Concerning the departure of Tommy Robinson and Kevin Carroll from the EDL, a California reader named Cadavera Vero Innumero sent us the following email:
Confusion is reigning over at Jihad Watch and Atlas Shrugs! They erred in not including the “little” item regarding the Quilliam Foundation.
I posted at Atlas Shrugs, early. Unless I overlooked it, it got removed. Not for mentioning QF, maybe for giving kudos to Gates of Vienna for their sympathetic understanding of Robinson’s personal plight.
Have never been surprised about the, now, several years rift within the Counterjihad Movement. Think, at the time, I grasped the issues, but found it so unfortunate. Oh well, it just mirrored the human story. Like Paul and Silas (and even Peter) going about their different callings. Am sure the personal entered into it somewhere and how.
And you are most likely correct, in your remark about the British security services being involved, in various direct and subtle ways. The BNP could never have lasted this long without being propped up. The way to weaken an extremist element is to isolate and scatter (as they are now doing with the EDL). Scattered, isolated, they are toothless. The BNP serves other purposes than their own public agenda.
The great anxiety of the security services is the fear that the EDL would evolve into something other than street theater. Demonstrations are colorful but they are limited in their long term effectiveness. Their goals play out as quickly as the energy binding them dissipates. This is why, in spite of their telegenic colorfulness, the anti-war movement during the Vietnam era achieved little. That is why Rubin put out his (thieving) line about “walking through the institutions”; which is what happened. The Left in America now control the levers. The same can be said about the massive anti-nuclear demonstrations in Western Europe in Reagan’s time; they were coolly dissipated by Reagan’s hard-nosed and subtle planning to secure his own agenda. It is now time for the Counterjihad to do some walking — as your reports from Warsaw show.
I read Spencer with great profit. His book summarizing the research and thinking about the very existence of Muhammad revolutionized my thinking — and has even given me hope for the future. But, like yourself and certainly yours truly, the man is too human. He did harm by excluding the QF element in the EDL exit story.
Jihad watch has badly damaged their own credibility by avoiding the obvious. When stories came up about the British this and the British that … Geller’s hostile attitude to the ordinary Briton was palpable. I can provide quotes but that’s long winded. She has turned on a dime about the EDL membership. Brave lads to Neo-Nazi goons. This volte face speaks for itself. Half the comments at Atlas Shrugs are about how Europe deserves a terrible fate at the hand of the Muslim. This continent wide curse also speaks for itself. There is a clear chip on the shoulder with those sorts of comments.
Spencer is more complicated and his purpose is more sustained as he is representative of a Greek minority practically wiped out by Turks and their adopted religion. He knows what they did to Constantinople and Alexandria.
I think that the English and wider British and Irish hinterlands are made of sterner stuff than the Greeks though. our weather is piss poor at least and that’s to our advantage. The correction to the immivasion will be sudden and dramatic and I hope the rest of Europe doesn’t take the invader’s side.
What is the difference between Saddam Hussein and British elected zombies. Saddam’s goal was to stay in power until his death and then install one of his sons after him. The west called him a “dictator.” The west elect their rulers and call that “democracy”. But they (western rulers) import Muslims to invade their countries and destroy and uproot their culture, replace their native people with Muslims. I don’t want to call them Muslims savages. Muslims are clever people because they follow their manual guide (Koran). Muslims have an ideology of invasion, colonization, subjecting other non-muslims under their yoke. Humanity since eternity have done that. And if the invaded people are rational, not zombies, drunk, honorable, dignified, respectable, not gamblers or drunk with power, and have some kind of faith … they resist. Casualties are called martyrs because they sacrifice their lives for the preservation of others and their country and children.
It is too early to give martyrs. Britain hates that word if it is connected to Christianity, but loves it if Muslims mention it. Native Britons can’t even understand axioms. They can’t understand what the danger is. That’s why Muslims are so bold and assertive. They have the “democratic” GoV. on their side. How can you resist? Impossible. When a democracy hates its voters and the voters don’t know better and still go and vote . . . for their own enemies … disasters happen. Over the last 50 years democracy has been the bale of the white people and they still go practice it.
There are many guidance books for subverting a host.
The trouble with Islam is that it is parasitic.
As the Muslims currently exist in the UK some 50% are on the Dole. They are promoted, when they do work, with set asides in the civil service. If they run small businesses they cheat on taxes. They exist as a class of Efendi who are are at the apex of our political culture. When they double in number they will exclusively populate the civil service, the rest will be involved in smuggling flesh or drugs while cheating on benefits.
They are like ticks.
Barbarians were often maligned as uncouth by Romans, especially the Celts. However the Celts were vastly more humane than the Romans and better behaved politically. Modern archeology is uncovering a lot about our ancestors tat contradicts Caesar’s Apologia for his own genocidal wars in Gaul.
