43||Let’s not accept that violence prevails in us,|
|1:47||that hatred starts to grow us! We have to build this civilization of love|
|1:51||that St. John Paul II, who here is being particularly honored,|
|1:54||that Saint John Paul II invited the young people to live.|
|1:57||It’s this, I think, that should animate the hearts of believers today. The hearts of young people here,|
|2:01||it’s that, what we want to live in this WYD.|
|2:04||Even as “the unspeakable” — as said the Archbishop of Rouen — blow,|
|2:09||this morning near Rouen,|
|2:12||you’re rightly reminding us that indeed the Church in France was targeted in Villejuif,|
|2:16||by an unsuccessful attack, thank God.|
|2:19||Today we can understand also, I did not mean,|
|2:23||saying what you just said, we acted naïvely, but it is understandable that the French are distraught|
|2:28||and Catholics primarily. It is normal that inside them there ripens|
|2:33||maybe not revenge, but in any case a reaction ripens;|
|2:37||but who isn’t distressed by an absurd death?|
|2:40||Who isn’t shocked and affected by violence without name and without reason?|
|2:45||We are all affected, I hope we are all affected by this attack.|
|2:49||We are struck by the bombing in Nice, we are struck by the bombing in Kabul,|
|2:52||we are struck by bombs that explode worldwide.|
|2:55||I hope that death disgusts us, because the death that was given is not what God wants for us.|
|3:00||God wants life for us, and so of course we’re distraught;|
|3:03||but this is not a reason to become locked in a logic of revenge,|
|3:07||because this is not what Christ calls us to.|
|3:10||He calls us to live this mindset, that we already have deeply inside,|
|3:15||which is the love of enemies, and which is mercy.|
|3:18||And here, during the WYD, we are being asked about this theme chosen the Pope:|
|3:23||“Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy.”|
|3:26||This is not otherworldliness or naïveté: it is seeing reality;|
|3:29||The young people here are fully enclosed in the world. We do not ask them to be in a bubble.|
|3:33||They are not in a bubble here. They are in the world. The youth of Rouen are not in a bubble,|
|3:37||they are in the world. They are struck by what has happened,|
|3:40||but they want to overcome these feelings that maybe … maybe … can move us|
|3:44||far beyond, tell that there is something else that is possible, that there’s something else that|
|3:48||we must live, and that we must live together. Because I believe that what the terrorists want|
|3:52||is to divide us, to pitch communities against each other.|
|3:57||Today Bishop Lebrun, present during the bishops’ conference, received|
|4:01||a phone call from Chaim Corsia, a Chief Rabbi of France,|
|4:04||he received a phone call from the President of the French Council the Muslim Faith|
|4:07||to affirm the solidarity of the Muslim community in France with us.|
|4:11||There, together, all men of good will, we want and we will succeed|
|4:16||to make sure that peace prevails.|
|4:19||When Jesus speaks, calling us, Christians, to become as gentle and humble as lambs,|
|4:25||like lambs that are being led to the slaughterhouse; it was never more true, than today, right?|
|4:28||Christ calls us to be gentle and humble of heart, like him.|
|4:32||He calls us to follow him, to follow him to the cross…|
|4:35||to follow thus, giving our lives. Today a man gave his life. A priest.|
|4:41||An old priest who no doubt served in a loyal way,|
|4:44||with his weaknesses and also his great joys and his qualities.|
|4:48||And this priest is now contemplating Christ, he’s contemplating his savior and creator.|
|4:52||We went, called to follow Christ up to the cross,|
|4:56||knowing that the cross leads to resurrection. When the Holy Father|
|4:59||finally spoke of a “world war by piece”,|
|5:02||of a “third world war bit by bit” that has already begun … you subscribe to this analysis?|
|5:05||I think that everywhere there are outbreaks of hatred,|
|5:09||everywhere there are people dying, all over the world there is hatred and violence;|
|5:14||However, it is not hatred and violence that’ll have the last word.|
|5:17||Thank you, Father. One last word for all pilgrims, watching us maybe,|
|5:20||and who are about to arrive in Krakow for the great opening mass|
|5:24||this afternoon. What do you want to wish them for World Youth Day, which will last until Sunday?|
|5:28||That they would dare this profound encounter with Christ,|
|5:31||that they would dare this profound encounter with each other.|
|5:34||It is in the exchange with young people who came from different walks of life|
|5:39||we will live a globalization that isn’t only virtual,|
|5:42||but that will be rooted in the reality of what drives us:|
|5:45||Christ’s love for everyone and our love for each other.|
|5:48||Thank you very much, Father. Thank you all. — Thank you.
