Between a Rock and a Hard Place

Early this morning I learned from a source close to Tommy Robinson that there is indeed more to his new situation than meets the eye.

Tommy said it broke his heart to leave the EDL. He wanted his longtime supporters to know that he is aware they are demoralized and angry. He apologized for leaving them in the lurch. It was not something he wanted to do, but something he knew he had to do.

Kevin agreed with Tommy’s views concerning the EDL, and realized that they had come to a crossroads together. He felt that they should make a joint decision about which way to turn.

The two men entered into their new association with the Quilliam Foundation of their own free will, with their eyes open. Tommy said:

“Give me six months. If you’re not satisfied with what you see, you can crucify me then.”

In the meantime, Quilliam is giving Tommy and Kevin intensive training in Islam, so that they will truly understand Islamic principles and teachings.

Tommy was at pains to emphasize that they are not being paid; their relationship with the Quilliam Foundation is a partnership.

*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *

The rest of this post is pure speculation on my part. All I know for certain is what I reported above.

I still believe that pressure was brought to bear on Tommy Robinson and Kevin Carroll. Why else would they make such a drastic move so suddenly, without any advance warning to their closest supporters? We’ve seen over and over again that the government and the media are willing to pull out all the stops in their attempt to demonize and intimidate Tommy and Kev. The pressure on the two must have become simply unbearable.

The decision to partner with Quilliam is not without its advantages. A cloud of dhimmitude seems to have descended upon the two Lutonian stalwarts, but it has a silver lining.

Look at it this way: the move to Quilliam has made Tommy and Kevin respectable. Tommy has an even higher media profile than before, and is booked up for interviews as far out as the eye can see. When he chooses to speak his mind, the microphone will be in front of his face and the cameras rolling.

The demonization will obviously continue — the BBC will not give up their whipping boy so easily — but the media will be obliged to mute the worst of it. After all, how can they malign someone who has the imprimatur of the Quilliam Foundation, an organization that enjoys their utmost approval? Especially now that Tommy is being trained in Islamic teachings, so that he will fully understand what he formerly abused…

I say: Give him the six months he asked for. Wait until he has fully absorbed his Islamic training. Then we’ll see what he has to say.

Previous posts about Tommy Robinson, Kevin Carroll, and the Quilliam Foundation:

2013   Oct   8   Tommy Robinson and Kevin Carroll Leave the EDL
        8   A Paradigm Shift in the British Counterjihad?
        9   Introducing W.H. “Abdullah” Quilliam
 

98 thoughts on “Between a Rock and a Hard Place

  1. Islamic teachings? They head in only one direction and that does not bode well for any of us. Still, I for one will simply just have to wait and see, despite the fact that this whole scenario becomes more and more an enigma buried in a conundrum and I can’t help feeling that it will not end well.

    • The Muslims are bound to describe Tom and Kevs’ next few months of intensive islamic reasearch as training. It implies submission.they are assuming a position of authority. Meanwhile, even people like me know that they are going to find ample proof that their initial opinion of that creed is well founded. The advocates of sharia and jihad will have to go through even more ridiculous contortion to refute their argument.
      Whatever, those with open minds will see what’s what.
      “Give me six months. If you’re not satisfied with what you see, you can crucify me then.”
      4 years of sacrifice is well wrth 6 months of credit.

  2. intensive training in Islam, so that they will truly understand Islamic principles and teachings.?

    Why they need all of that?
    If they are truly hold the skills to be in front, they what the training for?

  3. It would be hilarious if Robinson ‘reverted’ to Islam. Absolutely hilarious. I can see it coming…

    • He may be “decorating trees with false blossoms”. A stratagem for gaining enemy confidence while his side is in a weak position.

  4. In other words the dominant party requires head shrinking and re-education or? I thought that died with the defeat of Soviet Communism?

    • Soviet Communism wasn’t defeated. It killed itself off via a stunningly wrong centralized command economy. But that doesn’t mean Marxist socialism is defunct. Just look at the creaky European versions of socialism where everyone keeps their heads down and pretends they don’t see the headlights of the approaching train.

      Over here, Obama has tied us down on the tracks and keeps those footballs games on the big TV, real loud, hoping we won’t hear the very same train. Different schedule, but same stupid train…

      George Soros loooves his stripey engineer’s hat.

      • The US is actually much further gone. You’ve already rather stupidly elected a Muslim as president. Cities like Detroit, Birmingham, Baltimore, Oakland, St Louis have already been sacked. Chicago is a shooting gallery. The US military is used as a tool to assist in the extirpate of Christian minorities in the Middle East and it’s quite clear that the same military will do to France and Germany and the UK what it did to the Serbs.

        • Use the three-headed flail against Wahhabism:

          Oneness of Lordship
          Oneness of Worship
          Oneness of Names and Attributes

          The Wahhabi-TRINITY!!!

          The theological implications should be obvious…

      • Neo-Marxism is not only not defunct, it is in fuller swing than most people realize.

        The main reason why people do not recognize Neo-Marxism is because it does not advertize itself directly any more as Marxism, communism or socialism. The third wave of marxism is operating in full stealth mode.