Savages don’t know any better. See the Sioux or Apache or the Ashante.
Unfortunately everything you say is correct. Britain, as I have observed over the last fifteen years, and as we already all know IS destined to become an Islamic nation (unless there is a massive popular uprising or civil war). I have no doubts about that. There are a number of well intended patriots out there, Law and Freedom Foundation being amongst most noticable in Britain, but even their efforts may be futile. Our ruling elite in Britain has always been extremely savvy at manipulating the demographic majority. Any threat to their self gain plans is well sidelined. What we have seen with the EDL just more of the same.
Our government (ruling elite) are the people allowing the Islamification of Britain. Our government are the people destroying any resistance to this Islamification. So yes we are definitely doomed. The remaining British people want to avoid conflict by just going along with our leaders plans, ignorant of what this will mean to our freedoms that have been bought over generations with tears, blood, pain and death. But then our ruling elite only ever live a life of freedom. They are now and will be in the forthcoming Islamic Britain exceptions to the rule of law, exceptions to what the democratic majority wants, and will never have their personal rights or freedoms affected. Whereas the majority will live under the yoke of shari’a and the hatred of muslim masters.
Tommy over at Hope Not Hate with his new friends.
Lennon conference so far..
They deserve each other.
I read book written by Ed Husain about his conversion from radical Islam (Hizb ut-Tahrir) to a sort of Sufi-style brand. I’m not sure where he stands on a lot of issues, like Israel.
I think it’s possible the UK government somehow engineered this, in a rising panic about losing the next election to UKIP.
Husain truly did change, but he is still very much a Muslim and I haven’t the faintest idea how many Muslims out there would go along with him. His book is worth reading, one way or the other, as it shows how these radical organizations work.
Quilliam believes in “Islamism”
http://www.quilliamfoundation.org/about/
Folks, if you been reading Gates of Vienna and other similar websites as I have been doing for ten years, you know there is no ISLAMISM. There is only Islam. Islamism is the concept that wicked, evil bozos have “hijacked” Islam. David Cameron believes this rubbish as does the US government virtually to a person.
Unless you can say what Islam is, you are missing the whole point. I mean did Himmler, Hitler and Heydrich “hijack” the nifty idea of Nazism and pervert it? Are you kidding me?
Islam is Islam is Islam. Little Johnny, “write that on the blackboard” 100 times.
They took nationalism that hitherto functioned reasonably well in Spain, Italy, Hungary, Finland, Poland etc etc and proceeded to give it a bad name by invading Poland, Holland, France, Norway, Denmark, Yugoslavia, Belgium, Czechland and Greece.
Give yourself a pat on the back for that “logic”. Hitler made use of the German conservative revolution and turned the right wing on its head to realise an ideology that was in truth a perversion of the European tradition (a tradition which is certainly not the American “conservatism” or “classical Liberalism” which so many of you espouse), just as Wahabism is a perversion of traditional Islam and the English nutcases who murdered King Charles, desecrated churches, pricked witches, and banned Christmas were followers of Calvin’s perversion of the traditional religion of Western Europe, which is Roman Catholicism.
Now I just read that Husain is not longer with Quilliam. Totally confused now.
“The Left in America now control the levers. ”
They only control the levers insofar as millions of non-Left throughout the West let them.
And those millions of non-Left let them because they cannot clearly distinguish between the PC MC they sincerely believe is good, and the Leftism that is a diseased deformation of that goodness.
But go ahead, carry on with your apocalyptically stark demonization of the problem.
An odd feature of American politics (and maybe not just American) is that voters identify as “conservative” much more that “liberal” or leftist, and in various polls both formal and casual they may tend to support policy positions that lean to the conservative and/or align with the Republican platform, but then say they favor Democrats! Obviously many people don’t pay much attention to politics, but they absorb the constant Democrats=good / Republicans-bad meme from the mass media and pop culture.
On some issues, e.g. gay marriage, public opinion does “evolve,” though not by some natural process as the “progressives” pretend, but as a result of their own constant demonization of all who disagree.
To my mind, it’s clear that the main thing that happened is that Tommy Robinson was pressured to submit to our PC MC Masters (distinct from, though involved with (and enabling), those Dastardly Leftists).
The pressure came from two places, I would reasonably suppose:
1) from influential individuals in the Counter-Jihad who are constantly afraid to step on the toes and eggshells of their (and, unfortunately, our) PC MC Masters, and so anxiously want to avoid doing anything that may displease them, including distancing themselves from mere unproven allegations of “racism” and “anti-semitism”
2) from clever Muslims (e.g., Quilliam Foundation) exploiting #1.
I think Tommy and his family was tired…of jail for Tommy and hiding for his family. I wish him all the best but I am staying with the EDL.
