Tommaso Ghirelli, the Bishop of Imola, seems to have gone off-message, at least from the point of view of the Vatican. He has called for better behavior on the part of Muslims, demanding that they reciprocate the kindness shown to Muslim refugees by the West, instead of persecuting and slaughtering Christians.
Many thanks to par0 for translating this Italian TV interview, and to Vlad Tepes for the subtitling:
From the notes that accompanied the video, also translated by par0:
Tommaso Ghirelli Bishop of Imola: “Muslims, be men of honour or go away.”
From the Nuovo Diario Messaggero: “We ask for the Muslims amongst us to take a stand against the persecutions and the violence. Otherwise they should have the courage to distance themselves from our land.”
Mohammed Sabir, president of the Islamic House of Culture of Imola, has decided to postpone any public announcement until the 11th September, the day of the commemoration of the victims of the attack on the Twin Towers of New York, regardless of the announcements of condemnation of ISIS by the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia.
Video transcript:
| 0:00 | Monsignor Tommaso Ghirelli asks for a stand against the persecution. | |
| 0:04 | Muslims: be men of honour, or go away. | |
| 0:08 | OK, strong words; however, I think we have arrived in the moment in which we have to | |
| 0:22 | make things clear, not be hypocrites, and get to the bottom of the questions. | |
| 0:28 | For 40 or 50 years that the Christians in the Middle East have had to emigrate, | |
| 0:34 | to go away, have been driven from their homes and their lands. | |
| 0:43 | In Iraq and Syria, they (Christians) have been present since the beginning of Christianity. | |
| 0:50 | After 2,000 years in a civilisation as advanced as ours, | |
| 0:56 | we, without raising an eyebrow, without acting, allow this to happen. | |
| 1:04 | Never mind talking about the killing and crucifixion of people, these terrible cruelties. | |
| 1:15 | A bit of animation, a bit of debate, a bit of coherence on these things, | |
| 1:29 | also because on our behalf we have welcomed many people, | |
| 1:34 | also recently the caritas of Imola, refugees in various instances, | |
| 1:41 | and on the other side what happens? I would like to see signals of reciprocity being given. |
The bishop is telling the obvious truth that has been around for the last 40 years.
Why only one or two people are courageous enough to say the truth. And why Italian politicians, as all DARING LIARS/ western politicians, never come near the obvious truth, and continue with importing jihadis.
Wasn’t the idea of democracy created to avoid disasters like this: the invasion of Europe.
The bishop knows and feels the danger but cannot do anything: He has no authority. The one with authority is our enemy and jihadi-friendly. What a strange world and strange democracy. Any system of government is run by people and their ideas, conscience, honor, . . .
If politicians are dishonorable and unscrupulous, it does not matter what you call that system.
A system needs logic, commonsense, conscience and faith in values. Values that lead to a goal. In the west there are no vales no goals. Western politicians drawl day and night about freedom and democracy, while we have neither.
Democracy was not created to import muslims to rule over us.
The bishop’s telling the truth will make many Italian politicians angry and accuse the Church of bad attitudes towards muslims.
The bishop expects reciprocity. What a naive Europe population.
Mulims usurped 57 countries and never returned them to their rightful Christian or Jewish owners.
Today they are ganging up to seize Israel and have convinced the gullible EU that it is theirs.
Once western politicians are initiate a project, say like importing jihadis, they never stop it.
Stopping islamization should not be done through elections: until the right party comes to power. T his disease is urgent it needs radical and immediate decision.
Election, democracy to stop this looming lethal threat… what a joke.
You cannot wait until tomorrow …. now. Not after two hours.
Democracy will bring Europe’s demise.
Western politicians live in their own world, they don’t live near no-go-zones, and near shariah-compliant districts.
“Why only one or two people are courageous enough to say the truth…) Every movement begins with just one person – the strength of the idea is an indication of its likely success; think Copernicus versus Ptolemy…
Someone needs to enlighten the dear misguided bishop. The idea of reciprocity by muslims is absurd on its face, as muslims regard themselves as the best of peoples and are explicitly instructed in the quran to be harsh toward Unbelievers. Psst, bishop, by killing the Unbeliever, muslims are following the example set by muhammed himself, and therefore are acting honorably. The most devout muslims who take their islam straight up believe that the surest way to enter muslim paradise is to kill or be killed in allah’s cause. Finally, as for distancing themselves from your land, it will apparently come as a shock to you that muslims don’t regard your land as your land. Instead it belongs in the dar-al-harb, the house of war, where the Unbelievers are in control, but only until muslims can gain the upper hand through jihad and convert your land into the house of islam. After all muslims believe the whole world belongs to allah, and regard any lands now ruled by Unbelievers not only as a temporary arrangement, but also an unjust one.
Yes, but – who cares what angle the bishop approaches the problem, the thing is he’s approached it.
It’s good to keep up the dialog and argumentation and let them steep in our western logic. Once in awhile we create an apostate and, if enough, we could be instruments of an Islamic reformation. This is what will save us because we can’t kill a billion + Muslims. Personally, I think we should keep explaining to them that their religion doesn’t have much love. This might resonate if we can induce a mindset of how they would feel so much better, themselves, if their communities began to express more love to each other, to women, to neighboring religions and states, to Jews and Christians. Patience, persistence, logic, and if we convert a hundredth of one percent we might save our world. What else can we do?
