Where Does It Stop?

Sagunto is a regular reader and commenter from the Netherlands. Below is his translation of a recent Dutch newspaper article, followed by his commentary. The story concerns the harassment of little children during their annual St. Martin lantern parades.

First a prefatory note from Sagunto:

From the future front of the battle against Islam, the old Dutch neighbourhoods, here’s my translation of a small article from the November 7th edition of De Telegraaf, entitled “Wanneer houdt het op?” (i.e. enough is enough, when/where will it stop?)

Sint Maarten kindjesSome background: the lantern parades described in the article are based on the feast of St. Martin of Tours (we all know why Tours is an important historical place;-) celebrated by children who go door to door with self-made lanterns, singing all kinds of songs about St. Martin, in order to get candy. Halloween is sort of related to it (and is also celebrated, like a novelty, same with Santa Claus, who better not show his face before Sinterklaas has left and returned to Spain).

The translation of the article from De Telegraaf:

Even little children are no longer safe from thugs


The Hague — On Wednesday evening, a group of Moroccan youths completely ruined an already heavily guarded lantern parade in the Transvaal neighbourhood of The Hague. Little children were bombarded with eggs when they followed a marching band with their multi-coloured lanterns. A woman, watching the parade with her dog, was harassed while the youths tried to kick her dog. Police officers who tried to intervene were met with a barrage of projectiles. Only one of the youths (15 years old) could be apprehended after a wild chase.

Pat on the head

The organizing committee Haagse Hopjes [a traditional local sweet — translator] is more than fed up with the continuing harassment and hopes that at last something will be done against it. ‘They get away with it while the local authorities only give them an occasional slap on the wrist and a pat on their heads. But they should all be rounded up and be put away, together with their parents, in some correctional facility,’ according to a defiant staff member Joke van den Boomen.

According to eyewitnesses, the group of at least twenty Moroccan youths almost immediately started their intimidation as the children gathered for their procession. They tried to storm the small community centre where the little ones were getting a hot cup of cocoa. Van de Boomen: ‘It already is a bloody shame that we are forced to ask dozens of policemen, guards and others to assist at a lantern parade. They were barely able to restrain most of those boys. But then outside they went crazy anyway.’

– – – – – – – –


The Haagse Hopjes-foundation has warned before that all events for the local kids, like the festive arrival of Sinterklaas, would come to a halt. ‘But we won’t let them steal this from our little ones. We will not be chased away either. My only fear is that we’ll run out of volunteers pretty soon.’

And some commentary by Sagunto:

This obviously is just one little brick in a structure of so many “incidents” that attests to the colourful contribution of Muslim youths, mainly of Moroccan origin, to Dutch society and its remaining traditions. Little and insignificant as this report may be, in many ways it already points towards the most likely scenario for the inevitable clash in the future, which will be a folk rebellion against Islam and everything associated with it.

Below this news item, one could read the many angry and furious comments from Dutch parents. Here’s an impression:

“As a law abiding citizen one can hope for years on end that the government will put a stop to certain atrocities, but it seems one can wait till hell freezes over. So, people, if the government doesn’t protect us, we should take justice into our own hands to protect our children and grandchildren. Those who won’t listen will have to feel [the consequences] someday.”

“Hang ‘em! …parents and all!”

“Go on Moroccan scum, the more hate you’ll reap pretty soon!”

“..form a nation-wide gang of strong-arm boys and teach them and their parents a lesson for them to remember upon their return to their land of origin..”

“put a.50 on it. Problem solved..”

“..looking forward to the upcoming feast of Sinterklaas. Bring it on, and I’ll bring a big butcher’s knife and anyone who lays a finger on my kids better think twice!”

The count stopped at around 1000 comments within a few hours…

In the same article, the only surviving and truly national Saint, i.e. “Sinterklaas” (Saint Nicholas of Myra) is mentioned. This is also a deeply rooted part of Dutch tradition and folklore and a feast for every child, to be celebrated on the 5th (6th) of December. This tradition also has been a target for Muslim youths in many Dutch cities, who harass and threaten the old Bishop and his servants (“Zwarte Pieten”, i.e. “Black Peters”, black from charcoal that is) when they go door to door, visiting Dutch families as part of the ritual.

