The Problem with Gates of Vienna Is…

Okay, I’m going to give this meme its five minutes before we move on. Any number of people have said similar things, but this comment by “Timmy” will serve the purpose of bringing this kind of talk to an end.

Timmy says:

…the problem is a lot of the commentators here are from the US and because of that they cannot see or feel the diametric shift that has occurred in British society as a result of what the EDL has done.

The EDL has basically taken the fight from a whisper between close friends and a few blog posts to an every day level of conversation.

Whats more the outing of muslim pedophile gangs would still be a dirty secret hushed up by the police, social services and the media, along with many other news worthy events. Now the media are at least willing publish these articles and to mention that these people are muslims.

Hopefully the EDL will carry on to ensure that the media does not volt face and start hushing things up again.

The first assertion is wrong on a number of levels. Timmy says:

…the problem is a lot of the commentators here are from the US and because of that they cannot see or feel the diametric shift that has occurred in British society as a result of what the EDL has done.

To which I would answer:

First, we have a goodly number of English (and British and Anglosphere) readers, commenters and donors.

Second, the Baron works with a number of Brits on the transatlantic team and they keep us informed in detail.

Third, we do indeed pay attention to the shifts and swings taking place within an increasingly sovietized England. Any regular reader of this site is aware of that.

Fourth, of the two American blog administrators, one lived in Yorkshire in his formative years and had a fine English education back when such things existed. In fact, his A Level work permitted him to skip a year of university when he returned to the U.S.

Fifth, we have been following the EDL since it first began — actually, before it began and was almost strangled at birth. Those were tumultuous times.

Sixth, because of the fast pace of Britain’s alarming sovietization, many more things happen than can ever be discussed publicly. As we have said, ad nauseam ad infinitum, TEAMwork is our raison d’être and it will continue to be so. What the Baron does in helping this transatlantic operation stay together is just a small piece of a larger and very crucial whole which takes in a number of countries. England ranks high in that effort.

In sum, we have kept abreast of what is happening in Britain, sometimes to the neglect of what goes on here. To assert that we have not seen nor felt the changes going on over there simply means you haven’t been paying attention.

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Then Timmy talks about the future in a blithe fashion, as though the EDL has ever controlled what the media chooses to pay attention to. We have the same problem here in the US: only the most unflagging effort will get the media to turn itself toward the horizon of reality. It’s a tough, unrelenting battle. Because of the advent of alternative, ‘new media’ via the internet change has taken place at the margins. As the Baron has said, those marginal changes make a difference in the long run.

So when Timmy says:

Hopefully the EDL will carry on to ensure that the media does not volt face and start hushing things up again.

It sounds as though he thinks the EDL can stop the media from doing the tawdry things it does. I don’t agree.

So rather than go into details about getting ‘round the media trickery — which is eternal — let’s look at the EDL itself, considered as a group,to see if it can effect an internal change — i.e., clean its own house.

If you understand anything of group dynamics, you know that the EDL function(ed) as a “dependent work group” — i.e., its efficacy lay in the extent to which the larger group looked to the leader(s)’ charisma and ability to energize the ‘grass roots’. In England, even more so than in this country, all populist efforts are viciously demonized by the ‘upper’ classes. Here, they would be called the elites — media, academia, higher level bureaucrats, etc. In England, the socio-economic classes are more distinct and more mutually hostile; in the U.S. one can more easily move among the groups by the simple method of changing allegiances. Except in extreme cases, there is no need to work on one’s vowels.

Therefore, the ability of the EDL to continue functioning without Tommy and Kev’s energy and leadership means it will have to metamorphose into a different kind of work group. Charismatic leadership isn’t usually transferrable, so the group itself will have to change. That will require a kind of characterological transformation on an individual level; sadly, such basic alteration isn’t easily come by.

Study the way the Al-Qaeda groups operate to get a sense of what will be required:

  • Individual members will have to attach themselves to small groups which may or may not function within larger groups;
  • Each group will have a particular project or goal. There may be a rotating leadership position within the small group, each one chosen because his or her expertise is best for the given project;
  • Finally, at least some of the groups will have to change their image: some of the skinheads have to let their hair grow out, tattoos have to be covered, business clothing will have to be acquired, and the boozy meet-ups will have to change into something more closely resembling sobriety and planning. This change is necessary for any interaction with courts, the media, etc., in order to use camouflage to gain one’s ends.

For a working paradigm, look at Al-Qaeda in each country where it operates. There is an overarching endgame always in mind — the Caliphate — and a willingness to sacrifice to reach it. Small autonomous or semi-autonomous groups do their destructive deeds whilst keeping in mind the larger aim.

For the EDL it is the survival of England qua England that is the goal. This is NOT the UKDL after all, nor is it the Jewish or the GLBT DL. Those kinds of factions have their place, but that position is not within the specifically English nature of the EDL. The eventual triumph of English cultural values will remain paramount for they are the unifying element in the English DNA.

