Open Letter to his Holiness Pope Francis

The following open letter to Pope Francis was written today by Geert Wilders, the leader of the PVV (Partij voor de Vrijheid, Party for Freedom) in the Netherlands.

Open letter to his Holiness Pope Francis

Your Holiness,

In your recent exhortation Evangelii Gaudium (Paragraphs 247-248) you draw the world’s attention to the indebtedness of Christianity to the Jews and their faith. The exhortation also contains a sharp condemnation of the terrible persecutions which the Jews have endured from Christians in the past.

Your words are words which might inspire many.

Unfortunately, they are in sharp contrast to the expressions of hatred which were voiced last October by the spiritual leader of Sunni Islam, Ahmad Al-Tayeb, the Grand Imam of the Al-Azhar Institute in Cairo.

During an interview, aired on Egyptian television on October 25, Grand Imam Ahmad Al-Tayeb reaffirmed the relevance of Koranic verse 5:82, which states that of all people the Christians are closest to the Muslims, while the Jews are strongest in enmity towards them. This verse has inspired centuries of Islamic hatred of Jews.

Al-Tayeb’s invocation of Koranic Jew-hatred is in line with fourteen centuries of Islamic teaching. Grand Imam Al-Tayeb’s predecessor at Al-Azhar, Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi, even wrote a book, entitled The Children of Israel in the Koran and the Sunna, in defense of Jew-hatred based on Koranic teachings.

The current suffering of Christians from Islamic persecution in Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Sudan, Nigeria, Pakistan, Indonesia, and so many other countries, clearly indicates what Christians have to endure from the followers of the Koran. What atheists and Jews, who are considered the worst enemies, have to endure from Islam is even worse.

In your exhortation Evangelii Gaudium (paragraphs 252-253) you state that “authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence.”

Reality does not confirm this statement.

The Koran is full of bellicose and hate-mongering verses against non-Muslims. Your Holiness will be able to find them if he reads the Koran, but I will name just a few:


 2:191-193: “And slay them wherever you come upon them, […] Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is Allah’s.”
 4:89: “If they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper.”
 5:33: “This is the recompense of those who fight against Allah and His Messenger, […]: they shall be slaughtered, or crucified, or their hands and feet shall alternately be struck off; or they shall be banished from the land.”
 8:60: “Make ready for them whatever force and strings of horses you can, to terrify thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy.”
 9:5: “When the sacred months are drawn away, slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush.”
 9:29: “Fight those who believe not in Allah.”
 9:30: “The Christians call Christ the son of God. That is a saying from their mouth; they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them.”
 9:123: “O believers, fight the unbelievers who are near to you; and let them find in you a harshness; and know that Allah is with the godfearing.”
 47:4: “When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks.”
 

I hope that the Holy Father will help us defend the West’s Judeo-Christian and humanistic civilization, to which even atheists and agnostics owe their freedom and democracy.

Nothing will be gained by a refusal to face reality.

We must speak the truth about Islam — the largest threat to mankind in this present age.

Very respectfully,
Geert Wilders

Member of the Dutch Parliament
Leader of the Party for Freedom (PVV)

Update: Dr. Andrew Bostom has addressed the same issue extensively, backed up by appropriate citations. He notes:

Former Pope Benedict XVI, and current Pope Francis have openly expressed their ecumenism toward Jews and Judaism, while acknowledging Christianity’s indebtedness to Jewish ethical values. This ecumenical message has been coupled to frank, mea culpa-based contrition for the tragic legacy of Christian antisemitism. The disparity between their attitudes and their two contemporary Sunni Muslim equivalents, Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi and Ahmad Al-Tayeb — the latter having emphatically and triumphantly re-asserted the modern relevance of canonical Islam’s conspiratorial Jew-hatred — could not be more striking.

Both Tantawi’s and his successor Ahmad Al-Tayeb’s career trajectories to the pinnacle of Sunni Islamic religious education, despite their own public endorsements of virulent, if “sacralized” Islamic Jew-hatred, reflect the profound moral pathology at the very heart and soul of mainstream, institutional Islam.

147 thoughts on “Open Letter to his Holiness Pope Francis

  1. Pingback: LETTER TO THE POPE BY GEERT WILDERS……. |

  2. Well said, Baron. The very act of stating that “…authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence” is a bald-faced lie. It is a lie as opposed to a mistake because Pope Francis it far too educated to be unaware of what the Koran (the source of authentic Islam) expressly commands. As committed as I am to the independence of the Church, I long for a Hohenstaufen emperor who would have put a stop to Francis’ antics long ago. I think that this is a key aspect of a Westerner’s mindset – he does not allow his support of his nation/culture nor that of his church to completely override the other. This is what far too many modern Catholics and European patriots alike (such as the Thule society guys) are missing.

    • For the record, I only read the italicized introduction a few seconds ago. Although my respect for the Baron is in no way diminished, I now realize that in this case my given credit goes to Geert. Mr. Wilders is an example of what our pre-Leftist textbooks would refer to as Calvinist toughness, to which I would add solid straight-talking. If the secular and religious elements of Western Europe do not come together in some degree of cooperation to address the current threat of Islam, both sides will wind up losing more than necessary.

      • We are fortunate that Mr. Wilders has requested his “Epistle to the Roman” appear here. What he asks is reasonable and robustly forthright.

        The necessity for an important Christian leader to demonstrate truth and discernment hasn’t been so crucial since the dark days of WWII.

        Surely Francis knows very well that he has thoroughly demoralized the thousands of Christians dying in the Middle East and North Africa – not to mention those being sold into slavery on the African continent?

        Those facts are not in dispute since Islam brags about what they’re doing.

        These people are laying down their lives for the sake of their faith. They are being tortured, killed and sold into slavery by Allah’s followers and what is the pope saying to them?

        What kind of shepherd abandons his flock for the sake of some multicultural feel-good pronouncements?

        As they used to say in the old church, the one before Vatican II, you are sadly a cause for scandal, Holy Father.

  3. Beste Geert, ik onderschrijf uw reactie helemaal. Kennelijk zijn de ogen van hen die op vooraanstaande posities zitten geheel verblind. Geweldig dat een niet aflatende ijver aan de dag legt om daar tegenwicht aan te bieden. Wellicht is het ook aan te bevelen om in het kader van de samenwerking duidelijk (er) aan te geven dat er bij de pvv geen enkele ruimte is voor anti Joodse gevoelens.

    Met hartelijke groet,
    Nico van Mourik
    Genemuiden

    [machine translation: Dear Geert, I agree with your comment at all. Apparently the eyes of those who are in leading positions completely blinded. Great that an unrelenting zeal to submit it to offer. Counterbalance Perhaps it is also recommended to clear (er) to indicate that the PVV is no room for anti-Jewish sentiments. Within the framework of cooperation

    Sincerely,
    Nico van Mourik
    genemuiden]

  4. DEZE REACTIE UWERZIJDS DE PAUS , IS VOLLEDIG OP ZIJN PLAATS

    [machine translation: THIS RESPONSE your part POPE IS FULLY IN PLACE]

  5. [quote]…We must speak the truth..[/quote] In the end this boils down to: we must speak [bold]my truth[/bold]. Stated by a man who abolished catholic faith at the age of 18. Apart from that; there is no such thing as absolute truth. Those who do claim proclaiming the one and only truth in fact are blindfolded. Obviously, Mr. Geert Wilders is one of them. Addressing the Pope is no more than a scam, merely to please political followers and voters. So be it. One can embrace this scam and accept the fact the Pope is dragged into a political issue, merely for the benefit of the political agenda from Mr. Geert Wilders. Whatever one does feel about what Mr. Geert Wilders stands for, (Trying to) imply the Pope in this contradicts separation of church, politics as well as pure personal gain. Therefore it’s no less than a shame Mr. Geert Wilders is having a go on it. Shame on him.

    • “One can embrace this scam and accept the fact the Pope is dragged into a political issue, merely for the benefit of the political agenda from Mr. Geert Wilders.”