        Just today an article on FrontPageMag was published explaining this, albeit from a more american perspective:

        > http://frontpagemag.com/2013/david-horowitz/the-threat-we-face-2/

        Quote:

        “There is a marked difference between the radicals of the Sixties and the radical movement Obama is part of. In the Sixties, as radicals we said what we thought and blurted out what we wanted. We wanted a revolution, and we wanted it now. It was actually very decent of us to warn others as to what we intended. But because we blurted out our goal, we didn’t get very far. Americans were onto us. Those who remained on the left when the Sixties were over, learned from their experience. They learned to lie.”

        • Horowitz is still a Marxist. His hostility to traditional societies that nurtured him is tangible still.

      • Unfortunately for us all, only the Soviet Union was defeated, not communism / Marxism. In particular the latter is very much alive, thanks in great deal to Soros and other sponsoring fools.

    • What do you think Commmunism actually was? It was a type of supremacism but not precisely the sort of supremacism you might expect. When neo-cons Trots got their teeth into the US the Russia’s were slowly and quickly abandoned for pastures greener.

    • Sensitivity training pure and simple, Islamic outfits in the west , often subsidized by the government , make awareness of all that is sacrosanct to the ideology their prime objective .
      One most be compliant and supine to Islam very public face or suffer the wrath of righteous indignation . Sharia compliancy is beyond any debate or criticism, that would be blasphemous.
      Islam’s very special public needs has to be etched into the west’s collective psyche by hook or by crook !

  5. I have given the transfer of the gents from the island some thoughts the last day.

    The counter jihad movement is stronger than these two and this whole EDL. We are stronger because we have the better idea’s on the free market of ideologies.

    So. Farewell boys. Have fun taking sharia lessons. We have superior things to do. Next!

    • Dutch Patriot: Tommy was braver than most everyone put together. He’s been jailed, assaulted, arrested, threatened. His family have been threatened and the media in the UK consistently lies.

      If you used your actual name maybe I’d take your high handed put down seriously. But you don’t. You hide in the shadows and sneer at a brave leader.

      Who knows why he has done this. But Tommy, I salute you.

  6. Will probably take 6 months to pick myself up from rolling on the floor laughing.

    Nothing more to see here folks, now move on.

    What will be interesting to see how the State police the next EDL demo, that could give the game away.

  7. “Wait until he has fully absorbed his Islamic training. Then we’ll see what he has to say.”
    It had bloody well better not be, “There is one God, Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet.”

  8. For the 80 years Britain and other western countries have been barking at the Soviet Union, China, … Saddam, Gaddaffi … etc. claiming their people did not have free of assembly, freedom of speech. Now Britain is worse than any other dictatorship that has appeared on the face of the earth. I’ll cut my penis if somebody proves me wrong.

    • Murad, please! I happen to know a few things about China, and I thank God that the USA has not reached that stage yet–and even hold out hope for a turnaround.

      From what I heard of Tommy Robinson’s treatment by the British powers-that-be, I agree that the whole affair was reprehensible. I weep for a Britain for which I long held an affectionate respect, albeit a foreigner’s respect. Maybe its unholy alliance of Islamicists and [epithet, not sure why the word was included] will completely unmake what was once a great collection of nations. But I pray it would turn around.

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  10. Why do we have to know about “Islam” while the Church of which I am a Bishop is sidelined? This “Islamisation” is deliberate- in other words “our” treasonous disgusting “elite” are deliberately, knowingly and wantonly turning this country and others over to this awful “faith”. Why? for God’s sake why?

    By any stretch of the “imagination” this is the greatest criminal act against Humanity in history……

    • I don’t know which country you hail from my Grace, but the English elite have been courting Islam for over a hundred years. What is now occurring over there is all part of the plan that the Brits have been so slowly waking up to.

      • The lies about islam in europe are not so old. In the 1970s, the TinTin comics did the story of Mahomet, replete with him leading an army of men with swords across the desert. By the 1990s such imagery was verboten. In the 1970s the white slave trade was joked about on TV as if it was a fantasy of neurotic Victorian women. I’ve talked to people who were children in later decades, and they’ve never even heard of the slave trade in jest.

        It’s not just the elite who have kept these things from people. It is virtually every profession who should have done something about it: journalists, writers, film-makers, academics, priests, teachers. And of course, the feminists and “anti-fascists”. You cannot find a group from the professional class who did not fail in this regard from the 1980s onwards.

        But all is not lost IMO. Within 5 years, the requisite knowledge will pervade society. It is going to be a question of how quietly muslims leave the country or leave islam.

        • You’re a whole lot more optimistic than I am…

          For me, Europe is doomed. With luck enough of the enlightenment has percolated into East Asia to provide some sort of haven for what was Western Civilization.

          Maybe Australia can escape for a while, although nowhere is truly a backwater anymore.

        • We have passed the point of no return where islam will leave the west, we are going to be doing the good old fashioned way, think Balkans on steroids, and it is sooner than you think.

    • Thank you. I’m so glad someone finally asked the question.
      What do our “elite” hope to gain? Are they so weak-minded — a scarey thought in itself – not to see what’s before all of our eyes? Do they hope to share power?
      When the communists helped the Ayatollah come back to Iran, did they really think he’d permit them to share power? Instead, they were arrested and many killed. The lessons of history are so important.
      The methods of Muslims never change.

