18 thoughts on “The Armenian Genocide

  1. Very interesting. Where I grew up there was a small Armenian and Turkish contingent. Everything was normally peaceful until the alcohol got flowing and then there would be the inevitable “You f*****g Turk!” followed by a fight. We quickly learned who should and shouldnt be in the same room with each other. And these were some seriously assimilated young guys. Granted, they were Christian.

  2. To gain a first-hand experience of the context surrounding this little hearalded but seminal event, read Franz Werfel’s “The Forty Days of Musa Dagh“.

    It records the prelude of this little-known and oft disremembered crime against humanity. It is even rumored that Adolph Hitler took inspiration from this ghastly event when he plotted the Final Solution. He is quoted as saying, “After all, who remembers the Armenians?” (Another version is “Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?” Hitler – 1939)

    I have laid flowers and lit a candle at Tsitsernakaberd (Fortress of Small Swallows). This sombre genocide memorial overlooks Armenia’s capital, Yerevan. To speak with its citizens, it is as if the genocide happened yesterday. The wound is raw and unhealed. As one of the oldest Christian nations on earth, a hatred of all things Muslim is sown deep into the national psyche.

    A short documentary about this event cast in modern perspective is, “The Betrayed“. It details the sordid caving of America’s Presidents in the face of Turkish threats to eject our armed forces from strategic bases in their country.

    When push came to shove, in the second Iraq war, Turkey betrayed America at the last minute and disallowed the movement of troops and materiel across its borders so that a separate and vital northern front could be oppened in Gulf War II.

    It is quite possible that these Northern troops may have been able to intercept convoys of tractor trailers carrying Saddam’s inventory of WMDs into Syria.

    It is even more certain that not having this vital half of a larger pincer strategy cost the lives of an even greater number of American troops. This is our reward from Turkey, typical Muslim perfidy.

    Even more disturbing was the massive effort in 2007 by America’s Democratic party to push for recognition of the Armenian Genocide during the height of the Iraqi conflict. This was nothing but a naked attempt to hamstring America’s armed forces and thereby bring about our defeat in Iraq. It was treason writ large.

    The resolution is supported by 191 House members, the most sponsors it has had in 20 years, according to the Armenian National Committee of America. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) backs it, as do more than a quarter of his colleagues. California’s two Democratic senators, Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer, are among them. [emphasis added]

    For a much deeper examination of this historical record, view Elia Kazan’s “America, America“. Thank you to Gates of Vienna for previously posting about this film.

  3. Now why does it not surprise me that Armenian priests were subject to great torture then ordinary Armenians, who were just left to die.

  4. While modern Turkey does not recognize the events in 1915-1916 as a genocide, there are Turkish zealots who say that there was a genocide but it was the other way around. They claim the Armenians murdered millions of Turks and Kurds.

    Some of you might remember, how pro-Turkish roboposters polluted Usenet newsgroups with such absurd claims in the early 90’s.

    In the above documentary, you can briefly see a sign containing the text: “Armenians-Greeks killed 3 million Turks” (at 52:33). It is as if denying is not enough but you have to twist the truth even further to make your case more compelling. Imagine if anybody today were to accuse the Jews of murdering six million Germans and claim that the holocaust never took place.

  5. Related to the previous post. See the following Wikipedia article if you want to know more of the events in the early 90’s and how the “roboposters” posted hundreds of articles claiming that Armenians murdered millions of Turks and Kurds.

    Serdar Argic

    The original version of the “roboposter” was called Hasan B. Mutlu.

  6. This PBS program goes to great lengths to present the genocide of the Armenians from a ‘balanced’ perspective and manages to insult deeply.

    While Turk (pre-genocidal)concerns are depicted as documented, the concerns of the Armenians are presented as ‘perceived’ as in the following:.

    @ 26:00
    ” In the years before WWI, Armenians responded to what they considered to be excessive taxes and oppression with violence against Turks and Kurds”

    . . .without offering the slightest hints to illustrate the degree of hardship these ‘taxes’ imposed on the Armenians prior the genocides. No one likes to pay taxes, but the ‘dhimmi’ tax system is intentionally punitive and humiliating. PBS did not connect the Armenians ‘percieved’ ‘oppression’ with the many young Armenian females stolen and placed into harems , some “as young as 6, 7 , 8 year old (27:49) For those unfamiliiar with the term “dhimmi”, google the author “Bat Ye’or” and explore several books about the topic of dhimmitude.
    Dhimmi’s were excluded from public office because infidels were never to exert authority over a Muslim (Qur’an 3:27, 113; 5:56, as well as hadiths). Dhimmis paid higher commercial and travel taxes in addition to the kharaj & jizya tax. Large sums were extorted from the dhimmi communities at the ruler’s pleasure. If these burdens were not met, women and children were reduced to slavery. “As late as the eighteenth century, Church leaders and notables in the Ottoman Empire were imprisoned and tortured until a ransom was paid for them.” “The necessity of having to pay for their security and survival became the norm for the dhimmi communities.” This ‘norm’ was pre-genocide as well. “Every legal case involving a Muslim and a dhimmi was judged according to Koranic law. Although the very idea of justice implies an equality between parties, a dhimmi was not allowed to give evidence against a Muslim.” “In order to defend himself, the dhimmi was obliged to purchase Muslim witnesses at great expense.” “The refusal of the Muslim religious courts to accept the testimony of the dhimmi was based on hadiths which manintain that the infidels were of a perverse and mendacious character because they deliberately persisted in denying the superiority of Islam.” “For the same reason, a Muslim was never to be put to death on account of an infidel.” Construction, upgrade or repair of synagogues, churches and convents was forbidden by law. “Dhimmi places of worship were not considered inviolable. They could be ransacked, burned, or demolished as acts of reprisal against the community, on the pretext that some of their members had exceeded their rights. The ringing of bells, the sounding of the ram’s horn and the public exhibition of crosses, icons, banner, and other religious objects were all prohibited.” “Manifestations of non-Muslim worship offended the Muslims.”
    It’s not a matter of perception, but a matter of thorough honest and in-depth presentation lacking with this PBS’ program.