      The vicar of Rome has no problem pontificating on political matters. Yet he runs a million miles from commenting on the politics of islam.

    • Paul, basically your BROTHER has a point here.
      The fact that you react on his letter in this way, shows also only your opinion, not fact. A very colored opinion indeed, because everything that your BROTHER does is in your opinion an action of personal gain.
      But by writing this statement over and over again, basically always the same statement, in combination with the name Wilders, makes me believe that you completely do that out of personal gain and a cheap way to leech on the blood of your BROTHER…… The fact that you write for joop.nl even supports that believe even more.
      Yes your BROTHER has a political agenda, he is a politician…… DUH

      • Well said Nederlander, I completely agree with you.
        The problems are raising over our heads, European society shows the facts, England, France, Greece and more, and Geert is one of the few signing them.

        Whatever Geert’s motives are, I am glad at least someone isnt afraid to stand up and say out loud where the problems lay. Which doesnt mean that all moslims are to be disgarded, but it does mean the islam is dangerous to the way of living we know. Expecially for females? Does Paul have issues with females himself?

    • Shame on the pope for telling such a bald faced lie – and good on Wilders for calling him out on it.

      More people should do the same, instead of blindly believing that the sun shines out of the pope’s rear end. Because it definitely does not – he is a LIAR.

      Deal with it.

    • We all know how sour you are towards your brother, who is actually achieving things in life and stands up for his opinion and the opinion of millions (in the Netherlands only). Besides that, popes have themselves dragged into political issues for centuries. In all honesty I think for a great part it is you who made your brother into what he is and what he’s doing. We can only thank you for that, Paulus.

      • I disagree that Geert WIlders’ support is limited to the Dutch. As an Opus Dei cooperator in the center of the US, I could probably not find too much spiritual common ground, but Mr. Wilders has my best interests as well as those of no faith at all. The pope is the chief defender of the faith on earth. That Geert Wilders defends the persecuted while Pope Francis defends Islam tells me the rough beast is slouching towards Bethlehem if not already there.

    • Paul: “Stated by a man who abolished catholic faith at the age of 18″
      Geert’s letter is very wise. The leadership of the Catholic Church (and of the western world) lacks some proper sense. The following phrase applies: “Christian peoples, the heathens will teach you”. The pope should take Geert’s message very seriously.

      Paul: “Apart from that; there is no such thing as absolute truth. Those who do claim proclaiming the one and only truth in fact are blindfolded.”
      Paul makes a here claim; therefore he considers this to be an absolute truth. This claim itself is “there is no absolute truth”, so Paul contradicts himself. This may look funny, but it is a rather sad illustration of prevalent thinking. The western civilization has become great and prosperous by acknowledging that there exists an absolute truth, and that its is worthwhile to find it. Jesus said: “I am the way, the truth, and the life”. This should encourage at least Christians to always pursue the truth.

      Paul: “Addressing the Pope is no more than a scam, merely to please political followers and voters.”
      Paul does know what his brother’s intensions have been with this letter. I, for one, am very glad that Geert addressed my pope. I would have liked to write such a letter myself, and that would not be to please political followers and voters, because I don’t have any. I would have wanted just to send my pope this very message; however, I reckoned that my pope would receive far too much letters every day to read these all, so I did not bother. I expect my pope he will read Geert’s letter, and I hope he will really get the message.

      Paul: “One can embrace this scam and accept the fact the Pope is dragged into a political issue (…)”.
      The pope should stand for Christianity. That implies among others exposing the dangers of opposing ideologies. If this would make it a political issue then so be it; doing nothing would be just as much a political issue.

      Paul: “Shame on him.”
      Paul has a very brave and bright brother. It is a pity that Paul and many other people refuse to think honestly about Geert and the islamic threat. “For it is now a war of ideas. The fight no longer concerns races and peoples; the fight concerns the spirit. Understand this well.”

      • For me Christianity is ambiguity set in stone.

        It’s apparent contradictions make for a very lively and creative religion. Indeed, when the civilization peaked in the 19th century the Muslims encountering our wonder works and the mass of ghettoized Jews (and those arriving from the Shetls of Ukraine) must have rubbed their eyes and been in awe at the Infidel accomplishment.

        • The problem with Christianity is that is has lost its teeth. It has zero healthy aggression
          which is crippling it especially in Moslem countries. ‘ Turning the other cheek ‘ should be left to [redacted], it is just seen as pacifism and weakness by the followers of the Paedo Prophet.

          • Speaking as a “tough Calvinist”, I regretfully agree that Christianity has “lost its teeth”.

            Well, not entirely. Some of us remain engaged in mission to non-believers. However, such aggression is waged by spiritual weapons (II Corinthians 10:3-5) rather than the bricks, stones, firebombs and whatnot that Muslilms like to use.

            And we’ve been pleasantly surprised by some results. Among Christians of Iranian origin in the USA, those from a Muslim background are poised to overtake historically Christian ethnicities such as Armenians and Assyrians, if they have not done so already. In the Kabyle region of Algeria and southeastern Turkey, there are Evangelical groups which have been planted by returning guest workers from Europe.

            Most of my own interest focus on Sinitic Asia (where I admittedly have ties), and am certainly heartened that the fury of the Communists has not destroyed the church in China. But I am also interested in what God is doing in other parts of the world, too.

            It remains my prayer that the cracks in Islam which the new churches among the Kabyle, Turks, and Islamic diasporae in the West represent may grow and multiply. I’ve seen the aftermaths of wars in a couple of countries, and while I am a proponent of Augustine’s just war teaching rather than of Mennonite pacifism, I’d prefer that God would not enter into judgments with His servants in such a manner.

      • Whether or not there is absolute truth is beside the point. Political Islam seeks to destroy any person who does not line up with it’s definition of truth. They will come after all infidels once the Jew is gone next the Christian then it’ll be you.

    • “Apart from that; there is no such thing as absolute truth. Those who do claim proclaiming the one and only truth in fact are blindfolded.”

      If there is no such thing as absolute truth, as you stated above, does that make your statement–there is no such thing as absolute truth–not true? If so, then it is merely your opinion.

    • Quote:
      Paul: “Apart from that; there is no such thing as absolute truth. Those who do claim proclaiming the one and only truth in fact are blindfolded.”
      end

      Really?
      No absolute truth?
      Why don’t you tell the Muslims in your country that . . . as they’re on their way home from the Mosque TODAY?
      You have no business bringing your rancor here.
      Your brother is a politician and advocate for the West. Period.

    • OH MAN. YOU ARE SO WRONG AND BLINDED FOR WHAT ISLAM STANDS FOR. MR. GEERT WILDERS IS THE ONLY ONE WHO TRY TO OPEN THE EYES OF THE PEOPLE. NOTHING TO DO WITH POLITICS BUT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH FREEDOM. DE ISLAM TRIES TO TAKE OUR FREEDOM AND WANT TO DOMINATE THE WORLD.

    • To Paul:

      Proverbs 27:4

      “Wrath is cruel, anger is overwhelming,
      but who can stand before jealousy?” (…)

      from your own comment:

      “..there is no such thing as absolute truth..”
      and
      “Obviously, Mr. Geert Wilders is one of them.”

      Nice one, brother…

      To Geert:

      Wij zien je strijd, we zien de opofferingen die je maakt om ons te vertegenwoordigen en ons te helpen. We zijn bijzonder trots op je doorzettingsvermogen en staan vierkant achter je! Altijd!
      (nog even doorzetten en Mark’s partijtje is gedecimeert :)

      {We see the battle you fight, we see the sacrifices you make to represent us (!) and we are very proud of you! You have our support, always!}

    • How many ways can you error? The old canard no absolute truth. The problem is a good many of “the faithful” shall buy the Pope’s words at face value instead of implying the necessary critical thinking. We are blessed to have a leader such as Geert whether in the Netherlands or wherever willing to speak truth to power – whatever power. Lampooning the messenger does nothing.