As I mentioned before, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if something “small”, like one of these two cherished traditions, especially when children are targeted directly or indirectly, will prove to be the final straw and the trigger for a vast Dutch uprising against Islam.

As always,
Kind regards from Amsterdam,

36 thoughts on “Where Does It Stop?

  1. My only fear is that we’ll run out of volunteers pretty soon.

    Isn’t this what the military is for?

    Let’s see these “yoots” egg a few dozen soldiers.

  2. If they want to do something REALLY useful, they might try firing their Moroccan immigrant labor,(if that’s possible in the Netherlands), while reforming (deconstructing), their welfare state for non-citizens.

    Then the Dutch, in their polite, but blunt Dutch way, could highlight the opportunities available to Moroccans in OTHER lands…especially Morocco.

    Or France.

  3. If there were plentiful opportunities in Morocco (standing in here for immigrant-sending countries generally), there probably would not have been so much immigration to the Netherlands (and other European countries) in the first place. Perhaps the answer is not dismantling the Dutch ‘welfare state for non-citizens’ but better efforts to assimilate immigrants already present into Dutch society? Just a thought. I know it’s a very difficult/complex problem, but there must be other solutions than the ones on offer here.

  4. Crediting Moroccans with seeking legitimate opportunities to work in the Netherlands instead of generous Welfare benefits and leisure to hang around throwing rocks is a perhaps overly generous.

    Immigrants who seek work find it and their kids are busy in school trying to improve themselves. I say this as an erstwhile immigrant. Quality immigrants empty bedpans, dig ditches, whatever it takes to earn their own bread.

    Muslims in general do not evince this attitude. They have a giant sense of entitlement no matter how humble their original circumstances in some third world hell hole of their own making. They seldom express gratitude to their host country but busy themselves bogging down human rights machinery with frivolous complaints. They express no shame at the behavior of their out of control youth but justify them and accuse arresting police of racism.

    What possessed the Euro elites to pick Muslims instead of cultures with better work ethics like the Chinese is a mystery. Are they really that ignorant? Are they really that sadistic toward their fellow countrymen?

  5. Holland is hard to get information from. The Dutch policy of ‘non escalation’ means any information that may paint Islam in a poor light is highly restricted. I offer you this as evidence…

    I hope some readers here will be kind enough to watch any and all Christmas like activities in Holland and report any problems. Who picked Holland in the first Euro civil war pool by the way and how much to buy in?

  6. @Zenster,

    Sure thing those “chance-youths” as they were called by the Minister of Integration – who was recently fired by the way – wouldn’t dare to challenge the military. I don’t think however, that organizing a lantern parade for children is top-priority for our armed forces. It’s very unfortunate that a police presence is needed at all. But the furious reactions of many Dutch parents are encouraging, especially concerning the point of taking matters into our own hands. Every day, more and more ordinary people learn that the State apparatus is working against them, while favouring the (stealthy) spread of Islam, not only in Holland but all over Europe. My guess is therefore, that The Battle against Islam will not be the battle of a State versus this imperial doctrine, but that it will manifest itself as a local, popular uprising against both Islam and State institutions (e.g. police force). My point is, that some seemingly innocent little incident – especially when cherished traditions are involved – will be the most likely trigger to unleash the anger about Islam that has been building up in Dutch society over the years.
    When that moment arrives, I’d expect large portions of the army to rally behind the populace of the Netherlands. Then things will start to get really interesting.

    Kind regs from Amsterdam,

  7. [i]”If there were plentiful opportunities in Morocco (standing in here for immigrant-sending countries generally), there probably would not have been so much immigration to the Netherlands (and other European countries) in the first place. Perhaps the answer is not dismantling the Dutch ‘welfare state for non-citizens’ but better efforts to assimilate immigrants already present into Dutch society? Just a thought. I know it’s a very difficult/complex problem, but there must be other solutions than the ones on offer here.”[/i]

    Why should it be a requirement for the Dutch to integrate the foreigners? Why is it [i]our[/i] duty to make sure alien trash feels secure and welcome in our homelands?

    There’s really no reason why we have to or why we should. We feel weak and we feel like we “owe” it to the world.

    What do they immigrants offer besides cheap menial labour and endless cultural conflicts? Nothing.

    The welfare system is setup to protect and insure the lives of Dutch citizenry, not parasite who seem to be streaming in from all four corners of the planet.

