15 thoughts on “Get Ready for a “Disproportionate Response””

1. Get on with it!

2. A diproportionate response would be to do nothing.

3. At risk of upsetting the people who put in the hours and do such a good job on this superb website, I have to ask, Can you give Israel a rest, guys? I am neither pro- nor anti- the Jewish state personally. It’s just that I find the Israelophilia counterproductive and hypocritical in terms of GoV’s broader goals.

   I have stayed in Israel long enough to understand that (1) its people, although Jewish, are mostly of European and American origin, especially the Israeli elite, and (2) that the local Arabs are essentially correct in perceiving it to be a western colony imposed on what had been their home territory for a millennium. Yes, Hebrew was allegedly kept alive in Jewish Levantine enclaves throughout the Ottoman and Mandate years but that is hardly relevant to the modern claim on Palestine. By the same token you might argue that Welsh-speakers have a valid modern claim on northwest England, since Lancashire and Cumbria are believed to have been Welsh-speaking and Welsh people two thousand years ago. I’m sorry, I don’t care what happened two thousand years ago. If you support Israel on this basis, logically you also have to back historic Ainu claims on northern Japan, aboriginal Malay claims on all of Taiwan, Sami claims on half of Sweden .. the list is endless, right down to the Maoris in NZ. It is just silly. What it says in the bible should be completely irrelevant to modern statecraft. If you have to resort to the old testament as your prop in the legimitacy debate about Israel, you are no better than Islamist cranks citing the Koran to justify their claims and actions.

   Through your Israelophilia, I feel, you are essentially arguing for the very population replacement you purport to oppose. For one thousand years, Palestine was Arab for the same reasons that Europe was European. Because of the people who built the towns and villages there, farmed the land, and created its dominant culture and traditions. I believe in this notion of national birthright myself. If you think it is OK for rich European Jews, backed by international institutions and (at the time) overwhelmingly western political power, to simply walk in and take an overwhelmingly Arab territory, why is wrong for Moroccans and Turks to walk in and take over Denmark or Sweden? What is the difference? Can you answer that without resorting to quoting a two-thousand year collection of unproveable and irrelevant legends?

   Ok, men, load, open fire ..

   • Suggest you read a little more history and listen to a little less propaganda, in 1917 at the time Jerusalem passed into British hands it was a Jewish majority city, as were Safed, Petach Tikvah, Rishon l’Etzion, and Tiberias. The overall population of ‘palestine’ was about 700,000 in the whole of what is now Jordan and Israel including Gaza, Judea and Samaria.
     Of this population, some 55,000 were Jews living in what is now Israel. along with a similar number of others of mixed race and a few Arabs. In fact, this Jewish population, and its industry, caused Arabs to migrate into the land…..

     For a more exact History You should read “From Time Immemorial” by Joan Peters. You might then be able to separate Fact, Myth and malignant Falsity.

     As to the relevance of Israel to a world struggling against a tsunami of Shariah, (in case you had not noticed, that is the raison d’etre of this website), then Israel is in the frontline of that battle, it is the only place where the creep of Shariah has been stopped dead. If you want to stop Islam, then learn from Israel, don’t demonise it or it will be your throat being slit as a sacrifice to Allah and his prophet….

     In your ‘stay’ in Israel, you either did not open your eyes, or you did not leave the centres of Tel Aviv/Jerusalem. Of the 6 million population of Israel ‘anglos’ are the smallest of the population groups. There are considerable numbers of Misrahi and Magrebi Jews kicked out of Arab lands in the early fifties, there are Indian Jews, there are Yemenite and Ethiopian Jews, there are Kafkahzis from the ‘stans, and recently many immigrants from Russia proper, it is a ripe mish mash. Again, do your homework…..

     • Indeed so, MC. You could also have mentioned that most Jews are Sephardi or Ashkenazi, and their DNA is around 70% Semitic, ie of Middle Eastern origin, even after, in most cases, nearly two millenia of enforced exile.

       Also European travellers to “Palestine” up to the early 19th Century reported it as sparsely populated; the arrival of early Zionist settlers created businesses and jobs, encouraging more Arabs to settle. Sorry if this sounds like teaching my grandmother to suck eggs!

       Anon- by your criteria, the non-natives in the Americas, Australia etc. should defer to the indigenous people. Be careful what you wish for.

     • “…it is the only place where the creep of Shariah has been stopped dead.”

       Does Israel grant seditious Muslims citizenship and leadership rights? Actual question….

       • Yes and No, Uniquely in the Middle East, Israeli Arabs have exactly the same rights as any other Israeli, and can so attain to any public position, however, rule of law is applied across the spectrum here, there is the same law for all, with no special cases for minority religious groups. Thus in Israel the politicoIslamic aspirations of Israeli Arabs are limited by their support in the Knesset, usually only by the leftist parties if at all. However I would also emphasise that immigration into Israel is STRICTLY controlled and our borders are secure, this is why the liberals hate us so. I suspect thar Mr. Anon is confusing the PA dominated territory of Judea and Samaria with Israel proper. Abu Mazzin (Abbas) has served the first 10 years of his 4 year term and thus, technically represents nobody! and much of the aid money provided to build infrastructure projects ends up in Swiss bank accounts, but Israeli Arabs who don’t pay their bills get cut-off, just like anybody else, we in Israel do not play the bigotry game of making special allowances and setting quotas for cultures assumed to be ‘inferior’ and unable to compete in general society.

