Our British correspondent JP sends a selection of comments from The Telegraph, and includes this note about the material he has chosen:
This is a batch of comments from two Telegraph blog entries, one about imposition of British values on the recently arrived, and the other about the Trojan Horse controversy. There are some thoughtful and highly Islamo-critical comments, including a couple discussing Tommy Robinson’s recent release and the conditions attached.
What is interesting about some of the comments is that they are not immediately removed by zealous, sharia-compliant moderators.
I have added one word [hand] in square brackets to the comment by “lightindesert”. Apart from that, they are all as originally posted.
Perhaps the mood of the ‘meeting’ might be summarised as:
1. Islam is anathema to our way of life and has to be dealt with at some point. 2. British values exist, but it is futile to impose them on communities that despise them. 3. Craven Quisling canting hypocrisy is a value clung to dearly by our leaders.
by Janet Daley
We must insist that ethnic communities change their habits and expectations in order to become active participants in their new homeland
US presidents may address their people as “my fellow Americans”. French national leaders can open their speeches with an appeal to the “men and women of France”. Try to picture a British prime minister saying something of the kind and it will probably make you laugh…
[Reader comment by Mike on 14 June 2014]
Ok what the hell is going on?
Up until about a month ago this sort of article would NEVER have been viewed as acceptable, it smacks of being anti muslim, therefore islamphobic, therefore racist!
But all of a sudden our newly liberated press are extolling the virtues of being British and almost demanding that those who arrive on our shores should integrate, what next, acceptance that we, being British even actually exist?
there seems to be a dramatic change in the air, but is it to do with newly found press freedom, or maybe the fact the telegraph has seen a massive drop in subscriptions, or is it the rise of UKIP?
Forgive my cynicism but having not seen this sort of change and these sorts of articles for so long I am somewhat suspicious!
[Reader comment by rogermurrayclark on 15 June 2014]
EDL leader Tommy Robinson has just been released from prison.
It might be recalled that he was jailed for mortgage “fraud” ie he put up a deposit for a relative and signed an income declaration which exaggerated the relative’s income; pretty heinous stuff obviously — and were this to be applied generally hundreds of thousands would have been prosecuted, And as for Fred Goodwin and the rest, what happened to the criminal prosecutions there?
Anyway he was sentenced to 18 months, so if he had not been released early he would have been incarcerated till July 2015.
But conditions entirely unrelated to the mortgage fraud conviction have been imposed, breach of which means a return to prison eg “NO person(s) who are involved with the EDL may contact him, directly or indirectly”
What’s this to do with mortgage fraud?
So this was a political prosecution and trial from the outset.
How does this accord with the spirit of Magna Carta and “British Values”?
[Reply to rogermurrayclark by jollyjamba on 15 June 2014]
On a BBC political programme that operated a phone in on the issues discussed, 96% of those phoning in supported the statement that the EDL spoke for them.
TR and the EDL have been and are demonised in the MSM in accordance with NUJ guidelines. The state has persecuted TR using the police and the judiciary, and no doubt the intelligence services. Death threats against him by the Muslim community have been ignored by the police.
As a white working class male he does not have friends in high places to protect him against this persecution, unlike, say, Cyril Smith. This persecution by the state of those who exercise free speech to oppose the state is something we expect to see in dictatorships.
When will a MSM journalist with courage and integrity expose this scandal?
[Reader comment by Dave_Bould on 14 June 2014]
“We must insist that ethnic communities change their habits and expectations in order to become active participants in their new homeland”
No. No… No.
This is not their homeland, this is England, the homeland of the English. Something these third world imports are not, or can never be! We don’t celebrate diversity, we never wanted it, it was forced on us by dishonest politicians, many of whom are not English themselves.
These colonists have contributed absolutely nothing that we could not have done for ourselves if the jackanapes in Wasteminster hadn’t progressively wrecked our education system and made welfare dependency an easy and acceptable lifestyle.
I generally like you Janet, you normally speak sense, but on this issue you’re way wide of the plate. Mass immigration, multiculturalism and above all, the importation of islam into this country have been an unmitigated disaster.
We now have unwanted Roma immigrants battling unwanted Pakistani and Bangladeshi immigrants for control of English streets, Turks battling Somalis. This will all end very badly Janet, with much blood shed on all sides. And no amount of liberal handwringing or ‘teaching British values’ in schools will stop it. The die has been cast… all that remains to be done is for us to ‘Tool up’, train up and be ready when TSHTF.
[Reader comment by lightindesert on 15 June 2014]
For people in the West to appreciate what Islam is and understand the gravity of the situation in their countries and in the World as a whole, I believe they need to draw on certain concepts and attitudes which have now been well formulated and established in their psyche and which can immediately help identify what the appropriate attitudes towards Islam should be and how to effectively contain its danger and defeat its purpose.
They first should think Fascism & Nazism and conjure the long and painful history from the appeasement to the effective struggle against these ideologies. They should recall the morality of such struggle and the high grounds on which they stood which were a deciding factor in their victory. It will not take much study and comparative analysis of Islamic sources, particularly those which detail the lives of Islam’s prophet and his companions, to understand that Fascism and Nazism in fact are a far less evil and soul destroying ideologies than some of the Islamic teachings.
The second paradigm to see Islam in, is malignancy and cancer. This is not a call to deride Islam but an attempt to help see Islam for what it is and understand its danger. Islam grows silently and Islam continues to grow. In fact like any cancer there is no aim for Islam but to grow and continue to grow. Islam is prepared to change colour and mould into anything as long as this allows and promotes its growth. Islam grows, through polygamy and high birth rates, military conquests, conversions, forced or misled, through marriages, deceit, bribery, threats or any other means one can think of. Islam on the other [hand] is very effective in maintaining its gains and growth. Being a one way street where no loss acquired mass is allowed, Islam can only grow.