  8. @Bilgeman,

    It’s impossible since most of the “youths” were born in Holland and hold dutch citizenship.
    More realistic solution would be to send them to juvenile correctional facilities, and fine their parents.

  9. @Vince,

    It is possible.
    These “chance-youths” hold the Moroccan citizenship as well, even when they’re born in the Netherlands. Would you believe it?
    The logical solution would be to revoke their Dutch passports.


  10. The alleged death of a student during demonstrations triggered the end of communism in 1989 in Czechoslovakia.

    Thus you have good chances to accelerate the process…

    Anyhow the comments were not blocked.
    A sign of change?

  11. I agree with you, czechmade. It will be a little thing that will finally be the tipping point. Holland has had a deep slide into being an unfettered society, legalizing everything from euthanasia to prostitution, and without a peep from the people. As for Morocco having employment opportunities, it would never happen. In fact, in Muslim countries with ’employment opportunities, almost no one really works, and there is no industry. There is no work ethic to speak of. It is beneath them to work, for the Koran says they are the best, the Ummah, and work is what Kuffar do. They import large amounts of kuffar to do the work they won’t do.

  12. I should qualify my statement about Holland being an unfettered society: It seems that things which were once illegal are now legalized…except for expressing your opinions. A cruel trade off, if you ask me.

  13. It appears more and more that the Dutch,Swedes and other Europeans are becoming and being treated much like the Jews in the early Nazi days. The only difference is the harassment and attacks are being perpetrated by foreigners in their OWN country. Astounding.

    I watched an early Paul Verhoven film the other day called “Soldiers of Orange” with a young Rutger Hauer about Dutch WW2 resistance fighters. I know it has been said a million times before but, what the Hell did all those brave souls fight and die for?

  14. It is because our kids are still sort of a religion. Also the basic ethic of protecting the weak and innocent.

    The kids qualify perfectly.

    One morning the Moroccans wake up in totally changed Holland. A point of no return (exept a journey to Morocco).

    It would be wise to boycott touristic destinations in Morocco europewide. Let them feel our pain.

  15. @czechmade, jewel atkins,

    Yes, something “small” will spark a people’s revolt against Islam and the political elites, the sharia-socialists and so on, so I agree with you both.

    And @jewel, don’t let my qualification of your statements about the Dutch way of “legalization” get in the way of that bigger picture. But just a quick remark on this quote of yours:
    “..legalizing everything from euthanasia to prostitution, and without a peep from the people.”

    This simply is wrong (can’t help it). On two accounts as a matter of fact:
    – The people, and their many different representatives in Parliament, have been peeping a lot over issues like euthanasia, prostitution, soft drugs and all other things that Holland is so (in)famous for abroad. And replace that “peeping a lot” with “fiercely debating”. And the debates still continue.
    – It’s not a matter of “legalizing” something that was illegal before. Some things weren’t illegal to begin with (soft drugs, prostitution), but somewhat inbetween legal/illegal, these matters where “gedoogd”, i.e. allowed or “tolerated” (remember what Thomas Aquinas said about tolerating things like prostitution if trying to ban it would lead to even worse consequences for society).
    Euthanasia is another matter. In the past it was a criminal offence, always punishable by Law. Today it still is a criminal offence, unless a doctor has followed a set of very strict rules he has to abide by. So nothing is simply “legalized” here. Every case is audited and if these rules are not obeyed, doctors and people who assisted him still are punishable by Law.


  16. The solution is simple, though painful: mob violence. Mothers and fathers, grandfathers and uncles beating the living daylights out of these immigrant thugs who think they can lord over your country and terrorize the children. While the parties and politicians debate, and grumble “deporable deplorable” go out and kick ass, boo, throw rocks. Islam knows no shame or reason.

    One thing is certain, the kiddies and the old and fondly re-enacted traditions mustn’t suffer. If the law is gone, if the law is somewhere else, it’s mom and pop time.

  17. “Islam knows no shame or reason.”
    What if someone had written “Christianity knows no shame or reason” or “Judaism knows no shame or reason”? All three of these statements are equivalent in their ignorance, bigotry, and stupidity.