Oh Mr Palmer how I wish your words were true. The relentless slaughter on the Indian continent, the razing of thousands of temples, the emasculation of so many men and the use of women in harems…
They care not one whit about love. Or rather, their “love” is for the stronger horse. This is a culture which will kill its daughters and wives for some imagined violation of that code.
Love? Dialogue? They would roll on the floor laughing. And then run you through with a sword. Read what Churchill has to say of his own experience with Muslims. Read Mark Twain’s shocked reaction to what he saw.
Read Dr. Andy Bostom’s explanation/description/historical reconstruction of the terrors visited on the Armenians…as he points out, of a magnitude greater than the current ISIS slaughter:
http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2014/09/13/my-hannity-appearance-ottoman-caliphate-atrocities-1915-19-an-order-of-magnitude-greater-than-those-of-isil/
Islam is deadly. No mercy, no love, no compassion, no Truth or Beauty. Just endless rape and destruction. They even “use” their infant girls for their own sexual pleasure and if they damage her so that the wall between the bladder and the bowel is obliterated, then they have to pay for her upkeep. THAT is Islamic justice, sir.
THERE IS NO CHANCE OF AN ISLAMIC REFORMATION. WHAT YOU ARE SEEING IN THE MIDDLE EAST WITH THE SLAUGHTER OF ALL THE “APOSTATES” – i.e., SHI’A MUSLIMS – THAT IS THEIR REFORMATION, THEIR PURIFICATION IN OBEDIENCE TO ALLAH.
They claim they will “win” and conquer the West because we are burdened with loving life more than death. They, on the other hand, worship death. They freely choose to kill themselves in order to slaughter you and your children. too. That is Islam’s glory: death and more death.
What else can we do?? You mean we should sit and wait for the slaughter? I would rather die fighting back than submit…
Patience, persistence and logic? Absolutely: patiently read their core documents. Persist through all the hateful verbiage. Use your God-given deductive powers to understand what we have to do to save our world. Otherwise, Mr. Palmer, get near enough to them and your children and everything you love will be fed through large shredders by Islam.
Our mistake- among others – was leaving the Middle East before the job was finished. It’s like failing to take the whole dose of antibiotics because you’re feeling better and don’t need it, thereby creating resistant strains of bacteria that will be difficult, if not impossible to kill.
I can’t quite decide if your questions are sincere or if you’re being deliberately provocative. It is hard to fathom this level of wishful thinking when I see you’ve have 28 comments approved.
In addition to Dr. Bostom, try reading Robert Spencer. There is a wealth of information out there about this enemy. Read it while you can. We have 1400 years of testimony from those who survived this horror. And you want to try reasoning with them? Incredible, sir.
This is a first: Dymphna reduced finally to stunned silence…
You are absolutely right, Dymphna, that there is no possibility of reformation in Islam.
My go-to source for clear-eyed writing about Islam is the late Lawrence Auster, whose work is archived at http://www.amnation.com/vfr/
Mr. Auster, I might add, had some impatience with Robert Spencer, whom he said was stuck on exposing radical Islam, but could not bring himself to denounce Islam itself and never addressed the urgent need to halt immigration of Muslims nor had he a plan to send them back to their ancestral lands or countries of origin.
L.A.’s speech, “A Real Islam Policy for a Real America” is a must read for all thinking Americans who have not yet read it.
As always, thank you for bringing so many other bold voices to our attention: Wood, Coughlin, Warner, Wilders, and so many others.
And yes, when Islam considers honor to be the killing of intractable daughters, we must conclude that Islam does not share the Western definition of the word. It’s a vain hope to expect Muslims to bow to Western notions of what is virtuous and what is not.
Palmer:
“What else can we do? ”
What a desperate cry!
No, I and you and ordinary voters cannot do anything. Politicians make decision for us. In a totalitarian democracy all decisions are made in the interest of muslims, and against the native people. Why western politicians are like that no one knows.
Just like a dictatorship: we need someone to salvage us from our tyrant politicians.
They are destroying us in the name of charity of multiculti.
“… because we can’t kill a billion + Muslims.”
Oh,no? William, there is an increasing number of sane ,rational people out there who sincerely believe that removing these backward people is the only way to save our civilisation.
The other thing to bear in mind is: they would kill a billion + of us if they could.
Dymphna, Let me elaborate. You are putting your own context in and thus missing the thrust of my post.
Of course we shall have to fight-probably beyond what anyone imagines in intensity and duration. Terrible dilemma.
I also have read nearly every main reference of Spencer and Fitzgerald…(I could not find The Reliance of Travelers, however. )
One of the choices you believe we have, I guess, is to fight or subdue in some way all the Muslims. Or you might say that you believe that utter military dominance by the US will deter all significant terrorism.
I don’t believe we have that choice. Too many Muslims. Too scattered and diffuse. Too expensive. We are differing only on this strategy. If I am wrong, tell us your strategy.