However, where all of this leaves us in terms of the many nice and kind Muslim friends, neighbours and colleagues? What of that pleasant chap at the newsagents? Or that valiant Muslim man who helped us once when nobody else seemed to be willing to?
This is where the third paradigm can help to understand the continuum which Muslims can slide up and down on.
HIV vs AIDS is a very useful paradigm to help understand the relationship between moderation and extremism with Islam, the potential effect on society and the type of attitudes we should have while dealing with this danger.
HIV patients are normal nice people who should not be ostracised. They need help and sympathy and they need acceptance but also treatment. They have a problem and unfortunately they are the most effective means of spreading the deadly virus. The practices which can help spread the virus should be prevented and outlawed.
Only if Western societies and institutions manage to formulate a model of understanding Islam which combines these concepts that they will become equipped to deal with Islam and its multiple faces.
[Reader comment by stoffel45 on 15 June 2014]
They, the bosses in the Labour and Conservative Parties, the senior Policemen, MI6, Special Branch – they all know what is going on with islam in Britain. They have all known for decades, that islam, all muslims in the UK and outside, are waiting for the “Right Time” to take over our country.
The muslims have NO moderates – that is scam propaganda from the Government and the Government’s media. Yes, they want our schools and they want our whole industry and they want our local and National Government. They want it all and have been planning for centuries to take it over. The wars against muslims and their foul islam did not end at the Gates of Vienna – it never ended.
Yet still, some will squeak, “But I know some very decent muslims. They go to their Church as we go to ours.” Yes, but when WE go to OUR Churches we do not pray for the overthrow of muslims – as they pray for the overthrow of US by THEM.
Islam was never a religion. Muhammed was a young bandit in his family’s business. They robbed and killed. They even attacked his uncle’s caravans. No he wasn’t a nice young man. Then he invented islam. It was written by him and his friends because Muhammed did not write. It was added to over the years. Not because of divine revelation but because more groups needed to be limited. He said it was the word of his fantasy allah.
It was a violent cult. People were murdered in the name of the invented God. He even had his aunt and uncle burned alive.
Islam means “Submit” in the imperative. Muhammed’s horde’s attacked and held mass beheadings, creating pyramids of severed heads. The survivors waiting their turn were given the choice, “Submit or share their fate.”
So it is today. Submit or be killed. You cannot turn from islam or you die. If your daughter or wife threaten islam’s word – in the name of honour – she must be killed.
Islam is akin to a deadly cancer and it is in our midst. We must expunge it.
We cannot trust our “Political Leaders” to protect us. It was Labour who imported millions of muslims for their votes. Damn their eyes. Damn Blair and all the rest of them.
There is not just one Trojan Horse – there are tens of thousands of them.
[Reader comment by witchend on 15 June 2014]
“Don’t ‘teach’ British values — demand them”
Great suggestion Ms Daley. One big snag though. You’d have to hold a gun to the heads of the inept, wishy washy liberals , in whatever party in the HoC, who are currently in charge of this country to get it done.
Otherwise expect your ideas to fall on stony ground, as they come out with the usual plethora of handwringing excuses blaming everyone in the country as bigots or racialists for speaking out on a subject which is not only as plain as the nose on my face, but going to get considerably worse.
Even the gory public execution of a British soldier on the streets of London, just last year, was discretely pushed to one side’ nothing to see here, move along there’, after the initial rage of the British people was politely ignored ( that is the real British — not the travelers from foreign parts who were quite noticeable in their silence) )
by Andrew Gilligan
The Birmingham schools scandal has been exposed — but the problem is far from over
Speaking on Channel 4 News the week before last, Samir Rauf, a teacher at Birmingham’s Oldknow Academy, cut an apparently convincing figure of injured virtue as he proclaimed the school’s innocence of charges that it had been taken over and “Islamised” by Muslim hardliners…
[Reader comment by Dobunnichris on 15 June 2014]
As a retired lecturer I can pass on my experience of Teaching Unions, both in schools and Colleges….they have an agenda which is to help promote and protect minorities against the perceived values and principles of the host country. They have been actively involved in pushing Islamic values and practices in inner city schools which have dominant Muslim demographics. They will actively undermine and frustrate any Govnt, initiatives to promote “ Britishness “ and “ British values “ seeing it as inherently “ racist “ and in direct conflict with their liberal/socialist approach to education. Gove has to marginalise and isolate the Unions in any measures that are taken to counteract Muslim fundamentalism….they have been infiltrated by those with an isolationist agenda.
Secondly, all Schools and Colleges should now be given the power to liaise with other Govnt agencies to ensure that Muslim staff have no links with proscribed fundamentalist groups.
Third, the use and display of the English flag in Schools and Colleges should be mandatory….if Muslims object because they believe it to be the Crusaders flag and the flag of the enemies of Islam they are free to leave and live in a country whose national flag they don’t find objectionable. THEY ARE IN A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY WHOSE FLAG IS THE FLAG OF ST.GEORGE. How many mosques have ever been seen flying the Union Jack or the flag of St. George?
Muslims must now choose……integrate or leave….isolationism is no longer an option and you are now under an increasingly critical spotlight. The choice is theirs and by staying here and not respecting our culture and values they are identifying themselves as the enemy within that we will have to deal with.