  18. you’re right @ioshkafutz,
    mob violence it will be. At least when you take a quick look at all the comments that angered Dutch parents placed beneath the original article. We might want to redub it: civil disobedience 😉
    But one thing stands out: more than half of these outcries called for people “to take matters into their own hands” instead of waiting for the government or local “authorities” to think of a solution. So it’s gonna be mompop-time no doubt, but when and more important: how exactly?

    Here’s where traditional Dutch folklore proves to be both the catalyst as well as the practical solution. All those people who are fed up and want to act in defence of our traditions and children, are of course very peaceful and law-abiding citizens. And modest too. Way to modest to be openly participating in any angry mob.

    But take a look at this:
    angry mom & pop mob

    The perfect way for mum and dad to remain anonymous, while forming black platoons of vengeful parents!
    No one will notice anything out of the ordinary when these vigilantes march the streets in the period that Sinterklaas is in town (nov/dec). It is customary for both men and women to dress up as “Zwarte Piet” and walk around with a nasty weapon, known as the “roe” (bundle of birch branches).

    Every Piet(Pete)-platoon will be led by a so-called “adjutor”-Sinterklaas:
    Saintly platoonleaders

    It’s all a matter of how to organize these things in anticipation, but there’s no doubt that the will is there, because @czechmade is absolutely right: it is kids religion that is at stake here (and Dutch tradition as well).
    Parade in Amsterdam (notice the triple xxx).

    Kind regs from Amsterdam,

  19. Sagunto,

    I can imagine the Dutch gov. looses one day the gift of speech. Whatever they say will be utterly hollow.

    The more sensitive and intelligent will quit the boot. The rest will be buried like coffin ripe communists.

    Whatever could not be said before will be pronounced with amazing accuracy. Everybody will be surprized by his gift of (free) speech.

    This energy will be a bigger impediment to the further subsistence of the immigrants than countless military units. Some immigrants will celebrate this with you, so there will be no need to think of some racist paraphernalia for a second.

    The sheer joy of speaking a clear language will corner the little devils for ever.

    Just a scenario.

  20. I only hope that the popular uprising for which we hope is prepared to finish the job, whatever that may need be. Otherwise, we’ll see arrests of numerous native Dutch, public outcries from the U.N. about hateful Islamophobes, mandatory (and taxpayer funded) sensitivity training, cries for protection of immigrants from the intolerant natives, etc.

    This is no time for half measures.

  21. @czechmade,

    What “waycist” paraphernalia?
    I sure hope you aren’t hinting at “Zwarte Piet”?
    Anyhew, the immigrants are already celebrating: just check out the 3rd pic in my last post and watch the spectators.

    Kind regs from Amsterdam,

  22. Sag, I thank you for the correction. My statement was based upon information gotten from watching US television news reports lauding the Dutch for their progressive thinking. Things I learned BEFORE I discovered the internet.

  23. Don’t forget that another scenario could play out, the day the uprisings start. Maybe the police and military decides to be loyal with their masters, the powers that be and isntead of firing at the muslims, they start firing on the natives instead. That would indeed be a dark day for us all.

  24. IoshkaFutz,

    The solution is simple, though painful: mob violence. Mothers and fathers, grandfathers and uncles beating the living daylights out of these immigrant thugs who think they can lord over your country and terrorize the children.

    Thusly speak and Italian.

    And we all love you for that. Mille grazie!

  25. Ciao LFC,

    “Islam knows no shame or reason.”
    What if someone had written “Christianity knows no shame or reason” or “Judaism knows no shame or reason”? All three of these statements are equivalent in their ignorance, bigotry, and stupidity.

    I understand your worthy sentiments, but according to my sources there is a religion that promotes, and condones suicide bombings, child marriage, Kafir-hatred, locked out cities. I’ve been told that some top theologians, operating from the holiest mosques within stone-throwing distance of the Kaba have even called for the murder of Mickey Mouse. (It is not certain whether he was aware that Mickey is a fictitious character or whether he meant the cartoonists).

    I’ve also been informed that instead of receiving tender and loving treatment, young girls who’ve been raped get half buried in pits and become the receiving end for hurled geological missiles while the menfolk throwing the missiles belt out that the creator of the Universe is Grand.

    I’ve also heard from other sources that thousands upon thousands of motorvehicles are likely to get torched in areas of high Muslim density in and around Paris, once known as the Ville Lumiere and today – I guess – La Ville Incandescente or La Ville Fougueuse.