      Unless I missed something, Francis has injected himself into the political fray. While that boat floats nice in calm seas, its not so comfortable in the rough storms.

    • Paul,

      I appreciate your view on the case, and i agree with you. It must be difficult for you to have such brother. Pope Francis will probably pray for him and ask God to clean your brother with his fascist thoughts.

    • @Paul Wilders,

      “there is no such thing as absolute truth”

      Let’s take one example – mathematics. If someone says that 2+2=4, would you not call that an absolute truth? If so, this would mean that there is, in fact, something called absolute truth…

      Moving on, are historical facts such as the Nazis invading the Netherlands not “absolute truths”?

      And, moving on further, is it not an absolute truth to say that a book which contains the passage “fight the nonbelievers until they surrender and pay you tax” is (in some circumstances, at least) supporting violence? Which means that it’s also an absolute truth to say that a religion which regards this book as holy and the word of God is NOT “opposed to every form of violence.”?

      Just because an issue’s complicated does NOT mean that there isn’t an “absolutely true” answer to it. In this case – the question of whether or not authentic Islam is “opposed to every form of violence.” – is not so complicated… Texts from the Koran such as those cited by your (presumed) brother in his letter to Pope Francis would likely be judged to be clear examples of incitement to violence – if they appeared in any other context.

      • Green Infidel:
        Exactly my words, you formed them before me.
        Sure there are absolute truths, and Geert Wilderts claim saying that the Popes statement about Islam is not supported of the reality is well documented by the Koran.
        How can Paul Wilders deny those passes in the Koran which is not just a book as any, but THE BOOK, all Muslim has to take literally, word by word and obey it?

        To Paul Wilders: this is the first time I ever heard about you, and you did not win any credibility at all.

    • I joined the Church a few years ago in spite of all the sinners and the awful company within. I was heartily sick of all the sinners and awful company outside it. Now, at least, I have a hope of becoming a saint.

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  7. Thank you, Mr. Wilder, for your tenacity and courage to speak truthfully. Andrew Breitbart would be proud, I am sure. The heads in the sand, or the clouds, both create a blindness which make life less safe.
    Kate

  8. Dear Mr. Wilders,

    When one speaks of ‘proper reading’, it still leaves a lot to be interpreted as pleased. Proper in the sense of reading it in accordance with that which is acceptable and just, would not include any execution of Sharia law, which is, even by most moderate Islamic spiritual leaders, considered out of date and inhumane.

    The road to democracy is often -if not always- a bumpy one. Instability in regions previously under firm control of a strong autocratic leader, sadly does often lead to acts of aggression against minorities. This does however not mean at all we should condemn Islam and treat is as ‘the largest threat to mankind in this present age.’ Such attitude backed by the likes of these ominous phrases are in fact a harmful phenomenon, which might afflict more damage than it does good on the area of developing more ‘proper’ and modern states of affairs in said countries.

    The spreading of hatred -which you are now very much doing yourself mister Wilders- will cause even more polarity to emerge between Christians, Jews, Atheïsts and Muslims, emerging out of that polarity will be outbursts of violence and even less understanding between the people wherever they are.

    Islam has worked (very) well for the regions where it is most present, naturally. Christianity has done the same in Europe and thereby in many of its (former) oversea extensions. Christianity has only developed to be a more tolerant and ‘modern’ religion because the times and circumstances demanded it. E.g. We stopped burning our witches, started basing laws on rationality, decided our wives shouldn’t be considered property in the sense one would consider a mule or cow to be and so on.

    One needn’t look long at the Middle-East to realize times and circumstances are rapidly changing there as well. But rather than to launch a new religious crusade, we ought to encourage favorable developments and perhaps sanction those upon which we cannot agree, but not via the use of inflammable speeches, but with peaceful diplomatic actions.

    Yours truly,
    The spirit of Nelson Mandela

    • Dear Spirit,

      Before you try to cover up everything with love…..
      Sharia is inhumane and outdated, why are there more and more West European countries receiving requests to look into the use of Sharia laws and are some of those countries, for example the Netherlands, willingly looking into the application of these Sharia laws in certain cases?

      I agree that Mr. Wilders is using strong terminology, but he does have a point that the Islam in its medieval aggressiveness is rampaging over more and more standards of our western society and that nearly no politician within the EU takes this seriously. On the other hand we as common citizens within the EU see this on a daily basis.
      What Mr. Wilders asks is for His Holiness to for once speak the truth and not be politically correct, so that EU politicians finally can pull their heads out of each others [nether orifices] and start to address this Islam issue in a political correct manner. So no war on Islam, just recognition and addressing the issue.

    • The Spirit of Nelson Mandela is a spirit of communism and terrorism. The Rivonia trials were not about Apartheid, they were about the maiming and killing of innocents by the communist terrorost cell that Mandela was part of.

      Who founded Umkhonto we Sizwe, the terrorist arm of the ANC which made a hobby of blowing up restaurants full of children?

      This is Taqiyyah, where is your approbation for the ritual murder of Lee Rigby, whose murderers are now on trial and admitting that they killed him in the manner used to slaughter animals? We do sot see much of the milk of ‘Islamic’ kindness here in Sderot…..

      • Couldn’t agree more, MCinsiderot.

        I hold no candle for the Apartheid system, but I’ve seen the South African emigres in Taiwan and in the American classrooms where I taught English for Speakers of Other Languages–and they aren’t all white. I suspect Mandela went the reconciliation route because he walked out of prison at a time when possible sponsors for the justice-as-revenge that a lot of his movement believed in were on the geopolitical ropes. Had the Soviet Union lasted a few more years, Alan Paton’s beloved country would’ve had a lot more to cry about.

        I believe that a lot of the adulation for Mr. Mandela is misplaced. He remained an unrepentant admirer of Castro’s Cuba and Mao’s China to the end, and many of his followers were trained in terrorism by Libya, the PLO, and former East Bloc security services. Perhaps the reason why Apartheid died just after the Soviet Bloc did was because someone near and dear to the heart of the Almighty was praying for God to bless South Africa.

    • And in the meantime Iran works on a nucleair bombe… wake up spirit of Mandela….

      To be honoust.. how dare you speak in the name of a spirit you have never met and only know through the social media. No facts again, Mandela was not exactly holy, there is blood on his hands.

    • Your islam in the presence of the West is an abomination and if you haven’t noticed, wherever islam goes, the blood always flows, without exception, take you islam and leave our shores because the day is coming where you will not be given a choice, Deo Volente! Long Live the Crusades!

    • Sheesh. What patronizing fluff talk!

      So you scold the West for its medieval past, but a blind eye to Islam’s medieval present.

      But you get a gold star for producing such exemplary patronizing fluffiness.

    • Dear “Spirit”

      Yes, one can see how Islam has worked “very” well in the regions where it is present. We can see in the beacons of enlightenment and progress that are Afghanistan, Somalia, Pakistan, Syria, and countless other places. In Saudi Arabia, the home of Mohammed, Islam has worked so well, and spread such progress, that women do not even need to be “oppressed” by being uncovered outdoors, or getting behind the wheel of a car. And now, having seen Islam work such wonders in their home countries, Muslims are busy migrating to non-Muslim areas, so that their new homelands can become just as marvellous as their original ones.

      Not quite sure the person whose spirit you claim to represent would admire Islam quite as much though. In Arabic “Abeed” means slave, and is often used as a term towards black people, who are still today taken as slaves by Arabs in places like Sudan and Mauritania – two other places where Islam has worked so marvellously well!

    • I think you deliberately misinterpret Geerd Wilders words.
      What you say: ” strong autocratic leader, sadly does often lead to acts of aggression against minorities” is true, but Geert Wilders did not point that as reason to his claim that Islam is the the largest threat to mankind in this present age.
      It is you and only you make this connection, and that way it is not a ground of discussion.
      Islam is a threat because it is a fascistic ideology that defines its goal: force the world to obey the predefined leader, denies every persons right to his/her own belief or no belief at all, and uses lethal violence to achieve this goal.
      Is that a threat enough, Mr. NM?