  11. A few million pounds will buy most men ? Or are these fellows blackmailed by something? Or were they given a choice whether to stay alive or have the destiny of The van Gogh.

  12. I think that there is a lesson or two to be learnt here, we are up against some exceedingly unscrupulous people for who the ends justify the means. The whole of the CJ movement is a threat to those leading the enslavement movement, and we need to ask who is going to be the next target and look at what mutual support can be given.

    The enemy has got us outnumbered, out financed and are ruthless where we are not, they know that we have an ethical code which limits our responses, and this ethical code can be exploited.

    I am very much prepared to believe that TR has been ‘knobbled’ and is ‘kidnapped’ in plain sight. There are many ways in which this can be done to a family man.

    • Then it’s about time we chucked this ‘ethical code’ into the dustbin of history and started thinking about our survival instead – and then do something brutally pragmatic about it instead of moralising and moaning.

      The extinct have no say in any future, neither theirs, nor their descendants (for they will have none) and certainly not that of their exterminators.

      • Good point Seneca!

        We are in a state of war. Jihad is beeing waged upon us and there are traitors among us. By the millions! Ethical codes are the last thing on my mind.

        How bizar! England 1938. Some nazi’s behead a British soldier on British soil. Even warn us we all will be killed. Or maybe not but then we all have to become nazi’s!

        Right after that.
        Some of us join a nazi “think” tank and start reading and learn the grandioso idea behind “lebensraum” Both the students and the “think”tank sponsored by the British government. Just to keep the dialogue running 🙂

        Am i in the mad house or what?

      • No! As Tolkien said: “you cannot fight the Enemy with his own ring without becoming an enemy.”

        It plays into the hands of evil to use the methods of evil.

        And do not underestimate the power of ideas. The powers that be certainly know how lethal free speech is to them.

        Recently some Islamic leader said “Bibles are more dangerous than poison gas”.

        He was right. To his tyranny nothing is more dangerous than an alternative and more merciful view of life. Something that awakens hope and dignity in the minds of the downtrodden.

        Brutality on the other hand only feeds the beast. Look at Afghanistan – Iraq. Happy with the result of military intervention? Want more of the same?

        • And Bibles teach that Muslims will be eternally damned. Although I have my own reservations about the Bible, especially the Sermon on the Mount, I do believe Muslims will burn in hell for all ages…

          • Re read the beatitudes and the entire sermon.
            Practice reading it with slightly snarky or sarcastic intonations.

            You might enjoy the process. Jesus was a witty guy. He could have a good stand up comedian if he didn’t have an example to set.

            Try it you will surprise yourself. Read it out loud. 😉

        • Obviously you have never served in uniform, for if you had, you would know that of what you just spoke is complete utter nonsense. War is a constant of the human condition and it always has been, for the winners of wars waged, the spoils go to the victor, not the vanquished. You bring up Iraq and Afghanistan as a point of not waging war because gee golly it was bad, well I submit to you that it is us who lost these ventures because of our silly ROE and hearts an minds strategy, which were and continue to be disastrous and continues to feed our men into this lunacy of stupidity on steroids. You want to win? Simple, scorched earth has always won since the beginning of time, ask yourself this question? When talking about Carthage what is the main point? It is because the Romans put everyone to the sword or slavery and sowed the earth with salt, hence, Carthage will never rise again to attack you, so the same must be done to the muslim world, for when the muslim fears you, he respects you.

          • As a military historian you got that spot on, someone should of course mention the Nestorians, they were utterly destroyed…

      • We have passed the point of no return where islam will leave the west, we are going to be doing the good old fashioned way, think Balkans on steroids, and it is sooner than you think. I completely agree with Seneca, there is no morality or ethics in war, for those that take the high moral ground in war, are always buried in it. If anyone here thinks that you can civilize war and make it less destructive, I have some swampland for sale. War is dirty, nasty, brutal business and there are only conquerors and conquered, it is that bloody simple.

  13. Too bad Robinson didn’t leave GB when the pressure got too great and come to the U.S. rather than become a dhimmi puppet. Probably the pay was better.

    The 6 months bit? Well in about 6 months he’ll be forgotten about and those that remember him won’t trust him.

    Nor do I like the way Spencer and Geller threw the EDL under the bus with unsubstantiated allegations. This is beyond the pale and very counterproductive to the whole anti-Jihad movement. It calls into question the integrity of Spencer and Geller and whether or not they should be allowed to be king makers and deal breakers in the anti-jihad movement.

    Personally, I think that Spencer is better off being the one the leading intellectuals and leave the political and organizing aspects to others as those skill sets rarely go hand in hand. By sticking his hands in political movements he is diminishing his own credibility.

    • “Too bad Robinson didn’t leave GB when the pressure got too great and come to the U.S. rather than become a dhimmi puppet. Probably the pay was better.”

      1. he’s banned from entering the US
      2. he wouldn’t cut and run
      3. why not give him the benefit of the doubt.

      • After some reflection on Martin Luther and Wittenberg, Calvin and Geneva, is it necessary for some part of the Counterjihad to be advantaged by territorial integrity? Certainly freedom of speech in the West is being subverted by the jihad. If territorial integrity is necessary, then where? Minimizing the influences from the Middle East would be a key consideration.