I believe that we have to create apostates and that this is the ultimate way of winning. Alas, we have done some of that and they decorate this fine site and many others. It is a proven method. I believe you do this by arguing and teaching history and by living an exemplary life. That is exactly what you guys are doing here. Congratulations!
The reason I bring love into the strategy is that I think it would chime with what many of the passive Muslims already believe…. that is missing from their own Islam. I have no religious reason for this and I am not a religious person. I’m a retired scientist. It’s a guess. It’s that when you distill Islam it seems striking that there is so little love in it, and to use this argument with Muslims has a good chance of resonating.
What is bringing this to the fore now is Obama’s sudden intention of ultimately destroying ISIS. Almost everyone important believes this cannot be done without using ground forces, tremendous management and coordination, a unified command, highly secret strategy and a dominant US role. Even if hugely successful, you are still going to end up with fragments of ISIS-like organizations and problems scattered over the entire world. My post was simply trying to imagine a way to mop up all these micro conflagrations going on for ever and ever.
But what do you think we should do for the long run problem?
I addressed that question by referencing Lawrence Auster’s speech which you can find here:
http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/012935.html
Please take the time to read it, and reply if you choose to do so.
The ONLY hope for the West is to end non-discrimination as the ruling principle of society. Sadly, dangerously, too many conservatives are themselves infected with this civilizational-suicidal-plague on humanity.
Thanks for posting the link Harriet, a great read. What a loss to us his intellect was, I think his essay “The Path to National Suicide” is also excellent.
Yes, and Huddled Cliches. And, and, and — so many other writings, the vast majority of which are in the form of discussions on his now-archived blog. I had the honor of attending his last, annual Christmas-time dinner in NYC on Dec. 8, 2012. So yes, I am a great admirer of his contribution — which I believe is without peer — to articulating the great issues of our time from a traditionalist conservative (read that: true to reality) perspective.
Nice to learn of your appreciation of his work as well.
Telling Muslims to be more caring is like telling a hornet not to sting, “…and be sure to pass that on to the rest of the hive, …ok?
Yeah, right.
Being horrified and shocked and disgusted with Islam does not advance our goal. Our goal must be to cause Jihad and it’s foundational ideas to disappear..forever.
I think you do this one Ayaan Hirsi Ali at a time.
Oh, I think there will be a lot of Abu Musab al-Zarqawis, too.
One at a time? With over a billion Muslims in the world, would you care to estimate how long that would take? not even considering the fact of their vastly greater birthrates?
Peter: hard to believe, but there is a joke illustrating this plan which I quote from a Nelson Demille novel:
the secretary of defense and a general are discussing the ” matter” .At some point, the secretary suggests to call in his assistant and ask his opinion.
” Jones, what would you say if we decided to kill 500 million muslims and one beautiful blue-eyed blonde?”
“Sir, why would you want to kill a beautiful blonde.?”
“Thanks for your opinion, Jones,you are dismissed.
You see, general, nobody cares about 500 million muslims”!
One death is a tragedy. One million deaths is a statistic.
These comments remind me of the joke about the muzzie that visited the set of the old Star Trek series.
He saw all different human races, as well as a plethora of ‘other’ species and peoples–but wondered why he never saw any muzzies.
His answer: “Star Trek is in the year 2300–it is our FUTURE”.
I don’t think there is any other long term strategy, other than trying to change their minds, aka apostacism. Well, I guess we could just sit and watch and hope for another Ataturk. This seems quite risky, but the Ottoman Empire did vanish for awhile and it was pretty quiet for a few years until Sayyid Qutb came along. So there could be some logic in assuming radical Islam is a flash in the pan. To risk everything on this assumption seems psychotic to me.
In counterterrorism in general there are some useful guidelines laid down by Sir Robert Thompson, a Brit civil servant in Malaya after WWII. Our predicament probably fits.
Here are the principles:
1. You need support of the population. Winning means getting people on your side rather than amassing corpses. 2. You need a counter vision that can match that of the terrorists’ communism or Islamism or whatever. Eg it might be granting political autonomy or some new economic program. 3. You need to run good government whilst you are fighting terrorism: getting rid of corruption, fair taxation, decent infrastructure, etc. 4. You must not overreact to guerrilla provocations. This could weaken your base in the people. 5. Big battalion operations may sometimes be needed to split guerrilla forces into smaller sizes 6. Mobility and aggressive small unit action is extremely important. The enemy must be kept on the run constantly. 7. Must embed counter-insurgent units with police and local civilian security forces and local military. 8. Counter-insurgent forces must be familiar with local culture. 9. Intelligence gathering must be intense and cunning and deceit are appropriate. 10. Ink spot clear and hold tactics with methodical dividing of conflict areas is needed for thoroughness. 11. Try to organize and use peoples’ militias and mass popular forces. 12. You don’t want foreign outside aid too much. It will often try to take over and offers guerrillas too much propaganda to the world community.13. Don’t allow politics to limit your time. It may take a long time to clean up guerrilla forces and rushing can cause failure.
I think numbers one and two are particularly relevant to our present discussion. We really need to change some minds. Enough and we may find a watershed or a reformation.