The only problem with Crusades I can see is that they were not victorious. But the time is nigh for a new beginning.
And I am an atheist, btw.
We are Guardians of Asgard! (c) Amon Amarth
Four Cheeks–Very funny Baron.
Pope Urban the Deuce this guy is not. The Crusades were a draw. Outremer (Crusader Kingdom) lasted for approximately a hundred and ninety years Today, Les Francais can’t even go into the ZUS banlieus for a hundred and ninety minutes.
well, the Crusades were not a draw, islam still exists.
We are Guardians of Asgard! (c) Amon Amarth
Here is the last image you should see from a camera on a B61-12:
I dont know if i will ever see the answer, but what does the map mean? Im in the US. thank you
Where WE are is immaterial to the question you pose but I am quite concerned that you didn’t attempt to solve the puzzle yourself. Here’s what I got:
DeriKuk gave us two large clues –
1.A clickable link which, when opened, shows what appears to be an image taken from an aircraft’s open bomb bay (?? perhaps??) And the image directly under that open bomb bay is, ta da, the heart of Mecca. Hard to miss, but you do have to open the link to find out.
2. If, as I do, you know zip-all about aircraft you take a guess that the B at the front of the term B61-12 probably means bomber. After all, we’ve been clued in by the map image (a picture taken from the open doors of a bomber’s bay, right?). So…Google being our friend and all, we put that term (B61-12) into a search window. When we do, we’re given this as our second choice:
[The first choice was a wiki but I use wikipedia all the time so for a change I chose the second hit instead.]
Seriously, Tess, we all need to sharpen our search skills so we’ll know what others are talking about. I can’t say it’s information I particularly wanted to have – thus I avoided his link until you asked – but it *is* information we ought to have…sad as that is.
Happy hunting in the future, my dear.
I am so very fortunate you’re here and willing to look at things which I find far too dismal to read or watch.
Given the parlous state of my health of late, I religiously followed your advice in the “avoid retching” department by totally bypassing this wretch’s remarks.
Please, keep your humor flag a-wavin’. Yes to those “four cheeks” (didn’t think you noticed I’d said that during lunch), and even more so for the pomegranate slicers Christ’s disciples were told to carry. Pomegranates are tough things to split…just in case anyone wants to know one of the tricks:
Does not Luke 22:36 say, “If you have no AK-47, go and sell your cloak and buy one”. Or something like that.
Thanks to all for this great website.
Honestly-it`s like clear cold water as opposed to seventh hand sewage filtrate as given us here in the UK by the God-forsaken husk of lies that is the BBC.
I gave this clip from the Muslim Brother[hood] 1.50 seconds and then bailed out.
As someone who will be judging him very soon said-“nothing blinder than he who will not see”.
Two teenage thugs slit the throat of an old priest, doing supply work for the regular one…a few pensioners and a couple of nuns is all that`s there…and THIS craven fool is miles away in Krakow behaving like the Zen master that he`s not…and his Pope sees it as “absurd”….where`s the Duty Of Care?…or is that only for the paedophiles..who will be safely housed and not doing any public masses at the age of 85.
This case is a red line…that the Catholics have spunked it doesn`t mean that REAL Christians will follow these oafs meekly to the halal slaughterhouses.