  14. They is a Sunni Front Group. Just as the Muslim Brotherhood are the Wahhabist Front Group. They only thing he’s going to learn is Alien Vs Predator while his own Country burns down in flames.

    The manner in which this happened was orchestrated to screw over the EDL. He’s made that pretty clear. I’ll give him 6 months to make a complete ass out of himself, but from what’s happened thus far- he’s already half way there.

  15. Good luck to Tommy and Kev – I’m sure that they will put the Islamic enlightenment that they receive to very good use in the future !

    Looking forward to next April 🙂

  16. “Why? for God’s sake why?”, Bishop? Because for too long you and yours have been ‘turning the other cheek’; instead of turning your ploughshares into swords you have been using them to plough fallow ground in the pointless hope that you could make it fertile. Man up, the lot of you, and look to how your predecessors dealt with the Demented Slaves of Allah, or we are all lost.

  17. Tommy Mate,

    You avoided the cross. You avoided Calvary by backing down.

    No-one but Cameron, Rifkind, Gove and Choudrey… Wanted to harm you. They were the ones ready with the nails and the inscription:

    “Tommy King of the English”

    You could have been a hero boy.

  18. When the facts don’t add up – something else behind the scene is going on.

    I wonder what the true story is. I’ll bet some sort of significant coercion is involved.

    What ever the cause – Islam’s pimple of hate will have to be dealt with – or it will blow.

  19. EDL have a march in Bradford, my home city this weekend. We can see how West Yorkshire Police handle a march by the ‘new’ EDL. Only good thing is that the police have lost their odious Chief Constable, the infamous Sir Norman Bettisson. He resigned rather than face questions about allegations in the Hillsborough Enquiry (an enquiry into the events at Hillsborough Stadium Sheffield in 1989 when 96 Liverpool football supporters were crushed to death). He was alleged while serving as a middle ranking South Yorkshire police officer at the time to have taken part in a conspiracy with other senior South Yorks officers to deflect attention from the incompetence of the policing of the stadium by instead defaming the dead and making out that the behaviour of the Liverpool supporters had caused the tragedy. Bettisson will not be missed by the public in West Yorks.

  20. I agree with you, Baron. Give the man the six months he’s asking for.

    Of course, TR already today has a deep knowledge and understanding of Islam. And he is much more intelligent than the people of the Quilliam Foundation (Btw, one of their favorite words is “Islamophobia”.).

    I took a look at EDL’s website. No hard feelings – on the contrary. I am not at all sure that EDL has been weakened by this. Everybody knows about the terror TR and KC have been exposed to, and the organisation has a very clear mission and four years of experiences.

  21. The EDL was fronted by Tommy & Kev, now we are all in the dark about the full SP of what’s going on here, though we can say that they are right now in cahoots with the very ideology and people that bring us to may hours of soul searching and angst and frustration.. aka Islam and its doctrines and its increasing encroachment on our lives, cultures, countries, cities & districts.

    The Islamic encroachment on the Western world continues, so does the battles for our cultures and countries and freedom’s. We need to move on, hopefully onwards and upwards. I sincerely wish the EDL can survive this, and that people keep up the good fight. The truth will come out in the wash one day as to why and how these events occurred, we should reserve judgment until then and sharpen our wits to the Marxian Muslim’s who seek our downfall.

    Chin up.

    • ” though we can say that they are right now in cahoots”

      There’s more than one way to skin a cat. As those cat-skinning folks say.

  22. Especially now that Tommy is being trained in Islamic teachings, so that he will fully understand what he formerly abused…

    I think this is important. Knowing the nuts and bolts of Islamic Sharia, the dhimmi system, the inherent racism and the violent tendencies doesn’t preclude him from, well, abusing it – or merely explaining it for what it is – in the future.

    The truth as such can be Islamophobic. It’s weird but true. Now, if someone with an intensive course from Quilliam speaks the truth on Islam, is that still Islamophobic?

  23. This “intensive training in Islam, so that they will truly understand Islamic principles and teaching” has disturbing implications. Who, exactly, will be doing the training? What are his/her(not likely) foundational beliefs? And what is the purpose of this? Why is it necessary to “train” Tommy and Kevin? It was not their actions that were the problem (at least not to any thinking person). What they demonstrated for was equal treatment and true freedoms for all, including the right of the indigenous Britons to preserve their culture.

    Tommy and Kevin often said that they had nothing against Muslims, but it was the ideology of Islam with which they took exception. The underlying theme of their protests was that Islam drove the actions of Muslims into paths that were unacceptable to native Britons. What actions? The burning of the Remembrance Day poppy, the pedophilia gangs, Sharia courts, the beheading of Lee Rigby, hateful chants and threats against British soldiers, demands for Islamic cultural/religious accommodations that led to the watering down of British culture, and so on. The EDL demos were in reaction to these actions, and also because the British government showed at virtually every turn that it favoured Muslim mores against the customs and traditions of native Britons.

