Wow! An Open Thread…

Well, kind of open…call this thread the current mess in the US government. Or is it merely the appearance of a Colossal Fubar? Mr. Ellsberg is still extant and he thinks this is more serious than his papers were.

NOTA BENE: I’d link to him but I have so much trouble with this platform and links or videos that it’s not worth the hassle. So I will be giving you some suggestions, including the fact that Google (or the search engine of your choice) is helpful for ferreting out information.

We haven’t done much reading about the details of this massive blowout. Even as Mr. Snowden was sneaking out of his hotel in Hong Kong, we were just booting up. However, I did go over to Twitter to look at the trending page on #snowden. Whoo boy, people are hopping.

He’s going to China some say. And he’s a Chinese agent too. Others claim he’s holed up in Hong Kong. Still others say he’s going to Iceland. Or South America. Or Leavenworth.

Then there is his character: he’s a hero, he’s a bum, he’s a traitor, he’s a trickster. He and Glen Greenwald are trying to destroy the government. No, he’s trying to salvage what is left of us.

Whatever the Truth is, I doubt we’ll know it even should we stumble across it in the laundry room. However, there is a smaller, ironic truth on display here: our president, who specifically promised a transparent administration and no absolutely no advisors with lobbyist connections and a bunch of other pie-in-the-sky malarkey is caught in the biggest Tar Baby I have ever seen in all my born days.

All Bill Clinton had was Monica and her blue dress. But Obama wakes up each morning to the Scandal du Jour and finds another piece of his anatomy stuck fast. The press is torn by memories of their former adoration and their indignation that the Holy One has so betrayed them; it’s all grist for their angst mill. Meanwhile, regular folks are starting to weary of contemplating the sheer size of this snafu. Like those trillions in the budget being forced on us, the size of this mess isn’t really comprehensible. People are dazed, surfeited, numbed out by these seemingly Eternal Eruptions.

Meanwhile though, our President dare not move or he’ll be stuck even more, especially as the sun moves toward the heat of the Summer Solstice…that gummy asphalt gonna have him all tied up as the season moves on. Now that’s a political cartoon I’d love to see, but even the ‘right’ isn’t brave enough to take a very useful image of Uncle Remus’ Tar Baby to demonstrate the disastrous results of Mr.Obama’s Odious Officialdom.

On “Commentary” today Max Boot joined the “he ain’t no hero” camp, delineating the reasons why Snowden is trash. That was interesting, but not nearly as much as the commenters who took him to task with great ferocity. One fellow makes many of their points early on:

The deep state represents a very real threat to everything upon which the US was founded. The founders understood the necessity for checks and balances to limit the power of any single person or group of people. Now, it appears that technology has made it possible to circumvent those checks and balances in the name of safety and security.

It seems obvious that many in positions of power no longer respect the rule of law and do not hesitate to swear an oath to uphold truth then perpetuate lies. I do not trust anyone with power to do anything but act in the interest of perpetuating at power.

For this reason, Mr. Snowden is a hero. Despite the realization that his career would be over he made the decision to act based on his conscience. It appears that his disclosures were carefully made so as to not endanger the lives of others.

You criticize him for choosing to leave Hawaii, as if he should just tight and wait to be rolled up in a swat raid. Do you think Ben Franklin or Thomas Jefferson were any less patriots because they didn’t sit waiting to be arrested by the British? Besides this canard, there doesn’t appear to be anything of substance to your criticism of Mr. Snowdon. Equating him to Bradley Manning or the other traitors you mentioned is not a fair comparison.

The authorities can make the claim that they are only watching out for our safety. Based on the recent revelations of the behavior of our government I think any reasonable person should see the danger inherent in this rationale.

I’m a little disappointed because I’ve read your books and respected your opinions. The primary danger has been, and will always be, from the person with too much power.

So. What do you all think? Will this bury concerns about Benghazi? Will all the other peccadilloes – the IRS mess, the ObamaCare nightmare, Eric the Bolder, etc, ad nauseam, ad infinitum – will the sum of all this be pushed aside for Snowden’s revelations? You know that image of the frog being brought to such a slow boil he doesn’t realize his predicament until it’s too late? Well, what if it’s really a thousand pots with ten thousand frogs heating up?

Hard to get your mind around, isn’t it?