    So to answer your question, if someone were to say “Christianity or Judaism knows no shame or reason,” I’d say that plenty of those religionists (active or passive) probably know too much reason and too much shame to the extent that they have become shameless and unreasonable, as in preferring recycled sociology to the protection of their own children’s good, clean fun and their country’s age-old traditions.

    So those who just stand by idly and write letters to the editor instead of surrounding the Moroccan Thugs (BTW the “Moroccan” in “Moroccan Thugs” is only because they happened to be “Moroccan,” but it can be conveniently changed to “Algerian” or “Norwegian” or for the sake of political correctness entirely dropped) are being unreasonably reasonable and shamefully shameless.

    Then the debates and parliamentary interrogations can come thick and plenty, but at least a certain awareness sinks in that THAT particular neighborhood is old-fashioned and dangerous when Sinterklaas comes to town and the Zwarte Piets are up and about. And for a couple of days out of the year, like a short Ramadam, the “Youths” can call a “Hudna” and study the Koran instead of putting it into practice.

  26. A Muslim mullah recently told his followers that celebrating Halloween was the “absolute worst” thing they could do and they would go to hell because of it. Since this Dutch celebration has some kind of tie-in with Halloween, it sounds like the radical Muslims are trying to wipe it out of existence. The Dutch are going to lose their culture, their traditions, and their religion (what is left of it). War has been declared against your country.

  27. @jewel,
    I understand. Well, spread the good news: most of these things have less to do with “progressive thinking” (bit of an oxymoron there) and more with the need to be undogmatic and practical about important issues, to keep this collage of a “nation” together. A lot of Dutch hate these regulations in a way, because many think that the State has no (should have no) business in these matters. Like the ridiculous ban on smoking in pubs. It will be resisted.

    @robin shadowes,
    You’re absolutely right. And incidents have already happened over here that prove your point (police fighting locals protesting Islamic youths’ harassment). It would be the biggest mistake the authorities could make.

    I know @margaretha,
    that the attack on ancient traditions is an inherent trait of the Islamic doctrine. It will manifest itself where and whenever Islam has a big enough following. But we’re not going to lose our traditions, quite the contrary: these cherished traditions will provide ordinary people with the inspiration to resist.

    Remember Böckenförde’s thesis?
    “Our secularized liberal state lives from sources it cannot (re)generate itself”.

    It is exactly those sources that the above article touches upon. They will be fiercely defended, unlike our secularized liberal state. These feasts for kids will save the day.

    Kind regs from Amsterdam,

    for the sake of completeness, here’s a link for @czechmade, but only if he really did insinuate that Zwarte Pieten (Black Petes) equal “racist paraphernalia”. There’s only one thing that can infuriate the Dutch more than attacking their children during a lantern parade, and that is to claim what only someone completely foreign to the tradition of Sinterklaas can, like this Swedish-German artistic collaboration.

  28. Saguntom I did not

    for the sake of completeness, here’s a link for @czechmade, but only if he really did insinuate that Zwarte Pieten (Black Petes) equal “racist paraphernalia”

    My idea was, after you celebrate your victory, some immigrants will be with you simply. The immigrant society must be very fragmented. As long as Leitkulturists are shy, many must be even more shy, no?

  29. Ok, I didn’t quite understand the point in using those two words, sorry for that.
    It seemed that you wanted to contrast them with the rest of that particular comment, which was about free speech. But free speech isn’t what a possible rebellion of Dutch “traditionalists” is about. We already have that (still), though it is under siege. What will be defended doesn’t belong to the liberal democratic state, but to the last remaining fragments of tradition that precede it. My impression is, I’m sorry to say, that free speech is not what will inspire ordinary people to resist the useful idiots in power. That is the whole point: if you seek to predict actual counter-jihad, don’t look for “grand schemes” or concepts to be put into practice. Pay attention to little things. These things will vary between countries, but now you know where to look for in Holland: Sint & Piet and Sint Maarten’s lantern parades, you know.. for kids 😉

    Kind regs from Amsterdam,

    I’d still be very pleased to hear from you what exactly you did mean by “no need to think of some racist paraphernalia”. It just didn’t seem to make sense in your comment. Who would be thinking of racist paraphernalia and what would they entail?

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