I find videos disturbing. I’d rather read the wretched news instead. But I am getting really tired of this and I still say that a few well-placed bombs will alleviate the current situation. It is well-known that muslims are very “brave” until they are met with even or more superior forces. Then they run like chickens. We HAVE superior forces, just no will to use them. When does this end? When do our pusillanimous leaders finally get off their butts and do their duty? Their duty is to protect us from enemies, foreign and domestic, right? Well, get going already!
I just wish we had leaders who are willing to do this job and do it right. We’ll have to wait for the next election and hope the candidate with cojones wins it.
I hate to say it, but the West’s lack of will to use its superior forces and equipment is going to be its undoing.
At the pace things are progressing, it will be far too late by the time what is left of the West discovers the will to do what is necessary for its preservation.
P.S. I do not approve of the current Pope at all. Bring back Pope Be[nedict]. Or find someone who actually understands the definition of “defending” the faith. This fool is just a socialist from South America.
And yes, I am a Catholic but not a slave. I feel free to criticize what Rome has perpetrated, much to many peoples’ dismay.
Bergoglio could have not risen to primacy without the help of many powerful men within the church who believe as he does. The rot is deep and pervasive.
The fact they overthrew Benedict and forced him into retirement is quite astounding and speaks to their power.
I agree. The overthrow of Benedict *is* astounding. I still haven’t gotten over it. Would love to hear what he has to say about the situation in Germany, considering his roots.
Cardinal Burke was exiled to Malta for good reason. Bergoglio fell down the other day. He carries an enormous burden. Perhaps he will confess, “do the right thing”…
my response to the above article is from my bible-based viewpoint:
Biblical theology is important. It’s not words and traditions and nice gestures of men in high places talking about “globalism” nonsense but the very word of God. the universal church of Jesus Christ around the world (all of its divisions) needs to now have clarity and unity about this issue of Islam and the correct response of the church to the civilizational threat of Islam both to individual country’s and to the Christian church at large.
There needs to be a global Christian summit with all denominations on this and right now, not 10 years from now.
Very much so. The spiritual significance of the command in Luke 22:36, for thew apostles to arm themselves with a sword, is perhaps even more applicable to the rambling obfuscation of this fool than the natural sense., for the sword represents Truth in action in spiritual warfare. People like the Monsignor, as per his Pope and other political figures, backed by the media-entertainment complex, instead urge the opposite, which is arm oneself with lies and falsehoods, and that is leading to disaster and the disappearance of all they nominally stand for.
If the bible is “…the very word of God”…why is it full of [redacted for incivility]
I used the same word as Arnie. How come him using the word “nonsense” is civil and when I used it suddenly lost civility?
Never in any posts on this or other blogs I made a personal attacks or used bad language (hard to believe, but I have never used it in real life either). Civility is a new concept to me, when it applies to posts. Please, clarify.
Pong, in order to understand your request for clarification I had to find that comment of Arnie’s and then I had to search through yours in order to compare. It took a while, but this seems to be the difference: Arnie talked about “globalist nonsense” – that is a general criticism about one of the problems we face. On the other hand, your use of the word was aimed directly at another commenter.
Words are important but their context is even more so. Here’s the distinction:
1.If I say “the widespread normalization of promiscuity in any culture is a sign of that culture’s degradation” I am offering a generalized opinion about cultural consequences. It is an opinion that many people might believe to be untrue so they’d show up to argue against my statement.
2.On the other hand, if I say “your belief that promiscuity is acceptable is nonsense” then I’ve made a personal attack.
So even though the word “promiscuity” appears in both statements, only one of them will be redacted. I can even guess what the redaction would be: “your belief that promiscuity is acceptable is [one with which I do not agree].”
I hope this distinction clarifies the point for you.
No more “global” anything please. The Chinese church is not the African Church is not the Indian Church is not the North American church, etc. Each place has its own culture, its own pastoral needs that are best served by people they know…BTW, the ‘real’ church in China is the so-called “house church” which is outlawed in favor of the state church. But they continue to meet anyway. Rather like the Jews did in Spain, and later in North America…the Moros? I think they were called?