DA in South Carolina.
I wrote some years ago on this site that Tommy Robinson and the EDL would need to get politicized if they had any hope of getting their message across. You see, it is much more difficult for the state to undermine a registered political party than a loose confederacy of citizens. Demonstrations can only go so far in the publics mind and the EDL were systematically labelled the bad guys, even though irrefutable evidence was available to counter that accusation. The bad guy message was echoed loud and far by a very compliant MSM, particularly the BBC which never failed to label the EDL as being of the far right, whatever that means!
Tommy is tired of the abuse, the trumped up charges, the one sided reporting of the street demonstrations and the constant need to control ‘infiltrators’ into the EDL ranks who would, if given the chance, have turned a peaceful demo into a riot which would have spelled the end of any future demo’s.
It will be interesting to see if there is anyone within the EDL who will now rise to the challenge and take over from Tommy and Kevin.
I wish them well as they gave it their best shot, but the state didn’t play fair like the EDL did, and is far more devious than the average citizen realizes. This time the state won.
Let’s just wait and see how devious the citizenry, through necessity, will now become!
I agree with you with all that you observed. However, about your wait and see….
I fear the subjects simply cannot get as devious as those that rule them.
What may be dawning on many on our side, overriding their denial reflex, is what Orwell was disclosing by his O’Brien character. His dystopian all powerful state co-opts every possible opponent one way or another. Did Mr. Lennon endure some form of Room 101? I see some here are leaning that way.
But still, such inhumanity is so foreign to decent people that it takes quite a lot to accept the fact that their worst enemy (not the direct threat, but the enabling, craven, indirect ones) is that bad. It took the blitz raining down to bring real unity last time. This time it’s not bombs raining down, it’s bombs moving amongst them due to the efforts of that worst enemy.
Hello Pascal, I left a message over on your blog tonight that I hope you will enjoy.
I can certainly understand your apprehension as to the response that members of the EDL will continue with, as I have had many thoughts of my own. I visited their site this morning and was encouraged to see a rebuttal on their front page to those who believe that a major de-escalation of the EDL’s purpose in being has been achieved.
While there is no word from them on whom or who, may take up the challenge of leadership – and I think we can all agree that any organization must have a leader, or at least a figurehead – I have come away from their site thinking, and I do not know why – that they may consider taking up the challenge as a body, for example; The Tea Party, in which to continue the fight against the establishment.
And let’s face it, if there are no recognizable leaders that the establishment can intimidate as they did Tommy and Kevin, then all the establishment is left with then is the many thousands of members to deal with, which in all probability would frustrate those who function better when they have the ample resources available to pick on one or two individuals.
I just can’t see the state intimidating thousands of the citizenry without causing some kind of public and media backlash.
As a further inducement to my way of thinking, Al Quaeda operates in much the same way as the Tea Party which is causing us many difficulties in lopping the heads off the Al Quaeda hierarchy.
In the 21st Century the rules of warfare have changed, and we are now in a box seat to witness what will eventuate.
I have the impression that Kevin Carroll was a spy since day 1. Tommy Robinson is not a lost sheep, just a broken man. At this age he had a reflection whether to keep fighting for the system against the system or join the orgy. Joining the orgy is much more fun. He will realize that it was a bad deal for him, but there won’t be a way back. I know.
What the British Counter Jihad movement needs (along with similar movements in other nations) in terms of leadership are those individuals (preferably faceless in a decentralized manner) with nothing that can be used by the sell-out establishment (and their muslim thug-population) to retaliate against (such as family, kids or any other ties), similar to how the jihad terrorists adopt the attitude of having nothing to lose and abandoning all ties which governments with a policy of forcibly bribing/turning people they view as troublesome truly fear.
The counter-jihad should be willing to internalize the abominable Islamic saying “war is deceit” as well as the attitude of a people under siege and abandoned by a sell-out government with all that it implies, to the point where immediate counter-measures are employed when targeted by the establishment’s dogs and thug-population in the middle of the night (which is easier said then done).
For example, designated leaders that are elected to take over in the event that the current leader is either compromised or killed.
“The Left in America now control the levers. ”
Just keep on pretending that any of you would have sat on the right of the French National Assembly and fought for monarchy, aristocracy and church against the Satanic principles of the Enlightenment. The American “right” are all “left wing”.
Such utter rubbish is written here about the BNP being in the pay of the establishment that it beggars belief. I happen to be a member of the party and I KNOW what has been happening to our members and leadership. We get no money from the government and believe me, no support from the establishment. Unlike the Quillam Foundation who ARE government stooges. How come, if the EDL started out as a grass roots organisation then within a year it had a sophisticated website (better than ours) was selling in a highly organised fashion its wares in terms of clothing. Had excellent branding and such a highly organised structure in a lot of terms.