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  10. I remember reading somewhere shortly after his election as pope that muslims who were familiar with Cardinal Francis (or whatever his name was before becoming pope) were quite pleased with his selection. Seems as though they knew him better than the College of Cardinals.

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  12. Please, Mister Pope, if you ever reply, quote some of the violent Biblical lines.

    Mr Wilders,

    If I may quote a part of your last sentence: “the largest threat to mankind in this present age”, do you think heaving your neck snapped by a muslim is a threat?

    What to think of man’s greed, that makes us utterly incapable of dealing with the harm we inflict upon the very grounds from which we eat? The waters from which we drink. The air we breathe?

    The contemporary threat, Mr. Wilders, lies not in conflict between people. It lies in the distraction that people such as yourself inflict upon the masses. It lies in the fact that we as mankind cannot see what we are heading to, because we’d rather be entertained by clowns.

    If I have reacted to your feeble attack upon a vague, and diverse group of people, it is because I believe that even tonight, there is something left to fight for.

    Let’s just hold hands and look forward.

    Gilles

    • Not necessary Gilles,
      In the Middle East the Christians and Jews are treated as enemies or lesser humans anyway.
      Violent passages in the Bible don’t matter to them.

    • I have to agree on the rest of your statement though.
      Only problem is, how do we get people so far to respect each other worldwide, so we can work on a better and survivable future?
      Basically this would mean for every human to outgrow humanity, in simple words, evolve (in a Darwinistic way)

    • Islam is a ‘clear and present danger’ whilst ground and air and water are intangible risks at best, your message is not very clear and holding hands doesn’t count for much much when the missiles rain down on us here in Sderot, get real!

    • If my neck were to be snapped…

      …the most likely assailant would probably be a feral yoot. His name could easily be Hakim or Jalaijahwon…

      The second most likely assailant would be White Methhead looking for a few bucks and his next hit.

      An Arab is of course low on the list. However, I don’t want to add to the possible matrices of threat. It’s already enough avoiding the wrong sort already.

    • In his remark to “Mr. Pope”, Mr. Havik waltzes into a trap of his own making. Here are some earlier notes of mine that refute the implication of Mr. Havik that calls for violence in the Bible and the Koran are comparable:
      The acts/orders of the Hebrew/Jewish God, although admittedly similar to that of Muslim attacks, are extremely limited in scope, and were clearly intended to apply only to a (Compared to Islamic-ruled areas) tiny piece of property (Israel) and not at all to any expansion, let along worldwide dominance. While Moses certainly directed his people to engage in violent acts, they never were nor did they ever come to be (Except for a very limited scale some time later under David and Solomon) used against peoples who lived beyond the Hebrew/Jewish horizon. Moses never uttered a single phrase along the lines of “I was ordered to fight all men until they say “Elohim is God and Moses is his prophet”. Slave-taking from peoples conquered by Jews under Moses was an incredibly rare event compared to the routine taking of slaves by Mohammed. No one was forced to convert to Judaism (Indeed if the Jews were at fault here it was due to keeping God’s word for themselves and not sharing it). If the references to war, slave-taking, etc. in the Koran and Haddiths were to be counted against those of Moses, those of the latter would be like specks of dust. On top of all this is the fact that, as far as taking over other peoples and their land, the example of Moses was not to be followed and/or copied after his death. By this simple fact the entire point of Mr. Haviks point is discredited.

      • “The acts/orders of the Hebrew/Jewish God, although admittedly similar to that of Muslim attacks, are extremely limited in scope, and were clearly intended to apply only to a (Compared to Islamic-ruled areas) tiny piece of property (Israel) ”

        I’m opposed to almost all religion. But even an atheist can see that islam is objectively bad (without any consideration of what concept of “god” is evoked by different religions).

        I see the situation between islam and judaism as chalk and cheese. By the time Mohammed invented islam the literal interpretation of the Bronze Age values of the bible had been reformed/ameliorated by rabbinical judgements for 2000 years. THAT is one of the reasons muslims give for the superiority of islam — they claim that islam is a rejection of such moderation/interpretation (muslims like to quote the incident where a rabbi concealed with his hand the part of the bible where it said that an adulteress must be stoned to death).

        Islam is a rejection of ALL and ANY reformation of those Bronze Age values (reformation contained in judaism and christianity). Islam is a return to the Bronze Age. That is why islam is so savage and barbaric and backwards. Compare islam with christianity and buddhism — it is the latest of those 3 religions, but also the most barbaric (so barbaric, islam does not even fit with the direction taken by buddhism 2500 year ago, and christianity 2000 years ago – when one considers what the concept of “religion” is, islam cannot be contained in the same category as christianity or buddhism).

        Islam CANNOT be reformed, because the creation of islam was in itself a rejection of the very idea that these Bronze Age values can be reformed.

    • Quote:
      What to think of man’s greed, that makes us utterly incapable of dealing with the harm we inflict upon the very grounds from which we eat? The waters from which we drink. The air we breathe?
      end

      Sounds like humanity is a real downer, Gilles. Since you are so averse to your own species, why don’t you submit to the Ummah and get it over already.
      You’ll live under divine law, in a constant state of perfection, and never again will you have to think for yourself in that ugly, human way.
      JUST holding hands and looking forward is what Islam is all about.
      But heaven forbid you should think anything.

    • Mr Havik,

      “What to think of man’s greed, that makes us utterly incapable of dealing with the harm we inflict upon the very grounds from which we eat? The waters from which we drink. The air we breathe?”

      And in what ways is this “greed” different from the greed of centuries gone by? Were the Dark Satanic Mills of the 1800s that Parry wrote about in “Jerusalem”, not inflicting harm upon the very ground from which we eat? Was Dickensian London not doing this, or any other city or settlement from centuries gone by? Yet somehow, the world survived, for all these centuries and millenia until now. And even now, the environmentalists have stopped using the word “global warming”, preferring “climate change” (as if the climate’s never been changing). For good reason – with freak storms bringing abnormally low temperatures to both the US and Northern Europe – and ever colder winters in my part of Europe. In any case, even if there was a man-made global warming, all it would take is one eruption of a big volcano to negate its effects, and bring “climate change” of an even greater magnitude. But keep on believing… The corrupt leaders of third world countries are waiting to collect your tax Euros, in the form of “aid” money. And China and India are waiting to capture even more of your country’s manufacturing base – thanks to “anti-climate change” measures, at which they surely only laugh.

      As for your last line – “Let’s just hold hands and look forward.”, it reminds me of a scene from the film Independence Day where, faced with an attack by aliens, a group of hippies wanting to make peace goes out to try to meet those aliens – only to be wiped out…

      Currently we’re not faced with an alien invasion, but a very real one – by an ideology which has written out its goals clearly for us to read. Just like over 80 years ago, Adolf Hitler did in Mein Kampf – a book which Wilders, Churchill and others compared to the Koran. Yet Hitler and his book were ignored, until it was too late. Are we to do the same, in spite of the overwhelming historical evidence, with the current threat from the so-called “Religion of Peace”, intended by its founder to one day rule the world? Do we really want, or need, history to be repeated – only this time, without strong allies to save us and beat back the invaders?

    • You are wrong on so many points, that the little you are right about is loses its meaning.
      “Please, Mister Pope, if you ever reply, quote some of the violent Biblical lines.”
      The Bible does not demand to every Jew or Christian to kill anybody of an other faith. Judaism is not missionating at all, Christianity abandoned violence as means some 500 years ago. Your paralleling the Koran and the Bible [appears somewhat childish].