Actually, “Moro” is Spanish for “Moor”, i.e. a Muslim, especially one from North Africa, and/or one with dark skin.
A Spanish word for “swine” is “marrano”. The related proper noun “Marrano” refers to a Spanish Jew who nominally converted to Catholicism but continued to practice Judaism in secret, or sometimes to any convert to Christianity from Judaism.
Thanks for the correction. I shouldn’t have relied on a faulty memory to explain an important concept. It is only since we began our website that I even learned about the Marranos – and I didn’t know it was Spanish for “swine”. Even more insulting than I could have guessed.
My interest was piqued by the American experience of Marranos:
Very interesting article.
A Jewish friend once reported an estimate that the Roman Empire was 10% Jewish – and Iberia became a center of Judaism in the Western Empire, as Jews fled the repressive taxes and economic regulations of the Near East. Emmet Scott, in _Muhammad and Charlemagne Revisited_, gives an estimate of “up to one tenth” for the Jewish population of the Empire.
I knew about the Inquisition in la Ciudad de México and in Lima, the two viceregal capitals, and have visited the catacombs in Lima where the artifacts and paintings of the Inquisition are on exhibit. But I didn’t know about Cartagena.
In Lima they told me that it is the only place in the world where physical evidence of the Inquisition and its excesses was permitted to survive. So now I’m wondering if anything still exists in Cartagena.
Btw, there is a popular Cuban dish called “Moros y Cristianos” (lit. “Moors and Christians”.)
The name is politically incorrect in our contemporary US society: it refers to black beans and rice!
I cannot listen to this stupid idiotic breast.This is why France and in general western Europe is a mess, because of people like this with no [testicles] with no personality, with no energy for the fight.They will all i.e. of fear primarily and THEY DESERVE IT
they will all i.e. of fear…
There seems to be a word missing. Did you mean to write “die”, “perish”, or something to that effect?
This dangerous, deluded priest is a disgrace to his church and congregation. What ever happened to ” an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth”
Would he preach this pious nonsense in Syria or Iran?
Of course not – which makes him a hypocrite!
Can he be sacked for derelection of duty? If not why not?
I find it strange that the overwhelming message of the old Testament is about a group of people that arose out of slavery, conquered the chosen land, suppressed outsiders by slaughtering them right down to the man, women and child. The teachings of the old Testament seem to be entirely abrogated by the new Testament. Even Jesus was willing to take a whip to that which was abhorrent to him. I don’t find him all that tolerant to those outside of the faith. Would he try to convert them, yes, tolerate, never.
It depends what you mean by “tolerate”. He nowhere advocates violence against nonbelievers (which in his case would be gentiles), nor forced conversion.
You have described a very small part of the history of the Jews, but in order to make your point you lopped off millennia so as to arrive at a single nodal point of a saga that spanned far more time than is allowed for in your digest. The settling in Canaan by driving out/killing the indigenous people there before them was how tribes did things then…and now.
And were they re-settling the place they’d been driven from by the Assyrians so many generations before? *Why* was that place The Promised Land?
Was not their exile/slavery in Egypt and before that, an earlier diaspora in Babylon (where they appear to have left DNA traces among the Kurds) part of the foundational mythos that all groups develop over time?
If you read the Pentateuch carefully you’ll notice how the two competing tribes (in the north, Israel, in the south, Judah) wove their stories into an acceptable whole which encompassed their two names for the “only God” – Elohim and Yahweh – and both versions of Eden. In one version God created Adam and Eve at the same time, in the other story Eve was created out of Adam’s rib because God noticed Adam was lonely. There are many threads in that story, each group having a subsequent say in what would eventually be codified once and for all.
Most Christians don’t consider Jesus’ life and teachings to have “abrogated” the lives and rules of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob or the Mosaic Law. In their view, Jesus perfected it.
Notice something, though: if you change a few terms in your version of the settling of Canaan, you have summed up the settling of North America. IOW, human nature. The lesson I take away from studying that template is this: if we don’t learn to forgive one another, we will end up murderously divisive – just like the Religion of Peace.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum, y’all.