This newly forged EDL needs to continue to work toward fresh iterations of that original goal, simply because members wholeheartedly believe England to be worth fighting for. Thus, the outing of the pedophiles was a great success, and that work can be built on. There are many other injustices for which the formidable energy of the EDL is needed. A determined group can force the larger divided culture to face England’s problems and push back in spite of the mealy-mouthed jornolists and the deliberate cover-up by the authorities charged with preventing such atrocities.
England remains the exceptional European country — notice that attempts to transplant the EDL’s patriotic fire and glory to the Netherlands, to Scandinavia, et al failed miserably because the governments squashed those efforts. It may be that Tommy and Kev’s immediate removal will appear to be a successful government intervention for the EDL, too.

The temptations and tribulations will be many. You know them as well as anyone: the sneering upper classes who are afraid of the EDL’s power, the corruption of the government, the divide-and-conquer tactics of the power-hungry, the attention whores, etcetera. But most dangerous of all is what the government media will repeat endlessly via their paid infiltrators: that Tommy and Kev “betrayed” the EDL.

The ability to repeat that message on Gates of Vienna is almost at its sell-by date. By, let’s say the end of the work week, anyone coming here to complain about the perfidy of these two leaders will not get a hearing. We will not cooperate in the British government’s attack plan.

Tommy has been attacked before, and he will be again. I have no doubt that he and Kevin understand exquisitely the demonization with which they have been attacked. They would not have left had they had a choice. I pray none of the rest of us ever has to face what they do.

We will wait to see what the EDL can do in the meantime. These are perilous times for us all. God be with them.

15 thoughts on “The Problem with Gates of Vienna Is…

  1. Well said. Out of all the counter-jihad blogs, GOV has handled the departure of Tommy & Kevin from the EDL with the utmost respect, and understanding, of the living hell those men have been put through. None of us can fully grasp the immense pressure that must have been put upon them by the Government, to leave EDL, and be humiliated by the likes of Quilliam. Unless we walk a mile in their shoes – we do not have the right to judge them harshly.

    Many have said that Tommy and Kevin have been bought. I do not believe that at all. I strongly suspect that the lives of their loved ones were threatened, more than they already have been. The British Government has a lengthy history of playing dirty, and won’t hesitate to harm anyone who goes off the beaten path like Tommy & Kevin did.

    Both you and the Baron should feel extremely proud of yourselves, on how you have handled the devastating news of Tommy’s and Kevin’s forced departure from the EDL. I for one am extremely grateful to both of you for your sensitive coverage of this story, which I’m confident is closer to the truth than anything else that has been posted in other locations on this matter.

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  3. One more thing I want to add – A few years ago in Ontario, a man was charged under Canada’s hate crime laws for distributing leaflets that warned of the dangers of Islam. He was forced to spend several months studying Islam, with an Imam at a local mosque. It was made very clear that if he showed any sign of disrespect towards the cleric or Islam, that he would face a very lengthy jail sentence. The cleric held all the power over the man’s future. Can any of you imagine how humiliating, and frustrating, that must have been? Think about being forced by your Government, to be subservient to an enemy of your beloved country. I strongly suspect that Tommy and Kevin were forced to study Islam @ Quilliam. No doubt similar conditions have been imposed upon them by the British Government, just like the man in Ontario.

    Tommy and Kevin have families to support – what would any of us do? Furthermore, the Government has the power to refuse welfare to Tommy’s & Kevin’s families – which would likely put them on the streets. Tommy has 3 young children. Again I ask, what would any of us do? It’s easy to sit behind our computers and pontificate on what they should have done – but I bet the majority of people who have called Tommy and Kevin traitors, would likely cave in a heartbeat if faced with the unbearable pressure that has been put on both of those men for years.

    Tommy and Kevin deserve our respect and gratitude, for what they have sacrificed all of these years. Most certainly, they warrant our understanding and compassion, during this horrible and humiliating time in their lives, thanks to the real traitors – who are lurking within the British Government.

      • It’s the only case I know about in Canada, where someone was forced to learn about Islam. But, I will not be surprised if it happens again in Canada, or in other locations in the West.

        Do you remember when American police officers were ordered to attend a mosque for religious services? When one of the officers refused, he lost his job. I think the officer took the case to court – but I don’t know what the final outcome was.

        I think we can expect to see more forced re-education programs throughout the entire West, as Islam gains increasing control of our politicians.

  4. You are being too kind here. I believe he still had a few cards to play.

    1. He could have just stepped down.
    Saying: “That’s all folks, I’m only human.” He could have done this a few months ago. Perhaps when he did that show with the rabid Muslim biatch and the English guy who wanted to give him anthrax poisoning. At that point if have said enoughs enough. That was a death threat from a plant broadcast live on TV. Bye y’all!

    Going over to Quilliam is betrayal. If its not betrayal it’s soul destroying. He can’t be trusted after this defection.

    • If you are talking to me – I don’t think that I’m being too kind. It’s well documented that the British Government favors Islam over it’s own citizens. Furthermore, the Government doesn’t hesitate to abuse British laws to crush opposition of Islam’s pending takeover, of what was once Great Britain. If anyone has been bought – it’s British politicians.