Where did all this dosh come from?
I wonder if its accountants were ever audited with the rigor that is applied to the BNP?
Or if they ever were at all?
There was always a smell about this organisation and it had no political ambitions, or so it said.
And now look at what it has done to the counter Jihad movement in the UK. It has splintered and destroyed it.
That was the intention all along.
I hope these two leaders enjoy their £80,000 salaries for advising on community cohesion.
Meanwhile we will continue apace and hope those duped by these two conmen are now ready to join a democratic party that does not resort to street protests that just promote incipient violence.
Agreed. It was appropriated at inception to infiltrate nationalistic politics in the UK. Islamic colonization suits Pamela et al. It’s what the Brits deserve as she says repeatedly on her Atlas Shrugs website.
“How come, if the EDL started out as a grass roots organisation then within a year it had a sophisticated website (better than ours) was selling in a highly organised fashion its wares in terms of clothing. Had excellent branding and such a highly organised structure in a lot of terms. ”
Unlike the BNP, EDL was not hog-tied by a bunch of rabid racist, homophobic prejudices. EDL drew support from all manner of places – and all of it volunteer. The vast majority of things that moved EDL along and appeared as if they required a lot of money, were volunteer efforts that came from below. The history of computing/software is littered with projects called “skunkworks”, where someone has no authority and no budget but beavers away on a project he finds interesting. The entire internet is powered on that basis.
Despite the media presentation, the Demos survey showed that EDL supporters were mostly hostile to BNP, and were mostly skilled workers or graduates. I find it laughable that you think the EDL website was so good. The current incarnation, which has been alive for about 4 months is decent. The rest were awful.
The BNP itself is not funded from MI5. But it is highly likely that the leadership are MI5. I first hear that claim years ago, from people who were active within the BNP. Once LibLabCon were all united on the European project, it serves their purpose to have a decaying political corpse which can be used to get nationalists, anti-europeans, anti-islamisation people all hog-tied to racism, holocaust denial, homophobia.
I would be almost certain they his family in the literal crosshairs. Life or death of your children and family? I don’t have to make that choice. God bless and keep him and the EDL.
I totally agree, Gordon. But I think (And hope!) that Mr. Robinson has been underestimated. Time will tell us.
According to my meaning, especially Britain, Sweden and Norway are heading towards civil war. The muslims won’t stop their invasions and their violence against the infidels – on the contrary, the violence will increase for every day that passes by. And that will gradually become obvious for the citizens regardless how much the traditional medias try to cover it up (The blogs are unstoppable, and more and more people will turn to them. And intelligent people can differ between propaganda and serious journalism based on knowledge and facts.).
I agree, but it won’t be civil war. It will be just another front in the Global Jihad, WWIII. Coming soon to every corner of the globe.
I don’t think there will be a civil war in any scandinavian country. In France, possibly. Here in Norway and in Sweden people are too indoctrinated and docile after decades of socialism. We have no tradition for rebellion, unlike the french. No, we are just too obedient to our rulers. A great tragedy will unfold as many european nations glide slowly into submission. Perhaps muslims and socialists will have to battle it out in the end? Or will socialists “deliver” us from Islam and expect total submission in return? Right now, it can go in any direction. Exciting times, indeed!
Robinson and Carroll could have left the EDL and not joined the Quilliam group. The fact that they did, puts the whole thing in a quite different light.
As many in the EDL say, “No Surrender”. It is a saying that originated in Londonderry in 1689. When those politicians in charge of the city were going to surrender it to the enemy, apprentice boys ran to and barred the gates. The seige lasted for many months until it was broken from the outside. The point is, it was the common folk who started the defence and saved the inhabitants from the depredations of the enemy. So it is today with the EDL.
EDL have stated that they are going to continue as a faceless organisation, run by committee.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=586676004732399&id=238696516197018
That is probably the worst outcome for the media and the government. The establishment told EDL in the early days that if they took off balaclavas and had a spokesman to whom the authorities and the media could speak, then their concerns would be listened to. That didn’t happen. Instead, the media turned on EDL and vilified them in a way that was unprecedented in the history of post-war British politics (even paedophile organisations and the IRA had outspoken champions among middle-class professionals/politicians). All those who became identified as EDL leaders became targets. Tommy managed to turn that round with charisma and determination, but he paid a huge price.
If EDL now proceed to do what they were doing before they had “a public face” then more power to them. No-one is going to receive bills for policing demos. They have got their networks of trust and communication established. They have Facebook and the website for issuing public statements.
We have to hope that Tommy et. al’s transition works out well for them too. If it turns out there are two national organisations who attract different crowds of people, then the message will be amplified. And I hope that EDL go from strength to strength. Whatever the extent of the problem with Nazi infiltrators, I hope they can solve the problem that was too much for Tommy.
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