     • MC-

       I looked on Amazon for the book you suggested:

       From Time Immemorial: The Origins of the Arab-Jewish Conflict over Palestine

       The page lists it as #9 in books about the Middle East. As a good reason to buy it, I offer the evidence that Noam Chomsky hated it, as you can see if you read the one star reviews.

       Interestingly, the author, a Christian, was hired by an Arab foundation to write about the PoorPali(TM) population but as time went on, her research took her in a different direction than they wanted – i.e., into sympathy for Israel’s plight.

       For political books, I always head to the cellar of one-star reviews to see the teeth-gnashing hatreds on display. For this book, evidently the extremeleftwing* bots were out in full force: at some point Amaxon decided to delete twenty or so of those one-star review. That left another twenty one star “zionist fraud” vitriolic reviews to peruse. Besides, down there in the one stars is usually where you’ll find the especially entertaining realms, the dark sweaty sub-basements – i.e., the comments left on individual reviews. This happens in the higher-starred reviews too, but you’re more likely to find the real ‘dialogue’ down there. They are dark and sweaty realms because there is a great deal of heat but little light generated in the perfervid hatred of Jooos.

       My low energy means I shop mostly online. At Amazon I’ve become an aficionado of the review sections of their products. Everything, not just the books.

       However, in any of the books about the political history of the 20th century, the reviews have been a learning experience.

       I’d read them occasionally before but it was Diana West’s book where I was first schooled in intramural hatreds…i.e., people who were purportedly on the same side, fighting the same war, formed circular firing squads down there in the the one star reviews.

       American Betrayal: The Secret Assault on Our Nation’s Character

       Last year when I first looked there Diana West ~100 five-star reviews and about 17 one-stars – later reduced by Amazon to 14. Now, almost a year later, there are over 200 five-stars, while the cellar has risen to 20 or so negatives. I didn’t check this time, but on previous occasions, a great majority of the four and five star reviews were marked by Amazon as verified purchases while the cellar had only two.

       The reviews on Peters’ book are less clear. The newest reviews are verified purchases, but not so the ones dating back to 2000 or so. Perhaps Amazon didn’t add that feature till later?

       Sounds like a review from MC or someone else who’s read the book would make for good reading. Unless you’re Noam Chomsky.

       ———————-
       *extremeleftwing is the other half of the MSM’s usual extremerightwing designation. You’ll never see the left so designated since our jornolists don’t see the water in which they swim.

     • Throughout most of the last millennium the Jewish population of Palestine west of the River Jordan was barely over 20%. It was only a third in 1947. It was Arab land. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Palestine#Demographics_in_the_Ottoman_period
       No, I wasn’t in Tel Aviv. I was in the sticks, and saw with my own eyes Arab villages without water or power in this so-called modern state. I heard too at first hand about the dispossessions of Arabs out there, from kin of the dispossessed. I naturally spoke to hundreds of Israelis, and while they were Semitic by DNA, they were generally western by origin. I don’t think the DNA makes any difference. They were broad-sense European colonists (including US, Canadian, South African and South American Jews) from rich and powerful countries who could import massive financial and technological resources to develop the country, just as Brits did in New Zealand.
       I also saw an ineffectual rocket attack. I think my views on Israel are informed by more than propaganda.

       • So, back it up with more than just your own opinion, name the villages, so far you have just described the standard pally propaganda speil usually given on anti-Israel tour #1.

         • The villages were near the Lebanon border mainly, and as you must know, there aren’t too many signs in English out there. There aren’t that many paved roads either for that matter. I had to use an interpreter to talk to people of course. But what does it matter what the villages were called? Do you really think I come onto this forum to tell you all a bunch of lies?

         • yes, many do!

         • There are many nuances of Israeli society which westerners find hard to understand, and Ottoman land laws are particularly labyrinthine. Ottoman law (note Ottoman not Arab, they are very, very different) passed through the mandate and into Israeli law and much of it still stands. Simplified, there are three types of land, State land, Private land and ‘common’ land, Common land belongs to whoever makes it productive on a first come, first served basis as long as it is kept in “close cultivation”, if the land is left for more than two years uncultivated, then it is there for the use of anybody who cares to cultivate it.
           The Pallies often use the western assumption of absolute ‘title’ to accuse others of ‘dispossession’ of land to which they have no ‘title’ and have left idle, on the assumption that nobody would ‘take possession’. So they bleat when somebody does. Now all Arab-Israelis have access to courts of law just like any other Israeli citizen, and can legally ‘dispute’ dispossession just like everybody else, but they don’t because they know the law is not on their side, but they are very happy to whine to gullible westerners.

4. A number of I think vital points for victory over Jihad are in http://4international.me/2014/07/10/jews-must-have-trotskyist-leadership-to-fight-this-war-against-a-cruel-jihadist-palestinian-enemy/

5. All the bleeding hearts ignore what “proprotionate” response is when used in military terms.

   If means that if the enemy targets only your military, you target only theirs, if they target infrastructure you go after theirs. If they indiscriminately target your civilian population, the gloves come off.

   It has got absolutely nothing to do with the size of the hammer you choose to use. In war you hit the other bastard with the biggest hammer you’ve got.

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