  7. There is every reason to believe that the Germans took inspiration directly from the Armenian genocide. Turkey and Germany were allied during WWI, and the Germans were kept fully informed about the proceedings towards a ‘final solution’ of the ‘Armenian problem.’ The Hitler quote mentioned above is generally recognized as real, only the particular wording is disputed.

    That said, he draw inspiration from other sources as well.

    That, in turn, made it possible for the Turkish author Taner Akçam to use German archive material for his outstanding documentary book A Shameful Act. This book casts shame on any politician (like the Danish minister of foreign affairs Per Stig Møller) who claims the matter is still to be resolved by historians. It has been.

    One should remember, though, that it’s not only about the Armenians. Assyrians suffered the same fate.

  8. While I believe your claims YRWN, I also think PBS did a pretty good job on this documentary. Did you really expect them to emphasize the inequality of Moslem vs. Christian any more than they did?
    In this case, I think the world is pretty clear about the genocide of the Christian Armenians by the Turk Moslems. It is just a step too far to point out that the “Turks” were Muslim any more forcefully than this documentary did and drove Christians from their lands. This has been the Muslim stock in trade for many many decades.
    Of course, it continues to this day. Not in such a grotesque fashion but, it has been made pretty clear that Muslims do not allow non-Muslims to live in their realm in peace.

  9. babs: Of course, it continues to this day. Not in such a grotesque fashion but, it has been made pretty clear that Muslims do not allow non-Muslims to live in their realm in peace.

    While your meaning is clear, I’d still say that bomb vest murders rate pretty high on the scale of “grotesque”. All that prevents Muslim majority nations from continuing their campaigns of genocide is an almost crippling ineptitude and incompetence with respect to all matters military. Thank goodness for that.

    Remember, “inshallah” makes a really crappy airframe maintenance policy, just as it represents a piss-poor battlefield strategy. Generation after generation of graduate classes that all read from one single textbook are going to make especially lousy soldiers.

    This is even more the case when a vast majority of generals and officers have been appointed because of their family connections and not due to any proven war-fighting ability.

    All of this is just a small part of Why Arabs Lose Wars. Bearing this in mind, is it any wonder that Muslim leaders have wet dreams about acquiring nuclear weapons? Only by possessing Weapons of Mass Destruction do Muslims have even a remote chance of imposing their military will. Otherwise, they present about as much of a problem to Western forces as shooting fish in a barrel.

    Recall that Iran and Iraq fought for eight long years, using chemical weapons and killing almost a millions Muslims, only to reach a bloody stalemate.

    American came in and rolled up Iraq’s sidewalks in three short weeks. Too bad that Bush didn’t have the ostiones to openly remind the rest of Islam that we had its collective ass in a sling and all we had to do was chose the time and place.

  10. I agree with you Zen and I have also read Why Arabs Lose Wars. In fact, I sent a copy of it to my son when he was in the Naval Academy several years ago.
    I wanted to make the point that PBS is a gov’t funded operation and one cannot expect it to be fully forceful (I guess that is what I want to say) on an issue that involves world politics.
    They always seem to hedge their bets. On this particular issue I think they were pretty clear about the Armenian genocide. Not so clear about the Muslim vs Christian purpose although I think they did a good job at the start of the film to explain that.
    I’d like to give credit where it is due. It is fairly infrequent that I give credit to PBS.

  11. Slowly the false dream of becoming a part of Europe is fading at las and a more realistic and real “Turkish” identity is being formed.

    I believe this is better for all parties.

    BTW, did you read From Empire to Republic? I’m not through yet, but it sure is fascinating. As well as embarrassing for several parties…

  12. Thank you, Baron, for posting this video on the Armenian Genocide. My father and his mother survived it, but his father didn’t, a man I only know from what my father told me about him and his picture. My father had brothers and sisters that he never talked about; I was only able to trick him into admitting that they existed at all and died in the march into the Syrian desert. I always remember what my father said: “Do not trust a Muslim, they don’t think like us”. He was right.

    Islam is the core of the problem, and anyone that self identifies as a Muslim must not be trusted. I see that Muslims and those that run interference for Islam comment on Gates of Vienna. It is pointless to argue with such people. We need to direct our energies toward educating those in the West on the dangers of Islam before they go under into a dhimmi mentality.

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