23 thoughts on “Wow! An Open Thread…

  1. My mind is conflicted about the Snowden leak. Im pretty skeptical about this Snowden character…..the first reason that tickled my Spidey senses, being that he would tend to trust a far Leftist President, and was a Ron Paulnut, which signify’s buying into a lot of Leftwing Anti-Americanism.

    Im happy to have Obama’s feet to the fire. Anything that hurts Obama’s ability to inflict more damage upon the citizens and nation, by undermining his credibility amongst the wider electorate is welcome…this being one more shoe to drop in the drip, drip, drip of scandals and government abuse of power by this Administration. Hopefully it helps the GOP take bake the Senate in 2014 and the White House in 2016. And am not to happy about the massive snooping (but we all knew that the NSA and others were doing this for decades now). The collusion of the big Tech Giants seems interesting…and am interested in that aspect, intensely.

    It needs to be drilled into the meme that this like the TSA groping at airports is the price we have come to pay for the privilege of importing Islam and it’s adherents into your nation states and polities. This is the new norm if Islam and it’s adherents are to stay within our borders.

    So yes I am struggling with it all.

    That this Snowden character leaked to the virulent Anti-American self hating Western Leftist Glenn Greenwald also immediately put up the hackles on the back of my neck, as well as the far-Left Guardian newspaper. Though there is some reason to understand this outside of an Anti-American narrative. The Guardian is pretty well known globally and Greenwald has a history of interest in this area for his own Anti American reasons, but would be guaranteed to run with the story.

    Then there is the Hong Kong aspect of it.

    I found mettacultures comments below the line at Harry’s Place to be of interest. And think others might find them useful as well.

    • Yeah, I don’t know what to think about this guy either.

      There’s a story that he not only sacrificed his high-pay, cushy job in Hawaii, and exposed himself to great personal risk in order to blow the whistle on Big Brother, but he also had to give up his beautiful girlfriend who is alternatively described as a ballerina, or a pole-dancer/stripper.

      Time will tell, I guess.

      • After reading some more reportage from WAPO, Im starting to warm up a bit to Snowden.

  2. As usual with stories such as this; and Bradley Manning, in my opinion; it is always the messenger who is attacked, probably to divert attention away from what they have disclosed.

  3. The real world networks of mosques compromise western security more than the NSA/CIA pulling stuff that has been surrendered to the binary aether.

    Treachery is part of the espionage scenery, they really should vet their people better.

  4. Huh?
    Clintoon and ONLY a blue dress?? Thasssall?
    Try the phoney travel office FEDERAL PROSECUTIONS of the innocent–then going downhill from there. The rot started there, with the Hot Springs bunch.
    Right now we need RICO prosecutions big time–start with the littler fish (they will be PERSONALLLY liable, BTW) and see how high we can go–from Chicago to DC. Ferget Federal–go with just plain criminal prosecution.
    The ballot box will no longer work. It’s too late for that.

    • That caught my eye too. Surely conservatives know that Monicagate was far from the worst Clinton scandal — don’t they? But maybe Dymphna’s point is that Monicagate is the only Clinton scandal that the dominant media bothered to publicize in any significant measure.

      • Yes, that was my point. They never covered the Clintons’ use of the IRS to intimidate its enemies. Or Hillary’s criminal grab of hundreds of federal employee personnel files she had no right to access. Who remembers the Travelgate scandal beyond those directly involved whose lives were ruined?

        It was obvious that Clinton suffered, among other things, from severe satyriasis. But the serial “non-consensual encounters” weren’t the crime under investigation. It was lying under oath. While the Senate refused to ratify the House’s impeachment, the Arkansas Bar took him seriously. IIRC, it was they who fined him 25,000.00 and disbarred him. For life? Not sure. “Dereliction

        Before Obama’s many scandals, Clinton’s mendacity shone like the sun. Remember all those sleazy last-minute pardons? Stripping the White House and Air Force One? Their minions vandalizing the West Wing as a special welcome to the new guys? I always thought Bush’s decision to ‘let it go’ was a mistake, but then he knew he’d be taking on the whole D.C. Press Corps.

  5. I just keep coming back to Benghazi. Will the truth ever be out?
    The relatives of the dead Americans will surely never rest until it is.
    I sincerely hope they get closure and justice.

  6. This is nothing new – anyone read Andy McNab’s novel Firewall, all those years ago?

    And anyone read Satan’s five “I will’s” – Satan wants to be like God but is not omnipotent. Programs like this get him closer though. And it will be used to accelerate the persecution of Christians, which is already ongoing within the Islamic world, where Satan really has a good solid grip of things.