      If some of the Government’s dirty tricks and abuses are out in the open, what do you think is really going on behind closed doors? We don’t have a clue, as to what was said and done to Tommy and Kevin. As for just stepping down, or walking away from the press conference – I doubt very much that they would have been allowed to do that. It was very apparent watching Tommy and Kevin at the press conference, that they were extremely uncomfortable, and were there under pressure. They were prisoners of their Muslim masters @ Quilliam, and the British Government.

      Do not misunderstand me – I don’t think that Tommy and Kevin are Saints. That stunt Tommy pulled when he went to the US, using a friend’s passport, was down right stupid and irresponsible. He knew that he was under constant surveillance, but did it anyway. Aside from the fact that what he did was illegal, it also harmed EDL’s reputation. Also, what happened to the fraud charges against Tommy? Were they legitimate charges, or another effort on the part of the Government to discredit Tommy? Despite those issues – Tommy and Kevin still deserve compassion, understanding, and gratitude for putting their lives on the line for so long.

      Maybe we will know more 6 months down the road. The Ontario man that I mentioned previously, who was forced by the Government to study Islam, was not allowed to talk about his “rehabilitation” program until it was completed. Maybe that’s why Tommy can’t say anything now, and has asked people to be patient for 6 months.

      • There are some of us who have literally gone “to the wall” (here used to denote the place where the dissidents are subjected to a firing squad), and survived.

        Let me communicate the perspective of one such survivor. It complicates things. When you voluntarily dissent publicly to such a degree that the police take you and execute you, you naturally presume that your earthly role ends with the command to fire. When it does not, when you survive past that point, you are forced to reevaluate. Anyone may plead the hardships their friends and family will suffer, but a person who has already actually decided to put them through that once has to reconsider when the prospect of putting them through it an unknown number of additional times may mean.

        There is also an indefinable psychology behind surviving execution for dissent. I cannot claim to fully understand it, let alone explain it, but in some ways you end up more completely separated from the living and their concerns than would even have been the case in the final moments before execution, or in deciding to undertake the role of dissident against a tyrannical regime in the first place. You end up skeptical about the instinctive demands of bodily survival, and with that a great deal of the edifice of humanity comes crashing down as logically insupportable without the presumption that it is generally better to live than to die. What before you may have expressed in words you now believe with your nerves and gut, death is more acceptable than degraded life.

        And if you are at all morally aware, the fact that you cannot bring yourself to regard your own death as a noble sacrifice for the good of others brings you face to face with the reality that it would instead be a self-indulgence at the expense of others. I’m sure that not all of this applies to everyone who has gone through such an experience, but then I suppose that it is rare enough to have access to the intimate thoughts of even one person on the subject.

        Now, in the instance I am discussing, moral reasoning still dictates that doing “the right thing” even at the hazard of one’s own life is the correct action. But it is not backed by the same feeling of passion and self-sacrifice after you have been physically placed against a literal wall, heard the order for your execution, and felt the loss of your physical life to lethal force employed by the agents of the state. At least not if you survive, I make no guesses about what it is like for those who die as their executioners intended. I suppose I should also make no guesses about my capacity to explain something I admit I can’t even understand.

        It does not make cowardice acceptable. But it removes it from the sphere of serious moral consideration. Courage no longer seems like a virtue so much as medicine for an unfortunate physical affliction. If one has it when one needs it, then that is well, but for those who simply cannot remember having the affliction it is intended to remedy, it doesn’t seem like a big deal.

        And so I must decline all speculation about whether Tommy is acting from “base motives”. I think it likely that he knows better than most what he is doing, but that of itself tells me nothing. It seems that time will tell, or at least Tommy has hinted that it will. For now I suppose I have no option but to accept that.

  5. Perhaps they (Tommy and Kevin) are infiltrating this Quilliam (Quisling) organization. This keeps the media focused on them while the EDL restructures and continues the very important work of saving the nation. The media always focuses on the charismatic individual. In fact, I think that may have been going on all along…..the media and PTBs (Powers that Be) have focused a great deal of ink and energy on Tommy and Kevin but they can’t organize every detail of the Protests that have already taken place. There is already a team in place that takes care of the details. I believe that the movement will continue to grow as public awareness of the dangers of islam increases.
    Just wanted to say, also, that GoV, Vladtepes, and Small Dead Animals are my daily bread.

  6. Sometimes, I sincerely get discouraged by the lack of information about the rest of the world, here in the States. Also, our political struggles here preoccupy us to an inordinate degree.

    Nevertheless, I have an earned doctorate in philosophy from an Ivy League University, and until today, I didn’t even know that there was an EDL, much less the troubles it faces against the power of political correctness. As a teacher, I daily face the glares and hatred of people who know absolutely nothing about me, except that I am not a Muslim, but yet have power over them (of a sort).

    I will endeavor to stay abreast of the problems faced by the EDL. God knows, I wish something like that organization existed here.

    Thank you for your attention, and keep fighting. GOV is a blessing to us all.

  7. An open mind is the sharpest intellectual tool any of us can ever possess. We need to analyse facts in this manner to come to the most useful conclusions. Well done to Gates for being so open minded.

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