      “The contemporary threat, Mr. Wilders, lies not in conflict between people”
      Geert Wilders did not mention conflict between people. He pointed out Islam as a threat, because it is a medieval, fascistic ideology, that denies every persons basic rights. Even your right to speak for the environment – there you do have a point, that it has to be discussed. Countries ruled by Islamic ideology do not give [an anatomical feature of a rodent] for environment, and no discussions are conducted either.
      To feed and shelter 7 billion people needs technology, which unfortunately does harm the nature. Of course we could let 3-4 billion die, and problem solved – as many environmentalist think. The problem is to choose whom to kill?
      That will be solved by Islam, right?

  13. Islam and christianity are opposites.
    Christianity is about ‘turn the other cheek’.
    Islam is about ‘an eye for an eye’.
    Muhammed fought battles all his life and killed hundreds with his own hands.
    Jesus never killed.

  14. Pingback: Lettre ouverte à sa Sainteté le Pape François | Gates of Vienna

  15. The Pope’s mistake begins with apologizing for persecution of the Jews anyway. Two reasons:

    1. It’s self abasement.

    2. Apologizing only provokes scorn.

    3. It’s too much of a generalization.

    It also opens up the possibility for Muslims to join in as co-victims of nasty nasty Europeans. Enough already! If we are so awful there is always Africa or Asia and that 3/5s of the earth’s landmass to go build your Utopias.

  16. Dear Mr. Wilders,

    You speak the absolute thruth about the islam,its the greatest threat for freedom and democracy in the western world!
    Keep up the good work!

  17. You can’t expect a ‘proper’ reading of the koran from any of the leaders of the established churches. They can’t even read the Holy Bible properly.
    The Catholic, Anglican, Methodist, Episcopalian churches have all thrown over Jesus Christ for John Lennon (and V.I. Lenin).
    The Christian faith no longer exists in any of the established churches. I love the Anglican church, it’s buildings, it’s rituals, those beautiful hymns, but I can’t bring myself to set foot in my local church, its teachings are the exact OPPOSITE of Christianity. When I think of all of the people who have suffered and died, ARE suffering and dying for the word of God these people who can’t stand up to the politically correct establishment and the attack dogs of the media I feel sick to the pit of my stomach.
    And the refusal to utter ONE WORD of condemnation, or even criticism, against the GENOCIDE of Christians in the middle east is a stain of shame on the established churches every bit as bad as those who assisted the nazis in their rounding up and murdering of the Jews.
    Don’t waste your breath Geert, they are beyond redemption.
    By the way, Have you ever noticed how the first four letters of V.I. Lenine spell VILE?

    • Oorzaak en gevolg is geschiedenis. Het ware geloof kent geen machtsmisbruik. De uitwassen bepalen de geschiedenis echter. En of een misbruiker zich verstopt achter een ideologie of een geloof, het blijft misbruik. Het doorzien van machtsmisbruikers is in de geschiedenis mislukt. De geschiedenis kan niet worden weerlegd, dit door bewijs. Hoe haat ontstaat en dit doorzien en voorkomen is de nieuwe geschiedenis.
      Je verenigen met de waarheid maakt verzet zinloos. Een excuus van de kerk zou kunnen, voor degene die dit wil. Als het betekent een excuus voor de Spaanse bezetting van Holland, heeft dit excuus voor mij geen betekenis.

      [machine translation: Cause and effect is history. True faith does not abuse. However. Excesses determine the history And whether an abuser hiding behind an ideology or a belief, it remains abuse. Seeing through power abusers failed in history. History can not be refuted by the evidence. How hatred arises and this see through and prevent the new history.
      You agree to the truth makes resistance futile. An apology from the church could, for the one who wants to. If it means an excuse for the Spanish occupation of Holland, this excuse for me has no meaning.]

  18. It’s nice to see some variety of commentary here at Gates of Vienna, with the participation of individuals, such as “Paul Wilders”, “NM”, and “Gilles Havik”, individuals so thoroughly besotted and corrupted by PC MC I would be surprised they can lace their shoes every morning, let alone type on a keyboard.

    • If this “Paul Wilders” is the brother of Geert, then presumably he is just trying to save his own skin. He is so phobic about islam, that he thinks “the religion of peace” will kill him for what his brother says. The Sira is full of examples of people who converted to islam out of fear of the consequences of resisting islam.

  19. Ultimately, debates about islam are always about the prophet Muhammad. We all know about the human rights violations, war crimes and atrocities he committed. Or do we? “Authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence.” Authentic islam then, must reject and condemn the actions of the prophet Muhammad.

  20. Pingback: Geert Wilders PVV alvast in de Kerststemming « Debat in de Digitale Hofstad

  21. Geert is not interested in overcoming differences. He keeps his relevance by exaggerating differences.

    Mandela was trying to overcome differences.

    RIP Mandela. Geert relax dude!

    • This is nonsense on stilts. Why should any European be interested in “overcoming our differences”? The relationship between Christendom and Islam was far better in the 18th, 19th and half of 20th century when we were very conscious of those differences that Kipling expressed as “East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet .” If the crypto-commies and their useful idiots one of whom you seem to be did not bring the East to the West, there would have been no need to “overcome” anything.

      Westerners, myself included, liked the strangeness of the Islamic world and those with a more adventurous spirit enjoyed visiting there. Muslims too visited in our domain with no ill consequences to ourselves, whether they were the Aga Khan blowing millions on horses, casinos and women, or Sayyid Qutb watching gloomingly frisky Colorado youths slow-dancing in Colorado in 1950. Even Qutb, the founder of Muslim Brotherhood, would not dream of blowing up anything or raping a daughter of his host nation. He took his bile back to Egypt.

      You are just as wrong about Mandela. He was a fairly decent man as far as communists and Muslim terorism supporters go but he was not interested in overcoming any differences. What he was interested in was getting South African Whites to renounce their power. He achieved that.

      • In the dignity of their humanity, all people are alike.
        In the profundity of their differences, all people are immersed.
        Ignore the qualities of these differences at your peril.
        As a Christian, I say that Islam is profane.
        I give no insult, because I know good and well that Muslims have been cursing my religion from the time theirs was founded.
        Only if I recognize this reality can the world even begin to be fair.

      • Quote:
        What he was interested in was getting South African Whites to renounce their power. He achieved that.
        end

        Two sentences, essential truth.
        Too bad I don’t hear it in the MSM.

      • “Even Qutb, the founder of Muslim Brotherhood, would not dream of blowing up anything or raping a daughter of his host nation. ”

        Only because he knew the time was not ripe.

  22. Pingback: A Work in Progress | Gates of Vienna

  23. Why the Pope would want to reverse 1300 years of Church teaching about Islam- which Christianity has always considered as a fraud and a deception and looked on Mohammad as one of the Great Divisive Figures of History- [Dante even has him disembowelled [divided] in the Inferno) and start to lie about the Koran’s contents is puzzling.

    I take it as as common example in modern “thinking”- where those WHO HAVE NOT BOTHERED TO READ THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENT feel that they can comment on it with blithe authority.

    All this does is reveal the Pope to be an intellectual lightweight, and dishonest to boot.

    Not a good Sign for Catholicism.

    Read your Dante, skip your Francis.

    • “[Dante even has him disembowelled [divided] in the Inferno) ”

      More specifically, Dante had Mohammed literally dividing himself over and over again, for eternity, by ripping his own chest apart from his neck down to his rectum.

  24. Geert Wilders takes a few lines from the Quran to make a case against Islam.
    If we take only a few moments to study the context of three of these verses we see a bigger and different picture. Only the blind and the unwilling will not see that Wilders’ choice of verses comes from a dangerously prejudiced mind.
    Take a look at the other verses for yourself. These three should be enough to stress my point.
    Happy reading :-)

    Surah 2 is -among other topics- about how to deal with the people who became part of the Muslim community but behaved hypocritical and formed a threat within the community because they broke pledges and had connections with enemies.
    2:190-193 Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.

    Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.

    4:
    (This Surah also deals with the case of Bani Nadir who were showing a hostile and menacing attitude, in spite of the peace treaties they had made with the Muslims. They were openly siding with the enemies of Islam and hatching plots against the Holy Prophet and the Muslim Community even at Al-Madinah itself. They were taken to task for their inimical behavior and given a final warning to change their attitude, and were at last exiled from Al-Madinah on account of their misconduct.)
    4:89 They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.4:9 Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.