    In what way will this “training” in Islam change Tommy and Kevin’s views on the above actions? It’s obvious that the aim is a readjustment in their thinking. Will their new insights into Islamic teachings mean that poppy-burning will now be OK; Lee Rigby’s murderers will be better understood; the erasing of British culture will now be acceptable? How will this new enlightenment change their views on the Muslim pedophilia gangs?

    This smacks of a totalitarian re-education camp.

    Tommy and Kevin have been extremely courageous. As the Baron has said, few of us are in any position to judge them. What will result after six months of Islamic indoctrination of the pair, we can only guess at.

  24. As I said earlier, Tommy couldn’t open his mouth on TV or radio without being attacked, Soviet-style. Now they can’t do that. They will have to listen to what he has to say.

    How nice would it be if he kept quoting Winston Churchill at them?

  25. Tommy and Kevin taking Islam lessons? Something is amiss here because both those stout hearted men knew exactly why they were leading the EDL!

    So what has occurred that would force – and I do believe they would be studying Islam under duress going on how they once so rigorously and publicly fought against it – them both to publicly humiliate themselves by taking up Islamic lessons?

    From an old copper’s point of view every crime has its motive and what is now happening to the ex-EDL leaders, is in my book at least, a crime, but a crime of far greater magnitude than a crime that any common criminal could commit, because what is being done to those two boys has the state behind it, which makes it more than a simple criminal act!

    It’s an act of Tyranny!

    So we now have two humiliated ex-leaders who have vowed to take up the study of Islam, and in my humble opinion, these so very public actions of resignation and taking up Islamic lessons are speaking louder than words. No one who takes up the fight against an ideology that threatens to overwhelm their country and turns that fight into a movement that eventually brings about a gathering of like minded people by the thousands, a movement that then alarms the elite who soon recognize that if is left to continue growing could jeopardize what is now being set in place, and then just abandons the leadership because all of a sudden everything is just too difficult?

    But if that is not bad enough, they then publicly announce they are taking up the study of their recognized enemy? So unless they have either been threatened with very serious consequences (and the Baron touched on this the other day), their families threatened with very serious consequences, or they have been simply bought off, what gives?

    I don’t believe the old adage about everyone having their price, but who knows with this pair? What should be obvious to most is that two ex-leaders of the EDL are now publicly humiliated, and I believe that Tommy’s outburst about giving him six months with his ‘Islamic studies’ is a one liner allowed to him by those who have compromised him, and by some method, that has two functions;

    1. It counters his previous public adulation as leader of the EDL.

    2. It gives him an escape from Islamic studies some time down the track.

    I’m not saying I have the answer as to what has gone down with Tommy and Kevin, but when one knows how the Soviets used to deal with their ‘dissidents’ then I believe I have shed a little more light on the manipulation of who were once, two stout hearted Englishmen.

    • 2. It gives him an escape from Islamic studies some time down the track.

      The idea that TR is planning to put himself in a situation where he will receive Islamic studies, reminds me of Saint Augustine’s Confessions. Saint Augustine’s boyhood friend Alypius, while in Rome (if I remember correctly) was encouraged by some friends to go to a gladiatorial event. Although it was against his better judgement–for he abhorred the spectacle–he assured himself that he would resist the spiritual degradation and the emotional involvement by covering his eyes and ears. Unfortunately, when the crowd rose in a fit of frenzy during a grisly scene, he was overcome by it. No longer able to contain himself, he joined in the madness, even enjoying it. If it is the case that TR intends to spend some time in Islamic studies with the intention of escaping it later, he may be putting himself in a similar situation as Alypius.

      • William, my intention was to show that by publicly stating six months? Why not nine months or twelve months? Tommy will have been largely forgotten in the public’s mind by the time the six months lapses and the only people who will be keeping an eye on him then will be those who have brought him down.

        Take another look at that snapshot of Tommy sitting between the two muzzies. Does he not only look uncomfortable but under duress as well?

  26. Tommy Robinson and Kevin Carroll are between a rock and a hard place. And so are the rest of us. I respect their courage and sacrifice. Internet is easy, but not enough of us rose up in the flesh to stand with them.

    Each of us will come to the same crossroads. I don’t see any silver lining.

  27. Tommy’s fate brings the following quotation to mind:
    “He that hath wife and children hath given hostages to fortune, for they are impediments to great enterprises, either of virtue or mischief.” – Francis Bacon

  28. TR certainly looks like he’s not too happy to be sat next to those two gloating Taqiyya merchant’s, il say again there has to be some form of coercion occurring here, unless one of those guys had a curry the night before and let off a silent but violent under Tommys’s nose?

  29. I’ll quote Fjordman on this particular occasion:

    “Are Islamic teachings inherently violent? Yes.
    Can Islam be reformed? No.
    Can Islam be reconciled with our way of life? No.
    Is there such as thing as a moderate Islam? No.
    Can we continue to allow Muslims to settle in our countries? No.”

    These few sentences contain all the information about Islam you will ever need. “

  30. Anne Zilensky, who walked with Simone de Beauvoir at the time (so her leftist credentials are without doubt) has now joined courageous anti-islamisation fighters in France who, of course are automatically called “extreeeeeeeme rrrrrright wing”. Her answer:

    “Firstly to ‘ally’ oneself is not to align oneself and secondly I have never asked myself WITH WHOM I ally myself, but WHY I ally myself”.