  7. I think of Mr. Snowden as a hero. I did not know that every phone call, email and keystroke was being logged by the NSA in their ginormous building in the desert. I wondered what they were doing out there but didn’t know. Now I do and I strenuously object.
    I think this is very different than the case of Pvt. Manning who released State Dept memos. Mr. Snowden informed ordinary Americans that their gov’t was spying on them. I appreciate his courage while I hope Pvt. Manning gets life…

  8. Tommy is growing in stature as the icon for the man in the street. He may not be an intellectual but he is learning how to handle the media now.
    Combined with the trickle of excellent articles on the Liberty GB website, I hope that some kind of synergy develops that becomes a real political force.
    I was impressed by Tommy’s ability to control the demonstrators at the recent event in Sheffield, he won many hearts and minds there.

    • Who, of us, having suffered the death threats, trials and tribulations of Tommy Robinson, could come out as focused as he did? Well done Tommy, and thanks Baron and Dymphna for your thoughts on it. Who are these annoying people the BBC employs? They like to sound so smart but Tommy pricked her smarmitude with his truth balloon.

  9. “For this reason, Mr. Snowden is a hero.”

    There are no credible reasons whatsoever that make him a hero. Enemies of our nation can read, and now talking to him. His justification rhetoric stinks to high heaven and labeling himself a martyr is a rouse for compassion and support form those that hate what our government is doing.. Aiding enemies to effect dialog about change? An Obama wanna be? Maybe the real story will emerge. Probably not.

  10. Fox news had a debate on 06/10/2013 that took up most of the morning (PDT) with the question, “Snowden, hero or traitor?” Esteemed bloggers consider this, hero and traitor are characterizations that are only used in time of war. So the Fifth Estate has declared, along with AP, that war has been declared; apparently upon civil liberties that now include the sacrosanct freedom of the press against ‘prior restraint’ on the part of the government.
    We have had this argument before, with Mr. Nixon, who arguably was a front for some unsavory folks we are better off not being acquainted with. This time however, the powers that be feel sufficiently comfortable and confident that the issue is out in the open and the actions are more overt, Obama did promise to be more transparent.
    The problem for all of us is, we wrestle not with flesh and blood but with the rulers of darkness etc. Instead of a political economic system during the Cold War it is now a religion that seeks our demise and destruction. To all who read these posts, it is high time that we were on our knees beseeching the One Who alone can and does hold evil at bay and in check. Yes, this is indeed war. The battlefield has been moved. It is no longer with bullets, or ballots, but with beseeching that we contend against the evil that would devour us and all we hold dear.

  11. I just read Mettaculture’s comments on Harry’s Place; EscapeVelocity, thank you for the reference. Very interesting.

    Particularly his comment that the NSA and our intelligence establishment refuse to surveil and profile those who are likely to be terrorists although this could easily be done, but instead surveil and vacuum up information about massive numbers of ordinary, law-abiding citizens on grounds that some among them might some day pose a threat.

    Mettaculture makes the point that the “lone wolf” terrorist meme is false. Every apprehended terrorist has had contacts and colleagues and mentors on the internet or face-to-face–usually 10-25 of them (if I remember Mettaculture’s remarks correctly). These people could be profiled and tracked by our intelligence agencies.

    Mettaculture did not say this, but obviously this is not done because to do so would be to admit that there is problem in Islam such that Islamic communities produce numbers of these violent jihadis with great regularity. Therefore, they would have to surveil the Muslim communities including converts to Islam. They would have to profile.

    This is anathema to the multiculturalists including the Obama Administration.

    • Bingo.

      Just like the TSA frisking little white children and Swedish great great grandmothers at airports…they should be profiling instead.

      But alas…Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamists have advised the scrubbing of mention of Islam and Muslims and mosques from US security and intelligence counter terrorism training, which has been followed. Instead they mention Catholic and Evangelical Christian “extremists”, ex-US military personnel, and far Right anti-government Tea Party libertarians.

  12. Glenn Greenwald is pissed off because he s unable to marry his 24 yr old boyfriend in the USA, or bring his ‘partner’ to the USA for family unification or something.

    • Thanks for the personal background. It is essential to know the motivations of anyone who seeks to influence others’ thinking and behavior.

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