    Surah 5
    This surah is about Commandments and instructions about the religious, cultural and political life of the Muslims.
    Definite rules and regulations have been laid down for what is lawful and unlawful in the matter of food, and self-imposed foolish restrictions of the pre-Islamic age have been abolished. Permission has been given to. take food with the people of the Book (Jews and Christians) and to marry their women. … Punishment for rebellion, disturbance of peace and theft have been specified. Drinking and gambling have absolutely been made unlawful. Expiation for the breaking of oath has been laid down and a few more things have been added to the law of evidence.

    A certain part of the Jews had broken treaties with Muslims and betrayed them in order to benefit from Mohammeds enemies. Therefor measures had to be taken against these transgressors in order to maintain the stability of the Muslim community.

    5:33-34
    Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment, 34 Except for those who return [repenting] before you apprehend them. And know that Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

    Surah 8
    This part is about the tribe of the Quraish, who tried to kill Mohammed because of His increasing influence, which they percieved as an economic threat. They threatened to kill the people of Medinah who accepted Mohammed. Mohammed prepared the Muslims for a battle out of selfdefense,and said to the Muslims:
    8:60-61
    And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.
    61
    And if they incline to peace, then incline to it [also] and rely upon Allah . Indeed, it is He who is the Hearing, the Knowing.

    • Surah 2 and 8 are over-ridden by Surah 5 and 9 (these 2 chapters of violence and apartheid were practically the last words to come from Mohammed).

      Surah 8 and 2 were written in Medina, when Mohammed had fled from Mecca (where the pagans had put up with his blasphemy and insurrection for 15 years). Mohammed was seeking to curry favour with the jews of Medina, so lied and presented himself as a man of tolerance and diversity.

      All this is clear when people look at the koranic verses in chronological order.

      http://4freedoms.com/group/theology/forum/topics/the-koran-verses-in-chronological-order

    • Nice MH, those first few surah’s. Are you going to explain the word Abbrogation now too? Because -that- reveals the dark truth, and you know it.

      • tr.v. ab·ro·gat·ed, ab·ro·gat·ing, ab·ro·gates
        To abolish, do away with, or annul, especially by authority.

        Sorry, I don’t get your point. Please explain.

        • I’ll jump in here with some relevant information:

          The Doctrine of Abrogation

          At the very pinnacle of Islamic law is the Koran, which is the uncreated word of God as revealed through his Prophet.

          So what is abrogation?

          This is what Imran Ahsan Khan Nyazee has to say about abrogation in Islamic Jurisprudence:

          The law was laid down in the period of the Prophet (peace be unto him) gradually and in stages. The aim was to bring a society steeped in immorality to observe the highest standards of morality. This could not be done abruptly. It was done in stages, and doing so necessitated repeal and abrogation of certain laws.

          As you can see, Nyazee acknowledges that the Koran contradicts itself. Upon discovering this fact, someone who knows little about Islam might say, “The Koran contradicts itself. Doesn’t this mean it’s broken?” But anyone who takes the time to look into the scholarship will learn that is well understood in Islam that the Koran contradicts itself. This fact is explained, and taken into account. There are methods for dealing with it.

          This becomes significant when non-Muslims approach a Muslim cultural expert or “moderate” to ask about certain verses of the Koran that are cited by radicals to justify their violent jihad. The cultural expert or “moderate” will respond with something like this: “You (infidel) must read from the entire body of the Koran to understand the true meaning. Those radicals cherry-pick from the back of the Koran.

          With this reply the cultural expert gives the impression that he does not agree with the radicals, but he never actually says that what they cherry-pick is wrong.

          So what is the Koranic basis for the doctrine of abrogation?

          It is a Qur’an which We have divided into parts from time to time, in order that thou mightest recite it to men at intervals: We have Revealed it by stages. (Qur’an 17:106)

          Concerning this verse, the Qur’an commentator Yusuf Ali says:

          The marvel is that these parts, revealed at different times and in different circumstances, should fit together so closely and consistently as they do. All revelation is progressive. The previous revelations were also progressive. Each of them marked a stage in the world’s spiritual history. Man’s mind does not take in more than his spiritual state will have prepared him for. Allah’s revelation comes as a light to illuminate our difficulties and show us the way in actual situations that arise.

          I sometimes run into very committed Christians who say, “We have progressive revelation in Christianity, too.” And my answer is: “There is a pillar, go run your head into it!” When talking about Islamic concepts of progressive revelation, it is totally unprofessional to refer to Christian notions of progressive revelation.

          Here is another verse covering the same subject:

          When We substitute one revelation for another – and Allah knows best what He reveals in stages — They say, “Thou art but a forger”: But most of them understand not. (Qur’an 16:101)

          And once again, a comment by Yusuf Ali:

          The doctrine of progressive revelation from age to age and time to time does not mean that Allah’s fundamental Law changes. It is not fair to charge a Prophet of Allah with forgery because the Message, as revealed to him, is in a different form from that revealed before, when the core of the Truth is the same, for it comes from Allah.

          Imagine that you are in 7th-century Arabia. Muhammad is receiving a revelation, and it contradicts something from an earlier revelation. Someone in the crowd stands up and says, “Dammit, Muhammad, you are making this stuff up. You are just making it up!” This causes a lot of controversy, and Muhammad then has another revelation — remember, he got them over a twenty-year period — in which Allah reveals that when he substitutes one revelation for another, he knows best what he does in stages. So how dare you accuse Muhammad of making this stuff up? You do not understand!

          The final Koranic verse on progressive revelation:

          None of Our revelations do we abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but we substitute something better or similar; knowest thou not that Allah hath power over all things? (Qur’an 2:106)

          Thus we have three different citations from the Koran in which Allah says he reveals things in stages, and that with each stage he abrogates the previous stages. We would expect — because it is the uncreated word of Allah — that what was said later would overrule what was said earlier. And any Islamic law which did not reflect this fact would be suspect.

          That means that if the radicals are cherry-picking chronologically from the back of the Koran, they are correct.

          ——-

          1 Imran Asham Khan Nyazee, Islamic Jurisprudence, (Kuala Lumpur: The Other Press, 2003), 319. Cited hereafter as Nyazee, Jurisprudence.
          2 Yusuf Ali, Qur’an, Comment 2317.
          3 Yusuf Ali, Qur’an, Comment 2140.

        • As for how Abrogation works in practice, here’s an example – from the last years of Muhammad himself:

          624 AD The Nakhla raid
          624 AD The Battle of Badr
          624 AD Exile of the Jewish Qaynuqa
          625 AD The Battle of Uhud
          625 AD Siege and exile of the Jewish Nadir
          627 AD The Battle of the Trench
          627 AD The Genocide of the Jewish Qurayza
          628 AD The Treaty of Hudaybiyya
          628 AD The conquest of Khaybar
          628 AD Poisoned at Khaybar
          630 AD The conquest of Mecca
          630 AD Muhammad rules Arabia
          631 AD All Arabians submit to Islam
          631 AD The Tabuk raid
          632 AD The Farewell pilgrimage
          632 AD Death of Muhammad

          So, which “Koranic verses” was Muhammad folowing in his later life? It sure doesn’t look like he was following those “peaceful” ones you cited, does it??

          • Interesting stuff, thanks. I don’t think that the events you mentioned are examples of so called abrogations or even deviations from earlier laws but i’d have to dive into the history of the cicumstances of these events. I don’t think it’ s right to use 7th century events and verses or traditions related to these events to justify destructrive behaviour. But they do, I know. That doesn’t mean the religion stinks, but the followers just make a mess of it.

    • So if the koran is so full of ‘peace’ why does my house have a bomb shelter paid for by the government?

      Either you are lying through your back teeth or those rockets they fire at us are toys made by Testes.