    For what he has done so far, Tommy Robinson will not only be in danger for the rest of his life, but he also deserves our (or at least MY) respect and admiration: cowardly keyboard warrior that I am, I would not reach his ankles as far as my courage goes, nor would many of those who now go into a premature stoning of the man.

    And even if this time his foray into enemy territory would be solely a question of survival (he has 3 little children and a young wife I understand), you – his would-be judges, go and step into his EDL-leadership shoes – or alternatively: look into your own soul, deeply! and have another look at the above photo. AND have a look at this photo:

    http://www.d-intl.com/wp-content/uploads/tommy-robinson-600×330.jpg

    *stepping down from my soapbox now*

  31. During his press conference, Tommy Robinson said something to the effect that he had to think about his wife and kids.

    This speaks volumes, knowhing how Muslims love to threaten their opponents’ families, and given the threats he has himself received.

  32. “Nor do I like the way Spencer and Geller threw the EDL under the bus with unsubstantiated allegations. This is beyond the pale and very counterproductive to the whole anti-Jihad movement. It calls into question the integrity of Spencer and Geller and whether or not they should be allowed to be king makers and deal breakers in the anti-jihad movement.”

    As if anyone could choose king makers and deal breakers here. Do we have delusions of choice perhaps?

    Whatever one may think of Geller and Spencer, they have put their lives and the lives of their families on the line. They receive continual death threats.

    I, for one, are very tired of reading the blanket condemnations of them from the armchair warriors who probably do no more than place their hands on a keyboard.

    • If you’re “tired” of hearing people criticise their behaviour towards others, that’s too bad. Maybe you ought to try dealing with the underlying issue here. Complaining about the symptoms won’t cure the actual illness.

      • Well of course. But you miss point.

        In my experience it’s the people who do the least to help or to fight who are frequently express the most vituperative criticism and are the most judgmental about others who really put themselves on the line and who really do try to fight Islamization.

    • Spencer is one thing. Geller is a whole other problem. She has said enough vitriolic things about the English that I consider her part and parcel of the entire problem.

      Spencer is a bright guy, but he’s reduced this all down to a
      Theological pseudo-ideological struggle. He’s brilliant in that narrow focus but the real problem is the demographic timebomb from the Pakistani and increasingly African-Muslim population. This isn’t a replay of proving Marx wrong a la the Cold War. The Religion these people bring is in their blood and guts and their wombs. Disputing what Jesus had to say about Gays or about salvation with a Koranic commentator isn’t going to fix the problem. These people will retribalize our culture, they will out breed us and finally they will kill off the remainder.

      • Spencer certainly has areas of focus but he also addresses the demographic weapon.

        Commentators who risk absolutely nothing have a tendency to condemn those who risk everything.

        Get it?

  33. If there are Dark Forces at work here the next logical step would be to proscribe the flailing decapitated corpse of the EDL.

    • I doubt that the EDL will be proscribed as the dark forces would hope that it will just fade away. I don’t think it will though, in which case we may very well see further moves taken against it.

      If the EDL continues to grow and prosper despite the loss of Tommy and Kevin the state will stoop to any lengths to try to discredit them. I would not be at all surprised to see mosques burned down or prominent Muslims murdered in order to pin the blame on the EDL. The state can guarantee that their tame media will just toe the approved line and make no attempt to unearth the truth.

      Independent websites like Gates of Vienna are vital for disseminating the truth and exposing the lies and obfuscation of the traditional media. In these troubled times they are our only reliable source of information.

  34. I think I have a closer ring-side seat in all of this than anyone else commenting on it, on any of the major blogs.

    Tommy has been under unbelievable pressure, not just from the state, the media and the police, but has also been involved in making 2 or 3 videos in the last 9 months. One of these videos has taken at least 7 of the last 9 months to complete. Only a few weeks ago, he did the last day of shooting that documentary, and I remember him talking about that same documentary back in June, and today when I looked I realised he’d been talking about that same documentary in February. I’ve seen 3 minutes from one of these documentaries, and I watched it 20 times, and each time the hair stood up on my neck (the whole thing can’t live up to those 3 minutes, so adjust your expectations).

    I also know that there have been Nazis lurking round EDL divisions and demos. I heard from some gay people that they got death threats from Nazis when they turned up on demos, and I was in the room when Tommy was told this. He was angry, frustrated and depressed that the Nazis were still cropping up and threatening people who Tommy was encouraging to show themselves (mind you, given half a chance, those homophobic Nazis turn up in the comments section of GoV and other sites). But the gays in EDL are not shrinking violets, and they deal with violent Nazis by themselves, knowing they can turn to their compatriots for support. Still, it must be awful to be Tommy and have his family get 100s of death threats from muslims with no police action, to have all the organs of the state on his back, to have the media systematically lie about him and EDL, and then to have Nazis turning up and trying to destroy everything he’s doing.

    I can’t say that I would have left EDL the way he did, but then I’m not 1% of the man he is, and would never have been in the situation where I would have to make the decisions he has had to make. Those of us who know him acknowledge he has an unbelievable tolerance for stress. Even those who don’t know him must recognise that he’s taken on a national struggle that none of the institutions of the entire country would take on.