Not a word about the prophet, the texts or Islam. Nada…or Rien.
“Christ calls us to be gentle and humble of heart, like him. He calls us to follow him, to follow him to the cross…” this is the crux of the priest’s interview. Follow him to be slaughtered. If this priest really believe that tripe he would immediately gather up all his fellow priest and go to Syria to use the power of love and defeat ISIS once and for all.
Bakunin and the old anarchists were right. Put the priests in the front line and test their belief in love and forgiveness.
Funny that my comment has been automatically deleted for telling the truth about the Muslim loving Roman Catholic church.
Your comment wasn’t “automatically” deleted. It waited for me to have the time to moderate it, and then it was manually deleted for violating our guidelines for commenting.
The Muslim-loving dhimmi Christian church is a piece of p.c. the Marxists sold to mainline churches a generation ago. Roman Catholicism hasn’t got the exclusive rights to that unfortunate myth. It’s just that they have a leader the jornolists like to follow around and quote. If they’d pay as much attention to the other denominations, the story would be the same.
Which is why many of the mainline churches in America are hemorrhaging members and ministers.
A few counties over from us there’s a YUGE Roman Catholic monastery in the final stages of completion. I’m told the supervisor of building contractors is a woman – fancy that – and when the outsiders’ work is done, the monks themselves will be self-sustaining.
These men are moving from the upper midwest – Minnesota, I think – to make room for all the new postulants who’ve applied and been accepted. IIRC, it takes about six years of formation to go from novice to fully-fledged monk – either as a priest or a brother.
As men are more and more humiliated by our current Western culture, we’ll see more of these places go up, but it will be a quiet revolution, unnoticed except for the people who live near their monasteries and are glad to have them as neighbors. Raises their real estate values and they don’t throw noisy parties.
Who knows…when the upheaval finally begins these places may serve the same function they did in the so-called Dark Ages: a place of refuge for neighboring villagers.
“If they’d pay as much attention to the other denominations, the story would be the same.”
Some would be even worse.
The alliance of churches and islam is based on having the common enemy – atheism. Islam, when in power, will not abolish christianity for they need dimmis to work and sustain moslems. Atheism will be abolished and punished, so the churches will be full again.
> so the churches will be full again.
No, they won’t. Thinking people do not need buildings of worship; nor do they need the blindness of atheism and statism. There is a universal alternative:
Monsignore Dumas and the catholic church know two sides only, love and hate, but no common sense.
Who speaks about hate in response to mohammedan slaughter?
Required is a logical and consequent reaction:
– No further mohammedan immigration.
– Consequent and immediate repatriation of all mohammedans with any due christian love by Monsignore Dumas.
Ann Barnhardt minces few words in her critique of Red/Green:
This coward and fool of a cleric doesn`t even understands his own religion.
When someone hits you on the right cheek, at that time meant, that he had beaten you with the back of his hand.
Like a superior beats someone who has a lower rank in society.
Holding the other (and left) cheek in this context means, that you should meet your opponent on the same level.
And not to just back down.
So that he has to hit you as an equal person – with the palm of the hand.
There’s no reasoning with someone who believes Christ calls us to allow psychopaths to chop us up.
I love it when I hear sense!
How can the church (universal and all shades) believe they are staying true to Christ’s command in Matthew 28 “Go into all the world and preach the gospel” (meaning the “good news that Jesus is the saviour of the world) and at the same time talk of commonality with Islam. Islam is a religion that seeks to compete with Christianity in fact to undermine Jesus’s “great commission” to his disciples.
Seems to me you can’t have it both ways, Christ may have called for sacrifice of self in the life of his followers, but he never called for compromise of the message. And that is what the clueless clerics do.
Clerics do not lead, they follow – whether it be their supervisor or their paymaster.
No they don’t, and in many cases the “sheep” do not recognise the Clerics as “shepherds” (in the Biblical sense). They are merely hired men, and many sheep do not listen to their voices.