      Look out of the window and see the murder and mayhem that is being done in the name of Mo and his ventriloquist’s dummy allah. Then try and tell me that Islam is a religion of ‘peace’.

      • MC unfortunately these violent fanatics – btw a relatively small group, compared with the many peaceloving ones- call themselves Muslims. From their actions it is clear that they do not know the first thing, let alone the meaning of their holy book, probably because they don’t even read it, but are brainwashed by the powers that be or are taught to take a few lines out of context to “justify” their actions. They are a serious problem for Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

        • If there’s so many peace-loving Muslims, then why did the “small number” of Islamic fanatics win landslide victories, in elections in Gaza, Egypt, Turkey and other countries? And why is it that in other “moderate” places, Muslim women are LEGALLY not alowed to marry non-Muslim men? such laws, in Europe or in the USA, are more extreme than anything the “far right” (be it the BNP, Front Nationale or Geert wilders) is proposing!

        • ” taught to take a few lines out of context to “justify” their actions.”

          What is the “context” of the koran? The context is the life of mohammed. And it is clear from muslim’s own accounts of Mohammed’s life, that he was a genocidal murderer. a torturer, a killer of children, an assassin of critics.

          Any muslim who denies that this is the Mohammed portrayed in Ibn Ishaq, Ibn Hisham, Tabari, etc. is a liar. That muslim is taking the koran out of context, never mind any verse of the koran.

  25. Pingback: Offener Brief von Wilders an Papst Franziskus: “Wir müssen die Wahrheit sagen über den Islam” | Gates of Vienna

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  27. While Rome burnt, Nero fiddled, and while Christians were slaughtered, by muslims, this Pope snogged the feet of a muslima:

    http://littlenotesfromparis.blogspot.com.au/2013/03/pope-snogs-young-muslimas-feet.html

    Digging a little deeper, one might find quite a few similarities between Nero and Franz…hmmmm and speaking of Nero who is said to have poisoned his step-brother and while I am indulging myself in “comparaisons”:

    Is Paul Wilders the Cain to Geert Wilders’s Abel?

    And lastly, but mostly:

    THANK YOU GEERT WILDERS, it seems to me that in You, the persecuted Christians have a better friend than in the one who presently parks his derriere on St. Peter’s chair, and I just know that YOU would have helped the little Anne Frank.

  28. Pingback: Open brief van Geert Wilders aan de paus | Golfbrekers

  29. Pingback: Open brief van Wilders aan paus Franciscus: “We moeten de waarheid zeggen over de islam” | E.J. Bron

  30. The exhortation also contains a sharp condemnation of the terrible persecutions which the Jews have endured from Christians in the past.

    This is part of the constant portrayal of white Christians as persecutors and Jews as blameless victims, i.e. anti-semitism as expression of unprovoked malevolence. Muslims have taken the concept of anti-semitism and turned it into Islamophobia, i.e. unprovoked malevolence towards blameless Muslims. Note Jews survived the Christian centuries and sometimes even flourished. I’m not sure the reverse would have been true. The intolerance and violence of Christianity and Islam have their roots in the religion that gave birth to both. Unlike paganism, that religion wasn’t tolerant of religious diversity:

    25:6 And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation of the children of Israel, who were weeping before the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 25:7 And when Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand; 25:8 And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel. 25:9 And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.

    http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/num/25.html#6

    • You are right and you are wrong. Yes, the fanaticism of Judaism certainly colored Christianity’s and Islam’s orientation too, but your attribution of violence holds no water. First of all, the “violent” parts of the Old Testament all pertain to a period of 3300 – 3000 years ago [Exodus to King David], when all of the humanity we know something about was as violent as the Israelites were, if not much more, plus all engaged, universally, in human sacrifice which the Israelites, uniquely, did not practice.

      Second, Islam’s violence, far greater than the Christian one, must have sprung from the savage desert culture where it originated. So when people excuse 21st century jihadis blowing up innocent women and children because “the Biblical Jews did it too,” they are skipping thoughtlessly over the 3000-year distance between the two. The Jews, the Christians, have “progressed” since then. Have the Muslims?

      You are wrong also in trying to downplay past Christian violence against the Jews. Certainly there must have been Jews who aroused the justified ire of the surrounding populations through the practice of usury, engaging in the work of tax collecting, maintaining a zealous separatism, belittling the Christian God etc. But that did not justify killing hundreds of thousands of Jews indiscriminately, as happened during the crusades, nor the tens of thousands and thousands as happened in later progroms in Germany, Russia, Ukraine etc.

      Moreover, in saying that “Jews survived the Christian centuries” you are skimming over an important counter-indicator, for not quite. Reading the work of Jon Entine and the genetic research adduced there will show you that by the Middle Ages the wholesale slaughter of Jews had reduced their population in Europe to a few thousand, from the 7 million or so they were during the Roman Empire. This drastically reduced genetic pool gave rise to both stunted physical attributes (e.g. height) and a host of Jewish-specific genetic impairments like Tay-Sachs of the Jewish generations that followed.

      Lastly, there is no need at all to try to sweep all that under the carpet, as there is no need to deny the Holocaust, belittle the sin of American slavery, etc.. It happened. We are sorry. It’s not our fault. It’s not a good enough reason to allow the muticulti-socialist European Union or a Black Marxist America-hater in the White House to destroy us now. It does not justify our lying, our conspiracy of silence, about the ravages wrought on us by the Black, Brown and Muslim among us, or the tunneling under us by George Soros Jewish types. It does not condone our living in a climate of constant self-flagellation and submission to the savage, primitive, coarse and brutal.

      • You are wrong also in trying to downplay past Christian violence against the Jews.

        I am not trying to downplay it: the violence was bad. So was the violence in Russia after the anti-Christian communists took over. I have been told by an Israeli that Christians spent 2,000 years trying to exterminate Jews. I asked her how Jews managed to survive at all, given that Christians had overwhelming military superiority for so long. She had no answer and simply repeated her fatuous claim. That’s what addiction to being a victim does for the intellect. My point is that victims are not always blameless and persecutors not always mindlessly malevolent. Here the former Chief Rabbi of Britain explaining how Muslims have followed the example set by Jews:

        Britain’s top rabbi warns against multiculturalism

        [Jonathan] Sacks said Britain’s politics had been poisoned by the rise of identity politics, as minorities and aggrieved groups jockeyed first for rights, then for special treatment. The process, he said, began with Jews, before being taken up by blacks, women and gays. He said the effect had been “inexorably divisive.”

        “A culture of victimhood sets group against group, each claiming that its pain, injury, oppression, humiliation is greater than that of others,” he said. In an interview with the Times, Sacks said he wanted his book to be “politically incorrect in the highest order.”

        Britain’s top rabbi warns against multiculturalism

        That is an honest description of what has happened.

  31. I am a longtime reader here currently visiting Amsterdam and would love to meet geert, even if just for a picture or autograph. Does anyone know if there are any open meets/greets, or book signings? I couldn’t find anything on his site as I do not believe a book tour is going on.

  32. Pingback: Open brief van Wilders aan paus Franciscus: “We moeten de waarheid zeggen over de islam” | Gates of Vienna

  33. It appears to me that as usual, Mr Wilders has hit the nail very firmly on the head. I have had grave concerns for some time about the direction that the Catholic Church is taking with regard to islam. They seem to have capitulated and abandoned many Christians, living in the muslim world, to a horrible fate with no one on the world stage doing anything to protect them. I just wonder where this will all end; not very well, in my view, for one side or the other. I just hope that we in the West finally realise that islam is at war with us regardless of whether we think we are at war with them. Once we recognise them for the enemy they certainly are, then perhaps we will begin to defend ourselves and our way of life. Again in my opinion there are two things that muslims are incapable of; namely, compassion and forgiveness. Until they begin to convert, en masse, to Christianity they will never advance on a spiritual level, and will remain the enemy of all normal, civilised peoples.