    When this crisis broke a few days ago, I didn’t think EDL would survive (I only observe things from the periphery). But seeing how EDL have responded, I think they will survive. And I think the actions they are taking might be entirely productive. I’m pleased to see how professional they’ve been in their response (and that must really rile the traitorous media and “an-ti-fa”). And EDL’s tactical decisions give me confidence.

    I know that the Nazis can’t be more than 5% of EDL, and I know they are there because the state agencies place agents provocateurs even in organisations like the Green movement, so they are bound to be inside EDL And if EDL was any leftwing or muslim organisation, the media would not have concealed the organisation’s attempts to communicate its message: nazis and racists are not welcome. Instead, the media send the opposite message to nazis.

    I think we should all give Tommy the benefit of the doubt. I have no problem supporting EDL in what they are doing and supporting Tommy in what he is doing. Maybe with Tommy’s magnetism out of the way, EDL can sort out the problem with Nazis that just proved too much for him (on top of everything else he has taken on). As likable as Tommy is, maybe EDL should never have had “a face”, but should have maintained a clandestine nature. As things stand at the moment, EDL has split off into “a face” that will work with the establishment, and an anonymous-collective street movement that will continue to hold protests wherever it wants.

    The people who make up the backbone of EDL are almost entirely good people, and I’m proud to know them. They have jobs and families, and they are having to step into the breach, because a country that is £1 trillion in debt will fund any rag-tag bunch of jihadi economically-draining traitors, but will not protect its future, even when 40% of the population are saying that civil war is inevitable.

    It gives me great pleasure to see the loons from the BNP or their InterNational Socialist brethren claim that EDL is funded by zionists, mossad, martians, whatever. I know the EDL gets by on determination, donations and perspiration. In May I saw a retired man with a pacemaker lugging massive sound equipment across the centre of London, because the police decided to go back on their word and prohibit EDL driving the equipment to its destination. That man, and a few of his friends, made one of EDL’s most important demos ever happen. And no more than 30 people know who he is. And at the end of that demo, I got talking to a young bearded hippie (who I thought might be UAF). As we walked away from the demo, it turned out he was a student and a neo-nazi. I told him: “go on, say that louder, I want some of these thugs around you to hear, because they will kick the sh*t out of you”. He was shocked, and wanted to know why. So I gave this loon a rundown of why EDL hates Nazis and supports Israel. The idea that it is the skinhead, working-class thugs of EDL who are the Nazis, yet there I was talking to a media-misled, bearded, hippie, middle-class, Hitler-loving, Israel-hating Nazi.

    I have no doubt that Tommy would not have walked away from people like the man with the pacemaker unless he thought he had no other option than to do it this way. Now EDL have the opportunity to show to Tommy and to the nation that he was not essential. Succeeding with that is going to be the best result. Tommy has proved to be too significant. The reality might be that he was just filling that role because he could (if he was not there, EDL may have just never had a public face). Maybe without him there to fill that role, refusing to have someone in that role will be the best way to thwart the deceptions of those who made the EDL necessary.

    Sorry that this is buried all the way down here. It’s taken me some time to get my mind round what has gone on.

    • What [codswallop]. Where are the goose stepping, seig Heiling, nazis?

      Where the hell are they at these Demos?

      • It’s strange how the specter of National Socialism can cause people to jump in fear. For if one looks at the ideology – and the methods – of those people, it’s pure folly. As is the case with International Socialism, which unfortunately hasn’t been equally discredited.

      • Look, [redacted], if you want to see claims about EDL and Nazis just type it into google and decide for yourself which claims are true and which are false.

        Here’s the precise moment at the Birmingham demo where Tommy talks about Nazis. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8I1QpjSIbJ0#t=80 He names one of them. You can hear the crowd saying “get them out”. Tommy got a criminal conviction at a previous demo for assaulting a Nazi there. Here’s a link to a story where EDL hospitalised Nazis who turned up at meeting between EDL and muslims, back in 2009. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=538142666203507&set=a.174572482560529.40860.132236756794102&type=3&theater

        Here’s a link to the EDL website denouncing such people who are found now mostly at other “nationalist” or “anti-islam” events. http://www.englishdefenceleague.org/suspicions-raised-about-nationalist-demonstration-on-8th-october-and-neo-nazi-named-and-shamed/

        I can tell you what I’ve seen with my own eyes and ears. I can tell you the shame of some of those who have told me of their Nazi pasts.

        You can choose to belief what you like. [redacted].

        • What good has any of this done?

          Let’s break it down.

          Your leaders are hostages. Your government has sold off your capital, your government is replacing a population that has been steady and present for 12,000 years without significant alteration.

          What good has come from Tommy’s defection? He’s just been knocked out by a Pakistani.

        • Well said. Having watched the press conference I think we should give Tommy the benefit of the doubt and take him at his word. He reiterated over and over again his opposition to Islamist ideology. As for Quilliam their motives are more murky but they are hated by Islamists, regarded as traitors and stooges. Nawad is not stupid -he is angling for a political career and Quilliam know that unless the Islamists can be reined in things could get nasty for all Muslims. This could also be an attempt to weaken left wing kneejerk support for Islamist organisations. A successful cooperation between Quilliam and Robinson would egg up the faces of the likes of Hope not Hate.