  34. Pingback: Carta aberta à Sua Santidade o Papa Francisco | Gates of Vienna

  35. Pingback: Wilders an Papst Franziskus: “Wir müssen die Wahrheit sagen über den Islam”! | kopten ohne grenzen

  36. Pingback: Wilders’ Open Letter to Pope Francis’ Criticizes Church Myopia on Islamic Antisemitism | Dr. Rich Swier

  37. Pingback: Open letter to his Holiness Pope Francis, by Geert Wilders | ACT! for Canada

  38. Pingback: Geert Wilders’ open letter to Pope Francis « Right Ring

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  40. Pingback: Memo to Geert Wilders Concerning “Open Letter to His Holiness Pope Francis” | Gates of Vienna

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  42. Pingback: More whitewashing of the truth | The Universal Spectator

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  45. Pingback: Wilders to Pope Francis: Contrasts Papal Ecumenism, With Jew/Infidel-Hatred of Current Sunni Pope Al-Tayeb | The Counter Jihad Report

  46. I’m muslim. I love everyone, doesn’t matter if you’re Jew, Christian, Muslim, Boeddhist or atheïst. So, I’m a bad person if all this was right? He speaks out for the christians in syria, iraq and libanon, but what about the palestanians? Don’t they have the right to live? Ow, they are muslim, so they can’t have food, water and electricity. Pal, you’re seeing thing wrong, we should live together, not against eachother.

    • Stop being statistically over-represented in crime, primitive culture, low intelligence, barbaric acts and then we can talk. Of course, I’m talking about in countries, I have no problem what you do in your own land, the earth belongs to everyone. Specific and seperate countries, however, do not.

      You’re absolutely right about the Palestinians, although, from all the evidence, it seems the Palestinian Muslims don’t want to live with the Israeli Jews, rather than the opposite. I wouldn’t either if I was in their shoes, just saying it’s hypocritical to say you want everyone to live together and support the Palestinians at the same time.

    • Hejhej – you are surely well intentioned in your remarks about the Palestinians. However in spite of the massive international aid they receive many Palestinians still suffer from shortages of food, medical supplies etc. because the P.A spend the money given to them on armaments. They care not one jot for the suffering of the people but instead prefer to lay the blame elsewhere. Peace is not a pre-requisite of the P.A. It is the dogs of war that run the state that cause the suffering of the Palestinians.

    • “I’m muslim. I love everyone, doesn’t matter if you’re Jew, Christian, Muslim, Boeddhist or atheïst”
      Then you are NOT a Muslim, since you don’t follow your faiths instructions.
      While in Christianity you can choose to not obey everything in the Bible and have your own interpretation, you can even leave your religion if you want – you can not do it in Islam.
      Or you are a Muslim and practicing taqiyya? (Deceiving the infidels so they believe you are not a threat).
      “…but what about the palestanians? Don’t they have the right to live?”
      Ask the P.A. and Hamas. They killed far more “Palestinians” then Israel.
      “Ow, they are muslim, so they can’t have food, water and electricity”
      Now this is a blatant lie.
      Israel delivers over 20 000 tons of merchandise (food, gas, medicines) only to Gaza every week, mainly paid by Israeli taxpayers.
      On the West bank the UN pays every citizen over 12 000 US$ a year. Blame your own P.A. if those moneys not coming to the citizens benefit.

      But most importantly: all surveys made clear that 80 – 95 % the Arabs in Israel prefer to live in Israel, rather in any Arabic country, showing that something is wrong with your picture about the World.

  47. @Baron Bodissey on December 7, 2013 at 7:13 pm and others

    Thanks for elaborating my point. Now let’s see how MH is going to try to debunk the un-debunkable. Game-Set-Match.

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  52. Thanks be to Geert Wilders for his straight talking about Islam and its vile intentions of world domination. It has spread faster than a plague and unfortunately for us – our present day Governments seek to embrace this dangerous ideology and ignore the wishes of the people. Many Muslims are ignorant of the Koran and its satanic verses and are kept ignorant by the Mullahs, Imams et al.
    The Pope may be well intentioned but he surely needs to investigate the Koran and what it really instructs its followers to do.

  53. Pingback: Open Letter Pope Francis | Catholic4Life

  54. Pingback: ANDREW BOSTOM: GEERT WILDERS LETTER TO POPE FRANCIS- A CONTRAST OF PAPAL ECUMENISM WITH THE HATRED OF THE CURRENT SUNNI POPE **** | RUTHFULLY YOURS

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  58. Pingback: Interesting Message To the Pope from Geert Wilders

  59. Judas Priest, whatever in the hell have I been attempting to read, other than the ego trips of most of the writers who cannot believe that Geert Wilders has such support. So, blah, blah, blah,cannot simply believe that Geert has the support of most of Holland, and his brother, well, where did he come from and who is he and has he supported his brother in Geerts years in the wilderness. That tells me everything I need to know about his brother, or coward. Where is this great brother and who is he and what has he ever said except now? Coward. If he was a true brother, he would stand by his brother. Brothers can fight and disagree, but they should stand together, except for this late comer to the argument, who only hopes to cash on Geert\s fame. This is a brother who is not a brother, a coward who must be ignored.

    • Na de val vd berlijnse muur en daardoor de onzekerheid van de westerse wereld is er een nieuwe vijandsbeeld gecreeerd.t.w de agst t.av de islam en de moslims.Welnu t westen moet bereid zijn haar culturele, economische en politieke hegemonie niet alsvanzelfsprekend aan te nemen, maar op basis van gelijkwaardigheid van overige culturelen en geloofsovertuigingen te accepteren.De westersedominantie en t eurocentrentisch denken was ook immers gebaseerd op onze wetenschappelijk ,technisch ontwikkeling en onze christelijke opvatting dat we dichter bij god zijn en alszodanig t morele recht en plicht hadden om andere volkeren onze waarden en normen op te leggen.Welnu deze visie is nu mede door de opkomst van niet westerse economien en de bewust wording ook van de moslimwereld onder uitgehaald. Tegen deze achtergrond gepaard gaande met angst en onzekerheid wordt de irrationele haat en angst van uit t westen naar de islam geprojecteerd. Deze ontwikkeling is funest en leidt niet tot een vreedzame wereld , met een evenwichtige verdeling v goederen en diensten.Van politieke en geestelijke leiders mag in alle redelijkheid vewacht worden dat zij bereid zijn naar een eerlijke verdeling van politieke,economische en culturele macht met respect voor de menselijke waardigheid.Verwijzing naar de heilige boeken heeft geen zin.. immers er staan onderdrukkende als bevrijdende passages in. Leg de nadruk op vrede en t collectieve geluk en deze elementen is in elke cultuur en of godsdienst aanwezig.Polarisatie leidt tot onnodig geweld en misverstand en leidt tot barbarij in ons beschaafde wereld.E n dat willen we geen van allen.

      [machine translation: After the fall vd Berlin Wall , and thus the uncertainty of the Western world there is a new enemy image created . Namely the AGST t . av Islam and the Muslims . Well t west must be prepared not its cultural , economic and political hegemony like to believe, a matter of course but to accept . Based on equivalence of other cultural and religious beliefs Western dominance and t euro centering cal thinking was , after all, based on our scientific, technical development and our Christian belief that we are closer to God and as such t moral right and duty had to explain . Other peoples our values ​​and standards Now this view is also removed from the Muslim world . Partly due to the rise of non-Western economies and create awareness Against this background, accompanied by anxiety and uncertainty , the irrational hatred and fear of t projected from West to Islam . This development is destructive and does not lead to a peaceful world , with a balanced distribution v goods and services. Political and religious leaders should be expected to be completed enough that they are prepared for a fair distribution of political, economic and cultural power with respect for human dignity . Reference to the holy books does not make sense .. Indeed, there are oppressive and liberating passages . Put the emphasis on peace and t collective happiness and these elements in every culture and religion or present. Polarization leads to unnecessary violence and misunderstanding and leads to barbarism in our civilized world . A nd we want any of them.]

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