    • That is an excellent reply Joe. I too believe the EDL will keep marching on without Tommy and Kevin. And it will now be that much harder for the elite to deal with thousands of members instead of just two.

    • Well said, Joe! Thank you. It’s good to hear from someone who knows as much as you do.

  35. Pingback: The EDL Will Survive | Gates of Vienna

  36. “the move to Quilliam has made Tommy and Kevin respectable”

    Or, in due time they may bring disrepute on Quilliam.

    All good … perhaps.

  37. Pingback: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Gates of Vienna | oogenhand

  38. Are they suggesting that Tommy and Kevin didnt know what they were talking about when they attacked Islamists? Why the education then? Well I guess it is good if they get more knowledge of how the crazy part of the muslim umma thinks…(not that it requires much education, they are quite obvious on what they (crazy muslims) want)

  39. Was he bought or was he intimidated? I don’t know. One thing I DO know is that he will regret it … if he’s not regretting it already.
    Doing a deal with the devil or his advocates is not a bright idea.

  40. “In the meantime, Quilliam is giving Tommy and Kevin intensive training in Islam, so that they will truly understand Islamic principles and teachings.”

    Correction: the whole raison d’etre and mission of Quilliam Foundation is to obscure and obfuscate Islamic principles and teachings: thus the intensive training which Tommy and Kevin’s will get during their time of “partnering” with Quilliam Foundation will be not in Islam, but rather in the Pseudo-Islam (the taqiyya and kitman) of the sly and mendacious Stealth Jihadists.

    Let us hope Gates of Vienna mean this by synecdoche when they referred to “Islam” and “truly… Islamic principles”. But I’m not so sure. And if they didn’t, it’s likely Tommy and Kevin also don’t see this and really believe in the viably relevant existence of the preposterous unicorn the Moderate Muslim (you know, all those decent Muslims Tommy has said he has no problem with).

    • And P.S.: By now, no one in the Counter-Jihad (much less luminaries like Tommy Robinson) should have any need for any training at all in Stealth Jihad and the False Moderate (much less “intensive” training). The principle that should be carved in stone guiding the Counter-Jihad is this:

      All Muslims lie to us whenever they express anything other than their murderous supremacist hatred of us.

      Beyond that fact, we can of course study the tactics of taqiyya and kitman in order to continue to expose them in order to try to wake up our fellow Western somnambulists. This pragmatic function of “training” presumes the viably numerous existence of Westerners currently not sufficiently on our side, but potentially capable of being roused from their pleasantly PC MC slumbers. I, unlike most of the (Gates of)Vienna Circle who seem rather set in their steely resolve of apocalyptic gloom and doom about the near future, have hope in that viably numerous existence of Westerners. And come to think of it, for those who are so gloomy and doomy, and the two sides are already apocalyptically arrayed awaiting the final trumpet call of a World War, it would seem rather pointless to undergo training in Islam — much less “intensive” training lasting six months.

      • “By now, no one in the Counter-Jihad (much less luminaries like Tommy Robinson) should have any need for any training at all in Stealth Jihad and the False Moderate (much less “intensive” training). ”

        This is truly pathetic. You all go on about how much you know about x and y. But none of you have the courage to actually go into a TV studio and debate those beliefs with a seasoned/hardened/trickster presenter. You don’t dare hold your absolutist positions condemning islam/muslims and risk your family’s life for those views.

        Tommy has contacted me in the past asking for middle-class, articulate, islamically-informed people to appear on TV interviews with him. I contacted the handful I know (these handful are at least 100x braver than all the anonymous commenters on these blogs, because they do at least go to protests, or go to argue with muslim preachers on street corners or un-televised conferences).

        NONE OF THEM WOULD APPEAR ON TV.

        So Tommy has to go into the Lion’s Den alone. He has to deal with the dirty tricks, the islamic nuances, the lies; to be the ignorant thug up against the suave expert (the suave expert whose killer associates might be lying in wait outside the studio).

        Meanwhile, cowards sit behind your keyboards pontificating about how he should know all he needs to know.

  41. Pingback: Tommy Robinson: tussen hamer en aambeeld | E.J. Bron

  42. What is needed now more than ever is clarity of thought. That cannot be achieved with these type of comments full of speculation. All of you are needed in quitely analyzing the Quilliam Foundation and their moves right now. And especially paying close attention to what will come out of Carrol and Robinson. Of even more importance is their whereabouts and who they will talk to in the coming months.

  43. Yes, I agree with Joe about people not wishing to debate with these islamic characters openly. You’ve got to realize that many of these thugs wouldn’t hesitate to murder you. And probably the authorities would deal with them more leniently, too. But as Joe hints, someone needs to do it. Have the courage of one’s convictions and confront these false prophets before it’s too late. Another problem is that most of us don’t know much about this false religion, other than about is salient or prominent parts. I mean, why waste your time studying a false religion? Another issue is employment. In today’s Britain, you could very well end up losing your job/livelihood. We live in precarious times.
    The best thing to aim at is to influence local ouncils NOT to give in to these people’s demands. E.g., “Can we have a new mosque?” “No, you can’t. Go to a church/chapel and get to know the one and only God!”

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